IT for the young only? I think not - having started in the days of the IBM 360 and still working in the field today at a second career in the nonprofit industry - I feel fully qualified to say that as long a you are willing to learn, IT is a good place to be at any age.
As to your list - two important skills/abilities not mentioned are
1) the ability to plan ahead and avoid crisis situations
2) flexibility to be able to adapt your plans as business needs evolve.
CCP
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1: Thick skin
You need it to be able to put up with reading this article.
2: Persistence
This is necessary to keep you coming back to this dribble as my sides were aching from laughing so hard at such off the mark $#1t.
3: Youth
The reason for laughing so hard. I'm 53, all the "Youth" comes to me looking for answers, which I can give them. They can have all the book smarts you can pack 'em with. The wisdom of what to use when and moreover why isn't in the books.
4: Patience
To keep telling the "Youth" the same answers over and over and not blowing your top.
5: Skills
See the third sentence it #3. Skills don't come from a book. If you want to work on computers... Think like one.
6: The ability to improvise
And fix the impetuous mistakes of youth.
7: A good sense of PR
To keep from knocking the egotistical latter climbers on their respective butts when they tell everyone how good they are and can't back it up.
8: Connections
I had a lot of connections back in the '70s. But that's another story.
The only connections I seem to have are those asking questions.
9: The desire to learn
This is the one that should have started with the sentence. "This one should go without saying."
My parents told my when I was young. "The day you stop learning is the day they put a Lilly in your hand." I. E. You'll be DEAD.
10: Passion
This one is redundant again... LOL See #9. No passion, no learning. The key to ANY learning is passion / desire.
Jack, I've enjoyed your articles for a long time. This one however, should have either been given more thought, or stayed home.
You need it to be able to put up with reading this article.
2: Persistence
This is necessary to keep you coming back to this dribble as my sides were aching from laughing so hard at such off the mark $#1t.
3: Youth
The reason for laughing so hard. I'm 53, all the "Youth" comes to me looking for answers, which I can give them. They can have all the book smarts you can pack 'em with. The wisdom of what to use when and moreover why isn't in the books.
4: Patience
To keep telling the "Youth" the same answers over and over and not blowing your top.
5: Skills
See the third sentence it #3. Skills don't come from a book. If you want to work on computers... Think like one.
6: The ability to improvise
And fix the impetuous mistakes of youth.
7: A good sense of PR
To keep from knocking the egotistical latter climbers on their respective butts when they tell everyone how good they are and can't back it up.
8: Connections
I had a lot of connections back in the '70s. But that's another story.
The only connections I seem to have are those asking questions.9: The desire to learn
This is the one that should have started with the sentence. "This one should go without saying."
My parents told my when I was young. "The day you stop learning is the day they put a Lilly in your hand." I. E. You'll be DEAD.
10: Passion
This one is redundant again... LOL See #9. No passion, no learning. The key to ANY learning is passion / desire.
Jack, I've enjoyed your articles for a long time. This one however, should have either been given more thought, or stayed home.
is, my Few Fellow Sisters In IT: A set of 'virtual testicles' (yah, I said it). When I go to technical meetings, I am usually the only female present (and increasingly, the only person born in the United States)......Men can argue, even curse at each other, but let me even raise my voice, and "I'm hysterical, out-of-control', yadda, yadda, yadda". So be it - I have three sons, and being the anatomical minority in the house, _never_ expected the seat to be up; my first job was on a major Eastern railroad, in a freight yard that did not have a separate women's bathroom - no problem; just announce myself before I came in, and no one in there had anything that I hadn't seen before, anyway. I let guys be guys, and if they are checking out/commenting on female attributes, I am appreciating the fact that UPS guys generally have nicer legs than FedEx guys and waaaay better legs than the United States Postal Service......
I've been 30 years in the IT industry and I can tell you one thing, the longer you stay in IT, the better chances you have to answer in one minute what takes younger technicians hours or even days. It's experience - which comes with time - what really makes an IT guy valuable for the job.
I've met a lot of young people who are really smart, fast thinkers and patient, but the majority of them - not all - think in terms of novelty and like to resolve isolated, easy problems. When it comes to big solutions - normally to big issues - you need the big picture and a lot of knowledge of disparate things covering so many areas. That is possible only with experience and, by the way, when you have the experience, you don't need to stay late like when you were young because you make much fewer mistakes than those who are just beginning the journey you've been in for so long.
Your article is good, but #3 was totally out of touch. Hope you learn from this mistake.
I've met a lot of young people who are really smart, fast thinkers and patient, but the majority of them - not all - think in terms of novelty and like to resolve isolated, easy problems. When it comes to big solutions - normally to big issues - you need the big picture and a lot of knowledge of disparate things covering so many areas. That is possible only with experience and, by the way, when you have the experience, you don't need to stay late like when you were young because you make much fewer mistakes than those who are just beginning the journey you've been in for so long.
Your article is good, but #3 was totally out of touch. Hope you learn from this mistake.
My long list of connections not only finds me work but offers great value to my employers. There are reasons some of us get paid more, VALUE FOR MONEY is a key one, especially when in IT where it is generally an expense and not revenue stream for the company.
To most employers, IT is a necessary evil, they don't make any money from it and it's REALLY expensive. I have a lot of experience working for cable companies, Telco and ISP's. Therefore, when looking at IT roles, I bring a lot to the table as I will be able to get such tasks done quickly, off hours and, usually, for less money.
What I get from these discussions is just how clueless so many employees are when it comes to bringing value to the table, it's the same thing with the salary disclosure discussion.
What is becoming more and more clear though is exactly WHY these employers look for these skills in people. What I initially saw as a given, I now see as a unique skillset because so many people lack the theoretical knowledge fo even WHY these skills would be an asset to en employer.
I guess it's the linear mindset of many IT employees. Even the saying "think outside the box" never made much sense. I always thought OF COURSE you have to be able to think outside the box, everyone does that, but I have been proven otherwise. Present employer included, VERY linear and matter of fact in his values and views, whether correct or not. He just can't conceive thinking outside of the box.
To most employers, IT is a necessary evil, they don't make any money from it and it's REALLY expensive. I have a lot of experience working for cable companies, Telco and ISP's. Therefore, when looking at IT roles, I bring a lot to the table as I will be able to get such tasks done quickly, off hours and, usually, for less money.
What I get from these discussions is just how clueless so many employees are when it comes to bringing value to the table, it's the same thing with the salary disclosure discussion.
What is becoming more and more clear though is exactly WHY these employers look for these skills in people. What I initially saw as a given, I now see as a unique skillset because so many people lack the theoretical knowledge fo even WHY these skills would be an asset to en employer.
I guess it's the linear mindset of many IT employees. Even the saying "think outside the box" never made much sense. I always thought OF COURSE you have to be able to think outside the box, everyone does that, but I have been proven otherwise. Present employer included, VERY linear and matter of fact in his values and views, whether correct or not. He just can't conceive thinking outside of the box.
Hey, Wallen,
Thanks a lot for using your pulpit to further reinforce and deepen the age discrimination that is sadly all too prevalent in our industry. I'm mid 50's but i can and do work many of my colleagues under the table. For you to imply that only the young have energy and drive is an insult to those of us who are older but work just as hard (or harder) than our younger cohorts. Big fat rasberries to you, sir!
Thanks a lot for using your pulpit to further reinforce and deepen the age discrimination that is sadly all too prevalent in our industry. I'm mid 50's but i can and do work many of my colleagues under the table. For you to imply that only the young have energy and drive is an insult to those of us who are older but work just as hard (or harder) than our younger cohorts. Big fat rasberries to you, sir!
0: It is the people that count.
Showing genuine concern for your customers, management, and co-workers is vital. They will overlook minor flaws if they know that you really want to help them, and that you are doing the best possible job that can be done to take care of their needs.
Showing genuine concern for your customers, management, and co-workers is vital. They will overlook minor flaws if they know that you really want to help them, and that you are doing the best possible job that can be done to take care of their needs.
I'm 48 years old and I can run rings around any 20-35 year olds working today, I have much more experience than most of them will ever have and I'm still very active and up to date in my field. The young requirement is total BS! It's something that is hard enough to overcome in the work place, but when so call professionals like yourself promote this kind of discrimination and bigotry. Personally I think someone, namely you, should be fired! As far as I'm concerned Its directly equivalent to using the N-Word and you should be complete ashamed of yourself and this posting. I'm amazed you would create an atmosphere that you too will someday have to deal with. I hope you some day can't find work because today you promoted this unjustified and discriminatory crap!
BTW. many research studies have also disproven the myth that younger workers are in any way better than older workers, in fact most of these studies have shown older workers are actually better performers and that they almost always bring experience that 20-25 year olds just can???t have!
BTW. many research studies have also disproven the myth that younger workers are in any way better than older workers, in fact most of these studies have shown older workers are actually better performers and that they almost always bring experience that 20-25 year olds just can???t have!
Grow a thicker skin.
Unless the OP has excluded you from something, because of your age, he's not discriminating against anyone.
People start spewing all this crap without considering the fact that discrimination doesn't come into play at all.
Like the free speech BS that people ALWAYS get wrong. It's all just knee jerk reactions to every day life, people have become so soft and weak over the years that society is just a homogenized bucket of lifeless and worthless losers.
OH NO, Someone said something that might not be politically correct!
Lets call 'Senior Citizens' old age pensioners again, the 'physically challenged', cripples. Stop this CURVE learning process, if you kid is a 'slower learner', he's STUPID and gets to stay in grade4 for 10 years until he learns to read like a normal human being. African Americans are NOT all African, but they all do have black toned skin, so lets say BLACK people again. If you are FAT, you are 'kin FAT! end of, don't like it? Lose some friggin' weight, DO something about it!
"He doesn't understand, it's not easy, blah blah blah..."
Bullsh*t! When I get too FAT I put less FOOD in my gut. I eat less garbage and drink less beer. If I fail and stay FAT, then it's my 'kin fault that I'm a fat, lard arse, nobody else's.
They don't have to make special seats for me, IT'S SELF INFLICTED! If I take up two chairs I should PAY for two chairs or stay home and stuff my fat face some more.
Let's start facing life for what it is and forget about what other people think or say, we'd get a lot farther in life with a lot less heartache in the process. Nobody is being hurt, it's reality, face it or die like the weakest ones always do.
I'm just SO SICK of people whining about the world around them and expecting the garden of Eden to appear because they are offended and expect everyone else to be too! Face it, being politically correct, and expecting it from others, has become no more CORRECT than just offending people with what are now deemed derogatory comments.
The sheer fact that everything has to be so politically correct these days actually creates MORE resentment and harm than calling a spade a spade. 20 years ago, if someone said you were too old to do something, you'd reply, " f'ck you you little puke, watch me!" Now a mere comment, that someone may be found too old to be a viable hire, creates offense and disrespect. Out comes the lynch mob, waving their canes, false teeth and walkers. What a weak a$$ed bunch of pansies!
It's truly sad, people taking offense to such comments should be ashamed of themselves for being so pathetic and needy of constant positive reinforcement.
Absolutely mental! What a sad, hideous society some of us have to put up with these days.
Unless the OP has excluded you from something, because of your age, he's not discriminating against anyone.
People start spewing all this crap without considering the fact that discrimination doesn't come into play at all.
Like the free speech BS that people ALWAYS get wrong. It's all just knee jerk reactions to every day life, people have become so soft and weak over the years that society is just a homogenized bucket of lifeless and worthless losers.
OH NO, Someone said something that might not be politically correct!
Lets call 'Senior Citizens' old age pensioners again, the 'physically challenged', cripples. Stop this CURVE learning process, if you kid is a 'slower learner', he's STUPID and gets to stay in grade4 for 10 years until he learns to read like a normal human being. African Americans are NOT all African, but they all do have black toned skin, so lets say BLACK people again. If you are FAT, you are 'kin FAT! end of, don't like it? Lose some friggin' weight, DO something about it!
"He doesn't understand, it's not easy, blah blah blah..."
Bullsh*t! When I get too FAT I put less FOOD in my gut. I eat less garbage and drink less beer. If I fail and stay FAT, then it's my 'kin fault that I'm a fat, lard arse, nobody else's.
They don't have to make special seats for me, IT'S SELF INFLICTED! If I take up two chairs I should PAY for two chairs or stay home and stuff my fat face some more.
Let's start facing life for what it is and forget about what other people think or say, we'd get a lot farther in life with a lot less heartache in the process. Nobody is being hurt, it's reality, face it or die like the weakest ones always do.
I'm just SO SICK of people whining about the world around them and expecting the garden of Eden to appear because they are offended and expect everyone else to be too! Face it, being politically correct, and expecting it from others, has become no more CORRECT than just offending people with what are now deemed derogatory comments.
The sheer fact that everything has to be so politically correct these days actually creates MORE resentment and harm than calling a spade a spade. 20 years ago, if someone said you were too old to do something, you'd reply, " f'ck you you little puke, watch me!" Now a mere comment, that someone may be found too old to be a viable hire, creates offense and disrespect. Out comes the lynch mob, waving their canes, false teeth and walkers. What a weak a$$ed bunch of pansies!
It's truly sad, people taking offense to such comments should be ashamed of themselves for being so pathetic and needy of constant positive reinforcement.
Absolutely mental! What a sad, hideous society some of us have to put up with these days.
I suppose the stuff you talk about is pretty relevant to those who do network, system administration and help desk type stuff, but most of it is completely irrelevant for programmers and systems analysts.
For Programmers (and analysts) the most essential skill is the simple ability to figure stuff out. Old code, new code, business problems. Interpersonal communication is a big deal too.
Over the years I've had users come to me asking for byzantinely complicated projects, and I've talked to 'em about their needs and why they wanted what they were asking for, and a project of months became a project of weeks, which fulfilled their needs even better than what they initially asked for.
But, I suppose programmers are a pretty small minority of IT folk nowadays.
For Programmers (and analysts) the most essential skill is the simple ability to figure stuff out. Old code, new code, business problems. Interpersonal communication is a big deal too.
Over the years I've had users come to me asking for byzantinely complicated projects, and I've talked to 'em about their needs and why they wanted what they were asking for, and a project of months became a project of weeks, which fulfilled their needs even better than what they initially asked for.
But, I suppose programmers are a pretty small minority of IT folk nowadays.
I'm almost 62 and loving my job as a stand-alone remote site technician. Most of the work is desktop support with lending on- hand help to the network and server teams at the client's home location. What's interesting is that I was supporting two different clients up to six months ago until I was released from one because of contract changes. I was replaced by a younger technician subcontractor. Although his basic skills seem sufficient, he's not been able to make it work out. I've now been asked by the client to bring me back to straighten things out. I don't think I have any skills out of the ordinary, my company has quite a few stand-alone remote site techs that are at least equally qualified. Some of them are older, some younger.
What matter's is that they have all the qualities other than age listed in the article.
What matter's is that they have all the qualities other than age listed in the article.
This screed is just another hackneyed affirmation of the accepted stereotypes.
YOU can set YOUR boundaries when you are good enough. I NEVER wore an electronic leash and I have some reservations about any employment that requires it. A landline is all I have or need. No " Brain Nuke " stuff here....
When everything starts crashing after a " routine " upgrade, your EXPERIENCE and LEADERSHIP skills ( leaders are made, not born ) as a result of YEARS in the IT business will often save the day.
The size of the ME WALL is usually inversely proportional to the technical skills of the person who has it...
Younger people are famous for " reinventing the wheel ". Many of us old farts sit back and watch ( if there isn't an immediate crisis ) and wait until the " me wall " person learns a bit about " book learning " as opposed to real life. The SMART ones ( not the usual Bullsh!t, More **** and Piled Higher and Deeper types ) ask about what has worked in the past to solve the problem.
YOU can set YOUR boundaries when you are good enough. I NEVER wore an electronic leash and I have some reservations about any employment that requires it. A landline is all I have or need. No " Brain Nuke " stuff here....
When everything starts crashing after a " routine " upgrade, your EXPERIENCE and LEADERSHIP skills ( leaders are made, not born ) as a result of YEARS in the IT business will often save the day.
The size of the ME WALL is usually inversely proportional to the technical skills of the person who has it...
Younger people are famous for " reinventing the wheel ". Many of us old farts sit back and watch ( if there isn't an immediate crisis ) and wait until the " me wall " person learns a bit about " book learning " as opposed to real life. The SMART ones ( not the usual Bullsh!t, More **** and Piled Higher and Deeper types ) ask about what has worked in the past to solve the problem.
between 25 and 45? What a bunch of arbitrary non-sense. Why not 24 and 46? Sir, I've worked with many I.T. pro's who are well over the age of 45 and are amazing I.T. / programming pro's. You should write an article of public apology for that foolish and offensive comment in this article.
Once upon a time, I was a desktop technician on an inhouse team. After years of doing it well, they decided to promote us to different positions, and bring in a team of young guns with our hardware vendor to do the job cheaper.
I went on to manage projects, but within six months I had a new responsibility. Teaching the young guns how to provide good customer service. I heard all the complaints from the customers, many of whom had known me for years. I worked with the team's supervisor to improve their communications and skills. I even sat in on interviews when they hired new techs.
Mad tech skills are only part of the equation.
I went on to manage projects, but within six months I had a new responsibility. Teaching the young guns how to provide good customer service. I heard all the complaints from the customers, many of whom had known me for years. I worked with the team's supervisor to improve their communications and skills. I even sat in on interviews when they hired new techs.
Mad tech skills are only part of the equation.
Hey James, was just thinking about you last night. I was gonna ask around a few peers to see if anyone had heard from you lately.
Good to see you still lurk the trenches!
As for customer service and young guns, let's just call them "young'uns", I see it too and not just in IT or service departments but everywhere.
It makes me feel like an old fart, getting there but still young enough, because I always think, 'Why don't parents teach their kids manners anymore?'
Doesn't matter where you go, friendly service and going the extra mile for customers is a thing of the past now. It's most likely result of big box junk stores, WalMart, Best Buy/FutureShop etc, that hire young kids (cheap) and as long as they aren't telling customers to FO they are considered great employees.
When you finally find someone for help, and they finish texting their friends, you usually get a shrug or they point to a general area where you need to go. This is why I still prefer small boutiques style stores to the mass retailers of low end garbage that put other REAL businesses out of business.
Of course, naming US stores that have expanded into Canada are one thing but no store on the planet can match the most miserable service of all, Canadian Tire. I've seen their staff start down the aisle I'm standing in, looking for help, and they do an about face and run so they don't have to stop and help someone.
I run over ot the next aisle, then the next and so on until you can FINALLY corner someone to help, then they don't have a clue, pick up a phone and page someone to meet you at the aisle you need help in. You better pack food and sleepwear because that person who was paged will not show up any time soon, if at all. Find someone else and they do the same thing, page for help in aisle X, point you back that way (as if I lost my direction) and then you go and wait again, hoping someone in the magic paging world will hear and come to help.
I grew up in a town where the staff would tell you to pee off if they didn't like your questions, but they provided incredible service too. I just can't fathom why people put up with a complete lack of service, then again I can't fathom why people buy such low end rubbish that keeps such companies in business top begin with. I'm not rich, I can't afford the best of the best all the time, but I at least expect value for money, not just CHEAP garbage from a store that provides CHEAP garbage customer service to boot.
anyhow, now that I feel a bit better, hope you are healthy and happy too
Good to see you still lurk the trenches!
As for customer service and young guns, let's just call them "young'uns", I see it too and not just in IT or service departments but everywhere.
It makes me feel like an old fart, getting there but still young enough, because I always think, 'Why don't parents teach their kids manners anymore?'
Doesn't matter where you go, friendly service and going the extra mile for customers is a thing of the past now. It's most likely result of big box junk stores, WalMart, Best Buy/FutureShop etc, that hire young kids (cheap) and as long as they aren't telling customers to FO they are considered great employees.
When you finally find someone for help, and they finish texting their friends, you usually get a shrug or they point to a general area where you need to go. This is why I still prefer small boutiques style stores to the mass retailers of low end garbage that put other REAL businesses out of business.
Of course, naming US stores that have expanded into Canada are one thing but no store on the planet can match the most miserable service of all, Canadian Tire. I've seen their staff start down the aisle I'm standing in, looking for help, and they do an about face and run so they don't have to stop and help someone.
I run over ot the next aisle, then the next and so on until you can FINALLY corner someone to help, then they don't have a clue, pick up a phone and page someone to meet you at the aisle you need help in. You better pack food and sleepwear because that person who was paged will not show up any time soon, if at all. Find someone else and they do the same thing, page for help in aisle X, point you back that way (as if I lost my direction) and then you go and wait again, hoping someone in the magic paging world will hear and come to help.
I grew up in a town where the staff would tell you to pee off if they didn't like your questions, but they provided incredible service too. I just can't fathom why people put up with a complete lack of service, then again I can't fathom why people buy such low end rubbish that keeps such companies in business top begin with. I'm not rich, I can't afford the best of the best all the time, but I at least expect value for money, not just CHEAP garbage from a store that provides CHEAP garbage customer service to boot.
anyhow, now that I feel a bit better, hope you are healthy and happy too
Well done with this list... I needed the reminder about 'thick skinned' again. Thanks!
I, too, am an over 50 engineer, and doing quire well in IT. The reason; this is, as you implicate, a knowledge profession. The lack of willingness to 'keep up' with technology is certainly a 'must have' for this profession. I also agree with all of the remaining nine as well minus the age references. However, I have seen entirely too many 20-45 year olds that are not willing to 'keep up'.
Age Descrimination Indeed......."
How are someone's COMMENTS in a web forum deemed "discrimination"?
Were you denied opportunity due to your age?
Were you treated differently, because of your age?
Have you been excluded from something, because of your age?
Exactly HOW does a post in a forum "discriminate" ?
Are you soft hearted and thin skinned, where you expect the world to be overly politically correct and sensitive toward your age?
Did the comments upset you and make you feel inferior, old or ready to be put out to pasture?
That would be a fair feeling on your part, if you are frail, but it's still not discrimination, as you put it.
How are someone's COMMENTS in a web forum deemed "discrimination"?
Were you denied opportunity due to your age?
Were you treated differently, because of your age?
Have you been excluded from something, because of your age?
Exactly HOW does a post in a forum "discriminate" ?
Are you soft hearted and thin skinned, where you expect the world to be overly politically correct and sensitive toward your age?
Did the comments upset you and make you feel inferior, old or ready to be put out to pasture?
That would be a fair feeling on your part, if you are frail, but it's still not discrimination, as you put it.
Jack:
Ahhh I see blatant age discrimination...
Your description of the IT field being best suited for the younger professionals is wrong across the board. Ha!
First I???m 60 and yes I can???t do a few things I did when I was 25 BUT I can do a lot more
then an average 25 can do now at 60. Example I get no more then 5 hours of sleep a night. Hence I can work longer hours if need be. 2. I have all of my (youthful) emotional issues solved, so more drama crap. I bring to the table patience that only a shogun IT oldie can bring I???m not interested in anything less then quality work however long it takes. I???m in better physical shape then I???ve ever been - even better then when I was 25! That???s because I???m not out partying or trying to look for a mate etc. all night long! All that???s behind me now??? If I were you Jack I would get out more often and meet some of the oldies in the IT field that take care of these companies back end and front end systems. There???re a lot of us still out there enjoying the work. Unfortunately we have guys like you that are giving HR more ammo to show us the door at age 45 or 50 because of the bull S*@T statistics related to aging that they get from their insurance companies. Everyone knows that discrimination is alive and well in the US and the companies want us off their books for many reasons, now you???ve given them a few more.
Thanks Jack!
Ahhh I see blatant age discrimination...
Your description of the IT field being best suited for the younger professionals is wrong across the board. Ha!
First I???m 60 and yes I can???t do a few things I did when I was 25 BUT I can do a lot more
then an average 25 can do now at 60. Example I get no more then 5 hours of sleep a night. Hence I can work longer hours if need be. 2. I have all of my (youthful) emotional issues solved, so more drama crap. I bring to the table patience that only a shogun IT oldie can bring I???m not interested in anything less then quality work however long it takes. I???m in better physical shape then I???ve ever been - even better then when I was 25! That???s because I???m not out partying or trying to look for a mate etc. all night long! All that???s behind me now??? If I were you Jack I would get out more often and meet some of the oldies in the IT field that take care of these companies back end and front end systems. There???re a lot of us still out there enjoying the work. Unfortunately we have guys like you that are giving HR more ammo to show us the door at age 45 or 50 because of the bull S*@T statistics related to aging that they get from their insurance companies. Everyone knows that discrimination is alive and well in the US and the companies want us off their books for many reasons, now you???ve given them a few more.
Thanks Jack!
And yet you still don't know the difference between THEN and THAN. Maybe you are younger than you think/feel, most kids today don't know the difference either.
By the way, the OP suggesting that IT jobs seek young employees is NOT Age discrimination, as you so boldly claim.. It most certainly isn't "blatant age discrimination" either.
"I have all of my (youthful) emotional issues solved, so more drama crap.
Yet you get overly emotional and start spewing incorrect judgments simply because someone SUGGESTED that companies prefer younger IT staff.
No emotional issues with you at all!
II'm in better physical shape then I've ever been - even better then (sic) when I was 25! That's because I'm not out partying or trying to look for a mate etc. all night long!
By your own description, YOU are now discriminating younger employees by suggesting that they are unfit for such work because they are "out partying all night long or trying to look for a mate"
Pot meet Kettle, it's black too.
By the way, the OP suggesting that IT jobs seek young employees is NOT Age discrimination, as you so boldly claim.. It most certainly isn't "blatant age discrimination" either.
"I have all of my (youthful) emotional issues solved, so more drama crap.
Yet you get overly emotional and start spewing incorrect judgments simply because someone SUGGESTED that companies prefer younger IT staff.
No emotional issues with you at all!
II'm in better physical shape then I've ever been - even better then (sic) when I was 25! That's because I'm not out partying or trying to look for a mate etc. all night long!
By your own description, YOU are now discriminating younger employees by suggesting that they are unfit for such work because they are "out partying all night long or trying to look for a mate"
Pot meet Kettle, it's black too.
We all know that any site (heck almost ANYthing) revolves around money. I think that somebody finally figured out something besides and OS centric post, (although it is a tried and true pot stirring method, generating hits, which equals revenue) needed to be tried. Enter this posting.
Kinda sorry I bit the bate.
Kinda sorry I bit the bate.
I have often wondered how it is that so many managers have actually found the capacity to be such blithering idiots as to think that people older than 45 should not be hired. Energy? We're used to working hard. But, we're balanced. We know how to conserve our energy and persevere for the long haul. We have the experience to get things done fast, right, safely, and without screwing up everything else in the company in the process. We know how to negotiate toward a win-win rather than attempting to bully someone into a win-lose. If you're looking for ethics, your younger person may be fiery but misdirected while your older person may be keenly focused, provided that the people in question actually have any ethics. And if they don't, you shouldn't be hiring them anyway, or if you have hired them, the sooner you dismiss them the better. But, make sure you're seeing things correctly before you do and do it right. Whoever said you can't teach an old dog new tricks was an idiot or a person making excuses. Old dogs have a foundation to build on. We may not be able to answer all the technical interview questions regarding functions and parameters that are almost never used but are generally encapsulated into a compatibility library and accessed from a higher level in a more consistent and maintainable and reliable manner. So, the fact that we don't know something may be good thing. If your programs are chuck full of system calls, watch out because the system may change and so will ALL of your programs or modules. You may find that an older candidate may experience a little confusion because he or she has extensive experience working with dozens of computer languages, applications, and operating systems and tends to remember the foundations of commonality and the deltas from those foundations most recently in use. But give them a program in a language they have worked on in the past, and they'll understand it, analyze it, and improve on it making it faster, more reliable, more maintainable, and more scalable.
When you see a company full of nothing but young people and a manager stretching his suspender straps out and boasting about his superior intelligence for it, you have a manager on your hands who has no clue just how stupid and incompetent he is. Companies need a balance. Diversity is key. Differing opinions bring more perspectives, more potential solutions, and better solutions. You need the energy and focus of the youth and you need the experience of the older employee. Without both, your company simply sucks big time. Not only are you open to law suits when the older employees get sick of being discriminated against, but you're in for protests, boycotts, or perhaps the older employees will simply forget about taking that approach altogether because it won't be necessary. The companies with IQ's over 30 will come along and see an opportunity, grab it, and have an advantage the arrogant jackasses crying out for youth only will never have, and that is balance. In those companies, you will have experience training the youth and the youth training the older employee in newer technologies. You'll have a synergy that cannot be defeated. You'll have complete solutions rather than pathetic broken ones that spring from a hope that companies only struggle ineffectively to achieve.
But, don't go overboard and hire only old people unless you have a good reason to focus on getting them back to work. And if you do, consider filling in with younger folks or your company and your technology will die off as your older employees retire.
The key is balance. If you hire your employees based on their competence rather than being a coward and a closet bigot against the older and unemployed, you'll end up with better employees and more committed employees, too.
When you see a company full of nothing but young people and a manager stretching his suspender straps out and boasting about his superior intelligence for it, you have a manager on your hands who has no clue just how stupid and incompetent he is. Companies need a balance. Diversity is key. Differing opinions bring more perspectives, more potential solutions, and better solutions. You need the energy and focus of the youth and you need the experience of the older employee. Without both, your company simply sucks big time. Not only are you open to law suits when the older employees get sick of being discriminated against, but you're in for protests, boycotts, or perhaps the older employees will simply forget about taking that approach altogether because it won't be necessary. The companies with IQ's over 30 will come along and see an opportunity, grab it, and have an advantage the arrogant jackasses crying out for youth only will never have, and that is balance. In those companies, you will have experience training the youth and the youth training the older employee in newer technologies. You'll have a synergy that cannot be defeated. You'll have complete solutions rather than pathetic broken ones that spring from a hope that companies only struggle ineffectively to achieve.
But, don't go overboard and hire only old people unless you have a good reason to focus on getting them back to work. And if you do, consider filling in with younger folks or your company and your technology will die off as your older employees retire.
The key is balance. If you hire your employees based on their competence rather than being a coward and a closet bigot against the older and unemployed, you'll end up with better employees and more committed employees, too.
Most of the comments start by making the point that age isn't relevant and then beat to death the idea that older is better. Come on, get back to work!
First, a disclosure. Im 39 years old this year, have worked in the IT industry for 15+ years, and currently freelance my net admin and business skills to small businesses because I DONT want to work 50+ hours per week in a "regular" job.
The bad thing about lists like this is that theres always an exception to the general rule. On the whole I agree with the author's list, including the controversial topic of age. Some people my age and older certainly do retain keen mental skills. I've been priviliged to meet and work with people even into their 80s who are as sharper in general in their area than the younger generation coming into the workforce. Others (like myself) find that as the years click on it gets harder and harder to retain SPECIFIC technical details like we used to. I used to have a near eidetic memory for technical material, but now if Im honest I'll confess that I have to work harder to retain that information, and I have more trouble concentrating. Is it age? Is it environment? Is it my chronic sleep deprivation from sleep apnea? I cant say. I DO know that (anecdotally) numerous other professionals in my community express similiar issues. Moreover, statistics seem to show many mid level IT professionals abandon IT in the middle of their career, suggesting perhaps that as we grow older we really cant hack it anymore. Cast in amongst the two extremes are undoubtedly people who choose the wrong programming language or server platform, and in the fullness of time find their skills no longer in demand. Some care to relearn new material. Others dont. For some its an ability issue. Others just get lucky. Others find the passion (also on the list) has just faded. Whatever the source, it happens, and the BLS data supports that no matter how many 50+ people get on here and say something to the contrary, older people are outnumbered in the IT industry.
Im not saying (and I dont think the author is saying) that as we grow older we become less valuable. In my own case, where technical skills once reigned without equal now big picture thinking and broad systems understanding, along with patience, passion, and wisdom prevail. These skills are even more valuable than my old technical skills, because they're much more difficult to teach, whereas many day to day technical issues can be solved by SMEs or by a quick search of Google.
Assuming the rule proves true for you, the real issue is to ask yourself what youre going to do about it. There are options (like management - dont laugh). And if you find your technical prowess is still intact as you get closer to retirement, well then thank the good lord every day, because their are plenty of people for whom it simply isnt true.
The bad thing about lists like this is that theres always an exception to the general rule. On the whole I agree with the author's list, including the controversial topic of age. Some people my age and older certainly do retain keen mental skills. I've been priviliged to meet and work with people even into their 80s who are as sharper in general in their area than the younger generation coming into the workforce. Others (like myself) find that as the years click on it gets harder and harder to retain SPECIFIC technical details like we used to. I used to have a near eidetic memory for technical material, but now if Im honest I'll confess that I have to work harder to retain that information, and I have more trouble concentrating. Is it age? Is it environment? Is it my chronic sleep deprivation from sleep apnea? I cant say. I DO know that (anecdotally) numerous other professionals in my community express similiar issues. Moreover, statistics seem to show many mid level IT professionals abandon IT in the middle of their career, suggesting perhaps that as we grow older we really cant hack it anymore. Cast in amongst the two extremes are undoubtedly people who choose the wrong programming language or server platform, and in the fullness of time find their skills no longer in demand. Some care to relearn new material. Others dont. For some its an ability issue. Others just get lucky. Others find the passion (also on the list) has just faded. Whatever the source, it happens, and the BLS data supports that no matter how many 50+ people get on here and say something to the contrary, older people are outnumbered in the IT industry.
Im not saying (and I dont think the author is saying) that as we grow older we become less valuable. In my own case, where technical skills once reigned without equal now big picture thinking and broad systems understanding, along with patience, passion, and wisdom prevail. These skills are even more valuable than my old technical skills, because they're much more difficult to teach, whereas many day to day technical issues can be solved by SMEs or by a quick search of Google.
Assuming the rule proves true for you, the real issue is to ask yourself what youre going to do about it. There are options (like management - dont laugh). And if you find your technical prowess is still intact as you get closer to retirement, well then thank the good lord every day, because their are plenty of people for whom it simply isnt true.
Many of my co-workers are in your prime age range, Jack. And almost every one of the younger ones has trouble managing his call queue, to the extent that management requires them to plan their day on paper. Those of us that are exempt from this requirement are, with one exception, over 45.
And, at 56, I can still hold up my end of the 4u rack-mount UPS.
And, at 56, I can still hold up my end of the 4u rack-mount UPS.
Experience -comes with it. I always love job advertisements that say " WANTED: NEW COLLEGE GRAD" (read that: cheap salary, just a kid) with EXPERIENCE IN Windows 2008 server, ActiveDirectory, Linux, Tape Management, Data Center Clustering, volume backups, disaster recovery scenarios and Ubuntu. OH REALLY, like a fresh kid knows all that in a real world experience???
You get what you pay for.
You get what you pay for.
OK, I only read half the replies, not because i was running out of energy, but because I had to get it off my chest. Jack, you are full of crap! With age comes experience, with experience comes knowledge, and when you know what the hell you are doing, the stress level drops. From what I see, the young inexperienced ones have the stress if they care at all.
We older guys stick with the problem until it's resolved, most of the kids want to bail as fast as their limited experience can take them. If it weren't for Google, they couldn't fix most of the problems that come their way.
So before you play the friggin age crap again, think about how many old people you might piss off. We may have the answer you need!
We older guys stick with the problem until it's resolved, most of the kids want to bail as fast as their limited experience can take them. If it weren't for Google, they couldn't fix most of the problems that come their way.
So before you play the friggin age crap again, think about how many old people you might piss off. We may have the answer you need!
Although some people over 50 may choose to leave IT and may no longer enjoy the challenges of working in a high-paced, high stressed environment, many highly intelligent people will continue to need and thrive on such challenges into their 80's or 90's. So, showing 50 year olds the door seems rather pathetically stupid to me. I say show the idiot manager the door and get a manager who actually knows how to hire people based on their contributions to their employers' success. Then let them train the younger folks so that the competence level of the organization actually grows.
Furthermore, what kind of morale do you expect an organization to have which promises nothing but the glue factory for those over 50? What kind of morale can you expect to maintain by showing your employees there is no hope of receiving promotions, of being rewarded for a job well done?
People think narrowly when they don't consider how important hope for the future plays in establishing commitment and loyalty. And in recent years it seems we have tried to operate without it. We throw jobs overseas to dodge taxes and fair labor laws and laws against discrimination, and then we play the closet bigot here discriminating illegally in such a cowardly way as to make such unfair discrimination easy to hide. What kind of loyalty can you expect from employees when you set an example totally void of any kind of "real" integrity? When even your integrity is fake, your ability to convince people or elicit commitment lacks. You may pride yourself with your momentary success in your latest scam, with your ability to get away with bad behavior, but your customers watch. Your employees watch. Your management watches. Your stockholders keep their eye on you waiting for that moment when your sins catch up with you and your collapse is simply colossal.
If you have a brain, the faster you end your love affair with any kind of unfair discrimination, the better off you and your company will be. Do your part for your country. Put the unemployed back to work. I'm not saying you have to hire the lazy bums who don't contribute anything or that you should hire the incompetent. But, give the unemployed and those over 50 another look. You may be looking into a gold mine that others were simply too stupid to explore. Actually, I have to correct myself on that. You will be looking into a gold mine many were too stupid to explore.
Furthermore, what kind of morale do you expect an organization to have which promises nothing but the glue factory for those over 50? What kind of morale can you expect to maintain by showing your employees there is no hope of receiving promotions, of being rewarded for a job well done?
People think narrowly when they don't consider how important hope for the future plays in establishing commitment and loyalty. And in recent years it seems we have tried to operate without it. We throw jobs overseas to dodge taxes and fair labor laws and laws against discrimination, and then we play the closet bigot here discriminating illegally in such a cowardly way as to make such unfair discrimination easy to hide. What kind of loyalty can you expect from employees when you set an example totally void of any kind of "real" integrity? When even your integrity is fake, your ability to convince people or elicit commitment lacks. You may pride yourself with your momentary success in your latest scam, with your ability to get away with bad behavior, but your customers watch. Your employees watch. Your management watches. Your stockholders keep their eye on you waiting for that moment when your sins catch up with you and your collapse is simply colossal.
If you have a brain, the faster you end your love affair with any kind of unfair discrimination, the better off you and your company will be. Do your part for your country. Put the unemployed back to work. I'm not saying you have to hire the lazy bums who don't contribute anything or that you should hire the incompetent. But, give the unemployed and those over 50 another look. You may be looking into a gold mine that others were simply too stupid to explore. Actually, I have to correct myself on that. You will be looking into a gold mine many were too stupid to explore.
Come on Jack, you've got to be kidding! All of your points in the article are pretty much right on except for #3 "Youth". I can maybe see some companies (like perhaps Google) that might have predominantly younger employees in their 20's and 30's. However, there are plenty of other companies that hire and retain folks in their 50's and beyond. Some of it has to do with the culture and age of the company. For example, you will always see "mature" folks working at government jobs or at defense contractors. Well established companies will also have more "mature" staff members. I will be turning 43 next week, and I'm one of the younger employees where I currently work. When I was a manager I hired a guy that was 58, and he had more experience doing use cases than any of the younger employees. I think that you should remove #3 "Youth". I think #10 "Passion" sufficiently covers the real meaning of what you mistakenly put as "youth".
I find that it not so much what you say, but what you don't say that will determine how long you will survive in IT.
Enough has been said of your ageist comments that I hope you have learned. I also take issue with your acceptance of verbal abuse in the workplace. I would like to think IT has some civility. And if it's a corporate environment, rather than taking it, you should be allying with your co-workers and fighting for worker respect and rights.
I see some stress in my collegues and have experienced it myself. I've been in the workforce for 45 years and have 20 years business management and have been involved in programming and IT since it began to live in a PC in the mid-to-early 1980's.
Jack, you seem to have touched a nerve. Maybe the respect IT and software development folks is lacking in the world. I feel it. US techies are taking a great hit because of a lack of wisdom in the industry, especially the older developers. We've worked hard to gain skills and take on new challenges. How do you think this blog got established?
I don't mean to pick on you for your lack of understanding, however, you epitomize the misperception of age verses youth. I bet you are in your early 30's, and I could be wrong, you may be in your 20's. If you are in your 40's you better get with it because you are getting behind.
Jack is a metaphor for youth gone wild in a world of entitlement and deceit, a world that has lost its faith in a future for personal discipline and hope for a long career that might produce a retirement worth having. I believe the lack of faith in what we can become as we grow older is a prevalent demeanor among those who believe that no one cannot produce a lick of product worth buying because we've seen it all; A place where the McDonalds, fast food syndrome rules.
Wisdom is something to pursue. Caring for one another is important. Gotta have a wing man. We need to unite our efforts. Survival is important and truth is something you can sink your teeth into.
Jack, you seem to have touched a nerve. Maybe the respect IT and software development folks is lacking in the world. I feel it. US techies are taking a great hit because of a lack of wisdom in the industry, especially the older developers. We've worked hard to gain skills and take on new challenges. How do you think this blog got established?
I don't mean to pick on you for your lack of understanding, however, you epitomize the misperception of age verses youth. I bet you are in your early 30's, and I could be wrong, you may be in your 20's. If you are in your 40's you better get with it because you are getting behind.
Jack is a metaphor for youth gone wild in a world of entitlement and deceit, a world that has lost its faith in a future for personal discipline and hope for a long career that might produce a retirement worth having. I believe the lack of faith in what we can become as we grow older is a prevalent demeanor among those who believe that no one cannot produce a lick of product worth buying because we've seen it all; A place where the McDonalds, fast food syndrome rules.
Wisdom is something to pursue. Caring for one another is important. Gotta have a wing man. We need to unite our efforts. Survival is important and truth is something you can sink your teeth into.
Absolutely amazing!!!!! As of my contribution Jack, justifiably, has been "ripped a new place to sit!" I will not belabor the already expressed age issue except to add the following regarding the age/energy equation ... at least my take on the subject.
At age 56 minus 2 months, I begin my mornings at a pace far above most of those half my age and as the day progresses my energy builds on itself until I have completed everything I needed to complete that day. During major national rollouts, it is more the norm than the exception to work 18 to 22 hour days, 7 days a week of 3 to 6 months. Part of those long days entail processing paperwork, uploading site documentation photos and detailing on-site work. I have had many days on projects lit this where I drove 2+ hours to get to the first site, leaving at 5AM to get to a 7AM call, working 15 to 30 sites and returning to the hotel at 11PM and needing to scan signoff docs, upload images, and provide detailed site reports only to get to bed at 2 AM and be on the road again at 5AM! The attrition rate for the 20 to 35 age range is greater than 85%.
There is and always will be an age discrimination factor in employment and it cuts both ways! In a recent conversation with an occupational therapist who specializes in high profile, high intellectual demand career profiles, I discussed this issue. What they disclosed was that for every 5 entry/mid-level hires, the trend is now to hire two experienced (50+) candidates. Why? Because they have come to realize that the experienced (50+) ITs have more than twice combined knowledge of the entry/mid-level hires. There is a meticulous nature with this class of employee, developed through the many years of work/life experience that affords them the ability to resolve a problem (not just come up with a band-aid fix) 3 to 5 times more quickly than their younger counterparts.
Jack appears to promote the idea that the 40+ person's ability to process information slows with age. On the surface, this may appear accurate except ... he does not factor in two very important aspects.
1. At this stage in one's career, the interest is in "in gauging the brain before the mouth." Time is a valuable commodity and they want to make sure they are understood the first time. This means carefully evaluating the original question, looking at the possible follow-up questions to the prospective original response and formulation an answer that will answer the original question and deal with the follow-up questions before they are asked. On the surface, this may appear as a slowing of mental ability but in actuality they are processing information at speeds rivaling super computers! This ability comes from years of experience and that experience is their second most valuable asset.
2. The greatest single asset the 40+ IT (Technology Professional in general) has is a lifetime of dedicated effort to keep up with new and evolving technologies. They have trained themselves to constantly learn. Statistically speaking, those who have spent a lifetime dedicated to learning have minds that stay razor sharp well into their 90's (if they live that long)!
Over all, aside from the age issue, I agree with much of what Jack had to offer observationally. Although possibly alluded to but not specifically addressed there are three additional tips I might offer. I will leave it to the readers to draw their own conclusion.
1. Presence: Establishing Customer confidence in one's abilities to accomplish the assigned task!
a. When dealing with a customer, on-site or remote, how quickly are you able to establish in the customer's mind that you know what you are doing and will make sure they are back to normal operations quickly so as to reduce the impact on their business?
b. Although a customer may not know you by name, they greet you with "I am so glad to see you here to take care of XYZ instead of the last guy that was here!"
2. Ownership: I know you have been having a problem, but that problem is now mine to deal with and correct!
a. When you go to a site to perform service, who is in charge?
i. The site's Manager?
ii. Some remote voice over the telephone?
iii. You as the on-site IT support person?
b. Do you proactively listen to the customer's complaints/rants and
i. assure them that the problems are now yours?
ii. set boundaries, expressed or implied, that provides you with the unfettered ability to perform your service without the constant 30 second interruptions that only slow down your service efforts?
iii. assure them that you will keep them appropriately updated about progress and/or delays?
3. DEPLOMACY ! Both of the above actually depend a great deal on this ability. But how is it defined?
a. Diplomacy is "the Art of Letting Someone Else Have Your Own Way!"
b. Very few on-site contacts understand what is actually necessary to accomplish effective IT service. Many want to try to micro-manage your time on site and this impairs one's ability to work efficiently.
c. What they do understand is the longer their system is down impacts their ability to do their own work efficiently and more important is the longer it takes for the on-site IT to finish the greater the bill for services rendered.
As far as I am concerned, the above are by far the most important attributes needed for a successful career, IT or otherwise.
Now, a response to Jack! I would enjoin you to step back and honestly evaluate your stance and attitude regarding the IT profession. If you are so disenfranchised due to your experience then maybe it is time for you to change careers. The IT field is as cut-throat as any other business and is definitely not without its ups and downs (whether working as a full time employee or as a consultant). An individual's success depends on their commitment and the effort they are willing to put into the development of their career.
In closing, while teaching electronics at a trade school in 1985, I had a student ask me "What do you think I should do as a career path?" I responded "Give up electronics and go into accounting! You will definitely make a better income!" Those of us who have made the choice to pursue a technology related career and stay with it for many years do so because we absolutely love the challenges we meet. We love learning and growing with technology. The fact that we are paid, sometimes very well, is in fact secondary. We are solution finders and thrive on the daily challenges we face.
Unfortunately, the younger generation of ITs will not be able to understand this "Cantankerous Old Fart's" attitude until they too are at an age to be considered a "Cantankerous Old Fart!"
At age 56 minus 2 months, I begin my mornings at a pace far above most of those half my age and as the day progresses my energy builds on itself until I have completed everything I needed to complete that day. During major national rollouts, it is more the norm than the exception to work 18 to 22 hour days, 7 days a week of 3 to 6 months. Part of those long days entail processing paperwork, uploading site documentation photos and detailing on-site work. I have had many days on projects lit this where I drove 2+ hours to get to the first site, leaving at 5AM to get to a 7AM call, working 15 to 30 sites and returning to the hotel at 11PM and needing to scan signoff docs, upload images, and provide detailed site reports only to get to bed at 2 AM and be on the road again at 5AM! The attrition rate for the 20 to 35 age range is greater than 85%.
There is and always will be an age discrimination factor in employment and it cuts both ways! In a recent conversation with an occupational therapist who specializes in high profile, high intellectual demand career profiles, I discussed this issue. What they disclosed was that for every 5 entry/mid-level hires, the trend is now to hire two experienced (50+) candidates. Why? Because they have come to realize that the experienced (50+) ITs have more than twice combined knowledge of the entry/mid-level hires. There is a meticulous nature with this class of employee, developed through the many years of work/life experience that affords them the ability to resolve a problem (not just come up with a band-aid fix) 3 to 5 times more quickly than their younger counterparts.
Jack appears to promote the idea that the 40+ person's ability to process information slows with age. On the surface, this may appear accurate except ... he does not factor in two very important aspects.
1. At this stage in one's career, the interest is in "in gauging the brain before the mouth." Time is a valuable commodity and they want to make sure they are understood the first time. This means carefully evaluating the original question, looking at the possible follow-up questions to the prospective original response and formulation an answer that will answer the original question and deal with the follow-up questions before they are asked. On the surface, this may appear as a slowing of mental ability but in actuality they are processing information at speeds rivaling super computers! This ability comes from years of experience and that experience is their second most valuable asset.
2. The greatest single asset the 40+ IT (Technology Professional in general) has is a lifetime of dedicated effort to keep up with new and evolving technologies. They have trained themselves to constantly learn. Statistically speaking, those who have spent a lifetime dedicated to learning have minds that stay razor sharp well into their 90's (if they live that long)!
Over all, aside from the age issue, I agree with much of what Jack had to offer observationally. Although possibly alluded to but not specifically addressed there are three additional tips I might offer. I will leave it to the readers to draw their own conclusion.
1. Presence: Establishing Customer confidence in one's abilities to accomplish the assigned task!
a. When dealing with a customer, on-site or remote, how quickly are you able to establish in the customer's mind that you know what you are doing and will make sure they are back to normal operations quickly so as to reduce the impact on their business?
b. Although a customer may not know you by name, they greet you with "I am so glad to see you here to take care of XYZ instead of the last guy that was here!"
2. Ownership: I know you have been having a problem, but that problem is now mine to deal with and correct!
a. When you go to a site to perform service, who is in charge?
i. The site's Manager?
ii. Some remote voice over the telephone?
iii. You as the on-site IT support person?
b. Do you proactively listen to the customer's complaints/rants and
i. assure them that the problems are now yours?
ii. set boundaries, expressed or implied, that provides you with the unfettered ability to perform your service without the constant 30 second interruptions that only slow down your service efforts?
iii. assure them that you will keep them appropriately updated about progress and/or delays?
3. DEPLOMACY ! Both of the above actually depend a great deal on this ability. But how is it defined?
a. Diplomacy is "the Art of Letting Someone Else Have Your Own Way!"
b. Very few on-site contacts understand what is actually necessary to accomplish effective IT service. Many want to try to micro-manage your time on site and this impairs one's ability to work efficiently.
c. What they do understand is the longer their system is down impacts their ability to do their own work efficiently and more important is the longer it takes for the on-site IT to finish the greater the bill for services rendered.
As far as I am concerned, the above are by far the most important attributes needed for a successful career, IT or otherwise.
Now, a response to Jack! I would enjoin you to step back and honestly evaluate your stance and attitude regarding the IT profession. If you are so disenfranchised due to your experience then maybe it is time for you to change careers. The IT field is as cut-throat as any other business and is definitely not without its ups and downs (whether working as a full time employee or as a consultant). An individual's success depends on their commitment and the effort they are willing to put into the development of their career.
In closing, while teaching electronics at a trade school in 1985, I had a student ask me "What do you think I should do as a career path?" I responded "Give up electronics and go into accounting! You will definitely make a better income!" Those of us who have made the choice to pursue a technology related career and stay with it for many years do so because we absolutely love the challenges we meet. We love learning and growing with technology. The fact that we are paid, sometimes very well, is in fact secondary. We are solution finders and thrive on the daily challenges we face.
Unfortunately, the younger generation of ITs will not be able to understand this "Cantankerous Old Fart's" attitude until they too are at an age to be considered a "Cantankerous Old Fart!"
That's only because they rise slowly, with wood, due to a great night dreaming of the future and hot young women. They get up and shower, take a quick pee and get off to work.
In contrast, you wake up like a shot at 4AM because you can't hold your bladder, it takes 40 minutes as you strain yourself to pee through teary eyes, take your Metamucil and off to work.
Reality, we all face it one day.
In contrast, you wake up like a shot at 4AM because you can't hold your bladder, it takes 40 minutes as you strain yourself to pee through teary eyes, take your Metamucil and off to work.
Reality, we all face it one day.
...It really helps bro.. I'm an aspiring IT student.. I really want to be successful in my career.. hope to see you write more articles about it.. ^_^
For starters people, remember rule #1, thick skin, so if you feel age is an issue, move on to the next comment. I will say that if you are young, you probably won't have thick skin or patience. I don't think most IT people have "connections". I think most of us people who fix things are very right brained people, and can hyper focus on things, which means that we stay on target, and not look at other people. If we had connections, then we would be in sales. I am not saying that we don't know people, but if you look at someone's connections in LinkdIn, it appears that production IT people have far fewer connections than other business types. I think this list could be used for the perfect employeee for any field. There are some that would fit this mold, I don't think many could, or would.
As Mr. Wallen has so skillfully pointed out, the intense demands of the IT world may be too much for us doddering old 50+ guys. As my mental and physical abilities continue to erode, perhaps I may find more suitable employment as a tech blogger, where I can simply spew off-the-cuff drivel without consideration, accountability, or apology. But then again, how could I hope to compete with the likes of Wallen, with his "shear" [sic] talent?
I've been a Sys Admin for 12 years and at the "old" age of 35 I'm enrolled in my Masters working towards a degree in Enterprise Software Architecture to switch careers to development, and frankly...I'm not worried about the age thing. I have years of experience troubleshooting and dealing with the business suits, that moves me right past the youngins.
The age comments going around do seem a bit loaded. Perhaps experience would be a better trait than age specifically. Sure if you are older you may have had more opportunities to experience things, but those that really like a certain technology might dig in and break/fix things just to learn the product(s) - giving them a good amount of real world or useful experiences.
You are so wrong about the age thing. Us older guys are going to work the longer hours without complaint while the younger ones want to leave and go party, dude. We have the mature skills to overcome a long day. The young ones are clueless.
If it only took ten things to become a successful IT worker then everyone who can say "would you like fries with that" would be in IT. Everything you got and more is what it takes, sure the late nights are the dues you pay when the system crashes - only because you ineffectively planned for the situation that WILL occur. The age argument is indefensible - for experience, knowledge, planning and organization does overcome any of your arguments. Having been in the IT business for over 30 years I have seen it, done it, got the T-shirt, got the golf shirt, went to the cool trade shows, been part of the revolution and my best quality is still my ability to relate to the customer and to the vendors and the further ability to express those findings in a business manner to my bosses, and their bosses. From Board Room to boiler room, from the head of the healthcare system's office to the morgue the ability to be able to speak without a technological arogance to others that may have less, equal or more intelligence is key to the success that you can find in this field. While I know that I am not the smartest engineer even in my 500,000 person population area - I do know that I bring to my customers a peace of mind when dealing with technology that surpasses others. If you are super smart with gadgets and can't talk to people...go and build the next great gadget but if you can combine the passion for making someone's day better along with some well practiced technical know how - the you are on the right road in IT Support.
Put veteran leadership in charge and you won't need so much reactive overtime. Too much youth in charge in too many places has lead to this mess. It takes years of experience to know how to do IT right, and mostly it is done wrong, by those same youth who then have the energy to fix it. And furthermore, with the kids out of the house and a stable lifestyle, I have more time and energy, and vastly more knowledge than all of the youth that I work with, and I am desperately needed to keep the ship from sinking. You couldn't be more wrong about the youth factor. No wonder IT is so screwed up when someone prints this garbage.
i think we as IT professionals should age discrimation bcos with taht i don't think we all are making it.
Dude, age!?!??! I'm 40 and I know more about tech stuff now than ever, including the "new fangled stuff" Is young, fresh blood needed.. yeah, but I've got about 15 years in the biz and if i didn't have those guys with 20-30 to ask questions of, I'd spend all my time googling to find out that what I need to know ain't searchable on the web! No one knows the company network like guy who initially built it, migrated from old to new 3 times already, and has the desk it they WAY back behind all the bookshelves.
When the network for 5000 employess goes down at 2 am or on the weekends, my manager calls me to go in and fix it, because my work cell phone is on. And I will answer his call, instead of not picking up when I see it's him calling. And yes even scheduled maintenance can run way over the expected timeframe. But I do it. At 59 I'm the oldest network tech on the staff and the one who gets the call to fix problems. I won't complain about my younger coworkers, I'll take the work. It beats being unemployed.
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