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Does anyone have a positive experience to share about working for a consulting firm?
i use to work at a fairly large consulting firm and the experience wasn't all positive.
i also worked as a manager at a large corporation where we hired consulting firms and that wasn't all positive either.
Seeing "both sides of the coin", I can tell you that I think the biggest problem with consulting firms (other than my own) is the sales organization. I don't know where they seem to find these people, but the sales folks always seem to be the "snake oil sales person" type. When I was the consultant they'd send to clients, I always had to help re-adjust the client's expectations because the sales guy told a good story that was too good to be true (aka, they would lie to the client). That was always an uncomfortable position to be in.... showing up at a customer location and having to explain that "X Y Z you were told is not true, I don't have 20 yrs experience with this technology..." One time, the sales rep told the client that his consultants had 10yrs experience with Java programming when Java was still only 4 yrs old!
On the other hand, when the group i managed was hiring consulting firms, we would always have to grill the consultants they sent us until we found out what was true and what wasn't. I sometimes felt bad for the consultants, some were pretty green and you knew they were just being throw at clients without much thought. But the only way we could get at the truth was through the consultants themselves as nothing that came out of the sales rep's mouth was reliable.
so, maybe the lessons learned here is to see if you can get an interview with key people in the sales organization at the firm you're considering joining? or, even better, ask if you can shadow the one of their busiest sales person for a day and observe how he/she performs their job?
i also worked as a manager at a large corporation where we hired consulting firms and that wasn't all positive either.
Seeing "both sides of the coin", I can tell you that I think the biggest problem with consulting firms (other than my own) is the sales organization. I don't know where they seem to find these people, but the sales folks always seem to be the "snake oil sales person" type. When I was the consultant they'd send to clients, I always had to help re-adjust the client's expectations because the sales guy told a good story that was too good to be true (aka, they would lie to the client). That was always an uncomfortable position to be in.... showing up at a customer location and having to explain that "X Y Z you were told is not true, I don't have 20 yrs experience with this technology..." One time, the sales rep told the client that his consultants had 10yrs experience with Java programming when Java was still only 4 yrs old!
On the other hand, when the group i managed was hiring consulting firms, we would always have to grill the consultants they sent us until we found out what was true and what wasn't. I sometimes felt bad for the consultants, some were pretty green and you knew they were just being throw at clients without much thought. But the only way we could get at the truth was through the consultants themselves as nothing that came out of the sales rep's mouth was reliable.
so, maybe the lessons learned here is to see if you can get an interview with key people in the sales organization at the firm you're considering joining? or, even better, ask if you can shadow the one of their busiest sales person for a day and observe how he/she performs their job?
... and would also demonstrate a keen business sense to your prospective employer.
A not-insignificant amount of my time is spent on client management, accounting, and other overhead-related functions that do not get billed out to anybody. So theoretically, these are hours that you'd now be getting paid for. Something to consider if the spread between the two isn't all that great.
2nd, I've never seen a scenario where a "firm" charged significantly less than an independent did. In my experience, it's usually been they other way around by a significant factor. I've seen many people motivated to become consultants because they saw how much their firms were billing for their time (2x-3x) and were convinced that they could do much better on their own, plus be in control.
2nd, I've never seen a scenario where a "firm" charged significantly less than an independent did. In my experience, it's usually been they other way around by a significant factor. I've seen many people motivated to become consultants because they saw how much their firms were billing for their time (2x-3x) and were convinced that they could do much better on their own, plus be in control.
I've spent most of my career as one and look at it from a different point of view. Although you can find me on consulting and coaching firm sites, I tend to think of them as organizations that work for me and not the other way round.
They do my marketing, bargaining and money collecting for me.
If they fail my expectations or do not provide sufficient value to me, I can fire them, just as if they were my employees in the same situation.
They do my marketing, bargaining and money collecting for me.
If they fail my expectations or do not provide sufficient value to me, I can fire them, just as if they were my employees in the same situation.
... as long as your agreement doesn't make "firing them" too difficult.
I'm currently working for a small consulting firm (started a few months ago), they have been in the business for 20 years and have a good reputation and chased me something chronic to come work for them. I did my home work. I am missing a few benefits in the list, Chip. I joined as I wanted some additional development and mentorship from senior consultants I worked with from this firm. And I wanted to break into some industries so I can move interstate in the near future. In addition, I am getting sick leave, annual leave and carers leave plus training and pay for performance (proof will be in the pudding on that last one) so for me it added up to more entries on the positive side. I don't have to worry about workcover, public liability and all those administrative processes that used to take up so much of my time.
I am however, a challenging employee for this firm as I have expectations about management and capability maturity, leadership, skillsets and I have goals for development this year. If I find in several months time that I am not finding what I am looking for, I will be revising my direction. I suspect that I might find myself mentoring and developing some of their more junior consultants. I am getting a bit older and I am realising I have felt somewhat isolated as an indie. I agree with Amir, it cuts both ways.
The sales is done by the consultants themselves, I was involved in a proposal in week one of my employment and this means there is no real snake oil salesman brigade. But I remember them from larger corporations and the bait and switch they would pull. The firm I work for has some values, but needs some maturing in areas - I am currently the only consultant with ITIL certification and experience. So the range of consulting gigs is a bit limited.
I can take 4 weeks off now and still get paid, or I can get sick and not have to stress about not getting an income, and losing contracts. The rates are fairly similar to recruiting agencies and independents and by adding up the benefits, I am not unhappy with the loss in remuneration as it adds some work life balance that I really need.
Life changes, you take side tracks at times and it meets my needs at the moment and enables me to scale down a little bit, I want to semi retire by 55 so this is alll part of some cunning plan. But I do a good review of my As Is state every 6 months so by the end of this year I may decide it was not for me - by that stage I will have a good solid experience to add to my resume.
I am however, a challenging employee for this firm as I have expectations about management and capability maturity, leadership, skillsets and I have goals for development this year. If I find in several months time that I am not finding what I am looking for, I will be revising my direction. I suspect that I might find myself mentoring and developing some of their more junior consultants. I am getting a bit older and I am realising I have felt somewhat isolated as an indie. I agree with Amir, it cuts both ways.
The sales is done by the consultants themselves, I was involved in a proposal in week one of my employment and this means there is no real snake oil salesman brigade. But I remember them from larger corporations and the bait and switch they would pull. The firm I work for has some values, but needs some maturing in areas - I am currently the only consultant with ITIL certification and experience. So the range of consulting gigs is a bit limited.
I can take 4 weeks off now and still get paid, or I can get sick and not have to stress about not getting an income, and losing contracts. The rates are fairly similar to recruiting agencies and independents and by adding up the benefits, I am not unhappy with the loss in remuneration as it adds some work life balance that I really need.
Life changes, you take side tracks at times and it meets my needs at the moment and enables me to scale down a little bit, I want to semi retire by 55 so this is alll part of some cunning plan. But I do a good review of my As Is state every 6 months so by the end of this year I may decide it was not for me - by that stage I will have a good solid experience to add to my resume.
If the firm stays small enough so that every part of the business stays unified in the attention of qualified people who care, then a firm can work. It's all in the execution. Good luck!
I found part time work with two local franchise firms to fill in empty time. In the course of a year, my cash analysis showed that 90% of my profit came from my own work and that the per hour rate franchise firms paid to me for equivalent work (at my own rate) was about 1/4 of the going rate. It was not worth the effort. For one, after a year, my work was only 40 hours, that's all - one week if I paid it out at their rate, a total joke. Only one firm, based down in Florida, do I consider active as they send me out on an occasional job that is just strange, fun or both. But my local franchise relationships have been a monetary waste of time.
I myself chose to opt out and not sign the agreement with the consulting firm because:
1. they changed their tune from 25% to 100% travel (I actually like my wife so that was not acceptable to me)
2. after 6 interviews and me telling them repeatedly what my base salary requirement was they undercut my base by 25% with their offer
3. their non compete was ridiculous
So instead I took a new contract with a firm overseas for a few months as an independent (it just happened to land in my lap at the right time) and never looked back. The thing is, with the financial down side, the stress it would have put on my family and the noncompete risk, it would have been a huge mistake.
But this whole discussion begs the question... if consulting firms are so stupid and evil with their high overhead, bad consultants and satanic sales forces... why do they exist at all? Are there just a lot of firms out there dumb enough to hire them?
1. they changed their tune from 25% to 100% travel (I actually like my wife so that was not acceptable to me)
2. after 6 interviews and me telling them repeatedly what my base salary requirement was they undercut my base by 25% with their offer
3. their non compete was ridiculous
So instead I took a new contract with a firm overseas for a few months as an independent (it just happened to land in my lap at the right time) and never looked back. The thing is, with the financial down side, the stress it would have put on my family and the noncompete risk, it would have been a huge mistake.
But this whole discussion begs the question... if consulting firms are so stupid and evil with their high overhead, bad consultants and satanic sales forces... why do they exist at all? Are there just a lot of firms out there dumb enough to hire them?
... it usually means that somebody thinks they have no better options. Sometimes that's due to an effective snake-oil pitch, or a restricted market, or just ignorance.
I think we are generalising a bit, it is a self fulfilling prophecy to believe that all consulting firms are stupid, evil, high overhead, bad consultants and satanic sales forces. It is also generalising to see indies as cowboys and fly by night unreliable lone wolves, know what I mean? There are always pros and cons, the drivers for larger consulting corporations are different, and they do attract a certain type of consultant as most hire mirror images. But I have seen some guns in the larger consulting firms, so it is not black and white.
For project audits and for some government consultancies, there are standards and sometimes that means EY. I know some really good people in EY, some former independents. But there are corporate cultures, sometimes American corporate culture that does not always match.
The non competes you have if you are an engineer or an account manager in a Tier 1, I don't let that scare me.
Just be careful we don't put all big firms in the incompetent basket, that is not a reality.
For project audits and for some government consultancies, there are standards and sometimes that means EY. I know some really good people in EY, some former independents. But there are corporate cultures, sometimes American corporate culture that does not always match.
The non competes you have if you are an engineer or an account manager in a Tier 1, I don't let that scare me.
Just be careful we don't put all big firms in the incompetent basket, that is not a reality.
Sometimes you don't have all the necessary skills needed and you need a complimentary consultant to help you.
Sometimes you don't have the time to do by yourself all the interviews that you need to do.
Sometimes the client feels more confident in the consultancy when there is a large financial backing that will ensure (in his mind) the completion of the task.
Sometimes it is great to have expert feedback on your ideas before you present them to the client.
Sometimes it is easier to get the job because the client thinks a consultant can be easily replaced if needed.
Most of the time it is nice to share overhead expenses with other consultants.
I could go on and on...
Not all consulting firms are stupid and evil. It boils down to quality of management, like in any other company type.
Sometimes you don't have the time to do by yourself all the interviews that you need to do.
Sometimes the client feels more confident in the consultancy when there is a large financial backing that will ensure (in his mind) the completion of the task.
Sometimes it is great to have expert feedback on your ideas before you present them to the client.
Sometimes it is easier to get the job because the client thinks a consultant can be easily replaced if needed.
Most of the time it is nice to share overhead expenses with other consultants.
I could go on and on...
Not all consulting firms are stupid and evil. It boils down to quality of management, like in any other company type.
Anon on the name of the franchise. In early 2010 I joined, as an independent consultant, up with another company and the first task was to configure and build a 2008 Server for a small, 20 user company. The firm had a 2003 server that crashed all of the time. Dell sales rep put together a new server and I was given the job of installation. THE CLIENT WAS SO HOSED IT WAS NOT FUNNY. The server had 3 terabytes of data for a 20gb rotational storage need, the OS was in Spanish, the server had capacity for over 900 users and ... the existing HP server had only 1gb of MEMORY!!!! GEE, I would have FIRST recommended more memory, but then again I am just an independent consultant. Awful experience.
...between dealing with a "consultant" and a "sales person". A true "consultant" serves as the filter between the client and the salesperson.
... is brainpower. We should be the ones who think.
You might want to look at this guide on selecting a new IT Solutions provider. You can use a similar framework to select a new venture or opportunity. Good luck! http://info.remotehelpdesk.com/Blog-0/bid/53733/Tips-for-Choosing-an-Outsource-IT-Solutions-Vendor
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