Anyone can enum a lot of ways PCs save money over Macs. So... this post is very unhappy.
I'm still sure Mac is very expensive to hold business aproaches. Of course its hardware and OS are very nice, but where it can be enbedded in companys with no need of powerfull workstations for users?
C'mon, Apples marketing is strong and can't turn IT pros mind. Maybe some of your directors, but as you are the specialist, you must point all of this type os issues to them.
PCs with Windows 7 in a very refined network is still the best approach because Windows is natural to users, it's a strong part of computing growth in companys. V?rus is a netowrk administrator and suport dept responsibility. They must provide strategies to combat them with no need to big costs, and there is a lot of them.
Visual Studio and the .net Framework with a lot of free tools, resources and documentation are part of one of the best development environments nowadays, a big need to companies becoming very cheap to achieve local software needs. And the Objective-C is terrible to develop.
I can start talking about PC+Linux aproaches too, but its another history.
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#2 on your list is false at best and very misleading--crapple had their commercials where geek boy was so cool with his crapple but crapple still uses a one button mouse, will NOT "plug & play" with a lot of printers etc.
I have only seen crapples in use by school systems and web surfers- put them in a real work inviroment and you see real quick how useless they are as a work machine.
I have only seen crapples in use by school systems and web surfers- put them in a real work inviroment and you see real quick how useless they are as a work machine.
So, Erik is a fanboy? I don't recall him using terms like "crapple"... and how would you know Macs are useless as work machines if you've only seen them in use by school systems and web surfers? Sounds like you're the one making unfair assumptions and using pejorative language.
Working in a public school, we used Mac carts for about 4 years now and are fazing them out. They don't "play" well withour wireless network, do not authentication or drive mapping.
We do have one Mac lab that will be continuing to upgrade and that's used almost exclusively for video production.
Other than that, we're all Windows.
We do have one Mac lab that will be continuing to upgrade and that's used almost exclusively for video production.
Other than that, we're all Windows.
I started as a field engineer in 1975/76 - working for Ohio Scientific - who missed beating the original Apple 2E to market by a scant 2 weeks - simply because the owner moved his production from his garage to a 30,000 sq ft facility in Aurora, Ohio - taking 30+ days to set up the new facility before placing his far superior mass production version of the OS version of the PC on the market to the general public - unfortunately allowing Steve Jobs to start selling his fruit to the general public about two weeks before our product hit the market in quantities sufficient to begin having a measurable impact on the market during the absolute infancy of the industry.
I worked 30 years as an engineer in various capacities after starting in 1976 - and through all those years the ONLY legitimate advantage I EVER saw Apple hold was due to a failure by the IBM PC marketplace to realize the importance of the graphic design market as it grew and developed over the years - particularly in the area of broadcast Television media applications - while IBM and all the other PC platform development experts wisely focused their attention on basically every other business based application and use for computing power - thus attaining the overwhelming superiority they achieved in all areas BUT broadcast graphics applications.
Roughly 20yrs ago I was running my own business - and acting as a consultant to the FOX network - when they sent me out on a tour of trade shows looking for new technology to replace what was basically 30% graphics development for use in VERY basic commercials - along with station IDs, flags, transition slides, etc that were being done on early Macs at that point (Largely because of the simple fact that their head graphic artist was a diehard Mac devotee - and the remaining 70% of their graphics being manual single slide type products due to the fact that the Macs were unable to handle even such basic tasks back then. I found MANY new PC based graphics products that were JUST being released back then that were able to produce much higher quality finished product - but as with ANY new electronics products, the costs were still somewhat restrictive - although the MAIN Apple based competition then was nothing more than the "Video Toaster" - a very low end, low quality product that had gained wide acceptance in the broadcast industry - largely because it was at the time the only game in town. Our chief Graphics Design artist managed to use the industry acceptance of the "Toaster" to over ride my recommendations to spend an additional $15,000 at the time to get out on what was truly the leading edge - mainly to secure his own position as that was the only system he knew - And as a result roughly 3-4 years later the Fox affiliate I worked for scrapped out over $500,000 in 1987 dollars worth of Video Toaster/Apple Platform based equipment and replaced it the the later generation of the very same IBM/PC platform based video production equipment that had - as I predicted - by that time far surpassed the quality of the Apple/Video Toaster crap that Steve Jobs was willing to coast on as though no one would EVER challenge Apples control of that small slice of the market.
Even today, in 2010, the products available based on the "Apple" platform for general business type applications are BARELY able to come anywhere near competing with the same type of applications/products that have been available for decades now in a PC based platform - and most often even then only through the use of many add on products to enable them to even come close to the quality of the off the shelf PC based products used to accomplish the same productivity.
While I will grant the fact that Apple/Mac based products are now able to produce very high quality broadcast video products - the fact of the matter is that there are products of every bit as high a quality final product using applications based on the PC platform - and nowadays they are able to do so at a much lower cost than the majority of the Apple/Mac based products - and then there is still the MAJOR consideration involved in the fact that Apple/Mac based products are still running on nearly TOTALLY PROPRIETARY BASED HARDWARE COMPONENTS - RESULTING IN INITIAL HARDWARE COSTS THAT ARE NEARLY DOUBLE THE COSTS OF BASICALLY IDENTICAL PC PLATFORM HARDWARE - AND I CAN STATE FROM HUNDREDS OF REPAIRS ON THE APPLE/MAC HARDWARE THAT REPLACEMENT COMPONENT COSTS ARE RUNNING AN AVERAGE OF 400% OF THE COST OF IDENTICAL REPLACEMENT PARTS FOR PC BASED HARDWARE - SIMPLY BECAUSE THE MANUFACTURERS OF APPLE/MAC HARDWARE HAVE A CAPTIVE/HIJACKED MARKET THAT IS LEFT WITH NO CHOICE BUT TO BUY REPLACEMENT COMPONENTS FROM "OFFICIAL RESELLERS" SANCTIONED BY APPLE/MAC THAT ARE OFTEN OF POORER QUALITY (Due to A LACK OF ANY SERIOUS COMPETITION), AND ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY COVERED BY WARRANTIES OF MUCH SHORTER DURATION - JUST AS AN EXAMPLE, ABOUT 15yrs AGO I HAD TO PAY WELL OVER $600 FOR A 40MB HARD DRIVE THAT I COULD HAVE BOUGHT FOR A PC BASED SYSTEM FOR FAR LESS THAN $125.... DOES THIS SOUND LIKE THE BEST BUSINESS PLAN FOR ANY ORGANIZATION LOOKING AT THE TOTAL COST OF A SOLUTION - THAT THEY WOULD PAY FAR OVER DOUBLE (OR TRIPLE) AT THE TIME OF THE INITIAL PURCHASE - AND DO SO KNOWING THAT EVERY REPAIR ON THE EQUIPMENT ON DOWN THE ROAD WOULD COST AT LEAST 4 TIMES WHAT IT WOULD COST FOR A SIMILAR PRODUCT BASED ON A PC PLATFORM..?? ESPECIALLY WHEN THERE IS NO HARD CORE EVIDENCE SUPPORTING THE SUPERIORITY OF THE MAC PRODUCTS IN THE FIRST PLACE TO SUPPORT PAYING DOUBLE, TRIPLE, OR EVEN MORE FOR THE INITIAL PURCHASE - AND THEN KNOW THAT YOU WILL PAY 400%, 500% OR EVEN MUCH MORE TO MAINTAIN THE SAME OVERPRICED EQUIPMENT OVER THE YEARS - SIMPLY JUSTIFYING IT AS A COST OF DOING BUSINESS ONLY BECAUSE THE OFTEN PRIMA DONNA GRAPHIC ARTISTS EMPLOYED IN THE TELEVISION, FILM, ETc, INDUSTRIES HAVE SPENT THEIR ENTIRE CAREERS LEARNING THEIR TRADE ON NOTHING BUT THE "FRUIT" PLATFORMS - AND AS SUCH WILL DO EVERYTHING THEY CAN TO SABOTAGE ANY EFFORTS TO BRING ABOUT CHANGE IN THE OPERATIONS OF THE GRAPHIC PRODUCTION DEPARTMENTS OF THEIR EMPLOYERS - USUALLY OUT OF FEAR OF CHANGE, AND THE RESULTING NEED FOR THEM TO LEARN NEW SKILLS - REGARDLESS OF THE OBVIOUS IMPROVEMENTS THAT WOULD RESULT IN THE FINISHED PRODUCTS COMING OUT OF THEIR DEPARTMENTS - AND THE VASTLY IMPROVED REPUTATION AND ABILITY TO INCREASE SALES FOR THEIR NETWORKS !!
THERE SIMPLY IS NO LOGICAL CONVINCING ARGUMENT THAT CAN BE IDENTIFIED FOR THIS MINDLESS, BLIND DEFENSE OF THE CONTINUED USE OF THE APPLE/MAC PLATFORMS FOR VIDEO PRODUCTION - AT LEAST IN EXCESS OF 60-70% OF THE CASES WHERE ANYONE HAS THE GUTS TO PUT FINISHED PRODUCTS OF THE TWO DIFFERENT TYPES OF SYSTEMS UP AGAINST ONE ANOTHER IN A FAIR, EVEN, COMPETITION - ONCE ONE REMOVES THE "FRUIT FREAK FAVORITISM" FACTOR THAT HAS MANAGED TO KEEP THE MAC EVEN IN THE RUNNING FOR THE LAST 20 YEARS !!!!
I worked 30 years as an engineer in various capacities after starting in 1976 - and through all those years the ONLY legitimate advantage I EVER saw Apple hold was due to a failure by the IBM PC marketplace to realize the importance of the graphic design market as it grew and developed over the years - particularly in the area of broadcast Television media applications - while IBM and all the other PC platform development experts wisely focused their attention on basically every other business based application and use for computing power - thus attaining the overwhelming superiority they achieved in all areas BUT broadcast graphics applications.
Roughly 20yrs ago I was running my own business - and acting as a consultant to the FOX network - when they sent me out on a tour of trade shows looking for new technology to replace what was basically 30% graphics development for use in VERY basic commercials - along with station IDs, flags, transition slides, etc that were being done on early Macs at that point (Largely because of the simple fact that their head graphic artist was a diehard Mac devotee - and the remaining 70% of their graphics being manual single slide type products due to the fact that the Macs were unable to handle even such basic tasks back then. I found MANY new PC based graphics products that were JUST being released back then that were able to produce much higher quality finished product - but as with ANY new electronics products, the costs were still somewhat restrictive - although the MAIN Apple based competition then was nothing more than the "Video Toaster" - a very low end, low quality product that had gained wide acceptance in the broadcast industry - largely because it was at the time the only game in town. Our chief Graphics Design artist managed to use the industry acceptance of the "Toaster" to over ride my recommendations to spend an additional $15,000 at the time to get out on what was truly the leading edge - mainly to secure his own position as that was the only system he knew - And as a result roughly 3-4 years later the Fox affiliate I worked for scrapped out over $500,000 in 1987 dollars worth of Video Toaster/Apple Platform based equipment and replaced it the the later generation of the very same IBM/PC platform based video production equipment that had - as I predicted - by that time far surpassed the quality of the Apple/Video Toaster crap that Steve Jobs was willing to coast on as though no one would EVER challenge Apples control of that small slice of the market.
Even today, in 2010, the products available based on the "Apple" platform for general business type applications are BARELY able to come anywhere near competing with the same type of applications/products that have been available for decades now in a PC based platform - and most often even then only through the use of many add on products to enable them to even come close to the quality of the off the shelf PC based products used to accomplish the same productivity.
While I will grant the fact that Apple/Mac based products are now able to produce very high quality broadcast video products - the fact of the matter is that there are products of every bit as high a quality final product using applications based on the PC platform - and nowadays they are able to do so at a much lower cost than the majority of the Apple/Mac based products - and then there is still the MAJOR consideration involved in the fact that Apple/Mac based products are still running on nearly TOTALLY PROPRIETARY BASED HARDWARE COMPONENTS - RESULTING IN INITIAL HARDWARE COSTS THAT ARE NEARLY DOUBLE THE COSTS OF BASICALLY IDENTICAL PC PLATFORM HARDWARE - AND I CAN STATE FROM HUNDREDS OF REPAIRS ON THE APPLE/MAC HARDWARE THAT REPLACEMENT COMPONENT COSTS ARE RUNNING AN AVERAGE OF 400% OF THE COST OF IDENTICAL REPLACEMENT PARTS FOR PC BASED HARDWARE - SIMPLY BECAUSE THE MANUFACTURERS OF APPLE/MAC HARDWARE HAVE A CAPTIVE/HIJACKED MARKET THAT IS LEFT WITH NO CHOICE BUT TO BUY REPLACEMENT COMPONENTS FROM "OFFICIAL RESELLERS" SANCTIONED BY APPLE/MAC THAT ARE OFTEN OF POORER QUALITY (Due to A LACK OF ANY SERIOUS COMPETITION), AND ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY COVERED BY WARRANTIES OF MUCH SHORTER DURATION - JUST AS AN EXAMPLE, ABOUT 15yrs AGO I HAD TO PAY WELL OVER $600 FOR A 40MB HARD DRIVE THAT I COULD HAVE BOUGHT FOR A PC BASED SYSTEM FOR FAR LESS THAN $125.... DOES THIS SOUND LIKE THE BEST BUSINESS PLAN FOR ANY ORGANIZATION LOOKING AT THE TOTAL COST OF A SOLUTION - THAT THEY WOULD PAY FAR OVER DOUBLE (OR TRIPLE) AT THE TIME OF THE INITIAL PURCHASE - AND DO SO KNOWING THAT EVERY REPAIR ON THE EQUIPMENT ON DOWN THE ROAD WOULD COST AT LEAST 4 TIMES WHAT IT WOULD COST FOR A SIMILAR PRODUCT BASED ON A PC PLATFORM..?? ESPECIALLY WHEN THERE IS NO HARD CORE EVIDENCE SUPPORTING THE SUPERIORITY OF THE MAC PRODUCTS IN THE FIRST PLACE TO SUPPORT PAYING DOUBLE, TRIPLE, OR EVEN MORE FOR THE INITIAL PURCHASE - AND THEN KNOW THAT YOU WILL PAY 400%, 500% OR EVEN MUCH MORE TO MAINTAIN THE SAME OVERPRICED EQUIPMENT OVER THE YEARS - SIMPLY JUSTIFYING IT AS A COST OF DOING BUSINESS ONLY BECAUSE THE OFTEN PRIMA DONNA GRAPHIC ARTISTS EMPLOYED IN THE TELEVISION, FILM, ETc, INDUSTRIES HAVE SPENT THEIR ENTIRE CAREERS LEARNING THEIR TRADE ON NOTHING BUT THE "FRUIT" PLATFORMS - AND AS SUCH WILL DO EVERYTHING THEY CAN TO SABOTAGE ANY EFFORTS TO BRING ABOUT CHANGE IN THE OPERATIONS OF THE GRAPHIC PRODUCTION DEPARTMENTS OF THEIR EMPLOYERS - USUALLY OUT OF FEAR OF CHANGE, AND THE RESULTING NEED FOR THEM TO LEARN NEW SKILLS - REGARDLESS OF THE OBVIOUS IMPROVEMENTS THAT WOULD RESULT IN THE FINISHED PRODUCTS COMING OUT OF THEIR DEPARTMENTS - AND THE VASTLY IMPROVED REPUTATION AND ABILITY TO INCREASE SALES FOR THEIR NETWORKS !!
THERE SIMPLY IS NO LOGICAL CONVINCING ARGUMENT THAT CAN BE IDENTIFIED FOR THIS MINDLESS, BLIND DEFENSE OF THE CONTINUED USE OF THE APPLE/MAC PLATFORMS FOR VIDEO PRODUCTION - AT LEAST IN EXCESS OF 60-70% OF THE CASES WHERE ANYONE HAS THE GUTS TO PUT FINISHED PRODUCTS OF THE TWO DIFFERENT TYPES OF SYSTEMS UP AGAINST ONE ANOTHER IN A FAIR, EVEN, COMPETITION - ONCE ONE REMOVES THE "FRUIT FREAK FAVORITISM" FACTOR THAT HAS MANAGED TO KEEP THE MAC EVEN IN THE RUNNING FOR THE LAST 20 YEARS !!!!
I have to agree the prices are outrages for outdated and obsolete (by pc standards) hard ware.
I have read a LOT of people writing about how bad MACs are, but they do not know anything about it because they use ONLY PCs!
I use BOTH MACs and PCs and I know the difference of the two platform.
I have tested PCs for more than 20 years
And I try to avoid the ones that run Windows of any kind. Linux works better on them.
I use BOTH MACs and PCs and I know the difference of the two platform.
I have tested PCs for more than 20 years
And I try to avoid the ones that run Windows of any kind. Linux works better on them.
I work in an engineering office, where we use AutoCAD and similar applications all day. We do _real_ work with our computers. The fact that Autodesk has just released AutoCAD 2011 for the Mac, and a viewer app for iPads, the iPhone, and the iPod Touch tells me that products from Apple are more than up to the challenge of doing real work.
Your characterization of Apple's products, and the obvious lack of experience you have seeing them in a variety of work environments, indicates one thing and one thing only. Your argument is a personal grudge; good luck translating that into a rational engagement with the real world.
Your characterization of Apple's products, and the obvious lack of experience you have seeing them in a variety of work environments, indicates one thing and one thing only. Your argument is a personal grudge; good luck translating that into a rational engagement with the real world.
Autodesk just started supporting the Mac platform after being gone for 10 or 15 years. Lets give it a year or two to see how it shakes out before we go bragging about this. Quickbooks also supports the Mac platform, but you have to read the small print to realize that it is not the same level of capability that you get with Quickbooks on Windows.
Bill
Bill
AutoCad, AutoDesk, and countless other serious design packages focused almost entirely on developing products for the PC Platform for nearly 20 years - before recently coming back out with a product supporting the Mac platform which as of this date is still VERY questionable as to the overall quality and the comparison between the Mac version and the PC versions - there OBVIOUSLY was a reason why the MAC platform received nearly NO ATTENTION from the software developers for that 20 year period - gee, I WONDER WHY THEY WOULD IGNORE A MASSIVE BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY LIKE THAT IF THE DEMAND WAS EVER REALLY THERE..??? 
What the hell do you really know about PCs. The fact remains that the majority of PCs used in the business world are and will continue to be Windows OS PCs and the reason is ease of use, cost efficient and familiarity of the UI. There are tons of software for them and many are free and very good. Company are just looking to get additional income from other sources. I have worked with both Macs and Windows PCs and I can tell you that windows PCs are better. Most issues with Windows PCs are with the users. If an idiot driving a honda or toyota crashes does that make the cars crappy or the driver who does not know how to drive the car to its expected potential? same with PCs.
If an idiot driving a honda or toyota crashes does that make the cars crappy or the driver who does not know how to drive the car to its expected potential?
Could it be that those companies deliberately target that sector of the market so they should be producing a car with better Active Safety?
After all anyone can bolt on extras to make something appear safe but if it handles like a scour in a squall to begin with it's still going to always be a nasty car no matter what you bolt onto it.
My personal experience with PC's is that Apple users tend to know what it is that they are doing and get paid more money to do a similar job where as Windows Users don't need any training and get Bottom End Wages.
But having said that I'm really a Windows Cleaner as that is what I work with most of the time and the Higher End Paying Positions do not need as much of my time and effort as the users don't see something and click on it because it's there.
The fact remains that the majority of PCs used in the business world are and will continue to be Windows OS PCs and the reason is ease of use, cost efficient and familiarity of the UI.
I'll completely agree with the bit about Familiarity with the UI but this is because IBM was the main Company to push PC's onto the Business Market and they used M$ product exclusively. The then WP was Word Perfect, D Base Lotus and so on and individually each far exceeds the M$ Offering. Where M$ is better of is the ability of the different parts of their Office Suite in transferring Data between Applications. None are any better individually than what they replaced most are significantly worse less easy to use by themselves but when taken into account of their ability to share Data the over all package is easier to use.
I have worked with both Macs and Windows PCs and I can tell you that windows PCs are better. Most issues with Windows PCs are with the users.
Yep I completely agree most issues are related to what the End Users do with them but having said that it's just as true that the Windows OS is so weak and suffers terrible Privilege Separation that allows the End Users to screw them up so badly. When M$ introduced UAC with Vista their single aim in life was to peeve off the End Users with UAC Notifications to push them into running as Admin. That's hardly wanted or a good system and leaves the Windows PC's wide open to infection.
So M$'s Overriding Philosophy seems to be Lack of Security by Design and to Hell with the rest.
Where M$ went wrong was to push the idea that any Idiot could use a computer running their software and that business didn't need to pay for Expensive Training for that single person who replaced the Secretarial Pool of yesteryear.
Now that it's blatantly Obvious that those people do need training the companies do not see the need to pay for it to get their workers up to the Minimum Standard that is necessary.
Sop just remember You are not a Highly Qualified Professional you are just a Windows Cleaner.
Col
Could it be that those companies deliberately target that sector of the market so they should be producing a car with better Active Safety?
After all anyone can bolt on extras to make something appear safe but if it handles like a scour in a squall to begin with it's still going to always be a nasty car no matter what you bolt onto it.
My personal experience with PC's is that Apple users tend to know what it is that they are doing and get paid more money to do a similar job where as Windows Users don't need any training and get Bottom End Wages.
But having said that I'm really a Windows Cleaner as that is what I work with most of the time and the Higher End Paying Positions do not need as much of my time and effort as the users don't see something and click on it because it's there.
The fact remains that the majority of PCs used in the business world are and will continue to be Windows OS PCs and the reason is ease of use, cost efficient and familiarity of the UI.
I'll completely agree with the bit about Familiarity with the UI but this is because IBM was the main Company to push PC's onto the Business Market and they used M$ product exclusively. The then WP was Word Perfect, D Base Lotus and so on and individually each far exceeds the M$ Offering. Where M$ is better of is the ability of the different parts of their Office Suite in transferring Data between Applications. None are any better individually than what they replaced most are significantly worse less easy to use by themselves but when taken into account of their ability to share Data the over all package is easier to use.
I have worked with both Macs and Windows PCs and I can tell you that windows PCs are better. Most issues with Windows PCs are with the users.
Yep I completely agree most issues are related to what the End Users do with them but having said that it's just as true that the Windows OS is so weak and suffers terrible Privilege Separation that allows the End Users to screw them up so badly. When M$ introduced UAC with Vista their single aim in life was to peeve off the End Users with UAC Notifications to push them into running as Admin. That's hardly wanted or a good system and leaves the Windows PC's wide open to infection.
So M$'s Overriding Philosophy seems to be Lack of Security by Design and to Hell with the rest.
Where M$ went wrong was to push the idea that any Idiot could use a computer running their software and that business didn't need to pay for Expensive Training for that single person who replaced the Secretarial Pool of yesteryear.
Now that it's blatantly Obvious that those people do need training the companies do not see the need to pay for it to get their workers up to the Minimum Standard that is necessary.
Sop just remember You are not a Highly Qualified Professional you are just a Windows Cleaner.
Col
My understanding is that UAC was more of a love triangle; it was implemented badly to anger the end users who would then direct that anger at third party developers to bring them in line with the new Windows way of doing things. UAC was not meant to anger users into running as administrator but anger them into doing Microsoft's job of convincing third party developers to adopt the newer privileged framework and write software that didn't rely on having admin access.
I agree with having developers update code to behave under the improved security model but I don't at all agree with using end users as puppet activists to drive that change.
They could have implemented it far better given that they can and do afford some of the best developers in the world; even if they then cripple them with management decisions and infighting. I also think it was shameful that Microsoft was forced to soften the security model to appease AV companies who didn't want to update there own products. Boo Hoo.. Symantec would have had to rewrite part of it's AV engine rather than rely on legacy hooks frequently exploited by malware.
I agree with having developers update code to behave under the improved security model but I don't at all agree with using end users as puppet activists to drive that change.
They could have implemented it far better given that they can and do afford some of the best developers in the world; even if they then cripple them with management decisions and infighting. I also think it was shameful that Microsoft was forced to soften the security model to appease AV companies who didn't want to update there own products. Boo Hoo.. Symantec would have had to rewrite part of it's AV engine rather than rely on legacy hooks frequently exploited by malware.
Windows, Icons, Menus, Pointer; GUI is all pointy clicky and neither Windows UI nor the osX UI really changes that. It may take a day to get used to the new colours and icons but beyond that, it's not like suddenly working in a foreign language. From winXP, switching to osX is no greater change than switching to Vista or Win7.
The bigger difference for users is the applications; if you can get the same app for Windows or osX then the rest of it is a big whoopty-do.
And, if your issues are only ever with the users then you should consider improving your training practices. You should also consider yourself extremely lucky given how many IT shops do have issues caused by the software rather than lack of user training.
The bigger difference for users is the applications; if you can get the same app for Windows or osX then the rest of it is a big whoopty-do.
And, if your issues are only ever with the users then you should consider improving your training practices. You should also consider yourself extremely lucky given how many IT shops do have issues caused by the software rather than lack of user training.
First, spelling it "crapple" really only detracts from any valid points you might make just like "M$" and similar childish miss-spellings.
Also, one does not usually use a mouse all by itself; pressing the command key while clicking isn't the end of civilization as we know it. Oh nos!! I hass to pushes an extra key when I clickses!! I cants just clickses the other mouse buttonzes!!
Oh wait.. but I can.. plug in any USB multi button mouse and osX will work perfectly fine with it; right click, left click, scroll wheel.. what's your problem with the mouse again?
Not plug/n/play with printers. It's called "CUPS" and it includes PnP support fur a large number of modern printers. That's kind of Apple's thing; you just plug your USB printer in and tadaaa "it just works" (tm). The Apple we have in the office hasn't any trouble hitting the big network printers either by the way.
You've never seen Apple's desktops used in a real work environment? Never worked in desktop publishing or other graphic deisgn related business areas I take it? Never seen Apple's notebooks used in a real work environment? They call it an "executive suite".. the folks up there often have the authority to tell IT "my shnazzy new Mac is great; make it work with our company network." You'll also spot them infront of web developers and various high level research labs among other places.
I'm no Apple cheerleader or attending member of the "Church of the Worshipers of the Edible Rose Bud" but wow man.. you need to update your information before you go forum trolling.. at least put some effort into making it sound like you know the topic.
Also, one does not usually use a mouse all by itself; pressing the command key while clicking isn't the end of civilization as we know it. Oh nos!! I hass to pushes an extra key when I clickses!! I cants just clickses the other mouse buttonzes!!
Oh wait.. but I can.. plug in any USB multi button mouse and osX will work perfectly fine with it; right click, left click, scroll wheel.. what's your problem with the mouse again?
Not plug/n/play with printers. It's called "CUPS" and it includes PnP support fur a large number of modern printers. That's kind of Apple's thing; you just plug your USB printer in and tadaaa "it just works" (tm). The Apple we have in the office hasn't any trouble hitting the big network printers either by the way.
You've never seen Apple's desktops used in a real work environment? Never worked in desktop publishing or other graphic deisgn related business areas I take it? Never seen Apple's notebooks used in a real work environment? They call it an "executive suite".. the folks up there often have the authority to tell IT "my shnazzy new Mac is great; make it work with our company network." You'll also spot them infront of web developers and various high level research labs among other places.
I'm no Apple cheerleader or attending member of the "Church of the Worshipers of the Edible Rose Bud" but wow man.. you need to update your information before you go forum trolling.. at least put some effort into making it sound like you know the topic.
All over the world use macs. I'll place my MacPro (out of box - no goodies added) against ANY PC on the market and it will blow it away in PS, Lightroom, Quark, and about anything else you want to throw at me.
Over 15+ years running macs, back as far as Panther and NOT ONE DAY of downtime - no blusecree, no re-format the HD, nothing!
Simple, elegant and rock-solid continuity.
Over 15+ years running macs, back as far as Panther and NOT ONE DAY of downtime - no blusecree, no re-format the HD, nothing!
Simple, elegant and rock-solid continuity.
Won't it be hard to pit your osX machine "out of the box" against any other OS machine unless PS, Lightroom and Quark come factory installed before purchase?
(I couldn't resist )
(I couldn't resist
)
Again, I'll grant the fact that the MAC can handle graphics apps well... but they only gained their superiority in THAT market due to the ABSOLUTE FACT (AND I WAS AN IBM DESIGN ENGINEER AT THE TIME) THAT IBM SUFFERED A MAJOR BRAIN FART IN THEIR CHOICE TO IGNORE THAT MARKET AS INITIALLY NOT WORTH THEIR TIME - HOWEVER, SINCE THEY STARTED OPENING THEIR EYES 10-20 YEARS AFTER I WAS BASICALLY SCREAMING IN PRODUCT PLANNING MEETINGS THAT THIS WAS A MARKET ABOUT TO EXPLODE BEYOND THE HANDWRITTEN CUE CARDS AND HAND DRAWN FLIP FRAMES IN USE TO CREATE "MOVING VIDEO" (During the Time I was a Licensed Broadcast Engineer for what is now the FOX Network) WHEN APPLE CAME OUT WITH THEIR GRAPHIC DESIGN TOOLS - AND ALL THE VARIOUS IBM DEVELOPERS AND HARDWARE ENGINEERS WERE LOCKED IN THAT BRAIN DEAD LOOP WHERE THEY REFUSED TO EVEN CONSIDER THE IDEA THAT THERE WAS ANY FUTURE IN COMPUTER GENERATED VIDEO GRAPHICS - BOTTOM LINE IS THAT IBM AND THEIR PARTNERS MADE AN INEXCUSABLE DECISION TO IGNORE AN EMERGING MARKET THAT PROVIDED APPLE/MAC WITH A WIDE OPEN PROD DEVELOPMENT PATH WITH NO COMPETITION FROM ANYONE WHO PRESENTED ANY MORE THREAT THAN PERHAPS "PEE WEE HERMAN" or some other similar type character...
Go figure - and then if you hold stock in IBM, etc - put together a class action lawsuit and clean them out for every damn nickel you can squeeze out of the morons, ok..??
Go figure - and then if you hold stock in IBM, etc - put together a class action lawsuit and clean them out for every damn nickel you can squeeze out of the morons, ok..??
It would be very easy to remove the all caps in my response - but all the fruit flies floating around out here seem to have serious hearing loss whenever anyone points out the obvious to them - they seem to notice a couple of the words at least when they're in CAPS !!! And again - I admire the hell out of the capabilities of the fruit platform when it comes to graphics applications - even as a career IBM man - but they're even losing ground in that arena at a breathtaking speed to PC based platforms - and they certainly have NEXT TO NOTHING TO OFF in the way of any other type of business applications...
And again - I admire the hell out of the capabilities of the fruit platform when it comes to graphics applications - even as a career IBM man - but they're even losing ground in that arena at a breathtaking speed to PC based platforms - and they certainly have NEXT TO NOTHING TO OFF in the way of any other type of business applications...
Calling Apple users "Fruits" with obvious derogatory intent may not be the best way to make any valid points you are trying to share. The all caps and lack of paragraphing isn't helping your case much either.
Right now your kind of just coming off like a fanboy loud and threatened by someone preferring a different OS. If you've got solid points to raise, you might think about presenting them differently.
(This from someone who's preferred OS is neither Windows or osX. I don't much care which OS you prefer over the others.)
Right now your kind of just coming off like a fanboy loud and threatened by someone preferring a different OS. If you've got solid points to raise, you might think about presenting them differently.
(This from someone who's preferred OS is neither Windows or osX. I don't much care which OS you prefer over the others.)
I meant no disrespect by the use of the term "fruits" in referring to the Apple fans - and in reality, I'm a MUCH bigger fan of any and all versions of Unix, Linux, etc - than I am of either Windows or Steve's OsX in all it's weak flavors...
My only point there is that he fell into a lucky niche that the PC Platform was foolish enough to dismiss FAR too quickly - as you would have realized had you paid closer attention to the content of my earlier posts...
Personally, I - like you claim - am no fan of either of the Windows OR Apple/Mac platforms - I just get a wee bit riled by all those out here who think that the Apple/Mac platform is the ONLY viable option - despite the fact that they only hold a slight superiority in the 10-20% of the commercial market based solely on the graphics capability of their platform - while failing sooo miserably in the remaining 80-90% of commercial applications...
Sorry if I offended you in ANY way with the presentation of such an obvious set of facts...
Have a great night... and a wonderful holiday season...
Ron
My only point there is that he fell into a lucky niche that the PC Platform was foolish enough to dismiss FAR too quickly - as you would have realized had you paid closer attention to the content of my earlier posts...
Personally, I - like you claim - am no fan of either of the Windows OR Apple/Mac platforms - I just get a wee bit riled by all those out here who think that the Apple/Mac platform is the ONLY viable option - despite the fact that they only hold a slight superiority in the 10-20% of the commercial market based solely on the graphics capability of their platform - while failing sooo miserably in the remaining 80-90% of commercial applications...
Sorry if I offended you in ANY way with the presentation of such an obvious set of facts...
Have a great night... and a wonderful holiday season...
Ron
I was simply less interested in responding to the content due to the appearance of hostility in them.
"
My only point there is that he fell into a lucky niche that the PC Platform was foolish enough to dismiss FAR too quickly - as you would have realized had you paid closer attention to the content of my earlier posts...
"
With the all-caps yelling and deriding tone.. can you blame anyone for no "paid closer attention"-ing?
Apple's reason for success is speculation and history. I think Microsoft did far more to exploit business opportunities. Mr Wozniak designed and sold computer mainboards because it was fun and hobbyists kept asking for them. He delivered the first personal computer in a wood case with the shape common to PCs still. Mr Jobs has always been a brilliant salesman and thanks to a third party investor; they started the personal computer market. Regardless of what one thinks of Apple's recent behavior, the company did earn it's place in the beginnings of computer history. The fact that they organized an official tour of the PARC facilities rather than stealing the technology doesn't hurt either.
"
Personally, I - like you claim - am no fan of either of the Windows OR Apple/Mac platforms - I just get a wee bit riled by all those out here who think that the Apple/Mac platform is the ONLY viable option - despite the fact that they only hold a slight superiority in the 10-20% of the commercial market based solely on the graphics capability of their platform - while failing sooo miserably in the remaining 80-90% of commercial applications...
"
I think market share only measures retail success and includes many variables unrelated to the actual product. I'm not going to claim that any machine is not a viable option based on it not having majority retail market share. In terms of what applications are lacking; we'd need to be more specific and sure there was not an alternative program that provided the same functionality.
Personally, I see them lacking in centralized management but MS-LDAP (Active Directory) is only ever going to work well with Windows client nodes. The only part of the LDAP a non-Windows system will make use of is authentication; it works though. We don't have any CAD/CAM in the office but software does not seem to be lacking:
http://www.pure-mac.com/cad.html
Even if a specific CAD brand name is missing.
I simply wouldn't be so quick to dismiss osX based on market share or a specific missing brand name. For personal use, sure.. claiming my needs represent anyone else.. not so sure..
"
My only point there is that he fell into a lucky niche that the PC Platform was foolish enough to dismiss FAR too quickly - as you would have realized had you paid closer attention to the content of my earlier posts...
"
With the all-caps yelling and deriding tone.. can you blame anyone for no "paid closer attention"-ing?
Apple's reason for success is speculation and history. I think Microsoft did far more to exploit business opportunities. Mr Wozniak designed and sold computer mainboards because it was fun and hobbyists kept asking for them. He delivered the first personal computer in a wood case with the shape common to PCs still. Mr Jobs has always been a brilliant salesman and thanks to a third party investor; they started the personal computer market. Regardless of what one thinks of Apple's recent behavior, the company did earn it's place in the beginnings of computer history. The fact that they organized an official tour of the PARC facilities rather than stealing the technology doesn't hurt either.
"
Personally, I - like you claim - am no fan of either of the Windows OR Apple/Mac platforms - I just get a wee bit riled by all those out here who think that the Apple/Mac platform is the ONLY viable option - despite the fact that they only hold a slight superiority in the 10-20% of the commercial market based solely on the graphics capability of their platform - while failing sooo miserably in the remaining 80-90% of commercial applications...
"
I think market share only measures retail success and includes many variables unrelated to the actual product. I'm not going to claim that any machine is not a viable option based on it not having majority retail market share. In terms of what applications are lacking; we'd need to be more specific and sure there was not an alternative program that provided the same functionality.
Personally, I see them lacking in centralized management but MS-LDAP (Active Directory) is only ever going to work well with Windows client nodes. The only part of the LDAP a non-Windows system will make use of is authentication; it works though. We don't have any CAD/CAM in the office but software does not seem to be lacking:
http://www.pure-mac.com/cad.html
Even if a specific CAD brand name is missing.
I simply wouldn't be so quick to dismiss osX based on market share or a specific missing brand name. For personal use, sure.. claiming my needs represent anyone else.. not so sure..
I don't know what kind of Apple hardware people get in US, but in the UK (whole Europe, as a matter of fact) the quality of it is very poor and it's been like that for the last 20 years. Simple facts comparison: in the lab of 10 Macs within last 3 years each broke down at least twice; another lab, with 200 PCs - within 3 years 2 machines broke down and 3 monitors. The same with mobiles - I've been hammering my HTC for the last two years and not a single problem. During the same period of time my wife's iPhone has been replaced three times, so now she got Samsung.
The OS and software don't matter if you cannot turn your computer on.
The OS and software don't matter if you cannot turn your computer on.
Couldn't have said it better myself - AMEN !!!
But as you're pointing out the crap that Apple pushes out as totally proprietary hardware - DON'T forget to mention that when your 40GB Fruit drive dies it will cost anywhere from 4-8 times as much (if not more) to buy the replacement part versus what the same part would cost if it were being installed into a PC platform machine - and it's NOT just the drives, EVERY SINGLE COMPONENT IN THAT TRASH HARDWARE COSTS NEARLY 10 times what the equivalent parts would cost for any machine that is running in hardware based on the PC platform VS the Apple platform - My 30yrs as a field engineer in the computer industry has proven this to me hundreds of times over.... so pay 5 times as much for what amounts to inferior hardware - then pay 10 times the cost for replacement parts when the fruit finally rots... You Apple fans must REALLY LOVE your fruit...
But as you're pointing out the crap that Apple pushes out as totally proprietary hardware - DON'T forget to mention that when your 40GB Fruit drive dies it will cost anywhere from 4-8 times as much (if not more) to buy the replacement part versus what the same part would cost if it were being installed into a PC platform machine - and it's NOT just the drives, EVERY SINGLE COMPONENT IN THAT TRASH HARDWARE COSTS NEARLY 10 times what the equivalent parts would cost for any machine that is running in hardware based on the PC platform VS the Apple platform - My 30yrs as a field engineer in the computer industry has proven this to me hundreds of times over.... so pay 5 times as much for what amounts to inferior hardware - then pay 10 times the cost for replacement parts when the fruit finally rots... You Apple fans must REALLY LOVE your fruit...
I have been in IT for over 20 years, and we are mainly a Windows IT Shop, but I have also supported Macs for most of that time on a lesser level. The truth is, Macs are very fast, and very easy to use, and very secure. Our Mac customers pay us half as much in annual support fees because they just don't need as much help, troubleshooting, or break fix.
I honestly think the Mac bashers out there only do so A) because they just don't believe there could be something better than Microsoft (when the truth is, just about everything is better) and they haven't actually tried it, or B) they know if their customers go Mac, they will loose a ton of money.
Very, very few printers won't work on a Mac (and Bonjour is about a million times more successful than any Windows plug and play ever was), and file and share compatibility is absolutely a breeze.
The only time there is a problem with using a Mac is when there is a proprietary application that isn't made for the Mac, that is necessary to the business, like AutoCAD, or Raiser's Edge, etc. But honestly, there are perfectly competent solutions for these roles that ARE made for mac.
Then when you get into home use, it gets even easier... Owning a Mac, an iPhone and an AppleTV makes your digital life so effortless compared to owning a home PC. Apple's iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie, iDVD, AirPlay, AirPrint, all work perfectly right out of the box, and are so intuitive and so wonderful to use, I don't know why anyone would ever want anything else. Nothing beats downloading a song on your iPhone and being able to press one button and having it stream/play to any AirPlay enabled device in your entire house - oh and yes, you can play a video this way also - right from the iPhone.
If you haven't noticed yet, Apple's new AirPlay is HUGE, and it is currently being embraced by the world faster than ipods. A ton of manufacturers are building it into their 2011 hardware. Go out and buy an AirPlay receiver (Denon), and an AirPlay TV, and some AirPlay enabled portable speakers, and get rid of your expensive whole home audio and video system and get rid of your Sonos, and enjoy a more simple, less stressful digital life. Then have a party and watch all your friends ooh and ahh over how awesome your setup is.
I honestly think the Mac bashers out there only do so A) because they just don't believe there could be something better than Microsoft (when the truth is, just about everything is better) and they haven't actually tried it, or B) they know if their customers go Mac, they will loose a ton of money.
Very, very few printers won't work on a Mac (and Bonjour is about a million times more successful than any Windows plug and play ever was), and file and share compatibility is absolutely a breeze.
The only time there is a problem with using a Mac is when there is a proprietary application that isn't made for the Mac, that is necessary to the business, like AutoCAD, or Raiser's Edge, etc. But honestly, there are perfectly competent solutions for these roles that ARE made for mac.
Then when you get into home use, it gets even easier... Owning a Mac, an iPhone and an AppleTV makes your digital life so effortless compared to owning a home PC. Apple's iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie, iDVD, AirPlay, AirPrint, all work perfectly right out of the box, and are so intuitive and so wonderful to use, I don't know why anyone would ever want anything else. Nothing beats downloading a song on your iPhone and being able to press one button and having it stream/play to any AirPlay enabled device in your entire house - oh and yes, you can play a video this way also - right from the iPhone.
If you haven't noticed yet, Apple's new AirPlay is HUGE, and it is currently being embraced by the world faster than ipods. A ton of manufacturers are building it into their 2011 hardware. Go out and buy an AirPlay receiver (Denon), and an AirPlay TV, and some AirPlay enabled portable speakers, and get rid of your expensive whole home audio and video system and get rid of your Sonos, and enjoy a more simple, less stressful digital life. Then have a party and watch all your friends ooh and ahh over how awesome your setup is.
I have used MAC and PC's and I have never seen enough difference in quality to present 2x+ price tag. Take the spanking latest greatest MAC netbook. I know its not called that but that is what it is. Outside of being a little smaller than an acer note book that can be picked up at Walmart for $299 there is nothing that sells me on the product. Yeah the hard drive on the mother board is kind of cool till it goes out. Over all it is an outdated piece of equipment.
The mac mouse is two button and more. It is a multi function mouse. My roller ball scrolls, my side buttons makes all windows smaller and moves them so I can see all the windows at once and pick the one I want. And yes I have left and right mouse buttons with out holding down a keyboard key. Its all in mouse preferences in System preferences. Just set it up the way you want.
Mr Crapple you should buy a Mac and learn how too really use one before you talk about things you no nothing about. But then you would love it and have to through your windows machine in the trash. Just saying!!
Mr Crapple you should buy a Mac and learn how too really use one before you talk about things you no nothing about. But then you would love it and have to through your windows machine in the trash. Just saying!!
The mouse that ships with most MAC's is ok but has one major problem. The little ball you use to scroll up or down gets gummed up easily. It is easily cleaned , but a nuisance. But a MAC can use off the shelf Kensington and Logitech mice. So thus the mouse is not a big issue. I own both PC's and Mac's. I like both for different reasons.
Not true!
My Logitech mouse has five buttons plus an LED. These can be configured under software.
Using the wheel, I can scroll either vertically OR horizontally. I can cause the LED to light whenever I have incoming mail.
I can physically cause the scroll wheel to "cog" or to roll smoothly (probably can do this ONE feature with a Mac!).
It is also wireless, ergonomically comfortable and doesn't gobble batteries.
Don't tell me that this is too much for a mouse to do! Oh, I almost forgot---There is no ball to get gummed up - only a high precision laser!
Dave
My Logitech mouse has five buttons plus an LED. These can be configured under software.
Using the wheel, I can scroll either vertically OR horizontally. I can cause the LED to light whenever I have incoming mail.
I can physically cause the scroll wheel to "cog" or to roll smoothly (probably can do this ONE feature with a Mac!).
It is also wireless, ergonomically comfortable and doesn't gobble batteries.
Don't tell me that this is too much for a mouse to do! Oh, I almost forgot---There is no ball to get gummed up - only a high precision laser!
Dave
I just feel it necessary to jump in here and give my 2 cents. Because so many of you say Apple is secure or more secure than a windows box, from my personal experience, working with and having to crack into more than a few... I can tell you Apple has some major flaws (just like any other system) if you have physical access or know how. Be it a Windows machine can take longer, and a non properly secured *nix box is a joke to get into.
What about updating and deploying software? I think there are more and easier ways using Windows. Just my 2 cents.
What about updating and deploying software? I think there are more and easier ways using Windows. Just my 2 cents.
Do you mean that when a service pack comes out you have to pay $60 for it because they gave it a name and just didn't call it a service pack
Frostyone,
You very clearly do not know what you are talking about. I have to support both Macs and Windows computers, and I love my custom built Win 7 comp at home.
The apple OS interface with hardware is much more efficiant then windows. It is Deff true that after a few years, a defrag just wont cut it anymore.
In the tech industry, most IT admins made a regular habit of setting up their windows machine and cloning, to restore after 6 months to a year to get performance back. Windows just gets fragmented over years.
I agree with previous poster RE printing and would prefer seting up printers on a Mac anyday to windows.
Windows, in my opinion has some GREAT management features with an active directory, and with Apples open source projects, you need a steeper learning curve, and not all the server side software is as integrated as windows.
All in all you make yourself sound foolish with your comment. I am a windows fanboy. I love modern warfare on my pc (windows).
I love windows 7 on my macbook pro with 8gb of ram. I love Linux. I love AIX.
Dont be a hater. Break the mold. Stop trolling.
pce and happy holidays!
You very clearly do not know what you are talking about. I have to support both Macs and Windows computers, and I love my custom built Win 7 comp at home.
The apple OS interface with hardware is much more efficiant then windows. It is Deff true that after a few years, a defrag just wont cut it anymore.
In the tech industry, most IT admins made a regular habit of setting up their windows machine and cloning, to restore after 6 months to a year to get performance back. Windows just gets fragmented over years.
I agree with previous poster RE printing and would prefer seting up printers on a Mac anyday to windows.
Windows, in my opinion has some GREAT management features with an active directory, and with Apples open source projects, you need a steeper learning curve, and not all the server side software is as integrated as windows.
All in all you make yourself sound foolish with your comment. I am a windows fanboy. I love modern warfare on my pc (windows).
I love windows 7 on my macbook pro with 8gb of ram. I love Linux. I love AIX.
Dont be a hater. Break the mold. Stop trolling.
pce and happy holidays!
I really dislike having to go all the way to the tool bar to close my apps. The bottom menu bar quickly becomes cluttered and I have problems finding open applications. I really dislike that Windows is going this same direction. I really don't like the Mac interface.
I do not clone my computer and restore. I had to wait 6 months after Snow Leopard was released to get native drivers for a printer. Computer fragmentation is not as big of an issue as people are stating here. Extra applications and full hard drives are more of an issue. I have had experiences with Mac's slowing down after they get too much stuff going on them so that is the same which most of these type of posts say doesn't happen. I know a lady who's Mac has been sitting broken for 2 years because she doesn't know anyone who can fix it and she doesn't want to pay to take it to the Mac store.
Bill
I do not clone my computer and restore. I had to wait 6 months after Snow Leopard was released to get native drivers for a printer. Computer fragmentation is not as big of an issue as people are stating here. Extra applications and full hard drives are more of an issue. I have had experiences with Mac's slowing down after they get too much stuff going on them so that is the same which most of these type of posts say doesn't happen. I know a lady who's Mac has been sitting broken for 2 years because she doesn't know anyone who can fix it and she doesn't want to pay to take it to the Mac store.
Bill
apple-c closes every app that I know.
As for the cluttered app list: windows is worse in my opinion. Especially earlier versions, XP and earlier, every app you opened, even copies of the same one tried to add a new tab on the bottom of the screen. The end result is a whole lot of tabs to the point that you can't read the descriptive label that is supposed to help you find which one has the program you want.
Mac: icons,one per program, if you need to see which one has what you want use expose and presto there it is. I think Windows is moving towards Mac because it is more user friendly not to make things harder for users.
What I disagree with in the article is the, oft repeated, statement that linux, or mac is more secure than Windows. It is all about market share. Even virus writers want market share. So IMHO once Linux, or Mac become a dominant or at least large part of the market you'll see more and more viruses written for them.
A lot of viruses end up on systems because the average user is "dumb" or deceived into thinking something is legitimate when it isn't. This behavior doesn't change because the OS does. People will still click on the "your computer is at risk, we'll remove your virus" screen when running on a Mac, install random crap, open things up because it makes it more convenient for them, etc.
As for the cluttered app list: windows is worse in my opinion. Especially earlier versions, XP and earlier, every app you opened, even copies of the same one tried to add a new tab on the bottom of the screen. The end result is a whole lot of tabs to the point that you can't read the descriptive label that is supposed to help you find which one has the program you want.
Mac: icons,one per program, if you need to see which one has what you want use expose and presto there it is. I think Windows is moving towards Mac because it is more user friendly not to make things harder for users.
What I disagree with in the article is the, oft repeated, statement that linux, or mac is more secure than Windows. It is all about market share. Even virus writers want market share. So IMHO once Linux, or Mac become a dominant or at least large part of the market you'll see more and more viruses written for them.
A lot of viruses end up on systems because the average user is "dumb" or deceived into thinking something is legitimate when it isn't. This behavior doesn't change because the OS does. People will still click on the "your computer is at risk, we'll remove your virus" screen when running on a Mac, install random crap, open things up because it makes it more convenient for them, etc.
Numbers of attack attempts would be related to market share; if your the dominant OS, your going to have more attempts made against you.
"Security" however, measures a system's resistance to those ongoing attacks. Resistance to attack is not related to the number of attempted attacks; market share is not relevant.
One shouldn't care about getting 10 or 50 attempted attacks a day; they should worry about how many fail in the number of attacks they do get.
Market share also does not account for system architecture; how robust the privileged separation mechanism is, how fast the developer responds to discovered vulnerabilities and so on. If osX becomes more popular; maybe Apple keeps up with bug reports, maybe they fall behind in delivering patches. If Ubuntu becomes more popular; maybe Canonical delivers more secure default settings, maybe they don't. Other Linux based distributions; depends on the distirbution, Debian won't become swiss cheese no matter how insecure Canonical make's Ubuntu's default settings.
In terms of OS security (resistance to whatever amount of attacks are attempted), the systems falling closer to the Unix design philosophy have a pretty strong advantage; though, that doesn't mean the relevant vendor can't leave them configured wide open.
"Security" however, measures a system's resistance to those ongoing attacks. Resistance to attack is not related to the number of attempted attacks; market share is not relevant.
One shouldn't care about getting 10 or 50 attempted attacks a day; they should worry about how many fail in the number of attacks they do get.
Market share also does not account for system architecture; how robust the privileged separation mechanism is, how fast the developer responds to discovered vulnerabilities and so on. If osX becomes more popular; maybe Apple keeps up with bug reports, maybe they fall behind in delivering patches. If Ubuntu becomes more popular; maybe Canonical delivers more secure default settings, maybe they don't. Other Linux based distributions; depends on the distirbution, Debian won't become swiss cheese no matter how insecure Canonical make's Ubuntu's default settings.
In terms of OS security (resistance to whatever amount of attacks are attempted), the systems falling closer to the Unix design philosophy have a pretty strong advantage; though, that doesn't mean the relevant vendor can't leave them configured wide open.
I never tire of refuting this tired old argument.
There are enough Macs out there that if they were equally vulnerable to attack , they would be under attack. The bad guys absolutely do not target specific numbers, they targte vulnerabilities. If say a Mac could be zombified to spew out spam or ddos, they would. I know a lot of Macs that have absolutely no AV software or firewall on them. They should be fresh meat for the bad guys. In fact so many run that way, that Macs should be the preferred target. Millions of messed up Macs would be all that is needed.
Saying it's based on market share is either denial or delusion.
There are enough Macs out there that if they were equally vulnerable to attack , they would be under attack. The bad guys absolutely do not target specific numbers, they targte vulnerabilities. If say a Mac could be zombified to spew out spam or ddos, they would. I know a lot of Macs that have absolutely no AV software or firewall on them. They should be fresh meat for the bad guys. In fact so many run that way, that Macs should be the preferred target. Millions of messed up Macs would be all that is needed.
Saying it's based on market share is either denial or delusion.
Agreed. It's resistance to attack not market share or number or attempted attacks that makes a real difference. I wasn't even talking in terms of any specific OS.
I didn't think about keyboard shortcuts, but I still have to have the window active and go to the top of the screen to select any menu options.
Yes, you have one icon for an application, but when I have several safari windows open I can not choose one over the other (windows 7 does have functionality along this line, but I still prefer the XP style). I click on Safari and then have to switch between open windows.
I also dislike that the bottom tool bar on Mac's have programs that are not running. I really like the quick launch in XP (and removed in Win 7) for quick access to common programs then having a separate bar for running programs. I am not bashing Mac's, these are just things that I personally dislike about the interface. There are probably a lot of people that love these features and think the XP interface sucks.
Bill
edited to add last paragraph
Yes, you have one icon for an application, but when I have several safari windows open I can not choose one over the other (windows 7 does have functionality along this line, but I still prefer the XP style). I click on Safari and then have to switch between open windows.
I also dislike that the bottom tool bar on Mac's have programs that are not running. I really like the quick launch in XP (and removed in Win 7) for quick access to common programs then having a separate bar for running programs. I am not bashing Mac's, these are just things that I personally dislike about the interface. There are probably a lot of people that love these features and think the XP interface sucks.
Bill
edited to add last paragraph
I much prefer to use multiple desktops or I move my taskbar to the side of my screen so it has more room
Also, Mac's for the longest time, didn't even have a task bar or anything of the like.
In XP, you can group anything you want, control + click the tabs, then right click and say add to group.
This does not work in Win7 cause MS fancies removing useful features so they can imitate Mac.
Also, Mac's for the longest time, didn't even have a task bar or anything of the like.
In XP, you can group anything you want, control + click the tabs, then right click and say add to group.
This does not work in Win7 cause MS fancies removing useful features so they can imitate Mac.
We use office 2003 and we have mail merge documents that have form fields in them. You have to have the document protected to interact with the form fields. In Word 2007 you can not longer protect a mail merge document. This breaks about 50 documents that we use on a daily bases. Good one Microsoft!
Bill
Bill
Full on Mac server X envioronments running the entire Mac domain structure, including Windows Active D, fileshares and the like.
They exist and honestly - you're about 25 years in the past if you think Apple machines and servers can't touch Windows land...
amazingly ignorant response.
Printers from Canon, HP, Epson, Fujitsu, Xerox and Brother - including high-end collating monsters, all work in Mac.
Plug something in - no disc required, Mac recognizes it out of the box and you're ready in seconds to grab pics, video, music and the like.
Add inherent Firewire, USB 3.0, HDMI and the best built-in WiFi (very easy to use) - and not to mention can dual or triple boot (Mac, Win and Ubuntu) with it's eyes closed.
Not one day or one dime spent on A/V, AntiMalware/Spyware or any other crap software that bloats and ultimately slows down PC's - ever !
They exist and honestly - you're about 25 years in the past if you think Apple machines and servers can't touch Windows land...
amazingly ignorant response.
Printers from Canon, HP, Epson, Fujitsu, Xerox and Brother - including high-end collating monsters, all work in Mac.
Plug something in - no disc required, Mac recognizes it out of the box and you're ready in seconds to grab pics, video, music and the like.
Add inherent Firewire, USB 3.0, HDMI and the best built-in WiFi (very easy to use) - and not to mention can dual or triple boot (Mac, Win and Ubuntu) with it's eyes closed.
Not one day or one dime spent on A/V, AntiMalware/Spyware or any other crap software that bloats and ultimately slows down PC's - ever !
I have worked with as Xerox printer that was "Mac compatible". After reading the docs it specifically stated that scanning to the desktop was a Windows only function. This was a printer purchased from a vendor that supports Mac's specifically for a Mac (no other computers print to this device). The solution was to have it scan to a Widows share (I don't open shares on individual computers) and have the user access the doc there. The printer is about 2 years old. And yes, I had to put a CD in before it would print per documentation. The Mac was running 10.5.
Bill
Bill
You're ignorance regarding the Apple computer is evident. I administer both platforms and the Windows users go through h3ll. Fortunately for them, they just don't know any better.
1. Fascinating that a person writes about "Fanboy" articles and then calls "Apple" a clever scatological name.
2. Seriously, one button mouse? I'll assume ignorance on your part. Which particular one button mouse is it you are referring to? Even that mistake aside, a standard two button USB mouse just plugs right in, and works just fine. It's a terribly flawed argument, like saying a windows machine is no good because some have on the motherboard video. You just buy what you need.
3. Plug and play with old printers? Yes, there is an area in which Windows has excelled. Remember when people were looking at scrapping their entire computing end user infrastructure if they wanted to go with Vista? I looked at upgrading systems where the user would have to buy a new computer, a new printer, a new scanner, just to upgrade and do what they were already doing.
I've been using both platforms since the '90s. As real a work environment as it gets. The Apples are a whole lot less trouble.
2. Seriously, one button mouse? I'll assume ignorance on your part. Which particular one button mouse is it you are referring to? Even that mistake aside, a standard two button USB mouse just plugs right in, and works just fine. It's a terribly flawed argument, like saying a windows machine is no good because some have on the motherboard video. You just buy what you need.
3. Plug and play with old printers? Yes, there is an area in which Windows has excelled. Remember when people were looking at scrapping their entire computing end user infrastructure if they wanted to go with Vista? I looked at upgrading systems where the user would have to buy a new computer, a new printer, a new scanner, just to upgrade and do what they were already doing.
I've been using both platforms since the '90s. As real a work environment as it gets. The Apples are a whole lot less trouble.
Well yes.. and one way an administrator better protect against malware and reduce support costs and time is by using an OS less susceptible to Windows malware. By suggesting a different OS which also meets the needs of the users, the administrator is protecting against malware. Using a different OS is a strategy to prevent productivity loss due to malware.
"
Visual Studio and the .net Framework with a lot of free tools, resources and documentation are part of one of the best development environments nowadays, a big need to companies becoming very cheap to achieve local software needs. And the Objective-C is terrible to develop.
"
The cost of Studio.NET licenses per developer plus the time for those developers to design, write test and maintain custom inhouse built software; this is going to reduce budget expenses is it?
Don't get me wrong though. I'd have focused on the lack of MS-LDAP support for existing Win server/client LDAP setups (Active Directory) and Apple's rather sad history around transparency and bug patching. I mean sure, osX is a Unix but one still needs to be open about bug reports and quick about providing patches for those bugs.
"
Visual Studio and the .net Framework with a lot of free tools, resources and documentation are part of one of the best development environments nowadays, a big need to companies becoming very cheap to achieve local software needs. And the Objective-C is terrible to develop.
"
The cost of Studio.NET licenses per developer plus the time for those developers to design, write test and maintain custom inhouse built software; this is going to reduce budget expenses is it?
Don't get me wrong though. I'd have focused on the lack of MS-LDAP support for existing Win server/client LDAP setups (Active Directory) and Apple's rather sad history around transparency and bug patching. I mean sure, osX is a Unix but one still needs to be open about bug reports and quick about providing patches for those bugs.
I'm sure you've never heard about Microsoft's iniciatives on free devevelopment tools (VS Express), programs to starters and MSDN subscriptions!
The .net development is so far the easiest way to beginners, with free and powerfull tools, large documentation, participative communities, great languageS (plural) and so on...
I've never heard about Apple in colleges and also never mid-size companies with no need for software development.
The .net development is so far the easiest way to beginners, with free and powerfull tools, large documentation, participative communities, great languageS (plural) and so on...
I've never heard about Apple in colleges and also never mid-size companies with no need for software development.
MSDN subscriptions cost money. You'll also need to pay attention to if the license allows the MSDN lab software to be used for business production. They did just reduce the number of installs per license to ten or so because too many people where running 10+ workstation businesses.. that'd make me reconfirm the license permissions.
While MS does have a free version of Studio.. how much are they charging for the full install? Do you not pay your developers while writing all that business software your going to run the office with?
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I've never heard about Apple in colleges and also never mid-size companies with no need for software development.
"
"software development" may be the real question; does that mean tossing together some macro and scripting behind Office documents or actually doing full blown applications? "have not seen in school" may depend on your location, they are not remotely uncommon in schools around these parts and much of the US.
While MS does have a free version of Studio.. how much are they charging for the full install? Do you not pay your developers while writing all that business software your going to run the office with?
"
I've never heard about Apple in colleges and also never mid-size companies with no need for software development.
"
"software development" may be the real question; does that mean tossing together some macro and scripting behind Office documents or actually doing full blown applications? "have not seen in school" may depend on your location, they are not remotely uncommon in schools around these parts and much of the US.
Most of your comments about the Mac's high cost are in error. Yes, the up front price is higher, but that's due to significantly higher quality of the components on the circuit boards that Apple designs. And before you argue that these are exactly the same components as seen on all other boards, I might note that, like the author, I have personal experience with Apple's ordering and QA requirements on things as basic as resistors, capacitors and inductors. Their specifications are so tight that they will reject entire shipments if as few as 0.01% of the components are out of spec. Such tight requirements and their designs themselves are just two reasons why Macs tend to perform better and last longer.
"... its hardware and OS are very nice, but where it can be enbedded in companys with no need of powerfull workstations for users?" For those with no need of a powerful workstation, a Mac Mini or an iMac might be the perfect tool. On average they carry a much smaller footprint than a PC and simply eliminates the dust contamination of a floor-standing tower that most enterprise offices still use.
Quite honestly, a Mac Mini is all the PC that's needed in the majority of enterprise uses. It's powerful enough to drive two decent displays and has all the capability needed to perform the majority of Office tasks. Yes, maybe an 'equivalent' PC might perform better by spec , but in real-world operations, the Mini doesn't lose that performance over time.
"PCs with Windows 7 in a very refined network is still the best approach..." Perhaps so, but you ignore the fact that Macs can and do run Windows as well, either through virtualization or dual-booting. It's easy to set Windows as the default boot OS which would let the Mac be nothing more than another Windows machine. However, you still get the benefits of the Mac's improved performance even in Windows, as demonstrated by the Mac almost always listed as the best-performing Windows PC against equivalent models.
But that's not the only thing. OS X can easily join a Windows network and access files and printers as natively as Windows itself. There's really no reason to believe that Windows is superior for networking any more; whether it's Cisco or any of the others, a Mac can join it with almost no effort. I won't argue that Windows is the OS that people are used to , but it's not 'natural' to them, only what they learned on. OS X is different from Windows in many ways, but once you get used to the differences, you begin to wonder why Windows forces you through such convoluted processes for simple tasks. I've seen many IT pros try OS X as an experiment and end up converting their entire households within a year.
And this brings up one of your last points: "Visual Studio and the .net Framework with a lot of free tools, resources and documentation are part of one of the best development environments nowadays," Interestingly enough, one former Windows-only developer for dot.net did such an experiment and now only uses his Windows box only to test his applications in IE, using a Mac Pro as his developmental workstation. He blogged his entire experience starting here: http://www.davidalison.com/2008/02/hardcore-windows-guy-switches-to-mac.html
The point is that most of the arguments today is, as the author stated, more emotional than reasoned. Most IT people today are used to the Windows environment and are unwilling to try something different. On top of this, if their company experiences less down time with another platform, that company's need for a large IT staff shrinks as well, potentially costing the jobs of the less-experienced IT staff. Then again, if those newer IT people already have Mac experience, it's quite possible that they would stay and the older, less flexible personnel would be retired instead. Just remember, the person who makes himself indispensable is more likely to be the one disposed of first.
"... its hardware and OS are very nice, but where it can be enbedded in companys with no need of powerfull workstations for users?" For those with no need of a powerful workstation, a Mac Mini or an iMac might be the perfect tool. On average they carry a much smaller footprint than a PC and simply eliminates the dust contamination of a floor-standing tower that most enterprise offices still use.
Quite honestly, a Mac Mini is all the PC that's needed in the majority of enterprise uses. It's powerful enough to drive two decent displays and has all the capability needed to perform the majority of Office tasks. Yes, maybe an 'equivalent' PC might perform better by spec , but in real-world operations, the Mini doesn't lose that performance over time.
"PCs with Windows 7 in a very refined network is still the best approach..." Perhaps so, but you ignore the fact that Macs can and do run Windows as well, either through virtualization or dual-booting. It's easy to set Windows as the default boot OS which would let the Mac be nothing more than another Windows machine. However, you still get the benefits of the Mac's improved performance even in Windows, as demonstrated by the Mac almost always listed as the best-performing Windows PC against equivalent models.
But that's not the only thing. OS X can easily join a Windows network and access files and printers as natively as Windows itself. There's really no reason to believe that Windows is superior for networking any more; whether it's Cisco or any of the others, a Mac can join it with almost no effort. I won't argue that Windows is the OS that people are used to , but it's not 'natural' to them, only what they learned on. OS X is different from Windows in many ways, but once you get used to the differences, you begin to wonder why Windows forces you through such convoluted processes for simple tasks. I've seen many IT pros try OS X as an experiment and end up converting their entire households within a year.
And this brings up one of your last points: "Visual Studio and the .net Framework with a lot of free tools, resources and documentation are part of one of the best development environments nowadays," Interestingly enough, one former Windows-only developer for dot.net did such an experiment and now only uses his Windows box only to test his applications in IE, using a Mac Pro as his developmental workstation. He blogged his entire experience starting here: http://www.davidalison.com/2008/02/hardcore-windows-guy-switches-to-mac.html
The point is that most of the arguments today is, as the author stated, more emotional than reasoned. Most IT people today are used to the Windows environment and are unwilling to try something different. On top of this, if their company experiences less down time with another platform, that company's need for a large IT staff shrinks as well, potentially costing the jobs of the less-experienced IT staff. Then again, if those newer IT people already have Mac experience, it's quite possible that they would stay and the older, less flexible personnel would be retired instead. Just remember, the person who makes himself indispensable is more likely to be the one disposed of first.
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