Discussion on:
View:
Show:
Some of us are still very good techs and keep an active hand in by necessity.
Most IT Managers I've seen got promoted because they could do a mean Excel spreadsheet or Access Database.
Yes they exist but are rare. Management is management and whether we like or not there primary function is no longer to be the ones to keep up with every single detail that's why you have job as a Admin. Now with that said I have had managers that where completely just clueless as to pretty much anything I did on a daily basis to managers that where not as tech savy as they once where but still keep up enough to ask the right questions. I think that is the biggest difference.
I'd rather have a manager who can manage rather than a technical expert who was promoted beyond his level of competence. I've had both in the past and really would vote the manager any day. My current boss has a reasonable understanding of IT systems and such but is in no way a computer expert, so I can run my projects with his backing and support but without inappropriate interference.
IT Director here... I keep my skills sharp by using them every day. As head of a small IT team, the position is far more crucial than some cushy desk job. As IT staffs shrink under economic and technological pressures, the role of a hands-on IT Director will increase and I dare say improve over time.
Ya know that sometimes they will take a tech who isn't really 'on the ball' and promote him, just to get him away from the equipment so he won't hurt himself or others. If your'e a manager, manage and let the technical stuff to the guys who do THAT for a living. You don't want the techs to tell you how to do your job, do ya?
That is too funny!
M. Gale
M. Gale
Way back when I was starting out as a bench tech, I had a manager that gave his best employees lackluster reviews so that they would not be promoted out of his department! I do believe he was also trying to promote the "problems" out. Fortunately, I managed to move up in spite of his efforts.
Why bother discussing prestige at all? When you get up on a workday and make your way to work you need to feel that what you are going to do will make a difference. Esteem is second from the top on Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Prestige is more important than you might think. Managers of those IT roles lacking prestige would be wise to address this basic human need.
I have performed each of these roles except for network admin. For me it all came down to getting the job done as best I could first and expecting prestige to follow. Developer/systems analyst was always the role I enjoyed the most.
As I've mentioned before I have a great deal of respect for technicians. They have helped me more than once solve a problem that allowed me to complete a project on time. One was also a good friend.
I've often wondered how a help desk analyst gets up every morning to make their way to a job the likes of masochism for the technically minded. I couldn't do it. Is it possible that there are people who actually like working the help desk? Maybe. I worked next to the help desk analysts for more than a year and found that it requires a special breed of IT pro to work the help desk. The analysts may not have loved their work bit they seemed comfortable with their jobs.
I've worked the help desk. I know how little respect help desk analysts get. Now whenever I have to call for support I make a special effort to try to brighten the day of the person at the other end of the line. A kind comment or two, a pleasant demeanor and a generous thank you can go a long way to make someone feel appreciated. It's simple common courtesy and if everyone practiced it perhaps then the Rodney Dangerfield's of the IT world would finally feel like they have gotten a little bit of the respect they are due.
6. Managers - Of course, managing is real work and if you don't think so, find yourself in a leadership position and you will quickly find out how challenging a manager's role can be.
As always I will be available to answer any questions or add to the commentary when I have something to add.
Edit: Fix punctuation
I have performed each of these roles except for network admin. For me it all came down to getting the job done as best I could first and expecting prestige to follow. Developer/systems analyst was always the role I enjoyed the most.
As I've mentioned before I have a great deal of respect for technicians. They have helped me more than once solve a problem that allowed me to complete a project on time. One was also a good friend.
I've often wondered how a help desk analyst gets up every morning to make their way to a job the likes of masochism for the technically minded. I couldn't do it. Is it possible that there are people who actually like working the help desk? Maybe. I worked next to the help desk analysts for more than a year and found that it requires a special breed of IT pro to work the help desk. The analysts may not have loved their work bit they seemed comfortable with their jobs.
I've worked the help desk. I know how little respect help desk analysts get. Now whenever I have to call for support I make a special effort to try to brighten the day of the person at the other end of the line. A kind comment or two, a pleasant demeanor and a generous thank you can go a long way to make someone feel appreciated. It's simple common courtesy and if everyone practiced it perhaps then the Rodney Dangerfield's of the IT world would finally feel like they have gotten a little bit of the respect they are due.
6. Managers - Of course, managing is real work and if you don't think so, find yourself in a leadership position and you will quickly find out how challenging a manager's role can be.
As always I will be available to answer any questions or add to the commentary when I have something to add.
Edit: Fix punctuation
Completely in agreement with you on the leadership part, especially a reason why one is chosen to move pieces across projects, matrixed organizations and of course, outsourced personel...
Alan, I agree, however, that could pretty well apply to any job. As far as esteem and respect-- I say continue on to get advanced degrees, MIS, MBA-Global Concentration, then a doctorate.
m. Gale
m. Gale
I was constantly getting denigrating comments from our Programming team, and one of them one morning said "I'd like to see you try to untangle a problem at our level!" I told him I'd like to see him try to learn every area we have well enough to immediately identify the source of a problem and be able to address it the vast majority of the time without any escalation - I know Exchange services, our network setup, problems that the programmers always send me because they don't know how to fix their own desktops, how to walk an irate customer through formatting a Word document, and some programming to boot. Good luck with that. He was peeved but didn't have a comeback. >.^
...agreed with that later comment about hats off to Programmers, it's a tough job. It's just not a job that has any right to spend its time belittling *my* job. ^_^
The best prestige Job is:
Job Satisfaction and going home with a smile on your face.
:-D
No matter how hard the day was and how many challenges, money,status doesn't really play a role at the end of the day!
I rather have no prestige and little money than thinking my job is more prestige than my neighbours.
At the end in IT & Automation: we can't live with out each other no matter how big or small your jobs is! We are the gears that fit snuggly together on different shafts and we give the world prestige Infrastructure and Communications (Devices&Hardware & Software&Programming& Projects)
So People ( U all have Prestige & Important Jobs, everyone of U!)
Thanks to our Provider.
Job Satisfaction and going home with a smile on your face.
:-DNo matter how hard the day was and how many challenges, money,status doesn't really play a role at the end of the day!
I rather have no prestige and little money than thinking my job is more prestige than my neighbours.
At the end in IT & Automation: we can't live with out each other no matter how big or small your jobs is! We are the gears that fit snuggly together on different shafts and we give the world prestige Infrastructure and Communications (Devices&Hardware & Software&Programming& Projects)
So People ( U all have Prestige & Important Jobs, everyone of U!)
Thanks to our Provider.
I am a good tech, and I love my work. I like fixing problems and teaching. I also like being called magical, a goddess, a superhero and an angel. I get to play for a living, and I always have the newest and best toys.
I don't want to manage, It is too much like work.
I don't want to manage, It is too much like work.
Learn to apply Maslow's Hierarchy Of Needs in your own projects and see results:
http://innovativeprojectguide.com/soft-skills-in-project-managent/8-soft-skills-in-project-management/121-maslows-theory-of-human-needs.html
http://innovativeprojectguide.com/soft-skills-in-project-managent/8-soft-skills-in-project-management/121-maslows-theory-of-human-needs.html
I don't think programmers are so highly respected. Even though they are the most important, but from my self experience we only rank slightly high then the technicians.
I have much respect for programmers, because I think being able to create something from scratch and customizing it any way you like is the tops.
Indeed, some companies, especially those in "financial services" don't quite understand how hard it is to create things that they take for granted.
So hats off to programmers, a little frustrated that I couldn't learn to program myself :((
Indeed, some companies, especially those in "financial services" don't quite understand how hard it is to create things that they take for granted.
So hats off to programmers, a little frustrated that I couldn't learn to program myself :((
Thanks for the admiration Bogdan but I fear you are very much in the minority! And its not just financial services who don't get what it is we do.
I have a colleague who has worked as a sysadmin and project manager in IT for many years. He wants us to write a program to compare student assignments for similarity and in his opinion "its easy! you just run a search on the documents"!
Might work if the students don't bother to change a single word! Either that or it'll be "damn! they all copied from each other again by using the word 'and' in their assignments!"
I have a colleague who has worked as a sysadmin and project manager in IT for many years. He wants us to write a program to compare student assignments for similarity and in his opinion "its easy! you just run a search on the documents"!
Might work if the students don't bother to change a single word! Either that or it'll be "damn! they all copied from each other again by using the word 'and' in their assignments!"
Hi Jon.
The perception is that managers aren't technically proficient since they neither do the "real work" nor communicate their level of expertise. Reality of course may be different.
I've always thought it best to lead by example. I could do this as project lead but I always got the impression that getting one's hands dirty was a no-no for middle and upper management. Perhaps it varies from company to company?
Managers who keep their technical skills up to date and occasionally pitch in to help earn a high level of prestige in my book.
The perception is that managers aren't technically proficient since they neither do the "real work" nor communicate their level of expertise. Reality of course may be different.
I've always thought it best to lead by example. I could do this as project lead but I always got the impression that getting one's hands dirty was a no-no for middle and upper management. Perhaps it varies from company to company?
Managers who keep their technical skills up to date and occasionally pitch in to help earn a high level of prestige in my book.
Alan,
Was mostly said tongue-in-cheek... point taken, regardless. Much may have to do with how the IT Manager ended up with the position. I started as a proficient tech and ended up as manager due to a knack for organization and a fair skill with people.
There are always ways to improve, but my staff seem satisfied with the dynamics. I do have the unusual advantage of still regularly taking care of client/customer/user issues.
Jon
Was mostly said tongue-in-cheek... point taken, regardless. Much may have to do with how the IT Manager ended up with the position. I started as a proficient tech and ended up as manager due to a knack for organization and a fair skill with people.
There are always ways to improve, but my staff seem satisfied with the dynamics. I do have the unusual advantage of still regularly taking care of client/customer/user issues.
Jon
If you are a good manager, hire good techs and leave the heavy lifting to them. Keep your hands out of the pot if your'e not the chef. Does the owner of the cafe cook and server the food and wash the dishes? I think not. Do your own job, hire good techs and let them do their thing. Cause no matter how good you are, the tech is gonna think your'e a putz and to know your place.
perhaps I can interest you in a bridge, prime location, one careful owner....
Anyone who is concerned with this, needs to get out more.
Anyone who is concerned with this, needs to get out more.
Tony,
I felt that way too at first but I've changed my mind. If Maslow is right then the need for prestige and esteem won't become important until the lower needs are met.
I felt that way too at first but I've changed my mind. If Maslow is right then the need for prestige and esteem won't become important until the lower needs are met.
Everybody likes to feel needed, that their contribution is valued etc, and to a certain extent (they pay us for it) it is. In terms of being more prestigious than some other role, then any judgement is hugely subjective and situational.
So programmer isn't the most prestigious IT role at company X, means nothing more than other roles are considered more critical to that business....
I don't even feel that programmer is an inherrently more valuable role than DB, or PM, or Admin, etc.
In fact if anything, I'd say composing this sort of ranking is very counter-productive,a s all you are doing is irritating nine other people, if they are insecure enough to give this guff any credence.
So programmer isn't the most prestigious IT role at company X, means nothing more than other roles are considered more critical to that business....
I don't even feel that programmer is an inherrently more valuable role than DB, or PM, or Admin, etc.
In fact if anything, I'd say composing this sort of ranking is very counter-productive,a s all you are doing is irritating nine other people, if they are insecure enough to give this guff any credence.
"I don't even feel that programmer is an inherrently more valuable role than DB, or PM, or Admin, etc."
I state just that in the last paragraph. That is, however, not how the real world works. People really do judge your importance based on your job title.
It can be beneficial to know how others see you. Knowing this can help you understand the bad behavior or others and not take it personally.
I state just that in the last paragraph. That is, however, not how the real world works. People really do judge your importance based on your job title.
It can be beneficial to know how others see you. Knowing this can help you understand the bad behavior or others and not take it personally.
their skin colour, religion, sexual persuasion, what school they went to, what their dad did....
Anyone who thinks the name of a role in some other organisation matches up to the same named role in their own, isn't capable of judging which of Billy and Bert's goldfish is the most orange.
Anyone who thinks the name of a role in some other organisation matches up to the same named role in their own, isn't capable of judging which of Billy and Bert's goldfish is the most orange.
"Prestige" is all well-and-good, but for "feel good", just ask "Who gets the call when everyone is stumped?"
And the corollary to that, "When you leave, how many new-hires does it take to replace you?"
If it took 3 or more, just keep smiling... your silence speaks volumes.
And the corollary to that, "When you leave, how many new-hires does it take to replace you?"
If it took 3 or more, just keep smiling... your silence speaks volumes.
is my goal everywhere I work.
Sometimes what they call me isn't nice, but having a reputation as a guy who can and will get things done, is my saving grace, makes up for being that irritating git.
Sometimes what they call me isn't nice, but having a reputation as a guy who can and will get things done, is my saving grace, makes up for being that irritating git.
I was once a Helpdesk Person, a System Admin, and Infrastructure Engineer, A Systems Engineer and now I get to tell you what to do. Why - well I've done it before and still know how to. I also get paid more these days. You however don't know how to organize more than your day I guess.
I specialize in consulting services helping IT managers. I also do leadership consulting and training.
So, surely when you said you tell me, well, you meant 'people' and what you probably actually meant was that you really set priorities, based on priorities that management set for you, and you are just the single POC for management to the IT side of the house or some variation on this.
I laugh, simply because management of IT is a redundant term, in that any company that has management, and does not see themself as managing ALL of their business, including IT and the Operational side shall quickly find they are not managing the business. If your reply, and this ranking are to represent the 'personnel' managers who acquire human and other assets for the organization based on policy, procedures and budgets set by others, then clearly I would tend to agree.
Just really, really don't see it as a position of prestige, unless maybe they meant CTO or some construct. Rarely do I see companies call into a meeting the IT infrasctructure manager to consult about oeprational activities, but I often see Program Managers and others, so again, a broad term, that leaves the user to define is hardly something I consider a prestige label.
No offense
So, surely when you said you tell me, well, you meant 'people' and what you probably actually meant was that you really set priorities, based on priorities that management set for you, and you are just the single POC for management to the IT side of the house or some variation on this.
I laugh, simply because management of IT is a redundant term, in that any company that has management, and does not see themself as managing ALL of their business, including IT and the Operational side shall quickly find they are not managing the business. If your reply, and this ranking are to represent the 'personnel' managers who acquire human and other assets for the organization based on policy, procedures and budgets set by others, then clearly I would tend to agree.
Just really, really don't see it as a position of prestige, unless maybe they meant CTO or some construct. Rarely do I see companies call into a meeting the IT infrasctructure manager to consult about oeprational activities, but I often see Program Managers and others, so again, a broad term, that leaves the user to define is hardly something I consider a prestige label.
No offense
How about that as a position?
Though it tends to rate lower than the detritus in the bottom of my garbage can. (im so jealous of the detritus up there)
Though it tends to rate lower than the detritus in the bottom of my garbage can. (im so jealous of the detritus up there)
...I think you have to look at the fact that mail admins aren't exactly a common role in many organizations. The roles listed here are your everyday roles you find in every organization. Mail Admins are only for ones that really require specific mail administration techniques.
This is of course from what I have witnessed in recent experience.
This is of course from what I have witnessed in recent experience.
This role is commonly taken by the sysadmin. And the e-mail system doesn't require a lot of work once you get it up and running correctly.
System Center admin, anti-virus admin, SharePoint admin, but definitely NOT database admin.
Like an e-mail admin, if the organization is large enough then there can be a need for people dedicated to specific functions. There are probably outfits out there with printer administrators.
I haven't the privilege to work in such a large organization that required their own separate e-mail admin, anti-virus admin etc...but I soo would like to, otherwise it wouldn't be me having to deal with all this crap
How bout a Windows Share Admin ?
How bout a Windows Share Admin ?
Ha ha! What is it exactly that an email administrator does? 
An Email admin takes care of user maintenance (set up new users, delete mailboxes, etc.), archiving, mail transmission problems, spam, patch management, public folder setup and maintenance, group mailboxes, server distribution lists, and space. It can be a full time job if you have several mail servers, but in a smaller company with less than 250 users and one mail server its considered part of Network Administration.
I was an Email Administrator for a Fortune 500 company at one time and there were 5000+ users spread over several locations. It was a full time job.
AV
I was an Email Administrator for a Fortune 500 company at one time and there were 5000+ users spread over several locations. It was a full time job.
AV
We had a mail administrator with two assistants. They had over 4,000 employees in over 50 locations...and Lotus Notes. 
- Keyboard Shortcuts:
- Prev
- Next
- Toggle
