Discussion on:

Poll: Is stealing from Microsoft okay because they have lots of money?

I say no way, no how - there is no justification - buy the software like you are supposed to or use an alternative. But what do you say? Give us your best argument to justify the piracy of Windows or any software for that matter.

Waht would be the point of robbing them if they didn't have any?

At times Windows needs to get reloaded or new systems need to be setup. I don't always use the registered copy for those activites to save time -- especially when troubleshooting problems or testing various configuarations.

Eventually, I'll register the final version, but its not unusual for me to run for a few weeks before doing so.

Not only an unlicensed copy of XP for reloads, but a pirated copy of Office because the disk cracked. After installation, I change the key for XP to one I have available and paid for. I have to do the same thing with the Office. Change key to My Paid ver key.
So, those two are pirated buy I did pay for the software. Why would that be illegal?

They are not Pirates.

Col

What would be the point of robbing them if they didn't have any?

I need to ask, are you a Nac Mac Feegle?

Isn't he "Bigger Than Little Tony But Not As Big as Big Tony" Tony?

He plays the mousepipes then he's Tony the Gonnagle. Is your earwax melting?

though there are circumstances where it might be more right than say starving...


Stealing from people with less than you is stupid and dangerous. They are liable to do something a bit more permanent than demonise you in the media.

Agreed, but making a copy of a Windows install disk isn't stealing since you still need a valid Product Activation Code. The PAC determines whether the Windows installation is valid. The disk does not.

Now if it were easy to make that copy...

WGA takes care of that.
Until you activate it, it's at best a demo.

http://www.bityard.com/science-technology/Apple-and-piracy-A-match-made-in-heaven

They did a tut-tut finger waggle then turned a blind eye and focused on the market share figures. It only became important to quelch again after the obtained market dominance and could back to try and squeeze the unlicensed users.

Hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

I am Davidhood

I am just telling a one question can you answer me.

So. What is the DNS Server In Computer.

Thank You

David
Mortgage Calculator

not understand the answer.

By the way I didn't click on your link, report as spam cae first...

URLs (web sites) to IP addresses - an internal one does the same for important internal servers etc that have static IP addresses.

Domain names, DE! Not URLs.

But I'm sure you know that, and that you are just tired or something.

in how it works, what I gave was the simplified explanation of what it does so someone , who obviously doesn't have much of a technical background, can get a basic understanding of what it does for them.

DNS = Domain Name Server, -- but most people out there will wonder what the hell you're talking about when you say domain as it's not something most technically challenged people will understand, but just about everyone understands what a URL is and the URL does include the domain name as a key part of it.

And yes, I'm used to having to explain this sort of stuff to people with an IQ of 1 or less, used to have a lot to do with politicians in my misspent youth.

It's just that it is something I have to drill into people's heads regularly, so I tend to throw my qualified definition in, running the risk of being pedantic at someone who I am sure knows a lot more about IT than I do.

And yes, I'm used to having to explain this sort of stuff to people with an IQ of 1 or less, used to have a lot to do with politicians in my misspent youth.

Priceless.

edit: Oh, and hey, good to see you around.

with a high school English teacher who also has Asperger's - being pedantic is a way of life for me, but I've learnt how to simplify technical explanations for people by relating them to things they already know and understand.

Isn't it a fun way of life?

I've never been checked for or diagnosed with Asperger's, but I've got something , whatever it is.

My problem with DNS specifically is I have to keep telling people not to add a protocol or directory information when adding to domain filtering lists, or why they can't block just "the adult stuff/stuff I don't like" on YouTube, for example, when using domain blocking. In my case, it is critical that these people understand that they can filter only by domain, and what that means for them. And if that they need more flexible filtering, they additional software or services.

Which is why I tend to get all over DNS stuff like domains.

very simplistic view of the Internet. He had some monitoring and filtering software installed on the Internet proxy appliance in the gateway and he was the one who entered the sites to be blocked. The software allowed you to block at any level, so a URL of:

www.we.are.useless.rubbish.com

could be blocked at any of the dot points by placing a * in place of what was before that dot. Most rules would read like:

*.useless.rubbish.com

as that blocked http, https, ftp etc. for the domain useless.rubbish.com

Well, one day we found out he was entering the block info by exactly copying the example in the instruction file that came with the software. After some time, he read an article about you being able to block more by blocking at a higher domain level. You can imagine the issues created when he noticed something about all the porn sites etc and entered a block rule to block them all at the higher domain level. What he entered was:

*.com

It took a direct order from the Managing Director for him to passover control to the IT section and let US manage it after that debacle.

edit -- a little knowledge can be a very dangerous thing.

You are probably lucky he didn't try to block

.

if the appliance worked that way (and some do).

It's also probably a good thing he didn't find out about whitelisting, or you probably would have had an even crazier argument on your hands.

Ah, but the OP claims to be a "Computer Product Reseller (VAR, Retailer)." If so, you'd think he'd know what DNS stands for, and how it works, at least on a cursory level. If not, he could just be trolling.

more than the initials of things like DNS as those they deal know what it means.

Besides the legal implications of using unlicensed software there are other concerns.

- who packaged the software and is it infected? Truckloads of perfectly packages and sealed Windows boxes with a little extra something included have been stopped in Europe on way to market. This is true piracy to boot; not just some copyright infringing personal use.

- if one can't afford the software, that message should be delivered to the vendor through lost sales. MS turned a blind eye for years while the market share grew through copyright infringement. The market share is not a result of a good product but of a good distribution throughout the market. AutoCAD and Photoshop license costs are very high. These are three regularly unlicensed chunks of software. If he vendors saw declining sales and market share, they might be forced to focus more on product design and quality rather then increasing prices and blinky lights on the same old crap quality code. Alternative products that did deliver quality would have a chance at use because people would look for alternatives rather than simply skipping the licensing step.

- justification for more draconian DRM. We have software serial number keys because kids shared games back in the day. We have dial home checkups like Genuine Advantage now to. Ubisoft takes the cake with the DRM in Assassin's Creed; requires a network connection to a central server during the entire time its running and if you have a network hiccup, the game locks up. (As if my genuine Assassins Creed install is suddenly going to turn unlicensed during game play.) How about Adobe's DRM that writes data to your master boot record destroying any boot loaders beyond NTloader. Destroys my data, installs without permission; malware by any other name..

Rather than take a business hit and have to reconsider pricing structures and such, companies are simply using crap DRM schemes to punish paying customers. "I can't be bothered to worry about licenses right now" is simply used to justify continued overpricing supported by DRM instead of reconsidering what prices the market will bare.

There are plenty of open source options available. Besides, if you're a pyrate the dry cleaning bills are extremly high, parrots don't have very good control.

Same thinking here Ed. Linux is is free right? So why would anyone steal Microsoft if Linux is free and supposedly better? Right? In my my eyes stealing is what it is stealing whether its a pirated Microsoft software or a pair of shoes from the mall. If you do it your a thief either way. Wasn't stealing one of the things are parents taught us was bad when we were little?????

Nope, even more now that windows is better and cheaper than ever! although I wouldn't buy Office, OO suites me fine

I like to see those people that are greedy to the point that...

- They never EVER bought a single software, DVD or Game, but have dozens of CD cases and never go to the movies because then can see it home
- And when windows 7 came out, then went to download it. Now, being this a home user, then went for 7 Ultimate, 'cas it cool and sounds more hi-tech than home-premium. Oh well, ignorance....

I knew a guy who doesn't know how to program, but he had a pirated copy of Visual Studio. It makes no sense, maybe there's somekind of collector gene?

I think the collector gene is the cause. I know an individual with three hard drives and over 2 TB in his PC. He has pirated copies of just about every pay-for-license software out there.

He doesn't use a bit of it, but by darn, he has it!

Let's say I buy a computer and it has Windows 7. The computer is garbage and the manufacturer says I am not giving you a replacement. Buy a new computer. Should I be able to load Windows 7 that came with the original computer, which had the price for Windows 7 included?

is that the OEM version of Windows for that computer isn't even going to work on a different computer.

cut back version you got with the computer is likely to have been limited to run ONLY on the hardware the computer you got it on had, so it's unlikely to run on another computer unless you buy something with the same crappy hardware that went wrong to start with.

IMHO it's to stop people transfering the licence that got Microsoft to offer a bigger cut to Dell / HP / etc. if they did NOT supply disc copies of Windows with the computers, just the loaded cut back copy and the licence sticker with the number.

BTW If you have a licence number for Windows that you got with a Dell / HP / etc. and you load it on another system, Microsoft can tell when it's activated that it's not on the original equipment it was sold with as the licence codes identify the OEM supplier and they know general gear being used at the time of issue, if what you're activating is out of that list they get VERY sticky about authorising the activation - Microsoft doesn't like you transfering a licence.

do a system check, and won't even start the install process (which, so far, doesn't stop you from manually copying files off the CD, but to use them for an actual install would be rough). Code purple, etc.

..

As the files are usually laid out for an idiosyncratic install, plus, you'd need to have the right drivers.

I wouldn't work on this on the system you are trying to install on if it isn't currently working.

(I'm agreeing with you here.)

old HP box, the on-board graphics chip went, so we tried installing a PCI graphics card. No go, it took some time and enquiries, but we ended up having to locate and install a graphics card that used the same graphics chip as the on-board one because that was the only graphics driver on the system and on the system rebuild disc. After that, we downloaded and installed a driver for the first card bought as it was a much higher quality. Installed the driver and turned the system off. Rebooted with the better card, and wouldn't work. Even tried with both card installed - after a reboot we were back at the original driver as the marvellous Windows Wizard saw ANY graphics driver but the original supplied with the on-board system as a corrupt driver and killed it off and reinstated the one for the on-board graphics.

In the end I resolved the problem by format c: rebuilt with my copy of XP Pro with the high end card installed, and used a special little tool to change the serial number from mine to his post install but before activation. All worked well after that, for several months. Then his brother borrowed the system, got an infection and took it to a HP qualified shop to fix.

The official HP shop cleaned the infection by a format C: installed the image for that system, despite it obviously having a different video card - and guess what, it didn't work. It took a solicitor's letter of threatened legal action to get them to hand the box back without being paid for screwing it up, and I had to rebuild it again - from scratch.

The problem all resolved around the cut down version of XP supplied and no actual copy of the Windows CD at all. This guy knew enough to make a rebuild disc, but it was totally useless in this case.

But I had it easier, as I was just trying to pull only the video drivers off a disk for a similar HP system, not install the OS, which I already had retail copy for. Not easy to search the internet for drivers with no display.

I'm a bit surprised you had such a hard time, what with the way Australia views certain sections of the MS EULA, and probably anything the OEM has that is similar.

And in cases like yours, the hoops you have to jump through are positively ridiculous. As if you were attempting to do something of an infringing nature.

How many IT professionals does it take to repair a PC?

Just one.

But you need 100 lawyers to get Windows to run on it!

with a Cert III in IT and a HP Cert who only know the commands Format C: and Copy Image - shops full around the world.

The problem came about because the retail store follows the current process of Dell and HP of NOT providing non-volatile media with the sale. In some Australian states they no longer have to do that by law, in some they do, but the national retailers don't do it in those states either, as few of the clients know they have to.

The problem with this case was the HP system hard drive had a hidden logical drive section on it, as do all HP and Dell systems, and it runs diagnostic services every time you turn the system on. The files in the diagnostic services were looking for the hardware originally installed on the system and there was no way to change the information in that hidden section. The only way to fix it was to totally wipe the drive and do a clean install with a FULL copy of Win XP Pro from scratch after deleting all partitions, setting a new primary partition and formatting it. That I did with my XP Pro disc, then used a tool to change the serial number from mine to the one stuck on the side of the case - all OK, their system, their serial number, and it worked. Sadly, the idiot in the HP shop couldn't allow it to leave the shop without the original image and didn't know how to do anything but slap on the original image - but he wasn't an IT pro, just an idiot who pretended to be one.

Plenty of those around here. As a matter of fact, it's a bit of a business all its own. Geek Squad. (Geek, my @$$.)

I think that a proper long-term solution would be to buy a PC from DELL or HP without the OS then buy a full retail version of Windows and finally install that. So whenever one needs to re-install Windows, one can do it off the disk without having to make one of those Recovery disks. One could then also upgrade the hardware and install drivers as necessary.

The added advantage would be in selling/gifting the PC as you like without having to let go of Windows or one could throw in the retail version of Windows as well.

If you ever so much as type in the key on the sticker provided your install will fail and alert Microsoft.

Those keys will not work, not even on the original hardware. The Dell restore disks are keyed to specific hardware and will generate a key (random) after confirming with Dell and/or MS that the OS matches the authorized hardware.

The Dell stickers at least are a cruel joke. Might I go so far as to say "entrapment?"

are required to be on the machine by the EULA. Microsoft disabled these long ago after a lot of them were being resold to third parties. They can be (and will be) activated by a phone call to Microsoft in the event that you don't have original recovery software and have to use an unadulterated OEM install disc. Dell, HP, Fujitsu, Lenovo, and Toshiba will generally send you a copy of the reinstall media with drivers and other software for a nominal fee if you call and ask them for it if you don't want he hasles of calling Microsoft and then looking for all the drivers yourself.

I was working on a Dell Optiplex (still under warranty) and tried to get a new power supply for it. I called because the PC was rebooting at random intervals and wouldn't take the corporate image.

The Dell support tech I spoke with refused to assist me until I had the original Dell image on it, even though it came from Dell with the corporate image. They sent me the recovery discs, which wouldn't install either because (surprise!) the PC was rebooting at random intervals.

Dell eventually wound up replacing everything inside the case except the hard drive and CD-ROM drive.

I had an older compaq that I reinstalled using a non-OEM disk, and the key on the sticker. You are correct in that you'll be prompted to make a call, but in this case I was told I was SOL.

I don't know if I got a trainee on the phone or what. I asked to speak to a supervisor and was told to stuff it, the fellow assumed I was attempting to pirate the software and that was that.

So there is a weak link in the theory behind putting a sticker on the box; the the phone bank minions...

I was told by someone on the Tech Help Phone that I was pirating a Volume Licenser Product namely Windows XP Pro and Office 2003 because I told them I had it installed on 5 computers.

I don't think many actually listen to what they are told and just take a guess.

Col