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http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/hiner/?p=5586
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Yes, I would more than likely use Tab Candy. What I'd really like to see, though, is more effort put into speed. Chrome and Safari simply seem faster to me.
...wholeheartedly. The sole reason I never adopted FF was the appallingly long time it takes to open for the first time. Too often, by the time it opened I had forgotten what I wanted to do with it. I gave it a few weeks but ran out of patience, and reverted to IE.
As each new version of the 'Fox comes out I give it a quick look (I have to be at least passingly familiar with it since a handful of customers use it) but ever since IE came out with tabs I've had everything I ever need in the Microsoft stable.
If Mozilla could just make FF load in double the time it take to get IE off the ground, I'd switch. But when that load time is five of six times as long, forget it - grouped tabs or not.
As each new version of the 'Fox comes out I give it a quick look (I have to be at least passingly familiar with it since a handful of customers use it) but ever since IE came out with tabs I've had everything I ever need in the Microsoft stable.
If Mozilla could just make FF load in double the time it take to get IE off the ground, I'd switch. But when that load time is five of six times as long, forget it - grouped tabs or not.
...are you on about?! FF starting up 5 or 6 times slower than IE?! Even back in the days of IE6 when, okay it didn't have tabs but, it loaded pages reasonably fast and didn't freeze, Firefox was two or three times faster at start up! Since then IE has done nothing but get bloated.
Even if the window somehow manages to open anywhere near as quickly as Firefox, it freezes immediately and I can't even highlight the current URL for a good 10 seconds after the page (Google is my IE8 homepage) has loaded!
Whereas my Firefox loads two homepages, Facebook and GiveAwayOfTheDay, and still opens faster while also allowing me to change the URL while the page is still loading. I've never encountered a computer where IE loads faster than FF. Not that I've owned, used or even just observed.
Chrome, on the other hand, does load a bit faster than FF. But that's probably because I've given my Firefox a load of non-standard features that simply improve my web experience and boost productivity (such as FireFTP, Evernote Clipper, Skype Plugin, AdBlock Plus, Firebug, Google Preview, etc).
Even if the window somehow manages to open anywhere near as quickly as Firefox, it freezes immediately and I can't even highlight the current URL for a good 10 seconds after the page (Google is my IE8 homepage) has loaded!
Whereas my Firefox loads two homepages, Facebook and GiveAwayOfTheDay, and still opens faster while also allowing me to change the URL while the page is still loading. I've never encountered a computer where IE loads faster than FF. Not that I've owned, used or even just observed.
Chrome, on the other hand, does load a bit faster than FF. But that's probably because I've given my Firefox a load of non-standard features that simply improve my web experience and boost productivity (such as FireFTP, Evernote Clipper, Skype Plugin, AdBlock Plus, Firebug, Google Preview, etc).
...are you coming from?! IE opens 5 tabs with Skype plugins before FF even present the splash screen.
Scrolling pages are terrible and images take forever to display.
I have yet to encounter a computer where FF is faster than IE8.
Chrome on the other hand is equal to IE but doesn't work with many of my sites.
Scrolling pages are terrible and images take forever to display.
I have yet to encounter a computer where FF is faster than IE8.
Chrome on the other hand is equal to IE but doesn't work with many of my sites.
I wouldn't be too proud of having sites that only work with IE.
With no tests of my own, I'm guessing that your difference in startup times is due to IE being already loaded to provide your Windows GUI environment. IE is the widget set that the rest of the GUI draws on.
Provided IE8 remains on the same level as FF and Chrome security wise, go with which ever browser interprets standard html properly. I just wouldn't base the decision on startup times and such.
With no tests of my own, I'm guessing that your difference in startup times is due to IE being already loaded to provide your Windows GUI environment. IE is the widget set that the rest of the GUI draws on.
Provided IE8 remains on the same level as FF and Chrome security wise, go with which ever browser interprets standard html properly. I just wouldn't base the decision on startup times and such.
The reply was generated due to the presentation and tone of the reply above.
I use all three at times and find that for my needs, IE fulfills more needs and is as fast as any. If a page loads in 1.8 or 2 seconds, I'll not notice.
Proud or not, some sites (and their plugins) either do not support or unreliably operate outside of IE.
I view security a little differently in that regard. The browser should maintain a minimum baseline, but I am the key to security. Where I browse, what I accept or click on, etc.
I use all three at times and find that for my needs, IE fulfills more needs and is as fast as any. If a page loads in 1.8 or 2 seconds, I'll not notice.
Proud or not, some sites (and their plugins) either do not support or unreliably operate outside of IE.
I view security a little differently in that regard. The browser should maintain a minimum baseline, but I am the key to security. Where I browse, what I accept or click on, etc.
That's my number one complaint of Firefox, and the reason I often switch to Chrome for impulsive surfing. Firefox can take an age to start up.
It needs to be up in the twinkling of an eye. If there are addin updates, tell me that after it's started rather than get in my way. I want that first window up, with focus in the address bar ready for typing, in 1s or less so I can do what I want to do.
It needs to be up in the twinkling of an eye. If there are addin updates, tell me that after it's started rather than get in my way. I want that first window up, with focus in the address bar ready for typing, in 1s or less so I can do what I want to do.
With regard to "1s or less" who do you think that you are fooling, other than yourself? Not even Chrome launches from zilch to full availability in that little time on any Cray supercomputer that you could afford to buy.
If you really want Firefox to load as fast or faster than Chrome (Opera loads the fastest of all, by the way, and renders pages faster), then don't install any add-ons -- no plug-ins such as Flash, no extensions such as NoScript. Also, use Tools > Options > Advanced - Update tab to disable checking for updates, so that won't slow you down.
Remove the addons and disable update checks, put Firefox on the Quick Launch bar, then see what it can do.
It is a well-researched fact that 1s is about the upper time limit to avoid mental interruption whilst working. See, for example:
http://www.useit.com/papers/responsetime.html
from Jakob Nielsen.
It constantly bugs me when people say things like "why do computers need to be made any faster - they're fast enough already". If I am *working* on something, my browser should not interrupt my concentration/flow whilst loading. It is only displaying HTML after all. I should be able to launch an HTML page and have it appear in front of me. I have a computer able to operate at three billion instructions per second (per core!), yet to start up Firefox (without any/many add-ins, etc.) I have to sit and wait for it to open?!? Seriously? Firefox used to be fast. Lots of people have noticed that the latest versions gummed right up. Apparently 4.0 will be faster, so clearly the Firefox developers realise there is a problem.
I don't think it would be a bad idea if all commonly-used programs aimed for a sub-second launch time, particularly for applications that are used regularly. And with my PC able to do three billion instructions per second per core, and with nothing much else happening on my PC at the time, I don't see why this is unreasonable for the bulk of programs these days unless they are bloated and written inefficently.
http://www.useit.com/papers/responsetime.html
from Jakob Nielsen.
It constantly bugs me when people say things like "why do computers need to be made any faster - they're fast enough already". If I am *working* on something, my browser should not interrupt my concentration/flow whilst loading. It is only displaying HTML after all. I should be able to launch an HTML page and have it appear in front of me. I have a computer able to operate at three billion instructions per second (per core!), yet to start up Firefox (without any/many add-ins, etc.) I have to sit and wait for it to open?!? Seriously? Firefox used to be fast. Lots of people have noticed that the latest versions gummed right up. Apparently 4.0 will be faster, so clearly the Firefox developers realise there is a problem.
I don't think it would be a bad idea if all commonly-used programs aimed for a sub-second launch time, particularly for applications that are used regularly. And with my PC able to do three billion instructions per second per core, and with nothing much else happening on my PC at the time, I don't see why this is unreasonable for the bulk of programs these days unless they are bloated and written inefficently.
Tab Candy sounds fabulous, but the reason I use Chrome is that it is exponentially faster than Firefox. A secondary reason is the greatly increased real estate for viewing pages, but the speed is what lured me away from Firefox and is the only thing that will lure me back.
but then, I won't use Firefox because it has a terrible user interface.
and adding more features to it won't make it work any better with it's piss poor user interface.
and adding more features to it won't make it work any better with it's piss poor user interface.
use the tab candy as it is a perfect answer to those of us who do research and want and need this kind of control that even includes creativity.
Possibly it could be made a an extra like a plugin that only those who really want it can have. Or maybe something that can be turned on to be used.
Possibly it could be made a an extra like a plugin that only those who really want it can have. Or maybe something that can be turned on to be used.
In the mean time I'll use "Tree Style Tabs" which does a lot of Tab Candy work
What is chromes keys to success?
IMHO - speed and simplicity
Is it for everyone? No Why? Because unless you know how to look at bookmarks, history, and get into the "guts" of chrome to make it more intuitive - it's not friendly.
Firefox - decent speed, lots of functionality and interfaces that can be shaped to the way you like. An AppStore full of fantastic apps (way better than Chrome) and total control over how the browser operates (incl. about:config). It also handles very nicely (IEtab/IEView) pages that used to only be renderable in IE - Chrome does this too, with less than impressing results.
TabCandy WILL change how Firefox users browse -but will it convert folks from Chrome?
We'll just have to see
IMHO - speed and simplicity
Is it for everyone? No Why? Because unless you know how to look at bookmarks, history, and get into the "guts" of chrome to make it more intuitive - it's not friendly.
Firefox - decent speed, lots of functionality and interfaces that can be shaped to the way you like. An AppStore full of fantastic apps (way better than Chrome) and total control over how the browser operates (incl. about:config). It also handles very nicely (IEtab/IEView) pages that used to only be renderable in IE - Chrome does this too, with less than impressing results.
TabCandy WILL change how Firefox users browse -but will it convert folks from Chrome?
We'll just have to see
I have been using iCyte for several months now and I must say that Tab Candy doesn't impress me at all. In addition to providing the ability to create and private folders called projects for website links, iCyte captures the website as it exists at the moment of capture and stores it for future reference. Regular book marks will take you to a URL that may have changed over time. With iCyte, you can still see the information that was captured when you stored the link (called a Cyte, a cleaver play on words) for the website.
iCyte has many more features that would take too much time to describe here, but you can check it out at www.icyte.com. I can't say enough good things about this service. It has become must-have tool for me.
iCyte has many more features that would take too much time to describe here, but you can check it out at www.icyte.com. I can't say enough good things about this service. It has become must-have tool for me.
It has features that might be nice in a browser, but it's not a browser. In fact they state what browser it will work with.
I also do not like the idea of some outside storage of my browsing history, for who knows what purpose. Do they sell the information to anyone? They are in business for a reason and I doubt that it is charity oriented.
I also do not like the idea of some outside storage of my browsing history, for who knows what purpose. Do they sell the information to anyone? They are in business for a reason and I doubt that it is charity oriented.
I suppose I should have been explicit and stated that iCyte is a tool, Harry. I didn't mean to imply that is was a browser.
The point was to provide information on something that is available today that does far more than Tab Candy. As a hosted tool, it is available whenever you have Internet access. As with any other hosted solution, one must understand how it works and, as you point out, not store sensitive information there if you could be damaged if it ever was disclosed to third parties.
I understand your concerns, but I have judiciously used hosted solutions to great advantage as an IT consultant. Done properly, such solutions can be used quite securely. For me, iCyte has proved to be an invaluable and indispensable tool and I have nothing there I would be concerned about from a security standpoint. The collaboration feature has been a key element for me.
Although I am perhaps just as skeptical about anything that is free as you are, cloud solutions are a part of the landscape now and they aren't going away. You are not required to embrace the cloud by any means, but I encourage you to at least look at things with an open mind. You might be surprised what you find that way.
The point was to provide information on something that is available today that does far more than Tab Candy. As a hosted tool, it is available whenever you have Internet access. As with any other hosted solution, one must understand how it works and, as you point out, not store sensitive information there if you could be damaged if it ever was disclosed to third parties.
I understand your concerns, but I have judiciously used hosted solutions to great advantage as an IT consultant. Done properly, such solutions can be used quite securely. For me, iCyte has proved to be an invaluable and indispensable tool and I have nothing there I would be concerned about from a security standpoint. The collaboration feature has been a key element for me.
Although I am perhaps just as skeptical about anything that is free as you are, cloud solutions are a part of the landscape now and they aren't going away. You are not required to embrace the cloud by any means, but I encourage you to at least look at things with an open mind. You might be surprised what you find that way.
the Firefox Scrapbook extension?? From your description, iCyte and Scrapbook apparently do many of the same things -- or perhaps I should say that Scrapbook can do the same things, if that's what you want Scrapbook to do. It can save everything from a page to an entire website, although it isn't clear to me whether saving a copy of a huge website would have any value for me, personally, at least not very often.
Thanks for the heads about the Scrapbook feature. I'll certainly check it out.
For my purposes, I make good use of iCyte's collaboration features. Each project can be limited to only those people with whom I share that information.
The other key feature is the ability to get back to the information that existed at the website when the Cyte was created, even if the website has been changed afterward. This has proved invaluable for research and documentation purposes for me.
Obviously, everyone works differently. iCyte works very well for me but it might not be a great tool for someone else. I just offered this information so that others can check it out to see how it might help them. It's what we do in this community.
For my purposes, I make good use of iCyte's collaboration features. Each project can be limited to only those people with whom I share that information.
The other key feature is the ability to get back to the information that existed at the website when the Cyte was created, even if the website has been changed afterward. This has proved invaluable for research and documentation purposes for me.
Obviously, everyone works differently. iCyte works very well for me but it might not be a great tool for someone else. I just offered this information so that others can check it out to see how it might help them. It's what we do in this community.
I remember that Netscape Navigator, allowing people to browse to pages containing java apps was the MS Killer of the late '90s.
This appears to be conceptually similar.
It is easy to imagine a netbook running scaled-down Linux with a few local utilities simply opening a browser desktop like this and you opening your page linking to a word processor in the cloud.
This would render both Windows and MS Office unnecessary.
This appears to be conceptually similar.
It is easy to imagine a netbook running scaled-down Linux with a few local utilities simply opening a browser desktop like this and you opening your page linking to a word processor in the cloud.
This would render both Windows and MS Office unnecessary.
Its like Bookmarks/Favorites on steroids, visually. I like it.
This would be a HUGE improvement for me. I currently have over 3o tabs open as reminders. Being able to group them would be a major benefit. I am anxious to see it.
Yes, me too. I have lots of tabs open and I don't want to be searching through bookmarks to find them so groups would be great!
Firefox regularly uses half a gig or more of RAM on my machine and will often get unstable with more than 30 or so tabs on my machine.
This isn't just a problem with Firefox, though: Chrome tends to run away with RAM in the 20-30 processes it runs. Additionally, this always seem to leak from Windows (Vista), meaning that when I shut the brwosers all down to free the memory up Windows still tells me I have 2GB in use and I know it's time to restart the OS.
But I really don't see why each browser window needs to use 10-100 MB of memory...
This isn't just a problem with Firefox, though: Chrome tends to run away with RAM in the 20-30 processes it runs. Additionally, this always seem to leak from Windows (Vista), meaning that when I shut the brwosers all down to free the memory up Windows still tells me I have 2GB in use and I know it's time to restart the OS.
But I really don't see why each browser window needs to use 10-100 MB of memory...
I'm currently in college and do my work on computers that are wiped (re-imaged)every night; so all my data lives in the cloud (Google Docs).
For a research project, it's nice keep continuity: to just blow all your sources back into the tabs you were working with the day before. (Rather than tediously copying links to/from a text file, forgetting to do same, etc.)
You can save all tabs to a bookmark-folder, then export. After you re-import you can shoot everything from the imported folder to tabs in the browser. It's fiddly.
It sure would be nice to just click a compound-short-cut and, bam, be back where you were. Nevermind the fact that you might want to do this where you shouldn't be messing with the local bookmarks.
For a research project, it's nice keep continuity: to just blow all your sources back into the tabs you were working with the day before. (Rather than tediously copying links to/from a text file, forgetting to do same, etc.)
You can save all tabs to a bookmark-folder, then export. After you re-import you can shoot everything from the imported folder to tabs in the browser. It's fiddly.
It sure would be nice to just click a compound-short-cut and, bam, be back where you were. Nevermind the fact that you might want to do this where you shouldn't be messing with the local bookmarks.
people who have umpteen tabs open at once need to organize their lives/jobs, not just their browsing. there really is more to life than the internet, i promise.
If you are in any sort of an IT job, there are going to be times where you will have to have several tabs open at once. If they can be grouped so that one does not have to wade through those "umpteen" opens ones, that would be a bonus for me.
I got one to dilbert because well, I want dilbert, one to webex, 3 on MSDN pages for a piece im working on, 1 on TR, 1 on webmail, 1 on gmail, 1 on hotmail...
I may be looking up 3 things for work, one for fun, and inevitably, two other people come up with questions that I need to look up. And some are open all day for research, some for hotel reservations, some for directions in another locality, some for directions somewhere in the city I'm in...
I sure wish my life was simple enough that I didn't have to use a computer, like some others apparently do.
I sure wish my life was simple enough that I didn't have to use a computer, like some others apparently do.
If you're a researcher or a power-user with a browser, then this is going to be a great tool. If not, which is apparent you aren't, then it won't - pretty simple. Like a car - you either drive your whole life in an automatic and some drive in a manual - a matter of preference.
I stopped using FireFox because of the way it handles new tabs vs. Explorer. (I really hate having to use the keyboard when browsing) I will have to try it again when Tab Candy is out. Thanks for the info.
Seems like a really good innovation of Opera's Speed Dial, may even switch to Firefox due to this.
It's so much easier to have a 'homepage' of all your sites, currently, and the added abilty to create differing groups on the fly is a fantastic idea
It's so much easier to have a 'homepage' of all your sites, currently, and the added abilty to create differing groups on the fly is a fantastic idea
Not bad. I actually downloaded and installed to a laptop. I will take some time to give it a good looksee. Does look pretty slick though.
I actually use Opera more than FF, and one of the reasons being Opera is more friendly for numerous tabs (it also seems to run faster).
Being able to organize the tabs is a fairly nice feature. Not sure I would get too much use out of the tab sharing though.
I actually use Opera more than FF, and one of the reasons being Opera is more friendly for numerous tabs (it also seems to run faster).
Being able to organize the tabs is a fairly nice feature. Not sure I would get too much use out of the tab sharing though.
I sort of do this already with Chrome - although I use folders and multiple windows. Tab Candy looks like it would make things a lot easier, especially with all of the other features it adds.
Integrity HR
Integrity HR
In my opinions this kinda thing is exactly why FireFox has missed the opportunity to get fully mainstream.
What a "normal" person wants is something that browses the web. They don't want configurability / add-ons / skins / plug-ins.
That's the kinda thing that Geeks want. Nothing wrong with that - geeks are people too!
However, it will never overtake IE if this is an indication of where it is going. Mainstream users (your mom) don't need this and they never will.
What a "normal" person wants is something that browses the web. They don't want configurability / add-ons / skins / plug-ins.
That's the kinda thing that Geeks want. Nothing wrong with that - geeks are people too!
However, it will never overtake IE if this is an indication of where it is going. Mainstream users (your mom) don't need this and they never will.
I think this ff feature will be extremely valuable e.g. For business users - love it
I agree perhaps that we might understand it better but even for my partner this is a revolution. To explain it to her, she'd never get it but to show it to her & how to use it & she'll be using it all the time.
Her business has suffered because of the lack of a tool like this & it really is a tool. Delineation by groups, social, business, hobby & more specialised groups within groups make this a fantastic tool. You are severely underestimating people. The fact that they don't get it immediately as distinct from yourself being a geek just shows that they don't understand it. Describe to them how it can make their browsing life more organised & perhaps show them & most people will see the benefit.
Tab control offers everyone a way of re-visiting stuff that was interesting that I couldn't check now but want to get back to later on without keeping every single tab open which slows down Firefox considerably. It also allows the user to use the browser in distinct ways; ie browsing generally, bill management, business management, new ideas, hobbies, family stuff, personal stuff just as an example.
Having distinct groupings is an obvious one for me but I get it & I read tech-stuff. Mere mortals who have no tech interest at all, like my partner, will still get the brilliance of this with not much explanation, just a little help.
Her business has suffered because of the lack of a tool like this & it really is a tool. Delineation by groups, social, business, hobby & more specialised groups within groups make this a fantastic tool. You are severely underestimating people. The fact that they don't get it immediately as distinct from yourself being a geek just shows that they don't understand it. Describe to them how it can make their browsing life more organised & perhaps show them & most people will see the benefit.
Tab control offers everyone a way of re-visiting stuff that was interesting that I couldn't check now but want to get back to later on without keeping every single tab open which slows down Firefox considerably. It also allows the user to use the browser in distinct ways; ie browsing generally, bill management, business management, new ideas, hobbies, family stuff, personal stuff just as an example.
Having distinct groupings is an obvious one for me but I get it & I read tech-stuff. Mere mortals who have no tech interest at all, like my partner, will still get the brilliance of this with not much explanation, just a little help.
My main concern with a browser is speed. FF 3 lags on startup, so it's a distinct possibility it will still lag (or lag even more) with the new features.
Unless they can beat Chrome's performance, they're not an option.
Unless they can beat Chrome's performance, they're not an option.
If I wanted candy I would use M$ Office $uite.
With each release FireFox is getting slower and gooier, and if they do not focus on the lack of speed issue, they will lose many of their early adopters and new users will try it a few times, shrug their shoulders, and move on to (or back to) Chrome.
With each release FireFox is getting slower and gooier, and if they do not focus on the lack of speed issue, they will lose many of their early adopters and new users will try it a few times, shrug their shoulders, and move on to (or back to) Chrome.
while running Chrome and Firefox, there was not very much difference in "startup speed". I ran both in the same Sandboxie sandbox, but Firefox had about 30 add-ons, and Chrome had only two or three "plug-ins". I was surprised that the Firefox add-ons did not make a much more significant difference, which leads me to wonder what the performance of Chrome will be like when users begin adding plug-ins to it as they tend to do with Firefox.
It is quite possible to reduce Firefox to its "bare bones", and it will then resemble Google Chrome with respect to its features and functionality, and most definitely with respect to its "speed", not only on startup but in surfing websites, too. However, I wouldn't advise doing that without using the Firefox NoScript add-on, which is not available for Chrome. Some would say that it is not necessary for Chrome, but I have some doubts about that.
By the way, Opera is faster than Chrome.
It is quite possible to reduce Firefox to its "bare bones", and it will then resemble Google Chrome with respect to its features and functionality, and most definitely with respect to its "speed", not only on startup but in surfing websites, too. However, I wouldn't advise doing that without using the Firefox NoScript add-on, which is not available for Chrome. Some would say that it is not necessary for Chrome, but I have some doubts about that.
By the way, Opera is faster than Chrome.
A wonderful inovation..but it should not crash in between of browsing
it shows great promise if it shows it has speed too
If all that crap is kept as an option that I can avoid, OK; otherwise, it will likely drive me to IE.
personally speaking Chrome is my browser of choice mainly because of the extreme none-cloggy ui mixed with great performance ...
more crash-prone features is the least already snailish firefox needs
more crash-prone features is the least already snailish firefox needs
I can and do keep many tab groups open simultaneously. IE gives me an adequate browser with tabs and tab groups, Windows lets me open and organise several IE sessions. With task bar groups I can navigate to them easily. My other computer is a Palm Pre, and it also has a good multitasking operating system.
I say forget ff 4 and push this out the door asap! That is exactly what I need.
Imagine the streamlining of bookmarks this will enable. Mind boggling, I can't wait to get my hands on this one.
Imagine the streamlining of bookmarks this will enable. Mind boggling, I can't wait to get my hands on this one.
If they can put it in FF4, I'll definitely start playing with it. I usually have 30 or more tabs open at a time, 2/3 of that being "infoguilt". I'd love to be able to organize it visually (i.e., as opposed to bookmark trees).
This CANDY look like Safari TOP SITE setup. Not impressed. I use Safari and Firefox but more Safari. I find Chrome has a lot to be desired for.
The worst feature of Firefox to date is how it handles memory, uses tons of RAM - not all of us have unlimited resources - and is slow to release it when closing down or restarting. Maybe I have too many extensions, but that is the best feature of Firefox.
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