Discussion on:

Should technology push out cursive writing instruction?

My writing is normally all capitalised apart from when I know I'm writing for someone else to read, I very rarely write anything professional, its normally all typed now if i want it to look neat. However, i still think its important to know how to write cursive.

If students don't write in cursive, how will they sign their names on legal documents?
(Just make an "X" here...)
I guess that isn't an "essential life skill" any more, but putting a condom on a vegetable is.

It's just another example of the disaster that American education has become. And the decision is being made at the State level. OMG.

Even then, when was the last time you saw a signature (besides your own?) that was actually legible in any script, font or language?

That is what makes a signature unique and harder to forge. Try typing your name on the back of your check and see what happens. I wish these micro-cephalic morons would quit trying to dumb down the educational system. What happens when the battery goes dead on your keyboard operations? Yeah, I know, just go to sleep and wait for the government to come to your rescue!

I always "Print" my name on all legal documents. I've never been told by anyone more than a powerless and insolent paper pusher not to do that. I set that guy right the first time he rejected it, and his boss got all over his case. (It was a rookie deputy sheriff and his partner and trainer quickly slapped him around verbally for it.)

The failure to teach children to read and write in cursive is another indication of the failures of our education system. School is supposed to be a place to which you go to get an education. That means more that just acquiring job skills. We already have a couple of generations of kids who have no concept of grammar and spelling because of spell check and grammar check. (And to anyone acquainted with the rules of grammar, it is clearly obvious that MS Word is NOT always right.) We also have a couple of generations of kids that can not do basic addition or subtraction without the aid of calculator. (How often, have you provided a cashier with $1.03 to pay for a $.78 product, only to have he or she stare at you blankly, unable to realize that you want a quarter back as your change.) In addition, how many people under 35 can perform differentials and integrals manually on paper, or solve Algebraic equations, execute long division, convert Centigrade to Fahrenheit, or even calculate tips in their head? How many under the age of 35 have even heard of Issac Newton and his laws of motion, particularly the first law, which is the key to understanding how to drive in snow, and the third law, the lack of understanding of which causes so many accidental injuries? And the knowledge of history is so abysmal, that people can not see history repeating itself, right before their eyes. Today's powers that be only want to provide the people with the skills needed to carry out the tasks that they require to work and hold down a job. That's not education that's vocational training. It's what, in the old days, we used to considered as suitable only for the "dumb kids". Remember the statement by Sherlock Holmes in "A Study in Scarlet"? After Watson tells him the earth revolves around the Sun, he replies "Now that you've told me I shall endeavour to forget it", because he did not want to know anything that did not pertain to his work. That is the situation that we are tending to in our so-called education system.

Joeller puts forth a well thought out response. I shall keep this one to refer to again.
Toni Bowers does not explain what cursive means. I guess I will go to my dictionary.

Or should we say, the necessary skills and usually not even that? I am a white person born and raised in apartheid-era South Africa. Our government decided that blacks did not need a good education as they were only destined to be "hewers of wood and carriers of water." In 1976 the black youth rose up against the white government, demanding better education, and in time that led to the release of Nelson Mandela and a free democracy.

That's why it's tragic to see a free country voluntarily applying a system that qualifies school graduates only to be "hewers of wood and carriers of water." America you used to lead the whole world; now the hungry countries are shooting past you.

lacking of basic skills (simple math, unit conversion) or not knowing about Issac Newton is related to cursive writing how may I ask?
Does a person that writes in block letters, or hand printing is not capable of learning any of those skills?

How exactly does learning to write in cursive impacts the level of education (as in knowing to do basic math and learning about Newton that is)?

Also, because this is an age of text speak (BTW, LOL, OMG, TTYL, etc), many people have forgotten how to interview. Articles have been written about this subject and employers have griped about this subject. As much as we are progressing with technology, we are also digressing as a society. For those of us who were born before the 1990s, technology is great. We experienced the manual way of life. But for those who come after us, they will never know what a dial is on a phone. They will never really know what it was like to use a pay phone. Better yet, they will soon know what it's like to not read a book that is bound because of the e-readers. At what point do we stop interfering with the human soul and replacing it with a droid?

Sorry joeller. It's"... only to have HIM or HER stare at you blankly ..."
You are an intelligent and aware person, and it underscores your point (for which I voted positively.) The great unwashed masses are barely literate in their own language.

Yes, the cashiers stare blankly at me when trying to make change. Most go into shock if I playfully (and truthfully) answer their "Paper or plastic?" with "Yes." They can't wrap their heads around that simple level of basic logic.

By the way, I can still perform long division and square roots on paper.

and the person just scrawled a line and were given the money.

Because I always write a signature, the evidence was clear that the transaction was fraudulent.

You can write "Mickey Mouse" on the check and they'll probably accept that too, but if it's ever questioned it becomes a problem.

Who still gets a paycheck? It is all direct deposit unless you're working for Mr. Slate at the rock quarry.

Quite right - mind you it's happening in the UK too. Home of Shakespeare, what can I tell you?

Shakespeare was born on 26 April 1564 and died on 23 April 1616. The Act of Union which created The United Kingdom took effect in 1707.

"... putting a condom on a vegetable ..."
Did you mean a practice garden vegeatable or an illiterate product of our dubious educational system. Or both? I can easily image one of our modern youth telling his girlfriend, "Wait, before we do it, I have to go to the fridge and put a condom on a cucumber to keep us safe, like they taught us in school."

When AIDS was first discovered, the television advertisement that tried to scare people about it showed a stonemason cutting a tombstone to the tune of Dies Irae. Sure enough, when viewers were asked what sort of people were likely to contract the wonderful new disease, a lot of 'em said, "Stonemasons."

Cursive made sense before keyboarding became common. It just makes sense to let the letters flow from one to another. Saves time and space.

In college tho, I learned to print my notes else I couldn't read them after. My hurried, scribbled cursive was illegible. So neatness does count.

All languages change. Take a look at this example of old english:

http://www.omniglot.com/writing/oldenglish.htm

Question - do you only print your name on cheques, credit cards, legal documents, etc.? I suggest you are leaving yourself vulnerable to forgery...

A unique written signature seems essential for checks and other documents.

Back in the olden days people just made an X because they didn't know how to write at all. Anything you use as a signature can be forged. Forging cursive is no harder than forging printing. Both have their unique characteristics. Looking at my wife's signature you'd never guess her name from it. It almost looks like a work of art, so it isn't messy, but it is her signature.

That all said, there is no need for learning cursive in grade school. If you want to read historical documents odds are there is a plain text version on the web. If you want to study it, then learn cursive. I can read and write both, but print for the most part, but type much more than I write anything. With electronic banking and credit/debit cards I don't need to write checks.

In the end typing will serve children better than cursive. Now on to the next question, which keyboard layout do we teach, since the QWERTY keyboard was designed to slow you down?

I agree with this update.

Further in the the case of checks, the banking rules have changed. A check has the amount in two locations - the first is numerical and the second is written out. When I graduated high school, if the amounts differed, then the check was paid for the spelled out amount. Today, the scanners only look at the numerical amount and that is what is paid.

Very recently, I wrote a check that did not have the spelled amount, but a clearly written numerical amount and a prominent commercial bank did not honor it for the business I wrote it out to causing them to be (initially) charged $35 for a "non-compliant device". Luckily, it was straightened out w/o the extra charge or I'm sure the business would have been after me for it.

The bank we use for work only complained when the printer put the micr code at the bottom of the cheque a few millimetres too far to the left and their machine could not read it. We were told no person reads the cheque unless there is a problem that the machine cannot handle.

When I WRITE the amount on a check, I print the letters and I have never had a check returned or even sniffed.

Great! Let's have the next generation revert back to "the olden days" and just make a "mark" because they "didn't know how to write at all".

Thanks in part to Twitter, e-mail, IM, etc., many of today's students are unable to spell words with more than one syllable, can't diagram a sentence, and are unable to type a comprehensive paragraph. And now "there is no need for leaning cursive in grade school".

Let's just do away with teaching math as well. Just teach the children how to turn on a computer or calculator and.......

Say Johnny, how much is 76 x 13? Little Johnny (age 27) whips out his cell phone, with a calculator application, and proudly gives his answer. Of course, that is if his cell phone is working.

Not to mention their inability to use the correct homonyms.

NT

Homonyms? No, the kids today confuse not only homonyms but also allonyms. I recently saw "waiters" where the writer was trying to say "waders" (boots!)

lucalus you're phasing me out. They'res no weigh!

Go to any restaurant with a member of the opposite sex. Your waiter will come up to serve "you guys".

Without argument, skilled writing is sadly lacking in today's education. However, writing is not penmanship. Writing, as in being able to write, is putting coherent, reasoned thoughts on paper using a pen, pencil or other such writing device. There is absolutely no correlation between the quality of those those and the font (which is what cursive is, after all).

Maybe that is why is why people are arguing for cursive. That way thay can write poorly, knowing no one will ever bother reading their mindless scribble.

Gender is a dead duck now. There is simply no hope that corporate authors will get back to the Victorian grammar rules that "the male imports the female" and "the gender of an unknown individual is masculine."

Thus, "Each member shall pay his subscription before 1 February" is correct. So is "When a member of staff comes into the building he shall wear a name badge with his photograph." To writers of Hellspeak, also known as modern corporate English, the meaning is not fully apparent unless you change "his" to "his or her" and "he" to "he or she," which results in a horribly clumsy chunk of writing which conveys precisely the same meaning.

Aside from the script, which has only a passing relationship to modern cursive, the language itself has changed so much that it needs to be studied before one can be sure he/she actually understands the document.

"I don't need to write checks..." Then why are checks still around? Do you give your bank account to a rebate company instead of receiving a rebate check from them?
"Forging cursive..." Have you ever tried forging your wife's signature? How do you know it is as easy as forging printing? Try passing it off as hers and let me know if you weere successful...

Cursive is not a requirement of signatures, only consistancy.

The rest of the check should be printed to eliminated cashiers error.

My dad was a lawyer, a busy one. He signed dozens of papers every day. His "signature" was a little loop, exactly like the "yellow ribbon" magnets you see on cars. (or pink, black, but same shape) The open ends pointed off to the right, like 2/3 of the "infinity" symbol with the missing bit at the end.

I asked him numerous times why he did that, as it would be so easy to forge. Sometimes his answer was "because I can," but in a more serious mood he would explain.

Being who he was, if asked anything in dispute before a judge, the judge would have a tendency to believe him over some mundane, who was there because they were being sued, anyway. Much like your word versus a cop in traffic court.

So depending on the situation, he could either confirm or deny that 'that' was his signature on a given document. "Did you sign this, Bob?" If "yes" was to his advantage, then yes it was...

You can do the same thing, though you're not going to have the automatic deference.

Except for the signature space. Are you one who ignores the "PLEASE PRINT" that has appeared prominently on every form I've ever filled out?

That is false. My printed signature has as much variety and "flair" as any cursive signature. Given a chance to see any printed signature of my own, I can declare it "Genuine" or "Forged" and so could anyone else with handwriting analysis ability.

In fact, my cursive signature is "textbook perfect" and more easily forged by anyone than my print.

That is elusive. Striving for "textbook perfect" and failing miserably is why so many, me included, print nearly everything. A skilled forger can copy any signature, be it cursive or printed.

it's the only thing that is. When taking notes in a hurry I can read my print but not my own cursive.

I'm ambivalent towards teaching cursive in school. It won't bother me if they keep teaching it, but I don't really see the point to it anymore. Unless we're really trying to teach them something else? Neatness, attention to finnicky details, not so fast - slow down?

Mine is like said above a mix of printing and cursive, and uless time is taken, is not very legible. I do try to cursively sign my name except on those electronic cc things, I have a terrible time of getting it close to legible. My mother at 85 has very nice cursive writing, my dad never did, his printing was almost illegible. My wife uses cursive mostly as well.

I actually dropped cursive sometime in Middle school because no one else was writing in cursive. In college, it just didn't exist, everything was on the computer. Misspoke in other comment, the only time I see cursive in daily life at all, is signatures. But I can't read people's signatures anyway because people write it so quickly. My signature is unreadable.

The point is that it is unique and therefore you can prove when someone tries to use it fraudulently...