Discussion on:

Adding across columns (Babbage's Difference Engine and other historic computers)

"Four cranks of the handle" gives a whole new (or old) meaning to the term "Machine Cycle"

Great Pix.
Thanks, Bill.

Truly a four-stroke then .....

The first time I viewed it in the Science Museum in London, it was; Wow!

It is so beautifully made, that any engineer cannot fail to be impressed.

1931 Vannevar Bush Differential Analyser. Remarkable piece of machinery, very useful at its time, yet, almost forgotten. Wrench programmable, solved problems, which previously took months, in seconds.

http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/still-image/Bush-Vannevar/bush_vannevar_differential_analyzer.c1930.102618648.lg.jpg

Save driving motors it was entirely mechanical. Oddly enough, one of the things it was utilized for was electrical grid calculations.

some of the huge tabulating machines in the old battle ships, made for computing gun coordinates for fire control!

This is all really cool! I love history. Especially science history. One of my favorite forms of fiction are the H.G. Wells, and Jules Verne books that took known facts in the 1800's and accelerated those ideas into futuristic fantasy!

It's basic component & pinciple of operation is the same: Ball-and-disc mechanical integrator. Unlike old fire control computers, though, Bush's machine was programmable. And, yeah, it was employed for artillery table calculation during the WWII as well.

It even starred in the sci fi movie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WJuRFKyiPo

Probably the only movie computer without blinking lights ever!

Never saw that before.

Had to be the one, asked, "Is there God?" and gave the answer, "There is, now."

The Florida Automatic Couputer (FLAC) made by UNIVAC was the launch control computer at Cape Canaveral. It was replaced by parallel CDC 3300s some time in early 1960s.

there were vacuum tube computers pioneered by the British and Americans during WWII that were pretty impressive and help break cryptographic codes and solve Manhattan project problems.

I'm pretty sure one of the electric computers made it on board a Naval ship for fire control. It used electric solenoids instead of vacuum tubes, I believe. By mid to late WWII ships had enough electric power to run such gizmos.

What is generally not known is we had a secret weapon on board our submarines that gave us a huge advantage over our enemies, that was a mechanical computer used to solve attack vectors for torpedoes. We had the only air conditioned subs in the war, because of the need to keep its delicate precision mechanical parts dry.

Between computers, the Norden bomb sight(which was just a miniaturized Babbage/Jacquard type mechanical computer), and the nuke; I just gotta feel a little sorry for our enemies at the time! :/

The main ingredient was disc-and-sphere integrator (or some variant of it), the same thing Vannevar Bush used.

If my memory serves me right, it was invented by William Thomson aka Lord Kelvin. His disc-and-sphere mechanical analog computer was used for calculation of Fourier transfom of tides, and predicting them.

Here's the pic of his gizmo

http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/images/I032/10302637.aspx


and the ball-and-disc integrator up close

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/24/Harmonic_analyser_disc_and_sphere.jpg

The enemies had their share of impressive hardware. Luckily they (at least the nazis) had ideological issues that prevented the full realization of their potential.
Being led by a raving megalomaniac isn't conducive to military prudence.

Thank you for that link by the way, it was very interesting. I believe Carl Norden, a Dutch engineer invented the sight.

I was not trying to differentiate between mechanical analog and mechanical step process, but mainly the feature of mechanical calculation that relies on precision parts to accomplish a mission, regardless of other differentiation.

The machining that went into the mechanical aspect of the bomb sight was so sophisticated at the time, even when spies who worked in the factory sent the parts to the Nazis, they were only able to complete some of its capabilities.

To me it is all the same, just as many older fire control computers used similar principles; as in the Norden, they were all tied to various instruments that enhanced the output or mission they were designed to accomplish.

> when spies who worked in the factory sent the parts to the Nazis, they were only able to complete some of its capabilities.

Of course, that's like trying to steal a computer program by sending one line, or maybe one subroutine.

Analog computers are very interesting beasts. They are "programmed" by connecting their components (mechanical or electronic) in different ways. With all components working in parralel, they deliver solution instantaneously, or calculate it continuously. That's something digital computers weren't capable of, until recently.

The components of mechanical analog computer are nicely explained in this old Navy education flick

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8aH-M3PzM0

Disc-and-sphere integrator is explained in parts 5 and 6. Systems of differential equations can easily be solved by connecting integrators into various feedback loops.

OK, now, to speculate a little bit around this... the pioneering work on general system theory and control theory was done by Russians (Lyapunov, Kolgomorov). All top scientists in this field (Harold S.Black, Norbert Wiener, Harry Nyquist, ...) at the time of the WWII were living & working in the USA. There were no Germans among them. It's therefore a big question how quickly they could comprehend the principle of operation of Norden computer even if they'd got it whole and intact. WWII would probably be over, before they could reingeneer it.

As I've mentioned before, analog computers can easily solve systems of differential equations, and that could already be considered a rudimentary problem solving capability. WWII fire control systems were far more than just a bunch of cams and shafts.

and I don't know why, as the new science so transcends them!

Thank God computer numeric control came along, with better sensor information for machining centers, to take the slack out of mechanical wear on such systems!

Thank you jkameleon for that trip down memory lane!

... but mathematics. It was not transcended my modern science, but upgraded. It's still utilized in digital multimedia, iPods & such. Replace Laplace transform with Z transform, and you get the same formulas, with same result, only in discrete samples. Old mechanical fire control systems sinking into oblivion was quite unjustified.

Mechanical analog computers are one of those things, which are far more than meets the eye. That's the primary reason why I'm so impressed with them.

They are like CRC/ECC calculation circuit. Shift register, a couple of exor gates, a child's play. But mathematics behind it... oh my!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematics_of_CRC

Planimeter is even better example. You can easily make one from beer can, wire and bubble gum. Even a plastic spoon will do:

http://durealeyes.com/planimeter.html

Mechanically, it couldn't get simpler than that. But the principle of operation... not so elementary, my dear Watson:

http://www.math.duke.edu/education/ccp/materials/mvcalc/green/index.html

That spies you've mentioned before, the ones that have been stealing Norden sight components... basically, that was like stealing the beer can the above planimeter is made of. Meaningless.

You see farther.

I remember sixteen years ago writing a paper on the rivalry between Leibniz and newton on differentiation. When I talked to my dad about the mechanical calculators Leibniz also built, he said "yeah, we had machines like that when I started work, less fancy looking, but about the same capabilities".

Now I wonder if quantum computers will be more like the mechanical ones...

I know a thing or two about the micromachinery inside every human cell... small stuff and yet not small at all, but almost all of it very tangibly moves matter around, rearranges it, and functions because of it. The proton sledgehammer of the mitochondric subcells for example... it's actually a miniature railgun, but it's function is to nail unstable compounds together so that the energy stored in their instability can be put into use elsewhere.

It's ... well, it just is.

That one got stuck in my mind when I first saw it. Burned in there like branded with hot irons.

My foggy memory relates that his thoughts eventually led to the precursor company that finally became IBM.

(edited) Nope, I was thinking of Herman Hollerith, who worked for ten years from 1880 to the next census, on one of the first punch card calculator machines. (if not THE first)

Babbage invented the punch card idea, I believe, and successfully designed the machine to do it, but it wasn't built either.

Seems like Hollerith actually designed punch card code for 1890 census. By spindling punched cards, "sorts" could be conducted. Idea grew and grew. Became IBM, ASCII. Killed lots of trees.

One early example: Jacquard mills of the early 1800s used a form of punch cards to control knitting machines. These Jacquard looms used a series of punched cards to control the warp threads as the weft threads were passed through, created limited and repetitive designs. They were a form of early automation, and many were destroyed and burned by workers fearful of losing their jobs.

Human ingenuity is simply amazing!!!

This is HW, indeed!

Charles Babbage's inventions were not only difficult to make, he had enormous trouble finding a draughtsman who was able to even draw the parts he needed! He did find one eventually who was good enough - and was paid handsomely for his outstanding work.

It is still a matter of debate that the technology at the time would have allowed its construction. but given that the Egyptians could build pyramids with rods and rope, I would guess that it would have been possible - but what a struggle!

that the modern copy of this machine was made with old machine tools from 1836 or so; mass parts manufacture had been invented at Harpers Ferry by then, I believe.

All other non machined parts were made to order using early 1800's techniques and tools.

Without the fantastic drawings it would really have been a guess for that project. What a project!!

No one would have seen an economic reason to spend that kind of money on such a development at the time. Using hundreds of clerks was still cheap labor in that day.

Hence the lack of invention by the Romans--plenty of slaves to throw against any problem

Plus, the push for an invention if sheer manpower isn't enough. The 1880 census took so long (over seven years) that the Census Bureau contracted Herman Hollerith to design and build a tabulating machine to be used for the next census. There was a genuine fear that the 1890 census might run into 1900.

was the hero of the day with his tabulation machine, and first commercially successful punch card system(not including musical instruments).

This made it possible to complete the census of 1890 within one year! Eventually his company morphed into IBM. I thought it was amazing that this German-American included electrical processes into this tabulation system.

Ironically, buy 1985, I was filling out punch card sheets for the Army with a digital computer controlled memory typewriter, that actually made that whole mess obsolete. I got tired of filling out punch cards sheets for the state, as they were still in the dark ages, so I programmed my typewriter to do it faster. However the on-board memory was only 35k; and ran out very quickly.

I integrated the only laptop I could find, the IBM Convertible, so that I could increase this memory capability, and it was cheaper, or at least more practical to split up memory duties between the two machines.

The laptop was using the then new, plastic micro floppy at 750k each in two drives. Then the 1.44Mb microfloppy was introduced to make this even more affective at memory storage.

After automating my office, I declared my position to be obsolete and toured out, leaving my Supply Sergent job to the computers. And gladly so, as it was drudgery work in the extreme! I then went to school to get an engineering degree.

In all my labors in the industry, I've never seen the work force loss that is always predicted by nay sayers. The resulting increase in accuracy and productivity, has always resulted in more hiring, not less.

And the resultant jobs more rewarding and paying at higher salaries.

I worked in a Municipality from 1989 - 2009. from 1989 to 2000, workforce increased by 10 people. They finally computerized. I finally got to play with PCs and be network admin (and everything else having to do with PCs, programs and people) (computers being denied me by the AF in 1958 even with top aptitude scores - no facilites for women at the training base). From 2001 to 2009, tenfold increase in productivity and 2 new part-time hires while municipal population grew from about 7,000 to 30,000.

i am new at this but it is very interesting

When it comes down to it, we are all new to this, none of us being there at the time.

Myself, I have read intensively into the history of computing. Every time these things come up, like now, all I can say is, "Wow!"

Like you.

I entered the computer world in 1971 and that was a long time ago. I have seen some really old stuff, including vaccum tube technology, but when I started, ICs were starting to show up in most computers. Paper tape was still in use on some older systems.
Replaced many bad transitors, and wire wrapped boards to find good circuits when parts were not available.
WOW! Does this make me old? I believe the proper term is 'over-exposed'

must have made me old, 'cause I sure feel it!

I was still using paper punch cards in the Army and processing them with a digital computerized memory typewriter!!!

Talk about weird overlapping technology!? It was like the individual was running over the big machine, and making it obsolete in one stroke!

WOW!!

First systems I syupported in the Navy were UNIVAC 642, no not the Alpha or Bravo, but the first generation serial numbers 2 and 4.
More power in a watch than what they had, but we did a lot with them. Used then in Viet Nam with great accuracy.
Also created a safe zone between them when we were being shot at.

Looks like a computing engine based on the abacus!

The Zuse Z23 (1961) (one of the photos) is a is descendant of the first working computer
(also mechanical) built by Konrad Zuse
(google - konrad zuse computer)

would argue about whether he made the first electro mechanical computer. Even US sources show such things as late as 1940.

I seem to remember some advancements in the US in 1936.

However, I am delighted to see how far the Germans really got with that science. I'd be willing to bet he had the first Turing computer, even if it didn't have the memory for it.

Wow, there are people outside that still live on WWII.Everybody know about german/japan cientics that works after war on USA.

There was a very successful businessman in Japan just as the war was progressing, that was close to solving the A-Bomb problem all in his single corporation, but he was using so much electricity to process fuel, that the Nippon war department, confiscated his power for the war effort!

I believe Jun Noguchi was his name,and this industrialist was miles ahead of everyone on heavy water production!

Depending on which side you rooted for, that was either a God send, or a horrible miscalculation on Tojo's part!

Good to see the photo's of our historical relics. Perhaps readers would be interested in the activities of the UK Computer Conservation Society http://www.computerconservationsociety.org/ which has been reconstructing pioneering computers for some years,including a working reconstruction of the Colossus Computer used in World War II for breaking the German secret codes and the Bombe designed by Alan Turing for the same purpose. These can be visited at Bletchley Park Museum in the UK. Other early machines such as the Ferranti Pegasus are also being recommissioned. Excellent photo's of the world's first business computer, the LEO I can be seen on the LEO Society Website at http://www.leo-computers.org.uk/

I remember learning how to program the LGB-30 in the fall of 1967. It took about a page and a half of Assembly language to program square root using Newtonian approximation. The next term we got to use an IBM 1130 if I recall correctly.

Two points: I had remembered that Lord Byron's sister Ada had been a "programmer" for Charles Babbage at one time. Interesting historical linkage.

Also, I am ambivalent about several of the computers I have actually programmed being referred to as "historic". Back in the 1960s I programmed several CDC computers, including the powerful 6600 and 7600. We programmed in Fortran; the computers had a standard 60-bit word, with double and triple precision programmable. Both machines were liquid cooled. Earlier CDC machines were the 3000 series and the little 160-A. If the machines themselves are historic I supppose the programmers of such machines are also historic. Strange feeling. We looked upon the 6000 and 7000 series as being almost godlike in their power. Seymour Cray, designer of all the most powerful CDC as well as the Cray computers, was considered among the immortals.

When I lived out in the country in Colorado, Seymour semi-retired and move a mile down the road from me. I always want to meet him but never got up the nerve to drop in and introduce myself.
Two reason: did not want to disturb his privacy, secondly didn't want to realize how little I knew about computers if we got into a discussion of what he knew.
I believe he would have been a facinating person to study under.