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I guess I'm raising my hand. I use my HP netbook (w/11.04) or Cr-48 exclusively. I've actually unplugged my desktop because it never got used. As for a tablet, sure that would be nice, but for now my Android phone fills that gap (if one truly exists).
i use a lenovo x100e with ubuntu 11.04. weight is the main winning factor, as i am on site 80% of the time. have been thinking of getting an asus netbook with 12in monitor for the lightweight and battery life. used to have an acer netbook with 10in monitor (too small).
I have to raise my hand too. Linux is perfect for netbooks (or any Notebook or Desktop PC. I'm using an eeePC netbook with Bodhi and there are no problems.
I don't agree with Jack's saying that Unity is irrelevant here though. In my opinion it is absolutely relevant. It is a desktop that is unusable on any device that doesn't have a touch screen, but on a touch enabled device it may be what you need. He also didn't mention what those eee PC's can do. Asus has eee PC's with touch screen and those would be just like a tablet.
I don't agree with Jack's saying that Unity is irrelevant here though. In my opinion it is absolutely relevant. It is a desktop that is unusable on any device that doesn't have a touch screen, but on a touch enabled device it may be what you need. He also didn't mention what those eee PC's can do. Asus has eee PC's with touch screen and those would be just like a tablet.
I hate full sized laptops. There, I said it. They are heavy, hot, take up too much space in a bag, and have piss poor battery life. As a desktop replacement they are too expensive for what you get. The bigger screens make them heavier while still being much smaller than an external monitor. I could go on about using them with external mice and lack of upgradability...
I love my netbook -- original Asus Eee 1000 with Kubuntu 11.04 installed on the the 8 GB fast SSD, and home mounted on the slower 32 GB SSD. Anything it can't do, I wouldn't want to do on a portable computer anyway, even a 15.6"+ portable. Desktop stuff should be done on desktops and laptops(netbooks) should do things you need to do on the go.
I have an iPad. It is a nice toy. It does email, browsing, books and video pretty well. It is instant on. It is lousy at creating stuff that you need off the machine. It is a recipient of data, not a good creator.
Is it big news? depends. If it uses the regular repositories, then yes. If it uses only special repos like the horrible Dell Minis, then it is bad news.
I love my netbook -- original Asus Eee 1000 with Kubuntu 11.04 installed on the the 8 GB fast SSD, and home mounted on the slower 32 GB SSD. Anything it can't do, I wouldn't want to do on a portable computer anyway, even a 15.6"+ portable. Desktop stuff should be done on desktops and laptops(netbooks) should do things you need to do on the go.
I have an iPad. It is a nice toy. It does email, browsing, books and video pretty well. It is instant on. It is lousy at creating stuff that you need off the machine. It is a recipient of data, not a good creator.
Is it big news? depends. If it uses the regular repositories, then yes. If it uses only special repos like the horrible Dell Minis, then it is bad news.
I have a full-sized laptop with a Core i5 and a 14" screen I use for serious work, but for casual use my netbook's way better. Asus Eee PC 1005PE with an upgrade to 2GB RAM. Use an Atom-optimized distro like Fedora or Gentoo with -march=native for extra win.
Basically, do you want a Mac clone, or a Windows clone...
My folks officially used my Mint laptop last week, I woke up and found them using it, they had no idea they weren't in Windows. They just said "I thought it took a really long time to start up" Likely because they sat through the timeouts on the bootloaders, first the Windows one, then the Mint one...
They also hated my browser (firefox) but used it anyways cause they couldn't find internet explorer. They used it for several hours before I noticed. Apparently they also played a round of Elf Bowling just because they saw it on my desktop.
My folks officially used my Mint laptop last week, I woke up and found them using it, they had no idea they weren't in Windows. They just said "I thought it took a really long time to start up" Likely because they sat through the timeouts on the bootloaders, first the Windows one, then the Mint one...
They also hated my browser (firefox) but used it anyways cause they couldn't find internet explorer. They used it for several hours before I noticed. Apparently they also played a round of Elf Bowling just because they saw it on my desktop.
Since the OS is pre-installed, the factory folk have to ensure all drivers are provided and working. This takes away the big advantage of Mint in including hardware support left "opt-in" by Canonical (though the media codes remaining a Mint selling feature).
With the hardware supported by the factory image, the question would then be Ubuntu vs Kubuntu. I'm not sure if they give any sort of choice or if it's just the Unit desktop environment though either. I just know that the previous two desktop environments tend to get critisized for being similar to the two big brand names.
With the hardware supported by the factory image, the question would then be Ubuntu vs Kubuntu. I'm not sure if they give any sort of choice or if it's just the Unit desktop environment though either. I just know that the previous two desktop environments tend to get critisized for being similar to the two big brand names.
Both Mint and Ubuntu use GNOME, Mint just moves everything around to make it look like Windows.
Provide both side by side, see which users try first...
Provide both side by side, see which users try first...
Mint's inclusion of licensing questionable codecs would keep it from being shipped to the US market by a hardware manufacturer and that's a huge market to give up. This is also one of the rasons Ubuntu can't ship with codecs in place even if Canonical dropped the apt-in for non-free licensed software.
It would be awsome if a hardware manufacturer did give the choice of several software platforms but even in the server world where some choice is the standard, you'r still only seeing three or four total; no os, windows server, red hat, suse, vmware. To HP's credit, they officially support Debian though they don't provided it as a factory installed option. (which reminds me, I need to fetch the Debian 6 software packages now that HP's had some time to produce them)
It would be awsome if a hardware manufacturer did give the choice of several software platforms but even in the server world where some choice is the standard, you'r still only seeing three or four total; no os, windows server, red hat, suse, vmware. To HP's credit, they officially support Debian though they don't provided it as a factory installed option. (which reminds me, I need to fetch the Debian 6 software packages now that HP's had some time to produce them)
Can be installed optionally, later, after you bootup, they add an option tot the start menu to add all the good stuff in one click.
Sound and Video".
Distributors and magazines in the USA and Japan
If you're planning to redistribute Linux Mint in the USA or in Japan, please use the CD image, which comes without patented technology or proprietary components. Users can use the welcome screen and the menu to reinstall these missing components easily.
Sound and Video".
Distributors and magazines in the USA and Japan
If you're planning to redistribute Linux Mint in the USA or in Japan, please use the CD image, which comes without patented technology or proprietary components. Users can use the welcome screen and the menu to reinstall these missing components easily.
I thought they where one of the items included by default. So, mint may not be incombered by software patent idiocy. It does continue to seem like Canoncial but done right.
They seem to genuinely keep making the system better in ways, as a user, I want. And it just in general works.
If only they could fix that battery life issue, but sadly, it appears to be an nVidia problem.
If only they could fix that battery life issue, but sadly, it appears to be an nVidia problem.
I gave my children (9 and 6) a computer. It is a Dell Inspiron D600 with Peppermint. I did install OpenOffice instead of GoogleDocs. I am not sold on GoogleDocs, especially the spreadsheets.
They love it. I did need to teach them how to save as a word file so they can take their work to school. Oh, the malware that comes with their game time, it doesn't care for Linux at all. Pity.
They love it. I did need to teach them how to save as a word file so they can take their work to school. Oh, the malware that comes with their game time, it doesn't care for Linux at all. Pity.
I think that all computers should be marketed with Linux installed. This shows you a lower price point and also highlights the M$ tax. It would show the real price of the computer and then it would say something like "Add Windows 7 for only $99 extra". I think that more people would actually choose the Linux option just to save some money. You should always get the choice.
When you by Windows at retail price you see close to a hundred for a usable "home" version and over a hundred for the first of two "business" versions. When you buy Windows with a system, the oem's bulk price breaks down to about 30$ or less. I think Lenvo business machines hit about 13$ for the OS or so.
Collecting one's MS Tax after a new machine purpose is more a matter of principal for those who choose too. For businesses, it's just not worth it even when they simply replace the factory install with a volume license image.
Collecting one's MS Tax after a new machine purpose is more a matter of principal for those who choose too. For businesses, it's just not worth it even when they simply replace the factory install with a volume license image.
Well... maybe $13 is what Lenovo pays to Microsoft. They charge the customer more. Try to build your laptop online on their website and you'll see that they'll charge you $50 to upgrade from Home Premium to Professional. So I think Spitfire has a valid point...
U gotta be kidding. Who's gonna support those home users who knows ****? Who are they gonna call? They are gonna flood the internet with the stupidest questions. I wouldn't want that to happen.
This elitist prick aditude is a big part of the problem. The small vocal minority such as yourself misrepresenting the rest of us. If you don't like home users, don't help. Easy as that. No reason to be a douch about it.
I'm happy to help my Linux using customers. Not a few of then don't "know ****!" as you say, which says a lot about the general usability of Linux.
A couple netbook owners I dealt with didn't even know that what they had was Linux. They'd been using it for months and hadn't noticed any difference, their apps just worked as they always have.
They came to me when they wanted to alter something and couldn't find "control panel" or "my computer."
A couple netbook owners I dealt with didn't even know that what they had was Linux. They'd been using it for months and hadn't noticed any difference, their apps just worked as they always have.
They came to me when they wanted to alter something and couldn't find "control panel" or "my computer."
The first reason this doesn't get my hopes up is that it's netbooks. For all the reasons you said, but also that we've been there, done that. Is seems that whenever a company makes something so cheap its gimpy, they think "Hey, lets see if it runs any better with Linux on it." They never take it to the next level and find out what Linux does on real hardware.
The second issue is a package install of anything. Want Windows to run like crap? Let a the manufacturer's marketing arm put 20 pounds of bloatware on it. Want to screw up an Android tablet or smartphone? Let a the manufacturer's marketing arm load it up with crap. Want to screw up a Linux install? Bet me that it'll have the same solution.
Finally, I have made no bones about not being a fan of Unity. I don't think that preloading a great OS with this UI is putting our best foot forward. Ubuntu 10.04 and 10.10 sold people on it because it was a familiar intuitive UI that had a minimal learning curve when coming from Mac or Windows. I don't think Unity will win anyone over, other than the coders who don't have to come up with new screen metrics for tablets.
Sorry guys, I still don't see this catching on, and throwing it on netbooks will give the Microsoft FUD bunch more fuel to add to the "can't sell Linux" fire.
The second issue is a package install of anything. Want Windows to run like crap? Let a the manufacturer's marketing arm put 20 pounds of bloatware on it. Want to screw up an Android tablet or smartphone? Let a the manufacturer's marketing arm load it up with crap. Want to screw up a Linux install? Bet me that it'll have the same solution.
Finally, I have made no bones about not being a fan of Unity. I don't think that preloading a great OS with this UI is putting our best foot forward. Ubuntu 10.04 and 10.10 sold people on it because it was a familiar intuitive UI that had a minimal learning curve when coming from Mac or Windows. I don't think Unity will win anyone over, other than the coders who don't have to come up with new screen metrics for tablets.
Sorry guys, I still don't see this catching on, and throwing it on netbooks will give the Microsoft FUD bunch more fuel to add to the "can't sell Linux" fire.
The kernel is not relevant. Android is a Java sanbox that happens to have a Linux kernel behind it. The kernel could easily be replaced with anything and it'd still be Android running Android native apps inside it's java runtime sandbox. Basically, you have some OS kernel on top of the hardware and the minimum software dependencies on top of that to support the Dalvik (the java runtime).
At best, Android is a minimal highly specialized distribution. It's a Palmtree; a stark naked trunk that's not of much use other than to support the green leaves and coconuts in the minority canopy.
General purpose Linux distributions are Evergreens; lots of green leafy ends that can stick out all up and down the trunk (software stack).
For a tablet running a full blown Linux based distribution, you'd be looking at something like Debian, Ubuntu, Mint, Mandriva, PCLinuxOS; general purpose distributions that would come with the intention of allowing a user to access the full software stack and naturally run applications throughout. A full cli command set and shell not just Bugbear emulating a shell plus separate tools like Grep. Cli native programs such as vim, emacs, aircrack, kismet. interchangeable GUI environments like Gnome, KDE, Unity. GUI native apps like wireshark, Libreoffice.
At best, Android is a minimal highly specialized distribution. It's a Palmtree; a stark naked trunk that's not of much use other than to support the green leaves and coconuts in the minority canopy.
General purpose Linux distributions are Evergreens; lots of green leafy ends that can stick out all up and down the trunk (software stack).
For a tablet running a full blown Linux based distribution, you'd be looking at something like Debian, Ubuntu, Mint, Mandriva, PCLinuxOS; general purpose distributions that would come with the intention of allowing a user to access the full software stack and naturally run applications throughout. A full cli command set and shell not just Bugbear emulating a shell plus separate tools like Grep. Cli native programs such as vim, emacs, aircrack, kismet. interchangeable GUI environments like Gnome, KDE, Unity. GUI native apps like wireshark, Libreoffice.
other portable personal digital device is clearly *not* the answer.
Windows 8 is going to be "tablet oriented" - but it is going to have the BULK of the rest of Windows supportability behind it, pulling down the performance of whatever machine you put it on.
iOS and Android and other minimal platforms are always going to perform *better* in these cases.
"Full" Linux on a tablet will attract hardcore Linux geeks and no one else. It would be less appealing than Win 8 tablets - which will probably be about as marketable as anesthetic-free root canals.
Windows 8 is going to be "tablet oriented" - but it is going to have the BULK of the rest of Windows supportability behind it, pulling down the performance of whatever machine you put it on.
iOS and Android and other minimal platforms are always going to perform *better* in these cases.
"Full" Linux on a tablet will attract hardcore Linux geeks and no one else. It would be less appealing than Win 8 tablets - which will probably be about as marketable as anesthetic-free root canals.
we're not talking full kernel but full distribution. Sure, provide a linux-kernel-tablet.deb package that has the non-relevant stuff left out of it. I'm sure this is exactly how it would be done. And you'd still get the benefits of a complete distribution stack on top of it versus a small fenced in yard to play in.
Maemo provided bugbear as a terminal environment versus the traditional shell+apps aproach (eg. bash + grep + sed). It was much closer to a full blown install and did actually provide a full blown install's features. With it's Maemo/moblin heritage, we'll see how well Meego performs once shipping on production hardware.
With something like Debian, it would not be hard at all to provide a tablet install tuned for performance while allowing folks to add in other components from the repositories. Canonical's intention to provide Unity standardization including a netbook/tablet install also shows potential. The rich enthusiast community rooting Android devices to add in missing userland and applications demonstrates a clear consumer desire outside of just the hardcore "Linux geeks" also.
And, given that tablet hardware resources are only going to increase. I mean, a few gigs of ram, gig processors; the hardware resources are there. Even now with Debian 6, it's not hard to do a snappy fully featured install on top of a single core aging processor and 512 meg of ram. One doesn't need to run Gnome3 or KDE4 just to get the functionality of a full distro install and once you remove those user interfaces; you really don't have much imposing resource demands on the system.
I wish I could find the link. There is actually a company doing a tablet with Debian and/or Ubuntu on it but the article has gotten burried under more recent news over at linuxdevices.
Maemo provided bugbear as a terminal environment versus the traditional shell+apps aproach (eg. bash + grep + sed). It was much closer to a full blown install and did actually provide a full blown install's features. With it's Maemo/moblin heritage, we'll see how well Meego performs once shipping on production hardware.
With something like Debian, it would not be hard at all to provide a tablet install tuned for performance while allowing folks to add in other components from the repositories. Canonical's intention to provide Unity standardization including a netbook/tablet install also shows potential. The rich enthusiast community rooting Android devices to add in missing userland and applications demonstrates a clear consumer desire outside of just the hardcore "Linux geeks" also.
And, given that tablet hardware resources are only going to increase. I mean, a few gigs of ram, gig processors; the hardware resources are there. Even now with Debian 6, it's not hard to do a snappy fully featured install on top of a single core aging processor and 512 meg of ram. One doesn't need to run Gnome3 or KDE4 just to get the functionality of a full distro install and once you remove those user interfaces; you really don't have much imposing resource demands on the system.
I wish I could find the link. There is actually a company doing a tablet with Debian and/or Ubuntu on it but the article has gotten burried under more recent news over at linuxdevices.
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