I understand the 'strength' side of the diversity issue, but I've long advocated a more monolithic approach to Linux in general, a more "microsoft approach."
Nobody would be comfortable killing a given project, say in order to consolidate efforts on whatever the task at hand. But a lot of projects die of their own accord, or sit undeveloped, unpatched as is for years.
I don't think it would be too hard to come to some consensus as to which tools should be the what to go versus which should be dropped. the world doesn't need 38 simple text editors, for example.
This would be the work of some consortium, perhaps of current Linux heavyweights like red hat and novell. People would be free to continue developing their own project, even if it is dropped from the "One Big Linux" effort. They just wouldn't be contributing to the mainstream. People would be encouraged to voluntarily drop development of their project if it has been slated for exclusion, and contribute to the collective agenda. But total freedom could be maintained in parallel with a more monolithic push for that elusive 'killer system.'
It wouldn't be a zero sum game, unless those 'tossed out' of the stream make it so voluntarily.
Discussion on:
View:
Show:
Most critics demand that separate products which happen to be based on the Linux kernel all be merged into one single "Linux". This is usually so "the market" fits a personal perception rather than expanding the expanding personal recognition that there are many separate products for different purposes which happen to be assembled from commodity parts. "To much choice" is also often leveled as a criticism by those who's only real purpose is to find reason to criticize a thing they've chosen to oppose. Yet others claim there is to much choice between separate products that happen to use the same OS kernel but then they turn around and talk bout Android ignoring the real fragmentation of something that claims to be a single product though delivered as one-off vendor customizations. Hurray, Microsoft is selling multiple distributions of Windows and this benefits the end user but stupid stinky 'Linux' available under multiple distributions is the end of the world. Don't dare provide relevant information that might clarify one's understanding of the situation. They want it to be all or nothing but only with the software platform that isn't there latest pet toy.
In the case of your comment; more standardization between commodity parts in major distributions (provided they do not conflict with reasons for the distribution's creation) without mandating that smaller distributions can't try new things. That makes for a more reasonable approach or compromise. More standard components between major distributions resulting in even faster development; fantastic. One single non-negotiable software stack that none may diverge from; heck no.
Backtrack really is a great example. It borrowed from and subsequently replaced three other specialty security distributions. Now again we see multiple distributions competing in the same space; Samurai and Backtrack providing web application testing, Backtrack and Live Hacker DVD providing even similar products. And none of this would have happened if distributions based on Linux had to exist out of a single one-size-fits-some OS culture. Competition will push Backtrack development forward or replace it and the end user will benefit.
I'm not sure a single software stack is even possible. The license these components are made available under permits diversity. Those who assemble and make distributions available find benefit in approaching problems in different ways from others who approach those same problems.
My grief remains with those who decry the variety of distributions that happen to use the Linux kernel then turn around and conveniently ignore or outright relish the diversity in product categories they have more preference for.
In the case of your comment; more standardization between commodity parts in major distributions (provided they do not conflict with reasons for the distribution's creation) without mandating that smaller distributions can't try new things. That makes for a more reasonable approach or compromise. More standard components between major distributions resulting in even faster development; fantastic. One single non-negotiable software stack that none may diverge from; heck no.
Backtrack really is a great example. It borrowed from and subsequently replaced three other specialty security distributions. Now again we see multiple distributions competing in the same space; Samurai and Backtrack providing web application testing, Backtrack and Live Hacker DVD providing even similar products. And none of this would have happened if distributions based on Linux had to exist out of a single one-size-fits-some OS culture. Competition will push Backtrack development forward or replace it and the end user will benefit.
I'm not sure a single software stack is even possible. The license these components are made available under permits diversity. Those who assemble and make distributions available find benefit in approaching problems in different ways from others who approach those same problems.
My grief remains with those who decry the variety of distributions that happen to use the Linux kernel then turn around and conveniently ignore or outright relish the diversity in product categories they have more preference for.
Linux works fine at nowadays, but it could be better, I've seen much people talking about that, well it is clean Linux has a big trouble to solve: There are dozens of distros, there are dozens of packages, components, applications that are doing the same tasks. I was wondering if all communities worldwide get engagement with two or three distros, what will going on? The answer is certainly would be toward better Linux operation systems, more reliable for use at enterprise, artistic jobs, games, education, and so on. We should follow the old jargon: "in some situation less is more!": Much people really believe that less distros & less ways to doing same tasks would take more quality on Linux world.
I've been a Netbook user for the last three years and have found the device to be quite useful. As a member of the great unemployed masses, gone back to school at age 58 to update my skills, I bought my Asus Netbook as a portable, LONG powered computing device to use on campus to aide in my studies. I've run Ubuntu's NBR on this device since day one, most recently updated to 11.04, and love it. I can easily get 7 to 8 hours of use without having to look for a wall plug, unlike my laptop brothers and sisters who are in constant search for an available wall plug. Ubuntu does everything I need for this device to do. No, it is not a workstation, it is a Netbook and must be viewed in that respect. Enough computing power to run the applications I need on a daily basis, pretty much all installed by default with Ubuntu at no out of pocket cost to a struggling student. Thanks to Ubuntu's lower system resource use I have all day power to do my work anywhere I find to sit down, even under a tree in the court yard when the weather is nice. Note : Since I've started to use my Netbook on campus, I've seen many a laptop user converting over to Netbooks. I've personally installed Ubuntu on several of these devices for the uninitiated user. So far, no one has returned to Windows.
Netbooks are useless. If you have a good laptop and do more than surf and email. Linux has been pre-installed on servers, desktops, netbooks and laptops so a move to tablets would be a big deal if you give a rip about tablets. What would actually be a big deal about linux is overcoming the massive weight of familiarity by being adopted by the masses, who think that virii and malware and crashes are just normal computer issues that all PC's have (and they think a PC is a windows computer). The term PC means 'personal computer' and simply refers to a hardware specification as developed by IBM in the '70s.
For you (and me) maybe. But look at the hands up here in this thread. And I know well over a dozen folks using netbooks almost exclusively. One is a horror story writer that does literally everything from story board to publishing, on this tiny netbook I could never use.
Like everything, there's more to personal taste than anything else.
Like everything, there's more to personal taste than anything else.
I bought my wife a netbook for her birthday. Put Ubuntu Netbook 10.04 - like the interface better on it.
I love it! Whenver she's looking for it, it's in my hands or my daughter's. Infinitely usable content CREATION device. Tablets are great content CONSUMERS.
When I can write code, write docs, use the services of our server environment and last 8hrs on batteries ... what more could I ask for? Well I could ask for it not to be pink. Oh, wait. It's my wife's - I need to buy my own.
I love it! Whenver she's looking for it, it's in my hands or my daughter's. Infinitely usable content CREATION device. Tablets are great content CONSUMERS.
When I can write code, write docs, use the services of our server environment and last 8hrs on batteries ... what more could I ask for? Well I could ask for it not to be pink. Oh, wait. It's my wife's - I need to buy my own.
Full-time programmer here and have been using my ASUS Netbook for nearly 3 years with Ubuntu for all my personal computing needs.
On http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/touchbook/
They market a tablet, expandable to a netbook, that runs their own version of Linux, along with Android, Ubuntu, and Chrome; and you can hotkey between applications and operating systems without performance loss.
They market a tablet, expandable to a netbook, that runs their own version of Linux, along with Android, Ubuntu, and Chrome; and you can hotkey between applications and operating systems without performance loss.
I am an electrical engineer and use my netbook exclusively (Aspire One). I did upgrade the RAM and put in a 500G hard drive - the larger, 7200 RPM drive actually extended battery life for me by about 20%. Installed Xubuntu for use at home. At work, I usually boot to Windows because of comparability with some of the design simulation software. I really have not found any down side to the netbook for day to day use. If I need a bigger screen, I have a 22" monitor that plugs into the VGA port. I use the monitor for circuit board layout and photo editing (GIMP).
Although i do like that linux has made a big enough stand to be considered for pre-installation on netbooks from one of the best component manufacturers in the industry. My years of helping people switch to linux i am saddened that ubuntu is the flava Asus has decided to go with. I think Linux Mint would be a much wiser choice as to keep users happy with the product. i have Several Clients that used to use a older version of ubuntu and would constantly get simple support type questions from them. Once I converted them to Linux Mint the calls stopped. Currently the only calls i get from them are generally hardware issues and confirmation on component compatibility, since i have instructed them on how to shop for hardware and peripherals for their Mint systems. But those users that are familiar with linux and linux heads will most likely install their own preferred flava's of *nix.
I won't get excited about communication gadgets until gesture input devices are replaced by voice input that needs no device training, hand held gadgets replaced by worn devices and replaced on Google-like services replaced by validated content data access service providers.
All the components already exist. Lip reading is in use by DHS, headset visor camera/reticule devices by the US armed forces, voice input 4th gen automatic attendant apps routinely screen calls to banks and credit card companies. The average new "smart phone" has more memory, cpu and hardware than is needed for any of these functions. Combined with 4G or later wireless online/cloud services and apps, these functions can all be integrated to provide the capability that we've been expecting for the past 20 years.
The web-based internet has become a dead-end, with minuscule amounts of information of value buried under vast amounts of redundant, irrelevant and worthless dreck. With human time being the scare resource, search engine companies driven by ad revenue each year makes it harder and more expensive, not easier and economic, to locate the gold within the garbage.
If Linux wants to win the hearts and minds battle, what it needs to do, is jump past the dead end "i" boxes and provide a home-based personal smart search agent utilizing paid and public databases, in conjunction with a hands-free smart agent device.
Linux is better suited as a platform for such persona agents than and product from Microsoft or Apple can ever be, Those relatively small companies are not interested in the services provided to the end-user, but in the revenue they can derive by being necessary middle men by virtue of proprietary access channels - Windows and Apple OS on x86 hardware, and websites driven by proprietary versions of html and/or databases tailored to fit their capabilities. Immature alternative OSs like Android don't solve the problem of the ad-sponsored web server channel model - they only seek to drive internet traffic through a particular proprietary web service provider.
Linux can also provide scalable data services with access that isn't dependent on html- formatted web pages - the last barrier to direct access to data. Human beings' sensory systems aren't evolved or designed for page formatted, advance-predicted link-connected information, they are free form and dynamically variable. Static linked websites don't meet this need. A proprietary GUIs forces the user to think in terms of one company's world view, binding innovation to restricted evolution within that company's ability to visualize the future. Proprietary GUIs become devastating and enervating each time the proprietor changes their design - expending the users' time and energy with no guaranty that whatever new features or services will provide a value that justifies the replacement of hardware, software and skills, and no guarantees of security, reliability, or suitability for use.
Any discussions of hardware, apps or desktop simply indicates the way that users have been brainwashed into thinking within the limited paradigms that Bill Gates and Steve Jobs introduced decades ago. Faster, cheaper and smaller are irrelevant measures of quality of information access and usage.
All the components already exist. Lip reading is in use by DHS, headset visor camera/reticule devices by the US armed forces, voice input 4th gen automatic attendant apps routinely screen calls to banks and credit card companies. The average new "smart phone" has more memory, cpu and hardware than is needed for any of these functions. Combined with 4G or later wireless online/cloud services and apps, these functions can all be integrated to provide the capability that we've been expecting for the past 20 years.
The web-based internet has become a dead-end, with minuscule amounts of information of value buried under vast amounts of redundant, irrelevant and worthless dreck. With human time being the scare resource, search engine companies driven by ad revenue each year makes it harder and more expensive, not easier and economic, to locate the gold within the garbage.
If Linux wants to win the hearts and minds battle, what it needs to do, is jump past the dead end "i" boxes and provide a home-based personal smart search agent utilizing paid and public databases, in conjunction with a hands-free smart agent device.
Linux is better suited as a platform for such persona agents than and product from Microsoft or Apple can ever be, Those relatively small companies are not interested in the services provided to the end-user, but in the revenue they can derive by being necessary middle men by virtue of proprietary access channels - Windows and Apple OS on x86 hardware, and websites driven by proprietary versions of html and/or databases tailored to fit their capabilities. Immature alternative OSs like Android don't solve the problem of the ad-sponsored web server channel model - they only seek to drive internet traffic through a particular proprietary web service provider.
Linux can also provide scalable data services with access that isn't dependent on html- formatted web pages - the last barrier to direct access to data. Human beings' sensory systems aren't evolved or designed for page formatted, advance-predicted link-connected information, they are free form and dynamically variable. Static linked websites don't meet this need. A proprietary GUIs forces the user to think in terms of one company's world view, binding innovation to restricted evolution within that company's ability to visualize the future. Proprietary GUIs become devastating and enervating each time the proprietor changes their design - expending the users' time and energy with no guaranty that whatever new features or services will provide a value that justifies the replacement of hardware, software and skills, and no guarantees of security, reliability, or suitability for use.
Any discussions of hardware, apps or desktop simply indicates the way that users have been brainwashed into thinking within the limited paradigms that Bill Gates and Steve Jobs introduced decades ago. Faster, cheaper and smaller are irrelevant measures of quality of information access and usage.
I've been reading what I can on them when they pop up from time to time. The latest is a rugged set of modules attached to combat gear including a flip out screen on the chest which collapses closed should the user need to be promptly prone. Ultimately, these handtop devices could simply be the processing module; touchy tablet when alone or wearable computer core when assembled. Technically with smartphones, earbuds and such attached by wireless PAN; we're already using the early consumer wearable systems.
http://techie-buzz.com/foss/ubuntu-for-tablet-pcs-coming-soon.html
If there are netbooks for those that want them, and tablets for those who want them, that's just supply and demand that will determine what sells better. Maybe one person who sees an Ubuntu netbook will be drawn to an Ubuntu tablet.
I think that if a desktop is small and compact enough to not take a lot of room up in the home, that Ubuntu on a home desktop can be continually enjoyed, especially with these new combined machines, that combine tablet, detachable keyboard, and phone. The desktop can evolve past the way they look presently, but still be the computer we use at home, and still be called a desktop.
Kinda like a Transformer, Optimus.
If there are netbooks for those that want them, and tablets for those who want them, that's just supply and demand that will determine what sells better. Maybe one person who sees an Ubuntu netbook will be drawn to an Ubuntu tablet.
I think that if a desktop is small and compact enough to not take a lot of room up in the home, that Ubuntu on a home desktop can be continually enjoyed, especially with these new combined machines, that combine tablet, detachable keyboard, and phone. The desktop can evolve past the way they look presently, but still be the computer we use at home, and still be called a desktop.
Kinda like a Transformer, Optimus.
I've looked into this many times; it's my pet side project. You just can't get a decent Linux laptop for under a G. They are out there, but they are either not cheap enough to illicit my interest or they are just too small. Dell, HP, Lenovo, Asus, and Acer, have this the laptop business locked down.
Periodically, I've gone out shopping for parts to build and sell them online myself and the parts just aren't there - OR - the number of units you would have to buy takes me out of the running.
And, I want to say: God bless those that have cracked the nut; System 76, Linux Certified, EmperorLinux, LinPC, and ThinkPenguin. But, they are so expensive that these laptops are not AS within-reach as their mainstream counterparts.
Dell has put some (minimal) effort into it but Celeron processors? Please! It seems obvious, at least to me, that this may be out of self interest. It's sure is a good way to get rid of those old processors that no one would buy otherwise.
What we need to do is put the same kinds of pressure, from a community stand-point, on the big manufacturers, as Microsoft does. And, don't they? You do your research and report back. An air-tight contract between Microsoft and the manufacturers is the only explanation.
There is The Windows Refund:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_refund
But should it be necessary to buy a $5-600 laptop with Windows installed for modern hardware just to wipe the drive, install Linux, then spend the next 2 months fighting with Microsoft on the phone for a $100?
I'm sure Ballmer is happy knowing he can say in public, "Nobody really takes Linux seriously.", knowing it's because Linux is (more than likely) kept out of the market by a shrewd contractual obligation. It probably tickles him pink.
I'm Microsoft's real fear is a Linux laptop that doesn't need much in the way of repair. People working in harmony - actually getting work done. An entire support industry would plummet but it wouldn't be a bad re-adjustment. What happens when you're not fixing your computer? For most of us, we are building something new with it, and higher productivity ain't bad. Although it's not selling more Macs (or is it?).
Fixing this problem - THIS would be news. Another netbook? Jack, I agree with you, so few people care. I'd never get my work done on a 10" laptop.
If there is a solution to this problem then we'll have news. Let me know when it breaks. Myself and a few million others would be interested.
Periodically, I've gone out shopping for parts to build and sell them online myself and the parts just aren't there - OR - the number of units you would have to buy takes me out of the running.
And, I want to say: God bless those that have cracked the nut; System 76, Linux Certified, EmperorLinux, LinPC, and ThinkPenguin. But, they are so expensive that these laptops are not AS within-reach as their mainstream counterparts.
Dell has put some (minimal) effort into it but Celeron processors? Please! It seems obvious, at least to me, that this may be out of self interest. It's sure is a good way to get rid of those old processors that no one would buy otherwise.
What we need to do is put the same kinds of pressure, from a community stand-point, on the big manufacturers, as Microsoft does. And, don't they? You do your research and report back. An air-tight contract between Microsoft and the manufacturers is the only explanation.
There is The Windows Refund:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_refund
But should it be necessary to buy a $5-600 laptop with Windows installed for modern hardware just to wipe the drive, install Linux, then spend the next 2 months fighting with Microsoft on the phone for a $100?
I'm sure Ballmer is happy knowing he can say in public, "Nobody really takes Linux seriously.", knowing it's because Linux is (more than likely) kept out of the market by a shrewd contractual obligation. It probably tickles him pink.
I'm Microsoft's real fear is a Linux laptop that doesn't need much in the way of repair. People working in harmony - actually getting work done. An entire support industry would plummet but it wouldn't be a bad re-adjustment. What happens when you're not fixing your computer? For most of us, we are building something new with it, and higher productivity ain't bad. Although it's not selling more Macs (or is it?).
Fixing this problem - THIS would be news. Another netbook? Jack, I agree with you, so few people care. I'd never get my work done on a 10" laptop.
If there is a solution to this problem then we'll have news. Let me know when it breaks. Myself and a few million others would be interested.
Jack most of the time I find myself agreeing with you, but lately the DRM and now this. Yikes.
I love my netbooks! Yes both of them. I liked the first one so much I got a second one. The battery life is phenomenal for me plus I get a keyboard that actually allows me to type. Not having to lug around my heavy, massive, heat producing work laptop certainly makes me happy.
Don't mistake my comment to mean I don't like tablets, iPads, EVOs and such. They have their place and it is a different hole than what the Netbook fills. Just don't let your opinion of the Netbook be the only or loudest opinion.
I love my netbooks! Yes both of them. I liked the first one so much I got a second one. The battery life is phenomenal for me plus I get a keyboard that actually allows me to type. Not having to lug around my heavy, massive, heat producing work laptop certainly makes me happy.
Don't mistake my comment to mean I don't like tablets, iPads, EVOs and such. They have their place and it is a different hole than what the Netbook fills. Just don't let your opinion of the Netbook be the only or loudest opinion.
3 Yrz ago i bought an Asus EeePC 900 with Linux pre installed.
It was Xandros, what a pig!
I ditched Xandros for Ubuntu Immediately.
I had cut my desk top Linux teeth on Xandros 5 yrz ago and,
Ubuntu was a breath of fresh air after the switch.
I use my net book every day as i would probably use a tablet.
A quick email checker and surfer.
I plan on buying a tablet in the fall, after some shake out.
I want one thats Linuxable.
So, i agree that some tablet vendor out there should "grow a pair", and
offer a full on Linux tablet.
I cant wait!
It was Xandros, what a pig!
I ditched Xandros for Ubuntu Immediately.
I had cut my desk top Linux teeth on Xandros 5 yrz ago and,
Ubuntu was a breath of fresh air after the switch.
I use my net book every day as i would probably use a tablet.
A quick email checker and surfer.
I plan on buying a tablet in the fall, after some shake out.
I want one thats Linuxable.
So, i agree that some tablet vendor out there should "grow a pair", and
offer a full on Linux tablet.
I cant wait!
But only for work. Corporate has decided that the netbook is the way to go for its field technicians. I hate it. My major complaint? Small. The keyboard, the display, all of it. Too small. I'm a touch typist, and unless I slow down significantly, my fingers are tripping over each other all the time. I pretty much have to scroll to see anything in any application. And just to add insult to injury, the model corporate is providing has the stupid glossy display and no Bluetooth! WTF? Who makes a portable computer without Bluetooth these days? (Gateway, fwiw.)
Linux on a netbook? For me, it's a waste.
edit: trippy fingers
Linux on a netbook? For me, it's a waste.
edit: trippy fingers
Our Field Techs don't get notebooks at all, but are issue a Palm based device that does email, and gives them remote access to the technical databses. Constant complaints eminate. When we send them emails, they hate to respond.
I'd try to figure out a way to get that information onto a laptop, or, at the very least, kill some trees with it.
I've had a Palm, issued when I was teaching. It was convenient for taking notes during faculty and other meetings, but that was about it. If I wanted to do anything with those notes, I synced to my desktop or laptop.
I've had a Palm, issued when I was teaching. It was convenient for taking notes during faculty and other meetings, but that was about it. If I wanted to do anything with those notes, I synced to my desktop or laptop.
With each new Palm, my first accessories where a hard case (Innopocket did a great metal form fitting case) and a folding travel keyboard I could easly pop out when needed. Graffiti remains the best hand input method I've used (fastest, most accurate) but nothing can yet replace a full sized phyisical keyboard for anyone beyond the hunt-n-peck skill level.
I also devised a series of abbreviations that I could use in the note files. Then, when I transferred the files to the desktop, I ran a macro that expanded all the abbreviations.
An original Acer Aspire running Ubuntu 11.04 (Unity!!). Faster than WinXP. Using LibreOffice. Even my wife likes it! Uses it daily. Takes it traveling.
Back in the UK, you would be grateful to see any type of computer with linux pre-installed languishing on the high street shelves.Our fair trade laws are about as toothless as a gummy eunuch. It is a bit galling to buy something with windows on only to wipe it off and no we can't get a refund here. As for netbooks, mine works fine with, or without. plugging in a bigger screen.
Roy.
Roy.
I have installed UNE on a netbook for my 9 year old Grandson. His hands fit the keyboard nicely. I have a netbook with UNE that I use for my hobby, Amateur Radio, more so than my laptop because battery life is superior to the laptop for offline power use. I think that it is a great idea that Linux is pre-installed on three different netbooks, but I would like to see it offered as an option on desktop PC's, and someday on a tablet.
- Keyboard Shortcuts:
- Prev
- Next
- Toggle
