I have to say, I'm inclined to agree with alot of what is being said here, but you're making an awfully big generalisation over a whole diverse range of industries. I think there IS a definate distinction between 'programmer' and 'software engineer'. Programmers, in my opinion, are code monkeys (like myself at present). We're given a task, and we bash the keyboard until it works, and usually we don't even get to choose the platform - and do you know what - I'm very happy to be a code monkey, I love it. The Software Engineer on the other hand will take customer needs, design and develop a system and a strategy to write the system to meet those needs - on an appropriate platform, using whatever tools are necessary to do the job (see the definition of engineering). That's two completely different roles - although that's not to say someone couldn't wear both hats.