Discussion on:

10 mistakes Linux newbies make

Bash or most any other *nix shell would be the equivalent to the Windows Powershell. The CoS method of buying your way into each new functionality does become foreign to us with *nix systems but we still add on onion layers even if we don't have to go out and pay for each one. At least we have something better than cmd.com when working on a Windows machine now.

feeshtank said he / she feels the Windows command prompt is limited. I pointed out the existence of PowerShell, in case he wasn't aware of it. Yes, this functionality should be present in the first place; since it isn't (kinda like working wireless support in some Linux distros), I suggested a possible solution to feeshtank's problem.

Why should you load PowerShell, JuliaX111? You shouldn't. But I wasn't replying to you in the first place.

Why Linux should be complicated????

I, too, have gone through about 4 Linux distros before finally saying "enough is enough!" We don't turn on our computers to be affectionate ("make love with?") our OS, we turn them on (Is that a pun?) to get work done. Be it "Windows," "Fedora," "Ubuntu" or "Leopard," I shouldn't have to read pages and pages of irrelevant "How this OS system works and what it's based on..." to learn how to minimize an open window with a keyboard shortcut.

I guess my biggest amazement is how hostile many Linux programmers are toward Windows in an almost personal way. Hey... it's a friggin' operating system, okay? It's "1"s and "0"s. I have no logical (operative word) reason to hate how my computer works, I just want it to work out of the box with minimal time wasted on the learning curve. Why? Maybe I can actually get some work done today without having to learn some new command line function to accomplish my task at hand.

What is it you devote your energy to for recreation? What is your hobby? Why is it not acceptable for other people to have different areas of interest?

I have been using home computers since Commodores. Have loaded Linux many times, currently trying to use Ubuntu. Am not stupid about things but can not fix things with the help on line / in forums. The command line is not a problem, the switches/ parameters are.
Present problem, making wi-fi work. Many help items out there. None make sense. Or need sudo or terminal but do not explain what or why. Or assume that everybody can do that.
Audio /USB devices same way, "Oh just GET some item and and it will work" No it doesn't, it needs to be loaded with the right parameters. How do I make sure it gets the right parameters? Oh just do a little command line stuff.
I like it when it works but still mighty difficult for a newbie to switch.

I know what you mean Steve. I felt exactly the same way. I have had and still have problems with various wireless cards. But then I rember the problems I had with windows 2000 and Orinoco/Lucent wireless cards. What really helped me to get to grips is I decided to set up a web site using OScomerce. Took me about 5 months and I enjoyed every head scratching bit of intrigue, exasperation, frustration and pride as well as gratitude at the patience, courtesy and can-do attitude of some on-line forum (various) regulars. A resource that really helped was Linuxformat magazine. Keep at it and I would be happy to lend a helping hand whenever you need some help and I I don't know then we'll research together until we find a solution. By the way. I remember Techrepublic was just as helpful to me in the days of transition from win 2000 and win95 through to 98 then XP etc. I remember that I used to feel the same about windows and the apple mac whenever I wanted to do a little more than just write a letter or add numbers in a spreadsheet. :-D

It's not a "new" mistake, but reading these posts reminds me of the most common mistake made. People approach a new OS with the wrong attitude. Many people pick up Linux expecting a "free Windows." It's not Windows, it's a posix-compliant OS. Holding up OSX and Windows as benchmarks for GUI design is one thing, but expecting every OS to mimmick their every detail is utterly ridiculous.

Embrace diversity. Don't just pick it up and shake it. Read the documentation that came with the distro. Read the man pages. Explore the web for it's wealth of information on the subject. Then, once you're familiar with it, you can decide whether or not it's the OS for you. But experience it for what it is, not what you want it to be. If I need a red pen, I don't pick up a blue one and stare at it and shake it, expecting it to turn red.

The man pages are about as useless to a newbie as an anchor to a drowning man. They're excellent references IF you already know what command you want and need to research its parameters or a refresher on its syntax. Otherwise, reading them is like a freshman sitting a 400-level class - not enough background to understand what's being said.

Thank you. My biggest problem with the open source community. I am slowly learning my way around but it has been a real struggle at times. I think Ubuntu has some excellent documentation for their OS that has proven to be very helpful. I keep trying to learn more because I know all of these operating systems have their uses and the more I can learn about the different flavors the better I'll be at supporting them.

:-D

When I buy a Ferarri I expect it to operate the same as my Ford. I expect to see a steering wheel, not a joystick--even if it's better. I expect to have the gas on the right and the brake on the left, not the opposite. I expect to push a botton or turn the key in the ignition to turn it on.

I just want a better-looking, better-performing car that I can jump in and drive. Using Windows and going to Linux is like going from driving a car to flying a helicopter. The only difference is that not knowing how to use Linux correctly won't kill you.

But if the user community had their way, even that can change...

...from users who never use anything but Windows and never learned how to do something like a simple spreadsheet forumula. "Computers should be like cars" they tell me.

What they're really saying is, "I don't know how to do what what I want to do and I shouldn't have to learn. It should just do what I'm thinking."

I'm much more skilled in unix/linux than I am with anything else but I couldn't care less if it gets adopted as a desktop by people. If people want to use it as a desktop, they need to be prepared to learn. If you don't have the patience for that, dance with the one that brought you. There's nothing wrong with using Windows or Mac. In fact, Windows is all I'm going to recommend my client base use on their desktops.

Servers are another story but the general user doesn't set servers up.

"I just want a better-looking, better-performing car that I can jump in and drive. Using Windows and going to Linux is like going from driving a car to flying a helicopter."

Correctamundo. The problem comes from those who present that helicopter as a "no learning required!" replacement for a car, and from those who buy a chopper thinking it can be controlled like a car. This includes those who chime in on Windows discussions with "You should switch to Linux!" assertions, and those who attempt the leap because of a near-religious dislike of MS but who neglected to realize the learning curve involved.

Except it doesn't though does it? You have to work harder to earn the extra it costs over your ford. You have to pay for the extra juice the thoroughbred uses to give you your performance thrills. You have to learn pay to learn how to drive better so you can really enjoy the extra speed safely. Even the oil filter and tyres require more financial effort from you.... Arsynic, I'm being a bit flippant here but you get the idea. Most men will tell you a really beautiful wife or girl costs more too. Thats why they go on looking so great.

Reading through all the comments made since my last post, I can see that only a couple of posters here really understood what I was getting at.

The original article is about "mistakes" that new DESKTOP Linux users make, not administers of backbones or enterprises. Focus, people.

First of all, I did not use the analogy of a OS as a "car," or a "helicopter." That's silly, because one system is designed for land transportation and the other for aerial transportation. Neither are boats, for that matter. I have driven various configurations of all three, so don't lecture me about that. An OS is a system for making things happen on a computer - in this case, a PC or "desktop" computer. Many years ago I used DOS. I also sucked my thumb as a toddler. I no longer do either of these things, because I have matured just as operating systems and software have matured.

HOWEVER.

NOBODY is selling this OS as a command-line OS, in fact, the opposite is true. My point is that Linux has in fact been touted for the last few years as an alternate *GUI* system to Windows, and similar to Apple. "Simpler" "more powerful" "more customizable," and it does in fact have *some* of those attributes - depending on the flavor, and I'm not talking RedHat. *Ubuntu* is the #1 Linux flavor being held up as the way to go for an alternate, inexpensive OS, for "anyone," not just "newbies," but the usual arrogance and refusal to listen to cries for help surfaces when this is pointed out, and then the conversation lurches over into admin techtalk about logging issues with Apache, or who gets to be root.

Follow the Prime Directive and do no harm. Stop saying, "the customer is making mistakes."

I am no fan of Windows, but due to economic constraints in the waybackwhen I could not afford Apple machines. That has changed over the last thirty years but my expertise and purchases in platforms and OS's was driven by that original issue. Today I can and do use Apples because that's what a lot of my clients use, and I have no issues with that OS. That said, I have my own stock of horror stories about Window's driver problems, wifi that wouldn't work, networks clogging up or disappearing, corrupt registries, BSDs, Windows "legit copy issues," virii and root kits, third-party security vendors peddling worthless firewalls, et cetera ad infinitum, and I have spend countless hours educating myself about how to fix them. I am not lazy or stupid and I expect a few horror stories when I approach ANY new software, and a learning curve. In case you folks haven't noticed, photography and video have been revolutionized. In my case, the switch from film to digital was a very steep learning curve that happened simultaneously with OS/cpu/CMOS/software development which I was required to keep up with (not to mention the photographic equipment itself, a whole other bag of worms), which educational requirements makes the added burden of obsolete command line tech worries a non-starter. What do *you* know about 16-bit colorspaces or ICC profiles? Precisely how many learning curves can *you* juggle?

The product - Debian flavored Linux - is being falsely advertised - see above. The Lynx configuration presently on offer is an vast improvement over Heron, for instance (I installed an Nvidia card and it actually downloaded the correct driver from online, hooray) but even it still relies much too heavily on the command line, viz, the icon package installation problem I cited. Linux as a hobby is one thing, and more power to you, but as a very busy design professional, I do not have the time to wade through a copy of Linux for Dummies. Also, the last time I had a driver issue, I spent about fours hours of wasted time on the Ubuntu Help forum and still didn't resolve the issue.

One of the more irritating things about Linux iterations it that almost every variation of the default theme packages are extremely crude by industrial design standards - see Apple out of the box for a benchmark (Windows isn't much better, but it is a snap to customize because of a two-click mouse action). I spend a lot of time in front of my computer and I refuse to look at crude icons, hideous orange colored folders and whatnot. That should have been taken care of twenty years ago, but it wasn't.

I have no actual use for Linux. Originally I was drawn to it because I understood that it was not the resource hog that Windows was (in 2000, to be precise) and still is. Also I wanted to see if the hype was true, and it is not. I've also built a Hackintosh, which was interesting, but only because I had some spare time and was curious. I am curious about Linux, and sympathetic, in fact. But the continued rudeness of the Linux community is off-putting, and with the price of multi-core cpu's dropping like crazy, combined with Redmond's latest, almost stable Win 7, why go to the bother of learning a new operating system, particularly one that has a community with such a superior attitude and a closed mindset?

The development community has had thirty years to build a whiz-bang, sleek and EFFICIENT Linux, and they haven't done it.

I'll keep checking back in, but I'm not holding my breath.

The Ferrari is a means of transport like the Ford and has a seat, a shifter or gear stick, gas pedal, but it performs quite differently from the Ford. It is built for speed and can do things that the Ford cannot do. Period. You could go around a hairpin turn at 100 mph in the Ferrari but if you attempt it in the Ford, we will be reading your eulogy. But in all fairness, when the Viper was first introduced, you had to get a special driving class before you were delivered the car...at least from one dealer i know in Texas and I heard that was the general case.
You could drive a truck and it would get you places like the car. But if you have a trailor attached and step on the brakes, it could jack knife and kill you or the trailor could snap and rool over the cab; driving a firetruck laden with thousands of gallon of water is quite a different thing. You could use the helicopter as your means of transport but you would still be faced with more panels and gadgets than in the car. But once you learn them, volia you become proficient at it and it is no longer a pain. Think of it that way. But if car is your thing then car is your thing. And no matter how flexible the helicopter is, you will remain driving the car.

Actually, the Linux community is pushing Ubuntu and such as Ferraris, when in fact Linux is a horse and buggy.

If drivers were compelled to use a command line in order to change their oil or tires, then very few people would be driving cars.

Anyway, humorous as it is, it's an inappropriate metaphor.

Actually, his metaphor is very accurate, when view with hindsight. Most people 1) didn't learn in a Ferrari, and 2) would be very scared to get behind the wheel, and just STOMP on the gas pedal. When moving from Ford to Ferrari, as with ever change), there is a learning curve. I have never gotten mad with a newbie question many questions, that I see as a normal operations.

"I want to install Photoshop, but the cd doesn't auto play"

'... you can't run Photoshop, as this OS doesn't understand how to operate that software, you will need to use 'GIMP' instead, it is much like Photoshop, allow me to help you....'

Those happy with Windows, if they want to try nix OS, then give them a live cd, no harm no foul. The problem is that most switchers get upset, because they aren't used to it, and are afraid they are going to break something.... Fear of the unknown, is ones own limitation. I know all about fear... COFS2 no knowledge, trying to fix a DRBD COFS2 array crash, located in a 2-tier email replicating cluster farm. "What do you mean crash...." IT admin's are paid to learn..

"The average user has no idea there are even different operating systems to be had. In fact, most average users couldn?t discern Windows XP from Vista from 7 (unless they are certain Windows 7 was ?their idea?)."

I think I'm about done with Tech Republic due to lame comments and reporting by their writers. Seriously, Jack, take out a loan and buy a clue....

Timbo.

How many ordinary people in Zimbabwe now the difference between linux, windows, OSX, OS2 etc. not many unless they have had IYT training at school or uni. What makes you think the west is any different. Ask your friends family or associates to list them and tell you the difference.... I really mean no offense here but I don't think the criticism is valid.

Many people simply identify "the computer". A step up is simply confusing "Windows" and "Office" and referring to no particular version of either.

And you're lucky if computer hardware isn't just generically referred to as "the hard drive", or even "the CPU", if they feel particularly savvy.

I've got users who daily refer to having a file in "Microsoft", unable to differentiate between the Windows OS, the Office suite as a whole, or any of the Office apps individually. They also can't differentiate between Windows Explorer, Internet Explorer, the Internet, the company intranet, and network shared folders.

This was years ago, but I setup a SWEET Apache cluster that was screaming along...except...after about a month of operation it was really sluggish. Suddenly, it starts throwing all kinds of 404s and 405s and is acting strange.

Well, long story short. I forgot to rotate my Apache logs. Oooops.

If apache logs get to long, it slows it down???

Is it possible to tell Apache to limit its log size?

This was a long time ago, so ya, it slowed the machine down. The access.log was something on the order of 2gb. Plus we had some web apps that were logging that had huge logs.

To limit the size I would guess you could send the log to a named pipe and limit the size that way?

Or do what I do, just setup a cron job to rotate the logs weekly.

Cause that would certainly be easier...

I've tried modifying the log directly, but it is always locked open by apache. You have to shut down the program to edit the file.

ok.. made me look.. and it seems to be a popular question. There seems no maximum log size directive for Apache. Log management solutions range from the logrotate package available in some distributions through to home made scripts to perform the rotation or direct log output to a null device.

I'd rather limit their size. Seems the only way to do that is to write a program to capture the apache process, and at set times, shut down apache, clean out the log, and restart apache...

my webserver still running WAMP, haven't gotten around to changing the computer to Nix yet.

You should see my latest creation, I made a program that indexes my funny pictures folder, creates a ~1kb thumbnail image, sorts the images and creates the HTML webpages to list em off. While automatically flaging the not safe for work images and producing those thumbnails blurry.

I have the process run at noon every day. After an initial run, each subsequent run only takes about 30 seconds to do, even with the ancient hardware.

http://www.trevorsarchives.selfip.net/funpics/images/

The problem with being a packrat, I now need a program specifically to search my pictures archive for duplicates.

If you start playing with Ubuntu or Debian in a VM, watch for the logrotate package to save yourself writing code (unless it's evening recreation of course).

I think I saw an apache module for it. But rotation less interests me then simple truncation. I don't care about my logs 2 years ago.

As for duplicate images, if they have different names, that would be tough.

I suggest throwing em all in 1 folder, then sort by Size. Images of near identical size or identical, are probably the same image

I used to have a little app that listed duplicates based on image content rather than name.ext/size but the ideal is one that can re-size on the fly to compare content at different sizes. Then you can kill off duplicates and smaller resolutions. Acdsee first generation (before they added video and the rest of it) was also invaluable in it's day since you'd get a thumbnail image when trying to copy one file over top of another.

For Apache, the logrotate windows module may get your started so you only need to write a "delete all files older than" script.

If you are looking to re-size, I know how to do it for images other than PNG's (in Windows), those have me stumped ATM.

I could see resizing down for comparison but sizing up images never goes well. It always seems to go boxy or fuzzy depending on how you try to increase the pixels.

>>5: Sending OpenOffice documents to Microsoft Office users in the default format
I think this a problem of the OO developers. We already know the most common format is word.doc. During the install they should ask if the user will be send documents to Windows users and then use allow them to check .doc as the default document and if only to Linux users, use the .odt format as default. That would easily allow users more confidence and less frustration. Or simply assume they will be sending to Windows users and use the default of .doc extension. BTW they should now update it so it can save as docx.

Duplicates are easy enough - in Windows, I use a program called Duplicate File Finder (ver 1.1.0.0) by Rashid Hoda - it's a little hard to find these days, but it's a great program. Freeware as well.

Under Linux, I'd recommend just writing a script that does an MD5 hash check on files and then output the results. I wrote a VB6 program once to do a similar thing under Windows. The beautiful thing about open source is that someone has probably already written a script that will do MD5 hash checks under linux.

Also, for resizing of images, check out a ImageMagick - in particular, a program included called convert.exe (not to be confused with the Windows convert.exe program that converts the file system).

ImageMagick is great and will work under a variety of Operating Systems including *nix and Windows. It's quite powerful - and all command line as well, so it's perfect for scripts.

If you run logrotate all of your troubles with log size could be resolved. You can hold as many logs as you want and can even compress them for storage. Logrotate can look at the size of the log and rotate it if it larger than a limit you configure.

If you need help just email me and I'll be glad to converse.

Jim (jbayer at springcm dot com)

I don't know too many who set up web servers, or clusters, or clustered web servers. Maybe I'm not hanging out with a geeky enough crowd?

If you are setting up servers or server clusters then you are not a new linux user.

Setting up a server for the first time on any system is not a task for new users.

You need to attend more Star Trek conventions.

when we traded cassettes of dialog from reruns, recorded with microphones taped to the TV speakers, long before James Bliss' adaptations or IDIC jewelry from mimeographed catalogs

Seriously, how many newbie home users build web servers? Nothing wrong with going off-topic around here, I just wanted to point out that Apache log management doesn't fall under the subject.

I happen to agree with you.

I knew you were, but I can see where my post came off as my not getting that. I tossed a 'smiley' in; hopefully that will take the edge off.

Clearly the divide is too great when it comes to the "user friendly OS" debate.
I've followed this debate for some time and I'm convinced more than ever that Linux distro's will never compete with the popular distros of Windows and Mac simply because there isn't the will. And this isn't going to change any time soon. The linux community wants and builds a different technology.
It's at a different level than most users are going to be satisfied with. Finally, as an IT professional that uses both (I'll be honest) I can tell you that Windows and Mac are at the top of users choice for a reason, they are easy to use, to get apps for and more importantly, to get help for. At the end of the day that is what the everyday user needs and wants. Sorry Linux world but you are still relegated to the niche server app.
What more is there to debate?

You claim that you are a professional who uses both.. then you use the terms "Linux heads and don't get it. Then you say they who don't get it are getting what they want. I think we know your agenda. If that was meant to be definitive then glad you have nothing more to debate.

Linux has come a very long way and is still evolving. Likewise DOS and Windows has come a long way. My money is on windows evolving and merging with Linux is with each adopting the best of each other. Place your bets

Where have you been Bosei?
Windows has been taking the best of other OS's forever! Keep your money. You'll need it to buy the next version of Windows.

Don't get me wrong, I hope the best OS wins, because that means the user wins. But just as a house is built on a foundation so an OS has to have a proper philosophical foundation - user friendliness (If it's going to be a populous OS that is).

Last point. Although I am very comfortable with troubleshooting tech problems (for a living by the way) I think it's fair to say that users find us arrogant when we think they should drop everything they think is important to "make" time for what we think is important. And thus the crux of the matter. The OS that wins will be the one that users "want" not what we want to shuve down their proverbial throats!!

Last, last point.
That's why many of us have work and that's not going to change any time soon. A perfect OS is unattainable but let's all admit the obvious, the best OS is the one that is easy for the end user who isn't a techie or a geek !!!!!!!! Have I wasted my time here or does anyone get this?

You know... if Windows and Mac would merge, like Bill tried to do with Steve in the beginning, we wouldn't even have Linux.. how about those apples.. and NOW, I believe that sometime in the future, Mac and Windows will merge and corner the market on End-Users, and complete command line based NIX systems will still be the IT Guru's baby. The point is, that what makes the money is the winner. And right now it is Mac and Windows. The last attempt I saw of a store bought Linux based system was Lindows, until they got sued. You want to debate Windows versus Mac versus Linux versus Unix.. it is not a debate, that is like trying to debate Possums to Dump-trucks. You can't, that's the point, the debate is opinionated. Remove the opionions and you have facts. command based system runn faster then gui based systems.. fact. Speed is also relative to the hardware. I have Windows 95 on a dual AMD 64, and that will BLOW your Mac away... well duh. I can run the entire OS in RAM and applications.

People need to debate the facts and not opionins.. you are correct, that the consumers demand dictates the market. Period

As a retail or manufacturing shop, money would be my end goal so retail market share figures have some basis. It's all just units to be shipped in return for profit (the real company product).

From a user perspective, how much money a product made for it's parent company doesn't provide any valid quality or functionality metrics. osX tends towards a better user experience but it's retail market share is smaller than Windows. The percentage indicates popularity only; no relation to product quality or functionality.

I always giggle a little when someone's entire claim boils down to "but my choice is more popular so it must be better". "The market" is a terrible indication unless, and only when, debating retail business metrics unrelated to the end user beyond them being the source to harvest little green pieces of paper from.