I just asked 28 CCIEs from many different countries in my network the following questions.
Did the CCIE certification...
Make you a more marketable network engineer?
Increase your salary level?
Increase your salary expectations?
In five lines or less; Is the CCIE certification losing its value?
I am waiting for the responses which I will share with you. Some of these have just earned their CCIE and others have been CCIEs for over 15 years.
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More marketable: yes.
Increase salary level: not really.
Increase your salary expectations: not really.
Losing its value?
I don?t know. I know that it?s losing some reputation. A CCIE is no longer the best of the best; he/she is just really good. Others (CCDE, CCA, VCDX) are more like to be ?the best?. To me personally, CCIE was a painful certification to obtain that?s painful to maintain, with limited recognized benefit to employers unless they are Cisco partners. The only reason I recertified this round was because of how hard it was to pass the lab to begin with. If I had let the certification lapse, it would have had no bearing on my current or future compensation with my current employer. At the same time, I recognize that certain opportunities I?ve heard about I never would have if I was not a CCIE.
Increase salary level: not really.
Increase your salary expectations: not really.
Losing its value?
I don?t know. I know that it?s losing some reputation. A CCIE is no longer the best of the best; he/she is just really good. Others (CCDE, CCA, VCDX) are more like to be ?the best?. To me personally, CCIE was a painful certification to obtain that?s painful to maintain, with limited recognized benefit to employers unless they are Cisco partners. The only reason I recertified this round was because of how hard it was to pass the lab to begin with. If I had let the certification lapse, it would have had no bearing on my current or future compensation with my current employer. At the same time, I recognize that certain opportunities I?ve heard about I never would have if I was not a CCIE.
Did your CCIE make you a more marketable network engineer?
For me, the CCIE certification's primary value has been that when I'm looking for a job, the CCIE opens up more opportunities for interviews for high level positions. It's also opened up opportunities for interviews with companies who benefit from employee certifications, primarily Cisco resellers and consulting companies. However, once you're in an interview it's no longer about the CCIE ? actually landing the job is about experience, technical skills, communications skills, and social skills.
Did your CCIE increase your salary level?
I don't think the CCIE has affected my salary level, but it has helped land interviews for high-level positions.
Did your CCIE increase your salary expectations?
I don't think the CCIE affected my salary expectations, either ? I had pretty high expectations to start with.
In five lines or less; Is the CCIE certification losing its value?
Sometime in the last decade the CCIE certification reached a kind of critical mass. There are enough CCIEs in the job market now that companies can expect to be able to hire one when they're looking for good people. That has increased demand for CCIEs because most network engineering positions now specifically list the CCIE as at least desired, if not a job requirement. However, supply and demand is also at work. With over 20,000 CCIEs and former CCIEs supply is up, putting downward pressure on salaries. A better question might be: has keeping your CCIE certification become more hassle than it's worth?
For me, the CCIE certification's primary value has been that when I'm looking for a job, the CCIE opens up more opportunities for interviews for high level positions. It's also opened up opportunities for interviews with companies who benefit from employee certifications, primarily Cisco resellers and consulting companies. However, once you're in an interview it's no longer about the CCIE ? actually landing the job is about experience, technical skills, communications skills, and social skills.
Did your CCIE increase your salary level?
I don't think the CCIE has affected my salary level, but it has helped land interviews for high-level positions.
Did your CCIE increase your salary expectations?
I don't think the CCIE affected my salary expectations, either ? I had pretty high expectations to start with.
In five lines or less; Is the CCIE certification losing its value?
Sometime in the last decade the CCIE certification reached a kind of critical mass. There are enough CCIEs in the job market now that companies can expect to be able to hire one when they're looking for good people. That has increased demand for CCIEs because most network engineering positions now specifically list the CCIE as at least desired, if not a job requirement. However, supply and demand is also at work. With over 20,000 CCIEs and former CCIEs supply is up, putting downward pressure on salaries. A better question might be: has keeping your CCIE certification become more hassle than it's worth?
It certainly made me a more marketable engineer. I have been getting emails from recruiters on a near daily basis since adding those 4 letters and 5 numbers to my resume. Just like the supply and demand curves are supposed to work, having skills in high demand combined with a relatively low supply of engineers with those skills drives up the price you can expect to receive for your services. Although my current employer did not give me a raise for acquiring the certification, they are cognizant of the differential between my current and expected salary. I would say that it has definitely raised my expectations for the future.
As far as I'm concerned, great engineers are great because of the combination of knowledge with experience. Without one to back the other, it is impossible to be on top of your game. While I can see that there could be some watering down of the cert due to the number of study materials available making it "easier" than in previous years, I strongly believe that the value of the CCIE as a certification is still there. I am sure the "Paper CCIEs" are out there, but in my experience, every CCIE I have met has been a very strong engineer with a wide body of knowledge.
As far as I'm concerned, great engineers are great because of the combination of knowledge with experience. Without one to back the other, it is impossible to be on top of your game. While I can see that there could be some watering down of the cert due to the number of study materials available making it "easier" than in previous years, I strongly believe that the value of the CCIE as a certification is still there. I am sure the "Paper CCIEs" are out there, but in my experience, every CCIE I have met has been a very strong engineer with a wide body of knowledge.
Prime example of why we need to some help with the certification:
[quote name='waqas CCIE#27815' timestamp='1295807605' post='901742']
in troubleshooting section your real life experience could be helpful but i will not say the person having no experience cannot clear it when i attempted lab i was not touch with regular field work means no experience but in configuration section no experience could help you that is only your knowledge which helps you to understand deeply ipv4/ipv6/qos/security/ip services etc these are topics not we usally configure in live environment
Read the quote again, it's bears repeating:
[quote name='waqas CCIE#27815' timestamp='1295807605' post='901742']
in troubleshooting section your real life experience could be helpful but i will not say the person having no experience cannot clear it when i attempted lab i was not touch with regular field work means no experience but in configuration section no experience could help you that is only your knowledge which helps you to understand deeply ipv4/ipv6/qos/security/ip services etc these are topics not we usally configure in live environment
So... what do we configure in a live environment these days anyway?
[quote name='waqas CCIE#27815' timestamp='1295807605' post='901742']
in troubleshooting section your real life experience could be helpful but i will not say the person having no experience cannot clear it when i attempted lab i was not touch with regular field work means no experience but in configuration section no experience could help you that is only your knowledge which helps you to understand deeply ipv4/ipv6/qos/security/ip services etc these are topics not we usally configure in live environment
Read the quote again, it's bears repeating:
[quote name='waqas CCIE#27815' timestamp='1295807605' post='901742']
in troubleshooting section your real life experience could be helpful but i will not say the person having no experience cannot clear it when i attempted lab i was not touch with regular field work means no experience but in configuration section no experience could help you that is only your knowledge which helps you to understand deeply ipv4/ipv6/qos/security/ip services etc these are topics not we usally configure in live environment
So... what do we configure in a live environment these days anyway?
Make you a more marketable network engineer?
It did give me more confidence when interviewing which carried forth in my efforts to find employment.
I believe that it was a dual edged sword in some cases. For some positions I was flat out told that I was overqualified and would get bored and leave so they didn't hire me. On the other hand, it did get me in the door where I didn't get any call backs before.
Increase your salary level?
This is a definite yes.
Increase your salary expectations?
Yes.
In five lines or less; Is the CCIE certification losing its value?
I believe that the CCIE cert is still a valuable certification to have on the resume. Over time, with "tools" out there for CCIE preparation, a case could be made that passing is easier than 8-10 years ago which some feel devalues the certification overall. I feel that the value of the cert rests on the individual that represents it. In my role a a supervisor and hiring authority, I value the CCIE certification and feel that it still shows the individuals desire and drive to learn and prove their skills.
It did give me more confidence when interviewing which carried forth in my efforts to find employment.
I believe that it was a dual edged sword in some cases. For some positions I was flat out told that I was overqualified and would get bored and leave so they didn't hire me. On the other hand, it did get me in the door where I didn't get any call backs before.
Increase your salary level?
This is a definite yes.
Increase your salary expectations?
Yes.
In five lines or less; Is the CCIE certification losing its value?
I believe that the CCIE cert is still a valuable certification to have on the resume. Over time, with "tools" out there for CCIE preparation, a case could be made that passing is easier than 8-10 years ago which some feel devalues the certification overall. I feel that the value of the cert rests on the individual that represents it. In my role a a supervisor and hiring authority, I value the CCIE certification and feel that it still shows the individuals desire and drive to learn and prove their skills.
It has certainly helped me. But there can only be a few low numbered CCIEs, so my case isn't the general case.
I think that CCIE status still has value. If not in higher salary, it should help in longevity. When reducing staff, do you keep the CCIE or non-CCIE, all other factors being equal?
I think that CCIE status still has value. If not in higher salary, it should help in longevity. When reducing staff, do you keep the CCIE or non-CCIE, all other factors being equal?
No I dont think CCIE certifications are losing value but are increasing their importance every single day. I passed CCIE in 2007 and straight forward I got a very nice salary. All Network related requirements now a days ask for a CCIE certifications and I guess people now understand what is the value of CCIE and what they can do. However certain tracks of CCIE people say are saturated eg. R&S but mainly they are in very high demand than other CCIE tracks. So the final verdict according to me is - CCIE gains importance every single day.
Make you a more marketable network engineer?
Without a doubt - yes.
Increase your salary level?
Yes - it was part of a structured training programme and career progression.
Increase your salary expectations?
Not at first, but after I'd got used to the salary, I did realise I could ask for more without being too shy.
In five lines or less; Is the CCIE certification losing its value?
I beleive not. There are more tracks for the CCIE now, but there are also more technologoes that Cisco provide and they need to show engineer ability within each and the CCIE is a prime example of how to do that. I do also beleive that there are tiers of ability within the CCIE and the best talent always rises to the top.
Without a doubt - yes.
Increase your salary level?
Yes - it was part of a structured training programme and career progression.
Increase your salary expectations?
Not at first, but after I'd got used to the salary, I did realise I could ask for more without being too shy.
In five lines or less; Is the CCIE certification losing its value?
I beleive not. There are more tracks for the CCIE now, but there are also more technologoes that Cisco provide and they need to show engineer ability within each and the CCIE is a prime example of how to do that. I do also beleive that there are tiers of ability within the CCIE and the best talent always rises to the top.
Absolutely it made me more marketable.
When I got my first CCIE, there was a salary jump. For the others, not really. But it was increased marketing and bonus potential more than direct salary.
I suppose. But I'd probably expect something similar based on quantity and quality of experience as well. Not really sure how to answer that as it is obviously not applying since I've been a CCIE for almost 12 years now.
Is the certification losing its value?
I suppose it depends on your perspective. I think that it's becoming a piece of information that possessing the CCIE ALONE will not magically get you anything. Personally, I don't think it ever SHOULD have, but did. So the CCIE is still as important as ever, it's just that the market seems to be correcting it's blind follow/worship of those with the certification and looking for more realistic and tangible things to go with it.
So for qualified CCIE's, no, there's absolutely no degradation. If you just got your CCIE "certification" and nothing else to go with it, the perceived value of "magical wand" for employment has gone away. It's a correction, not a loss of value.
Side note: In the late 1990's, everyone had this inane idea that it was awesome to invest in technology companies who made absolutely no profit, and in some cases, actually no product either! When reality set in, and people realized what a ridiculous situation they had gotten themselves into, the market corrected. Some called it a "dot-com crash", others just said the "bubble burst". I suppose ones feelings on that situation would depend on whether they lost lots of money or knew when to pull out! Same logic...
When I got my first CCIE, there was a salary jump. For the others, not really. But it was increased marketing and bonus potential more than direct salary.
I suppose. But I'd probably expect something similar based on quantity and quality of experience as well. Not really sure how to answer that as it is obviously not applying since I've been a CCIE for almost 12 years now.
Is the certification losing its value?
I suppose it depends on your perspective. I think that it's becoming a piece of information that possessing the CCIE ALONE will not magically get you anything. Personally, I don't think it ever SHOULD have, but did. So the CCIE is still as important as ever, it's just that the market seems to be correcting it's blind follow/worship of those with the certification and looking for more realistic and tangible things to go with it.
So for qualified CCIE's, no, there's absolutely no degradation. If you just got your CCIE "certification" and nothing else to go with it, the perceived value of "magical wand" for employment has gone away. It's a correction, not a loss of value.
Side note: In the late 1990's, everyone had this inane idea that it was awesome to invest in technology companies who made absolutely no profit, and in some cases, actually no product either! When reality set in, and people realized what a ridiculous situation they had gotten themselves into, the market corrected. Some called it a "dot-com crash", others just said the "bubble burst". I suppose ones feelings on that situation would depend on whether they lost lots of money or knew when to pull out!
Same logic...
Make you a more marketable network engineer?
Yes
Increase your salary level?
Yes
Increase your salary expectations?
Yes
In five lines or less; Is the CCIE certification losing its value?
No, companies I deal with still hold the cert in high regard
Yes
Increase your salary level?
Yes
Increase your salary expectations?
Yes
In five lines or less; Is the CCIE certification losing its value?
No, companies I deal with still hold the cert in high regard
As a young engineer, passing the CCIE exam gave me instant credibility and allowed me to more than double my salary within six months.
Maintaining my certification over the last twelve years has reinforced my standing in the industry. Passing this exam immediately opens up doors in the partner community, while consistently recertifying shows the commitment to life-long learning that all employers desire of their employees.
Maintaining my certification over the last twelve years has reinforced my standing in the industry. Passing this exam immediately opens up doors in the partner community, while consistently recertifying shows the commitment to life-long learning that all employers desire of their employees.
CCIE has still its value at least in the US.But you need to have enough experience along with your certifications .Some companies need CCIEs to increase their credit in front of their clients and some need CCIEs to get cisco partnerships .So there are still jobs which ccie is a must for them and consequently the role has a higher salary.
Prime example of why we need to some help with the certification:
[quote name='waqas CCIE#27815' timestamp='1295807605' post='901742']
in troubleshooting section your real life experience could be helpful but i will not say the person having no experience cannot clear it when i attempted lab i was not touch with regular field work means no experience but in configuration section no experience could help you that is only your knowledge which helps you to understand deeply ipv4/ipv6/qos/security/ip services etc these are topics not we usally configure in live environment
Read the quote again, it's bears repeating:
[quote name='waqas CCIE#27815' timestamp='1295807605' post='901742']
in troubleshooting section your real life experience could be helpful but i will not say the person having no experience cannot clear it when i attempted lab i was not touch with regular field work means no experience but in configuration section no experience could help you that is only your knowledge which helps you to understand deeply ipv4/ipv6/qos/security/ip services etc these are topics not we usally configure in live environment
So... what do we configure in a live environment these days anyway?
[quote name='waqas CCIE#27815' timestamp='1295807605' post='901742']
in troubleshooting section your real life experience could be helpful but i will not say the person having no experience cannot clear it when i attempted lab i was not touch with regular field work means no experience but in configuration section no experience could help you that is only your knowledge which helps you to understand deeply ipv4/ipv6/qos/security/ip services etc these are topics not we usally configure in live environment
Read the quote again, it's bears repeating:
[quote name='waqas CCIE#27815' timestamp='1295807605' post='901742']
in troubleshooting section your real life experience could be helpful but i will not say the person having no experience cannot clear it when i attempted lab i was not touch with regular field work means no experience but in configuration section no experience could help you that is only your knowledge which helps you to understand deeply ipv4/ipv6/qos/security/ip services etc these are topics not we usally configure in live environment
So... what do we configure in a live environment these days anyway?
How many times are you going to post that quote? I think I've seen it way too many places now to have any effect.
Face it. There are idiots in the world. They're everywhere.... but we don't need to memorialize them!
Face it. There are idiots in the world. They're everywhere.... but we don't need to memorialize them!
I can accomodate the facts as present themselves, as few others can.
I find it strange that nearly every CCIE I know or have met in person is a very high level superior quality network engineer, and yet on-line I meet so many who simply want to just beat the entire process entirely.
There are more of the second types unfortunately.
However, I have heard someone quote that it is only 1% of the available candidates...
Someone suffers delusions.
I am one of the few non-CCIE types who is as vocal as I am - true.
Your attempts to dissuade the reality of the situation are defeated by the actual reality that when the tests changed - even a little people simple failed to pass the CCIE RS Lab ~en masse - no matter who they used for trainers, how long they trained, etc.
Something in that lab beat one and all comers.
That's all history now.
I know it doesn't sell classes and lab seats.
However, it does seem to take a while to actually burn a CCIE in and make a quality engineer.
One of the guys I met recently was telling me of a pretty sharp network engineer going over the dreaded 12 attempts for CCIE RS.
The ISP AM (who used to work for the area's largest Cisco Gold) was telling me about one his best engineer going over like 14 trips and still didn't pass the CCIE RS.
I love it when online it sounds like I am the only guy taking the slow boat to China when, in fact, most of the quality engineers in my area, whom I happen to know are also taking several attempts, getting lots of training classes, and generally taking a few years or more (emphasis on MORE) to earn the CCIE digits.
Note: All of these guys are in the CCIE Salary Range typically and run networks.
The Cisco Manager here who finally threw in the towel on the CCIE RS and handed me about 6-8 Bootcamps worth of materials... one of them yours, by the way.
The list goes on and on...
I think we can agree it takes a while to bake a CCIE.
What about the CCIE SP who was an instructor for a notable CCIE Training company you previously worked for...
- 10+ years experience
- CCIE SP
- literally wrote the books (updates to yours)
- taught or attended classes (references available)
- at least 3 attempts to pass the CCIE RS
The list goes on and on...
It just takes a while to bake a CCIE. Lots of effort, attention to detail, etc.
No silver bullets are out there... well except for guy like our friend here. He promises other people a 10-Day pass.
I find it strange that nearly every CCIE I know or have met in person is a very high level superior quality network engineer, and yet on-line I meet so many who simply want to just beat the entire process entirely.
There are more of the second types unfortunately.
However, I have heard someone quote that it is only 1% of the available candidates...
Someone suffers delusions.
I am one of the few non-CCIE types who is as vocal as I am - true.
Your attempts to dissuade the reality of the situation are defeated by the actual reality that when the tests changed - even a little people simple failed to pass the CCIE RS Lab ~en masse - no matter who they used for trainers, how long they trained, etc.
Something in that lab beat one and all comers.
That's all history now.
I know it doesn't sell classes and lab seats.
However, it does seem to take a while to actually burn a CCIE in and make a quality engineer.
One of the guys I met recently was telling me of a pretty sharp network engineer going over the dreaded 12 attempts for CCIE RS.
The ISP AM (who used to work for the area's largest Cisco Gold) was telling me about one his best engineer going over like 14 trips and still didn't pass the CCIE RS.
I love it when online it sounds like I am the only guy taking the slow boat to China when, in fact, most of the quality engineers in my area, whom I happen to know are also taking several attempts, getting lots of training classes, and generally taking a few years or more (emphasis on MORE) to earn the CCIE digits.
Note: All of these guys are in the CCIE Salary Range typically and run networks.
The Cisco Manager here who finally threw in the towel on the CCIE RS and handed me about 6-8 Bootcamps worth of materials... one of them yours, by the way.
The list goes on and on...
I think we can agree it takes a while to bake a CCIE.
What about the CCIE SP who was an instructor for a notable CCIE Training company you previously worked for...
- 10+ years experience
- CCIE SP
- literally wrote the books (updates to yours)
- taught or attended classes (references available)
- at least 3 attempts to pass the CCIE RS
The list goes on and on...
It just takes a while to bake a CCIE. Lots of effort, attention to detail, etc.
No silver bullets are out there... well except for guy like our friend here. He promises other people a 10-Day pass.
For kids coming out of college, to have such certifications was required, even if they had no real-world experience. I worked with many. But the business world discovered that there were many talented and experienced people who could actually program routers and run MPLS systems, VOIPs, etc., even without the pedigree, which is why you always see "or 5 years experience" as part of a job description. You sound too judgmental to understand. Having a well-rounded education and experience is far more valuable to a company. It makes you more marketable and able to withstand changing market conditions. Remember the dot com crash of 2000? (Maybe not). You're right...it is a choice. I chose to take a smaller, less stressful job after working through the corporate BS. And during this recession I not only kept my job but negotiated a 10% increase. But you can choose to work for a company where you're just another number instead of a valued person with a name.
I have always thought of the CCIE as the top cert in this industry. The CCIE shows that as well as the ability to pass an exam, it shows that you have the experience gained over years and that you have the knowledge gained over the years. I read the article with interest and then you totally devalued it with this statement "His certification is new and he has no experience to speak of. ". How the hell did this guy get his cert if he has no experience to speak of. It is becoming clear that some people are sitting boot camp after boot camp until they pass and then when they get in to the real world they are stuffed. Boot camps are great but only as a tool to prepare you for the exam. If this guy has no experience suggest he stops putting himself forward as a CCIE and try to get a role that will give him the experience.
No experience to speak of CCIE, I ask you........Cisco sort this out before the CCIE ends up being a paper exercise!
No experience to speak of CCIE, I ask you........Cisco sort this out before the CCIE ends up being a paper exercise!
In my opinion, certificates are material proof of one's abilities and level of knowledge. The CCIE is without doubt still widely respected in the industry. Despite the attempts to degrade the exam, I can assure you companies still take this into account. Yes, it may only come in second to experience but I think people should give credit to newbies (CCIE passers with less than 5 years experience). Give them a chance to earn both certifications and experience. Sure the experts are the kings of their craft but they don't have the same drive they used to.
The only way the CCIE will lose value is if there is no need for them...it will be base on supply and demand. I find it demoralizing in one post in the article someone speaks about a fresh college student who pass the CCIE but has no experience as if was bad. Further down one speak of an Iran who gain their CCIE with no work experience but talk about him with so much passion. I just dont get it ...
It made me wonder how will i be view once I graduate from my university with a CCNP. Will i be look at as a cert chaser ? Well I been enroll in the Cisco Academy since my first days in college, CCNA and CCNP have always been part of my degree curriculum. Will it be my fault i was able to gain my CCNP so easily since Cisco only recommends 1 year of real networking experience before you take the test ( the same as comptia Net+)? Did you guys know that Cisco recommends only 5 years or real networking experience for the CCIE or CCDE ?
So what is the problem here ? These newbie CCIE's ( anyone with less than 5 years experience) is look down on among their peers. They are look down because they went out and achieve and refuse to stay still at a certain level. I know quite a few establish season admin who do not even take a crack at more advance certification because they are not require to have them. As a matter of fact most of them feel as if their employer will not sponsor them in their training and cert they will not waste any time on it. That is not the way to go in today's highly competitive market.
In today's job market a master degree is look as the the status-quo. I see it all the time.. kids graduating then taking up a masters degree to increase their chances to get into med or law school, or to land a job within their field of study. So over achieving in school or training with no experience is the norm now... you can thank the economy for that. Honestly i look at you elder IT professionals as very lucky individuals. Only during your era of time a company would allow someone with no experience and no degree to break into the IT field as a walk on. In today's world a bachelors in computer science or related discipline is mandatory.... add in at least 2-4 years experience and you have a shot unless you graduated from a high profile school.
It made me wonder how will i be view once I graduate from my university with a CCNP. Will i be look at as a cert chaser ? Well I been enroll in the Cisco Academy since my first days in college, CCNA and CCNP have always been part of my degree curriculum. Will it be my fault i was able to gain my CCNP so easily since Cisco only recommends 1 year of real networking experience before you take the test ( the same as comptia Net+)? Did you guys know that Cisco recommends only 5 years or real networking experience for the CCIE or CCDE ?
So what is the problem here ? These newbie CCIE's ( anyone with less than 5 years experience) is look down on among their peers. They are look down because they went out and achieve and refuse to stay still at a certain level. I know quite a few establish season admin who do not even take a crack at more advance certification because they are not require to have them. As a matter of fact most of them feel as if their employer will not sponsor them in their training and cert they will not waste any time on it. That is not the way to go in today's highly competitive market.
In today's job market a master degree is look as the the status-quo. I see it all the time.. kids graduating then taking up a masters degree to increase their chances to get into med or law school, or to land a job within their field of study. So over achieving in school or training with no experience is the norm now... you can thank the economy for that. Honestly i look at you elder IT professionals as very lucky individuals. Only during your era of time a company would allow someone with no experience and no degree to break into the IT field as a walk on. In today's world a bachelors in computer science or related discipline is mandatory.... add in at least 2-4 years experience and you have a shot unless you graduated from a high profile school.
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