Discussion on:

IT is best suited for the young? I don't think so

While I do not agree with the Mr. Wallen's blog post for many of the reasons stated by Ms. Bowers, I can see some points to the energy debate that are not covered well in the article above. First I think the energy it takes to be an effective IT team member goes WAY beyond just sitting at a computer.

One has to find enthusiasm and passion to stay up with a constantly change world. I cannot think of another profession that has changed as much as IT has in the past 20 years. While I find the challenge to stay fresh exciting I can also say that it tends to lead to burnout.

The second is the lack of clear career tracks for IT staff that want to stay technical. Admittedly I have not worked at a lot of companies, but out of the ones I have worked only HP had a clear career track for IT professionals that wanted to stay technical. Every other place has required the person to move into some sort of management track to progress up a career path. So reaching your career plateau at 30 makes you really start to ask what is next when you reach your 40's.

I can see your point about burnout, but I think that's a different issue than age. I don't think enthusiasm and passion have to wane when you get older. I think you just find other ways to stay enthusiastic. And if you love technology, its constant change is one of the reasons you love it. Don't know why that would change once you reach a certain age.

I don't know if the comment that IT was only suited for young people was based on experience with a few individuals that allowed a sterotype to be formed, but I can assure you that it's not correct.

I have almost 30 years in the IT field and I've met thousands of IT workers. With a sample that large I can state the there is no correlation between age and energy and enthusiasm.

Some people love a challenge and to learn and others do not. Those people that love the challenge and learning will out work the workers that don't regardless of age.

I've seen many workers in their 20's that refused to answer their phone after hours because they were out at a bar. Other workers in that same age group would go home and build their own servers to test the latest software. You cannot sterotype workers into groups just because of age. The same applies to workers in their 30's, 40's, 50's, and even 60's.

My dad is in his 60s and works a less structured schedule than me! So the statement saying "only the younger workers can keep those types of hours up week after week" does not apply. He is closing one night and opening the next...

Its more related to personal drive, integrity, and work ethics

Brav-O, Toni! From a 50-year-old with 30 years of I.T. experience, I'll go up against anyone in the 20-35 crowd for energy, stamina, and lifestyle. Your comments reflect my sentiments spot-on. I was working side-by-side recently with a 20-something dong a major network migration and all he could think of was, "When's lunch?"

Hooray, Eric! Hey, 20-Something, lunch comes when the work is done and NOT before...

Speaking as a 61 year old who has just completed another 2 year college Network course and enthusiastically plunging into Cloud, I'm wondering if there is something amiss with me because I still seem to have bags of energy left over for system building!

The truth of the matter is age difference is perfectly compatible. I learn a great deal from the youngsters and they are happy enough to have an unflappable "dad" around to support them when life goes against expectations.

There are deadbeats in every generation, I certainly would not criticise the young

Youth will NEVER be able to beat experience. In fact, youth WILL ALWAYS go to the experienced ones for guidance, help and "How do I do that again?" questions.

I LOVE my tech job and I am one of those few people that actually wants to come in to work in the morning to get the job done, not to mention, actually want to help users have a seemless experience each and everyday.

If you love your job, it would never slow you down because your interest, enthusiasm, and love for all things tech would make you shine no matter what.

In1966 when I started as a computer operator, I remember the interviewer suggesting that did I not feel that starting at the age of 26 was a bit late, especially as I had a degree in what is now called hospitality management. Having had a long and happy career in the industry and being still fully employed, you do the maths, my question is : What qualifies the author of the article to make such a statement? My experience of young newcomers is that they are generally lazy couch potatoes that could not break into a sweat if they tried.

Speaking of energy - MMA is big in Portland, Oregon and it was this time last year that I saw a 50 year fighter take out a 28 year old fighter. Age has nothing to do with dedication and hard work.

I have been in this for since I was 16 yrs old now I am 42. I can do more than any kid can and I know more than any young person. I hear or see a problem chance are I can fix ii faster. I have done and proven this many times in the past. I am the guy they all when the "young person" just can not fix it after 4 hours of down time and I bring the system up in 15 mins. My energy is high that is because I go to the GYM and work out to keep in shape. I do not think about going out and partying or play WOW. So as other have stated age has nothing to do with it. It is the individual and their commitment to the company and the job.

Toni's article was well-rounded, intelligent and on-target!!! Unlike the one she referenced by an author who shall remain unnamed, she used real-life examples and her writing was informative, mature and intelligent as opposed to the immature, inflammatory and disparaging writing found in the article she referenced. I am sure there are many people, young and old, who can appreciate her thoughtful, insightful and witty writing!

Nicely done, Toni!!!

Don't forget that the youth spend half their time texting

Energy and competence in multiple, relevant technologies are excellent attributes for anyone who wants to make a success of IT. But, the single most important attribute is the ability to diagnose a problem -- which is far more likely to be found in someone with decades of experience (at least in problem solving, if not in "the cloud" or other technology du jour).
From someone about to turn 60, with 30+ years in IT admin, dev, and consulting.

I've read recent articles claiming "IT is biased toward older workers" ... now this about "IT is for the young". Maybe what we're really learning from such articles is that some IT writers are just very narrow in their vision. Ya think?

I work in a tech organization that has a great mix of young, older and midrange employees who actually seem to join their various strengths into a surprisingly effective form of teamwork. To create synergy from the experience of the more experienced, the fresh points of view of the young and the blending influence provided by those who are neither young nor old ... it works amazingly well. All ages have something valuable to contribute. Fancy that. Perhaps that's why they exist in the first place.

Maybe the age thing only applies to wanna be tech writers and reporters??
I started in the Tech field in 1957, am 71 now, will admit, I am slowing down a bit.
Bob Mckay

Mat-who?

Age and experience don't automatically grant knowledge -- sometimes a 30-year career is the same first year over and over again. But experience is a great teacher, not just of skills but of generalizable knowledge like how databases work and what you can expect when you move systems from a small company to an enterprise.

Older professionals can also be more well-rounded and more able to deal with people of all ages and experience levels, just because they've had the opportunity to do so and learned from their mistakes. Technology professionals who feel they don't need people skills can miss gobs of information because they don't know how to get it from someone else who isn't exactly like them.

...depends on the person... I'm better at 33 than I was at 22

I close as many calls (and drive twice as far per week) as do my much-younger co-workers.

Oh, and I consult for them, too...

...and our biggest issue is finding new blood that we can teach the trade to. Most youth in the area I have found lack the work ethic, reading and math necessary for the job. I will train in house for all tech skills, but I refuse to teach reading and number theory. Those youth who meet our needs either go to college or come to work for us, as our training and certifications count as college credit.

The rest of the argument depends on the person. On most days our older techs (51 and 48 respectively) are a match for our youngest techs (19, 21, and 24 respectively) and no accommodation has ever been necessary.

Perhaps one should watch by what metric competencies are measured. The IT field requires a lot of historical or legacy understanding. After about 10-20 years, one doesn't simply do IT work... one does it with an ease and panache unmatched by the flashiest certificate collector who can spit out every memorized IRQ setting, but can't open a computer case.

There are good young computer people. However, many of the younger ones do not really understand how computers work. If one can't point and click with a GUI then many of the new comers are lost. Even though a person uses high level languages they should be aware that sooner of later everything gets to machine code and at the very least every IT guy should be comfortable at the command line interface to really understand what is happening.

The strangest thing happened to me the other day. One of the programmers / database administrators told me that a computer was broke and unusable, that I needed to fix it. All because the mouse was unusable. I have been a hobbyist with computers since about MS-DOS 5. I knew that Windows could be navigated with the keyboard, but because the computer needed to be rebooted is all to identify the mouse that somehow it was broken and unusable. I had to laugh. I then completed the config that he couldn't without using the mouse, but he didn't see that because he had stormed off. Besides the mouse problem was really because the KVM they have me using is old and the cables are reflecting the use and abuse.... Note: I am the hardware tech at the company, and have only been in IT as a career since after I turned 30.

Yes it's true

..... then I think IT is in a spot of bother very soon...

15 years ago, when I started in IT, certain problems would cause me a great deal of stress. In the years that have elapsed, I have managed to learn countless strategies and philosophies which help me, not only in IT, but in other aspects of my life. I know what it feels like to be called in at any time of the day or night, working on a problem for hours and hours until it is solved. Indeed, that can lead to burnout, but there's a certain feeling about being the guy who can resuscitate a downed system.

A couple of things I did to offset the frustration that comes with IT work was to study principles of project management and people strengths. My job got a lot more interesting for me once I started being able to interpret people's behaviors using flow charts. That took a lot of stress away. It took me about three years to develop the skills, but wow, what a difference.

And, since it took time to refine those skills, I got older... and more useful.

There was this one 20 something consultant that they were considering on making them a fulltime offer. Well one day there was a major project and was going to require everyone to work late. Well that consultant said he was a drummer in a band and they had a gig that night and he couldnt work late. Well he wasnt offered a full time postion.

Toni, when I was first asked to speak before the IEEE, I needed to develop a presentation and this brought to light the need to consider one's audience. Since there isn't a way to be totally sure of who might be attending a speaking engagement or in this case who may be reading a blog, there is the need to state your case in a well balanced non-confrontational way. Jack appears not to have taken the time to consider this one essential point when posting his last blog which triggered such controversy.

As for Age and work. One Size Does Not Fit All. A young (18 - 35) person can have health issues that zaps their energy or the older person might have financial stress, to name two, that might challenge their ability to keep up in a hectic environment. Does this mean that an entire group needs to be labeled as incapable of doing a job and meeting the demands of such a job.....NO.

You see it is all a matter of Perspective.

Robert Kohler

... and I did in a major way less than 5 years ago. It was one of those death marches, but one defined by a major government deadline, so you knew it would be over by a certain date. I found myself working greater than 80 hour weeks on a regular basis, consistently outlasting piles of 20- and 30- somethings, who either had to get to their night class, or had to go home to tend to their kids, or just didn't have the practice I did at staying awake and coherent 27 hours into a day when it was do-or-die time.

There might be reasons that IT is for the young (I doubt it overall, but there could be a reason or two that applies, one of which might go more like "when you first come out of college, you are well schooled in the latest buzzword technologies"... although college students come in all ages nowadays). But there are other reasons it isn't, like experience that tells you the coolest, best-marketed technology isn't always the right answer; like experience navigating the corporate world and learning how to negotiate and make computers fit the business rather than the other way around; etc.

A similar thing happened in grad school 10 years ago. When the semester project was due, guess who it was who stayed up all night debugging an AI program, well after my two traditional-college-aged team members had gone to bed? I wanted the A. They wanted to do well enough to pass.

It really is not age - it is maturity that matters. I have worked with 20-somethings who were technically competent but could care less if the job got done, and I have met some who I could trust for follow-through. We all have images of people with different ages, and those images color how we view all people in that age group. We group people - and it can go terribly wrong. When looking through 100 resumes, you don't really see the problems. For me, I like to have people of different ages - all competent, all have their own strengths to make the group stronger. I don't cut people off at 45.

First off I would like to state that I have been in IT/IS/Computing for 35 years and I only started in my twenties. I do agree that younger members of our teams have more energy, often equal commitment and most have been through "formal education" so that they are used to absorbing information. On the other hand, those of us who grew up alongside computers and had to build one to get one understand the 0s &1s. We have been having IT for breakfast, lunch and dinner most of our lives and know (almost by instinct) where problems reside.
Technology certainly goes around in cycles: a mainframe with dumb terminals relates to server farms with thin clients or web server clusters with web clients. I must admit I do smile when I hear someone has just re-invented the wheel again or just found a more current name for an existing strategic technology or process re-design - must be getting old as I am getting off the point here

The point is that both younger and older IT people have their strengths and if they work together IT will be a better place.

I wish I had mentors when I was first in IT - but alas I was one of the first in IT....... BUT I am still learning (yep even from the yougsters).

It seems like I have always had a job that required me to work long hours or to at least miss dinner, practices, school plays and dance recitals. It definitely put a huge strain on my marriage and gave me migraines. Now that I am in my 50's and my kids are in their teens and 20's there is far less pressure. And as Toni mentioned, you don't need to be Lebron James to keep the network up and running. I have also learned to better manage my time so that I don't need to be in the office as much. VPN's are wonderful!

And no amount of political correctness is going to change it.

Jack is not the only one who came to this conclusion

http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?joel.3.217131.40

Jan's piece also created quite a bit of controversy, and Joel the website owner had to close the debate.

That discussion relates to programming, only one avenue for IT professionals, and therefore too narrow to carry much weight in this discussion. Though I do agree with the author (despite his bad prose and literary style) that standards are huge, no matter what the technology. Try dealing with security videos coming into a public safety organization from 100 various DVR devices...argh!!

.... but then, people who are willing to define themselves as "limited" usually find themselves as, um, "limited". And, BTW, few people agreed with Joel, either, with the exception of the four-year-olds.

Coding is like cooking; you can get the basics (and some wicked recipes) pretty quickly. But if you are motivated and have a modicum of talent (love it and are willing to improve by your client's -- your target audience's -- definition of improving), your income and career aren't really limited. Yes, few will become master chefs, but those who can stand the heat can always find a kitchen they like!

I'm in my early 50's, outside the scope of that fools article - however, I am surrounded by 20 and 30 somethings. I learn about cool new technologies that may or may not be germane to our IT environment. They tap me for not only technical assists but more and more for life assists - Nothing Trumps Life or technical experiences. Not even Trump himself!

The way I see it: TR is BACK PEDDLING to make up for such a miserable performance by the compensated (young?) writer blog service. Frankly, it's a poor attempt at accountability.

Problem is with "older" persons is that they can see right through this action of the parent agency white washing over one of their near-do-well's myopic commentary. Yeah, your "little" writer may be able to write in whole sentences; but that just makes it more clear how small the mind of the writer really is. Thank you for that.

You have got to wonder: When this writer has "advanced" in age, will they remain true to their own words and step aside after "age" 45 to make way for the best IT workers and/or writers that tend to fall into that 25 to 45 age range he is speaking of. It just keeps getting more stupid and more stupid. By then maybe, JUST maybe, the writer may actually be worth his salt.

Now, where is that "Unsubscribe" button.

Jack is mistaken!