Discussion on:

The dirty little secret about Google Android

Original post:
http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/hiner/?p=5855

Why, it's positively soviet!

This is one of the instances where a government decree is in order.
It doesn't have to stipulate anything about how it's to be implemented, it only has to say that "There shall be a 10% TAX on all profits of a wireless network not open to service-only-customers" or something to that effect.
It will be, in effect, a non-law as every telecom will immediately live up to all expectations.

All the big carriers would just pass the cost on to consumers. We'd end up paying more and their profits wouldn't be hurt in the least...

Agreed... y give us discounts on the phones in the 1st place rite?

Anyway... despite google's dirty little secret... i still love it... freedom FTW!!!

not to mention diversity and sense of uniqueness unlike the 1 and only exclusive uniform iOS... LOL

I know that in Europe (and surrounding socialist areas), throwing a tax on everything is pretty much a reflex for you guys, but taxing everything to hell and back isn't the solution. Neither is getting the government to regulate things which absolutely don't concern them.

I may not be thrilled about what cell phone companies are doing in this part of the world, but I would be even less thrilled to know that the government is taking yet another power grab to control things which they shouldn't control.

If the phone companies are going to change, it's going to require a consumer revolt. But for as long as consumers are too stupid to demand change, or all too willing to put up with the telecom industry's crap, things will continue as usual.

Dear Pickle: Typically arrogant of the "bidness" types to be so disdainful of consumers and what rubes they are. What universe do you live in? Do you think everyone gets to bop around in Europe like you do? How are phone buyers supposed to know squat about what the rest of the world looks like? They eat the dog food set on the plate in front of them and they don't know there's a ten course meal elsewhere.

Incidentally the last time I checked, Toronto was in Canada which at least a few people think has adopted "socialism" in it's medical system.

Let me educate you about real public ownership: the airwaves in the US are a public resource that's leased, not owned, by the bloated, inefficient, and eternally greedy telcos. They take their marching orders from us, when our reps haven't been bought off, that is. The FCC simply needs to re-assert it's authority to serve the people.

The "gumint" is us fool, not some suit whose pockets have been pre-lined with telco cash.

It's because of knee-jerk "anti-gubmint" types that we get the s___ sandwich we most certainly don't deserve. Instead of counseling citizens to regain control of their government this sort of person counsels anti-gubmint drivel which encourages people to think there's no use in re-asserting their power. With that mindset in place, the Oligarchs and their corporations can gleefully run roughshod over us and our pocketbooks.

If it comes to "big bidness" or "big government" I know which I'll take- the one I ostensibly have a say in with my vote rather than the perfect little dictatorship that is the modern corporation. The first poseter had it right- it's Soviet- you will have it their way!

I found it interesting that the first reaction was "Oh Nos!! The Red Menace!!" or the claim of socialism as it's become hip to fear these days. Why is it that some immediately jump to "we can't do that or the Red's will get us" without any consideration for potential benefits. Bah.. I should stay out of these political discussions.

Fact is, it's not political.
Political is what the governments and parties have to say about it, but the issue itself, it's sheer economics.
The telcos will keep doing what they do until it's not profitable enough any more.
In many ways there seems to be a cartel going on, since many big companies are giving out uniformly poor service, with no-one trying to compete on that parameter.
Cartels are illegal for very good reason, and they need to be busted open sky high, ASAP.

Well, yes, they both cry Red/Socalist/Imigrant/Other menace when convenient for there own ends. In this case, I was refering more to citizen claims such as our own Pickleman:

"I know that in Europe (and surrounding socialist areas)"

Quick.. everybody hide under the bed! React! React! Fear! Don't think! Just Fear! They're com'in fur us all! hehehe.. Not to mention the great outcry over the US medical system becoming remotely modern.

I was referring to the "Bah.. I should stay out of these political discussions."
My reply is "Please don't! Just skirt the politics, it's never relevant anyway."

But yes, it seems that the "pocket Reagan"-kneejerk is still there, even after the demise of soviet communism. Or... maybe it's Cuba they're afraid of?

it's us socialist Canadians. We're just laying dormant for a few hundred years before we springup and invade Turkey (we're renaming it Chicken).. then y'all are next south of us. We'll attack out of the blue from our advantageous bases in Chicken! moowahahahahaha!

We'll be very apologetic and polite during our invasion though of course.

Every time you buy a product you 'vote', and it's a nice little targeted vote for just that one particular thing. If you don't like the android then buy an iphone.

However every time you vote for a politician, you're voting on a whole range of things, some of which you won't agree with, but you prioritize those issues so you get most of what you want from them.

Not to mention, it's much easier and cheaper for a corporation to buy a politician (protectionist regulations), then to buy consumer loyalty or create new innovative products.

I don't mind regulation, that's the governments job. But keep in mind it's not free, every level of regulation makes it easier for one company to gain a lobbying advantage over the other, and in the long run you end up with worse options. Short term gain, long term loss.

Thank you for the thoughtful reply. You're right regulation of any sort is not easy, and there are always ways for creative people to exploit even the tiniest loophole.

The alternative is a corporate state, an oligarchy really, that runs roughshod over consumers. We get perilously close to that at times. Telecommunications is just one example out of many. Witness the buyoff of the Minerals Management Service, their utter fealty to the oil industry, and the resulting blowout of 180 million gallons of oil in the Gulf of Mexico and the Lousiana marshlands.

As long as there's money to be made, there will be a strong temptation to use that money - as much as necessary - to buy off regulators. That will never stop. Eternal vigilance is the price we pay for open government.

> Do you think everyone gets to bop around in Europe like you do?

Typical arrogant socialist who knows nothing, but presumes to know everything. I don't "bop" around Europe. In fact, I haven't set foot in Europe in 28 years, nor do I have any desire to do so.


> Incidentally the last time I checked,
> Toronto was in Canada which at least a few
> people think has adopted "socialism" in
> it's medical system.

Quite true, which is why Canada's health care system is in the shambles that it's in. Don't presume to think that just because I live in Toronto, I automatically subscribe to all the de facto liberal/socialist tenets of Canada.


> How are phone buyers supposed to know
> squat about what the rest of the world
> looks like?

We live in a connected world. If you're smart enough to turn on a computer and use a web browser, you already have all the tools you need to research what things are like in other parts of the world.


> They eat the dog food set on the plate in
> front of them and they don't know there's
> a ten course meal elsewhere.

Just as ignorance of the law cannot be used as an excuse for committing a crime, so too should ignorance and general stupidity not be used as an excuse to remain clueless about how things are done elsewhere in the world.

How can consumers revolt when everyone is doing it? AT&T, Verizon, Sprint etc.. You can not just walk away from one and get what you want from another. Believe me. I HAVE tried to do so. There is a falacy in the thinking that if you do not like what one company is doing you can just go to another compnay. They ALL do it!

The problem with socialism is socialism.
The problem with capitalism is capitalist.
Untethered capitalism will bring about its own downfall.

> How can consumers revolt when everyone is doing it?

Simple: stop buying their products or services. Period.

You didn't see me say anything about jumping from one company to another, did you? No, you didn't.

The internet is being used every day for all kinds of stupid and utterly useless sh*t. It's about time it was put to some good use, don't you think? Would it be so inconceivable to start a petition and have tens (or hundreds) of thousands of people all join forces and demand change from Company-X? If a hundred thousand AT&T customers demanded change with the threat to suddenly drop their service all on the same day, you don't think AT&T would take notice and act?

But of course, I wouldn't expect anything of that sort to happen, because people would much rather whine about their problems instead of actually getting off their ass and doing something about it.

I 100% agree with you that IF consumers were to ban together then real change could be made. Consumers, as a group, have the greatest power to bring about change than any person, corporation or government, IF they showed the fortitude to ban together. The problem is that this will never happen and companies know this. BP just took a big hit from the consumers but BP already knew they could wait it out and the consumers would be back. Just let another 6 months go by and it will be business as usual for BP. There in lies the problem. Even when consumers target a company directly ( read BP ) for their actions there is never enough consumers behind them and the attempts to do so wain over a short period of time. You need to face the facts, just as corporations have. Consumers rarely, if ever, stand solid over any corporate miss behavings. Some will actually defend the corporations regardless of what the corporations do. You see this everyday. Representative Joe Barton(R) from Texas APOLOGIZED to BP for their being "raked over the coals"! He was not the only one to do so and he will almost certainly be re-elected. Really?

The internet is a powerful tool that consumers can use to bring information to the masses, but the masses must be willing to respond. Rarely do they do so in any great number even in the face of a tragedy.

The chance was given to us by Google & HTC when they sold the Nexus One. It was an unlocked phone that offered all of the capabilities in Android including those that OEMs were forced to block by the carriers like tethering. Had consumers embraced the open model as in Europe, we could have transformed the US mobile industry.

I have enough internet portals so I dumb down one phone. Saves $240/yr !

The idea of a completely self-regulating free market is as much of a utopian, idealistic pipe-dream as a pure communist society.

If it wasn't for automotive legislation and regulation, we would all be driving around cars as safe, reliable, and well designed as the 1960-1963 Corvair. Cars are a necessisity in our society, and consumers are in no place to "revolt" and "demand" safe, reliable, well designed cars. For the same reason that an otherwise ethical business has to seek outsourcing to remain competitive with their unethical rivals who abuse off-shoring, a consumer must purchase an automobile, even if the only choices are poor ones, to remain competitive with his neighbor in the job pool.

And this is the reason why sane, reasonable, and effective legislation is necessary in automobile manufacturing, off-shoring, and in the Cellular communication industry. I know there is a large and vocal minority here on Tech Republic who insists, "if you just didn't BUY their products when you disagree with their unethical business practices, they would change their tune". This is an unrealistic analysis.

Telephone portability is something that the cellular carriers would never have accepted without government intervention, and the legislation that mandates that carriers port numbers changed the face of the cellular industry by empowering consumers in a way they *should have been empowered from the start*, but were *unable to do so themselves solely through market forces*.

I tend toward libertarian and conservative fiscal and economic policies - but I'm also reasonable. The State must occasionally correct imbalances in power between consumers and corporations and industry. The Cellular industry is one of the best current examples of where that is called for. While the original foundations of our nation may not have foreseen a government active in the regulation and legislation of business practices, our nation was founded as a small collection of states with highly localized, agrarian societies. Industrialization and mass-transportation of goods made a fundamental change in how those economics worked, and made it inevitable that government needed to step in to mandate regulation and law at a federal level more often. Globalization is simply an accelleration of that fact. If *you* don't like it, there are lots of shacks available in Montana - but for the rest of society that wants to work, live and function together, it is a simple reality of the modern economy. The truth is, modern society can't support everyone living in a locally, independently self-regulated economy. We need intrastate, interstate and global commerce to support the population - and those demand government regulation in order to work effectively. It is *that* or a *massive* thinning of the herd. I'm sure we would see more than a few votes for the latter - but I'm not casting my lot with that outlook.

Rather than realizing they where in the "energy" industry, refinery companies limit themselves by thinking they are only in the "gas" industry. If not for some serious lobbying, we'd probably be driving highly efficient electrical cars or some other non-combustion based system. The gas companies flipped when the 60s (was it 70s?) electric cars proved to be viable.

Ironic really considering that in the beginning electric, steam and fuel cars where all designed with electric cars nearly usurping the other two. Or that diesel engines where designed to run on corn oil until a diesel company sponsored the research and demanded it be modified to only run on diesel.

You said it better than I was trying to do. Bravo, for a bit of realism in an unrealistic world.

I and many others are sick and tired of cell providers not being responsible for providing good service. I have had 4 different providers and each one has been ok at first and progressively gotten worse as time went on but for the consumer there is no recourse and the provider continues to do as they please because there is no regulation. This is most prevalant with sprint and Verizon. Sprint is the worsr provider of them all but they do nothing to better themselves and they are one of the most expensive and Verizon customer service has become pitiful to the point that they are surviving on their name alone. They have numerous times not done their job and left me hanging with hundreds of dollars in charges they refuse to take responsibility basically making my phone unaffordable for me in this economy. I am all for the Government stepping in and making these folks responsible for their actions and for the service they provide their customers.

buy a unbranded htc desire and choose the carrier you like.

The question then becomes, how long does the carrier allow your htc to connect before they shut down your account for not using a carrier-approved device?

This is where the government should come in Neon. If the FCC makes it illegal for a telco to deny service to a customer who has not obtained his hardware through them then their strangle hold on the consumers is broken.

Of course they will kick and scream but in the end they'll be better off, after all they are (or should be) in the business of selling telecommunications services not hand-sets.

My faith in the FCC is skeptical at best given the duopoly (later monopoly) sale of the digital spectrum and other things I've read since topic first came up on OSNews. I don't think this is an indication that legislation should be abandoned as an option but it does indicate that the first problem to solve is the bought government and idiocy of the FCC (patent office and others).

This shows a true lack of leadership from google. Not at all what I expected from them. The initial promise, both forced by apple and then espoused by google showed a determination to break the hold of the carriers on the handset manufacturers. This allowed great innovation, especially from apple with the iPhone, and showed what possible when the carriers no longer dictate the terms.

I had high hopes for google to lead a similar open source charge with android. A simple development platform separated from the carriers and their desired and paid for crapware would have accelerated the pace of innovation and invigorated the device makers to really make better toys.

I hope that more articles like this will spur google to be back in the game and retake control of the platform and biuld a true competitor to the iPhone

it would be nice. Personally, I would love an iPhone, but I refuse to subject myself to AT&T's industry-trailing customer service, so that pretty much only leaves me the android since these things are too expensive to just mess around with willy-nilly.

That won't work, because they will just pass that charge on to the Customer. The Government gets enough tax out of our monthly phone bills.

It's a law of nature.
And the non-compliers will be at a competition disadvantage, which they already should have been. A tax will break their cartel.

Don't have this problem in Jamaica. Is the same problem in Europe or Asia. I not so sure this is a dirty secret of Android or a dirty secret of the US telecom market.

Awesome article, ... though the custome has the last say ... just needs someone to come up with an app to kill all the crapware.

That's why customers flash their phones but telecoms astutely void ur warranty if u do. And ur average customer hasn't the foggiest notion that. The telecomm has hobbled his phone much less how to fix it.

Can you tell me what that means and how to do it? I have the HTC Incredible and since the 2.2 update I have a lot of apps I don't want, don't use, and can't keep them from using my battery life. I close them out constantly w/ATK but as soon a I do they're open again. I've "force closed" them, and tried to uninstall them to no avail. I'd love to know how to get rid of them. Verizon is getting a lot of buzz on this problem and I'm hoping that a new update will come out so we can at least keep them from opening on their on even if we can't uninstall them. I'd be happy with that option for the sake of my battery. I even got the 3500 extended battery which lasted 2-3 days before the 2.2 update. Now I have to charge every night again. I can't imagine what I would have if I still had the stock battery.

1) Taking it out in public for reasons of garnering envious attention.
2) Indecently exposing oneself to one's phone.
3) Using a physical link to update the flash roms of the phone, replacing it's firmware with a readied replacement. Unlike the other two meanings, the methods and possibilities for doing this depends on the make of the phone.

Check out xda developers site to get control of your phone. Make sure you make backups so your phone can be "restored" to original for warranty service.

Yes, these are legitimate concerns for me.

When choosing my next smartphone, I will not pick a phone where the Carrier has installed CRAPware, limits the functionality, or requires additional fees for functionality already a part of the phone.

Are there any that fit your description? Every telco is playing the same game. What real choice do we get?

With Sprint, you get everything for a flat fee, which is a lot less than any of the other carriers!

With Sprint you pay a flat fee until you use to much of their network and then they want to charge you more or cut you off. If you are part of the 70% of their customers who use the average amount of data you are perfectly fine. But you cross the threshold and Sprint becomes a nightmare.

You have to know the details, Sprint is better for the moment...(the telco rat race constantly changes)...with a seemingly flat fee approach. However...I am a Sprint customer, they flat fee you until you buy a 4G capable device and have to pay a $10/month fee(whether you get 4G service in your town or not, they are spreading 4G quickly though).

They also are doing exactly what Jason Hiner is talking about...crapware on the phone, nit-picking features that should be free. They charge $30/month to use the built in wireless tether/router on the EVO 4G. $30! Of course you can root your phone and bypass that...but you will basically void your warranty and they probably won't support you. However if you are rooting your phone you likely won't care to ever call "Bob" in tech support to hear his scripted ignorance.

Users have to raise the issue. Look how far smart phones have come in the last few years, if they open this up, imagine where it could be in another few years.

All telcos follow some similar bandwagon logic, which is to make money, forget the customer. Occasionally when one lags behind they bring in a new CEO with vision and logic and they detour for a while and improve things, but they all seem to come back to it. prove us wrong sprint.

In the beginning, you had to have Bell's phone on Bell's network; both with a monthly fee of course. The first jailbreakers where the phreaks that got phones from outside Bell's rental agreements. You can still find some of the old beasts floating around with "property of " stamps on the bottom. Best part is, because they where built before products starting being produced to fail in a year or two and drive future sales, they still work great.

The newer the equipment you are connected to, the less likely that old pulse-dial phone will work.

I've seen one modded with a cell radio. Literally one of the old desktop beasts with an antenna sticking out the back. This year at HOPE the had one modded with a noise canceling mike (used it for the social engineering panel) though I don't know details on how they wired it into the phone system.

Guess most couldn't just plug it into the wall these days depending on the local switch though.

Embed a pulse-to-dtmf converter inside the instrument. There's space there...barely.

One way to solve the lack of longevity issue is, when you get a great deal, like Bell's unlimited mobile browser at $10 a month and the infinitely hackable HTC Touch, which allows you any number of ways to bypass Bell's nickel-and-diming, to acquire not just one, but three units, to keep you going until the next great deal comes along

I can see some hardware hacking phone phreak having a lot of fun stuffing a dtmf converter inside to keep the old rotary dial input on the outside. Much more elegant than buying one of the button pad phones that came after.