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I have to agree that the only reason MS has enjoyed the success it has was due to marketing. Technically it has always been behind.
Microsoft has always been a marketing driven company. Their legacy is not one of innovation but of buying something and marketing it better than the competition.
Linux on the other hand as you point out is completely at the other end of that spectrum. Linux has always been driven by technology and by engineers not marketers.
Microsoft has always been a marketing driven company. Their legacy is not one of innovation but of buying something and marketing it better than the competition.
Linux on the other hand as you point out is completely at the other end of that spectrum. Linux has always been driven by technology and by engineers not marketers.
why doesn't it have - as part of its structure, not as add-ons - such elementary programming helps as fixed line numbers and cross-references? Why is the Unisys 2200, a far more comfortable system, not top of the heap instead of any kind of UNIX at all? Why is IBM replacing the clunky ISPF on TSO on MVS with the even clunkier Unix environment? Something crazy is going on.
Engineers want create grow and become well know for there work, and unfortynatly they don't get recognize until the pass away, which quincidently lunix original father pass away with out being recognized for his work. My point is being and engineer and a market sales adict I see both sides of the table and want to have the enginenerrs perspective to understand money is the root of hard earn work. Create all you want, and let the marketing intelligence community help all engineer, weather individual or group colabration receive the credit and finacial reward well deserved.
When you have deals with OEM manufacturers to sell only Windows exclusively, it is extremely easy to to dominate the desktop. This was one of the issues that Microsoft was charged with in the anti-trust suit. Unfortunately, it is still mostly true. Find a retailer that sells an OS that is Not a Microsoft Windows or an Apple product.
Much is made in this article about the evils of big business and its corporate marketing profit machine. Marketing is also highly successful in NotForProfit segments as well.
"Not without business behind it. Not without marketing and PR and power."
The corporate environment doesnt own marketing strategy.
The Linux community could easily replicate the success of corporate PR. The use of Social Network marketing has made this even easier and more credible for the Linux and Open Source Community.
What is missing is a marketing collaboration that mirrors the technical network and contribution framework.
The message to the market should be a coordinated voice that the user can easy navigate. This relates to product searching, app searching, basic commands, common shortcuts in the interface and even help with CLI commands and scripts. There is a lot of talent out there right now working independently and coming up with amazing developments. That work should be reflected in better marketing groups that represent and communicate these developments in a more holistic way.
At the moment, each distro has its specific advantages that are not recognised by the rest of the community and they even seem to compete. The result is noise to the market as the eager try to push the merits of their preferred distro in a game of "My Dad is better than Your Dad"
There is no real cross marketing, no clear message, no central Linux-agnostic platform for communication. Distrowatch is one of many competing channels representing uncoordinated efforts to address this. While I fully understand that this is what the open source community is about, it is not really an optimal solution for widening the user base.
Harnessing the energy and exuberance of the Linux community as a positive experience to reduce the noise and build the communication with its market and user experience is a really straight forward value proposition that would greatly benefit everyone.
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"Not without business behind it. Not without marketing and PR and power."
The corporate environment doesnt own marketing strategy.
The Linux community could easily replicate the success of corporate PR. The use of Social Network marketing has made this even easier and more credible for the Linux and Open Source Community.
What is missing is a marketing collaboration that mirrors the technical network and contribution framework.
The message to the market should be a coordinated voice that the user can easy navigate. This relates to product searching, app searching, basic commands, common shortcuts in the interface and even help with CLI commands and scripts. There is a lot of talent out there right now working independently and coming up with amazing developments. That work should be reflected in better marketing groups that represent and communicate these developments in a more holistic way.
At the moment, each distro has its specific advantages that are not recognised by the rest of the community and they even seem to compete. The result is noise to the market as the eager try to push the merits of their preferred distro in a game of "My Dad is better than Your Dad"
There is no real cross marketing, no clear message, no central Linux-agnostic platform for communication. Distrowatch is one of many competing channels representing uncoordinated efforts to address this. While I fully understand that this is what the open source community is about, it is not really an optimal solution for widening the user base.
Harnessing the energy and exuberance of the Linux community as a positive experience to reduce the noise and build the communication with its market and user experience is a really straight forward value proposition that would greatly benefit everyone.
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Agreed - give it a rest. Linux is great - for those of us who like to play underneath the hood. Those that just want to use the computer as a tool and not worry about the underpinnings are just not going to go there.
When looking under the hood, can you tweek reliability and speed, verse us less extra encryption?
Yes, I'm no geek just a curious experienced Windows user. I found Puppy 5 and Linux Mint LXDE 9 achilles heel to be the myriad of Dependencies required to get certain new software easily installed. And dual boot wasn't so simple to implement either. In the end, I have too many other things to do than be a mechanic to keep my car running. The lack of user-friendly 2D and 3D CAD software was a deal breaker too (though DraftSight has since helped with the former.)
But I still keep a LiveCD around in case Win7 craps out:)
But I still keep a LiveCD around in case Win7 craps out:)
I have tinkered with various Linux distributions for many years but ultimately my daily machine is Windows despite all its issues and security woes, although in 7 it is markedly better than XP in this respect - but i would still welcome a full XP desktop on 7 in the same great way that gnome and KDE can be installed over the base OS. If they did this MS would be on a winner.
Anyway, linux is very good but for those who have -
1. significant technical ability hence the reason why it is so widely adopted for networks.
2. desktop users who have very straightforward needs and no legacy windows that they want to keep on using.
Yes linux has some great and easy and complex tools but most people still want to use the favourite apps and Wine is simply not good not simple enough.
Anyway, linux is very good but for those who have -
1. significant technical ability hence the reason why it is so widely adopted for networks.
2. desktop users who have very straightforward needs and no legacy windows that they want to keep on using.
Yes linux has some great and easy and complex tools but most people still want to use the favourite apps and Wine is simply not good not simple enough.
Ubuntu is great. You need minimal technical skills. There's a vast number of applications out there and although you probably won't find Microsoft Office you can find alternatives to each individual app and also the Office suite itself.
Wine works a little and if it's not good enough try Virtualbox.
Good information but about 5 years old...
Wine works a little and if it's not good enough try Virtualbox.
Good information but about 5 years old...
...such as Ubuntu since version 6, Suse, Knoppix, Puppy, Slack, Fedora, Mandrake, Mandriva, etc. Yes many of those are truly excellent but the masses of problems that I had getting basic things like monitors, printers and wifi to work over the years was simply too much effort for me and most other people simply gave up for sure!
As I said, place someone in front of linux desktop and most users will be impressed with the familiarity yet more initial simplicity that Windows, at least before KDE 4 and Gnome 3. But when the problems and bugs hit, or want to "install" their favourite app or use a printer not listed, and they are left on their own and get frustrated and fall back to Windows familiarity. Fully supported, then they are happier.
I agree that far more users should be using linux but they are not, for various reasons, mainly unfamiliarity and competition from Apple etc. But linux has a great future with Android and perhaps other distributions, but it will take more time and we are not there yet. All the squabling between various linux "factions" also does not help and diverts development efforts into a high quality product - Ubuntu has realised this and I wish them good luck, but I think their money may run out soon, although I hope not.
As I said, place someone in front of linux desktop and most users will be impressed with the familiarity yet more initial simplicity that Windows, at least before KDE 4 and Gnome 3. But when the problems and bugs hit, or want to "install" their favourite app or use a printer not listed, and they are left on their own and get frustrated and fall back to Windows familiarity. Fully supported, then they are happier.
I agree that far more users should be using linux but they are not, for various reasons, mainly unfamiliarity and competition from Apple etc. But linux has a great future with Android and perhaps other distributions, but it will take more time and we are not there yet. All the squabling between various linux "factions" also does not help and diverts development efforts into a high quality product - Ubuntu has realised this and I wish them good luck, but I think their money may run out soon, although I hope not.
I did look at the options and consulted the forums and other resources. But at a certain point one realizes there's no escape from dependency hell as one other reviewer called it.
FYI, Linux Mint is built on Ubuntu and considered even slicker and easier to use. Windows isn't perfect but the majority of applications install easily including LibreOffice, my office choice.
FYI, Linux Mint is built on Ubuntu and considered even slicker and easier to use. Windows isn't perfect but the majority of applications install easily including LibreOffice, my office choice.
Once you move out of the preinstalled apps that come with the package manager it becomes a total pain in the arse. I have had a Linux box kicking around since 99 (I am a web developer) and invariably I get stuck in some sort of dependency hell or some such and go back to Windows (security flaws and all), Because, you know, it just works. It is a fantastic server and is my favorite development platform but as a desktop it is just not worth the time.
Your right, even top class engineers struggle to get some simple thing done with Linux i.e. getting a RTL 8192 USB working. Don't get me wrong I love Linux and use it as my 2nd desktop but when things don't work..............
Linux is not guilty of RTL8192 and other stuff doesn't work (on kernels before 3) but vendors, who are locked-in by windows dominance. And they don't have the intention to give drivers only for 4% of the market and the cost. But some of them don't want either to share technical information to other do the job. I think that is not fair pointed out the Linux as guilty but vendors and M$ indirectly for that.
The problems with hardware incompatability with Linux is a problem between Linux and the manufacturers. Microsoft has nothing to do with these problems. You stated it quite clearly in the beginning of your statement. For 4% of the market share they will not jump through hoops. The fact that if they make a driver compatable with one instance of Linux will it be compatible with all instances. And since Linux is ever changing will they have to continually change the drivers to keep up. This would be a big investment for them. So who is going to pony up the cash to make it worth their time and effort. I have worked for a manufacturer who had to go through the process to determine feasability for designing compatability with Linux. All the studies we did came out with us losing money. Businesses are not going to work toward a losing conclusion. You complain about them not releasing their technical information. This always costs and I know that no one in the Linux distro market was willing to pay us for the information about our products. They felt that since they were providing their software "free" that we should be willing to provide our patented information free of charge also. Sorry, business isn't done that way. We worked with Microsoft and Apple who both had no problems paying to be able to have there products work with our products. So please, just cause you like Linux above the rest don't put the blame on anyone but the Linux manufacturers and the hardware manufacturers for these issues.
remember when DOS was king and Windows was a little anomaly competing against FrameWork and WindowDOS? VisiCalc? WordStar? OS/2?
Look at the massive changes in Apple - does anyone remember AppleSoft on the ][e?
Many products have come and gone. Linux has found a niche, albeit a modest one. And it has demonstrated its staying power.
Happy birthday penguin, and thanks Mr. Torvalds.
Look at the massive changes in Apple - does anyone remember AppleSoft on the ][e?
Many products have come and gone. Linux has found a niche, albeit a modest one. And it has demonstrated its staying power.
Happy birthday penguin, and thanks Mr. Torvalds.
My first exposure to computers was back in the days of the Apple II -- not even the IIe, but the II+ that preceded it. Ah, the good old days when you didn't have hard drives, your OS loaded on a 5.25" floppy, & you then switched it out for another floppy to save your programs -- & you could save a bit of money by buying the "single-sided" 720kB floppies (where you had to actually flip the disk over to , use a single hole punch, & convert them into "double-sided" floppies
Of course, it also had to compete against the Commodore VIC-20 & 64, the various Amigas, the *Atari* computers (Atari 400 & 800), & even Texas Instruments (oh, the hated "membrane" keyboards!).
Of course, it also had to compete against the Commodore VIC-20 & 64, the various Amigas, the *Atari* computers (Atari 400 & 800), & even Texas Instruments (oh, the hated "membrane" keyboards!).
The floppy start up process is faster than today preloaded win InIfiles. That would be a great myth buster test, which one is faster............
I was an engineering manager at DEC when Linus Torvald first contacted Gordon Bell about a portable operating system based on the VMS system calls. That was in 1980 as I recall. It was roughly a year later that he produced the initial kernel of Linux.
The concept of the Hardware Abstraction Layer was being developed by many groups at that time. When David Cutler left Digital for Microsoft, it became part of the Windows architecture and led to the adoption of the name NT.
What event are you taking as the start of Linux to come up with 20 years?
The concept of the Hardware Abstraction Layer was being developed by many groups at that time. When David Cutler left Digital for Microsoft, it became part of the Windows architecture and led to the adoption of the name NT.
What event are you taking as the start of Linux to come up with 20 years?
Most people use the date of his usenet post in 1991 as the anniversary. I don't know what Linus himself considers to be the anniversary date...
http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/40457-linus-thorvalds-first-linux-post/
http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/40457-linus-thorvalds-first-linux-post/
Where the heck is the like button when you need it...
I'm also in agreement with gshindledecker and rfolden@... give it a rest already. You've got Ubuntu out there which works as an awesome desktop os and your servers cannot be touched by any of the competition. But that's not good enough for you, you have to have everything? You know who that sounds like don't you?
And the difference between MS and Linux's success isn't marketing, it's money. Microsoft has the money to buy the things it needs to make it's product successful. Linux doesn't, it has to rely on it's engineers in order to get the thing it wants/needs...
Lastly I just want to ask how can someone act like linux is still concidered unknown to those of us that aren't in the field? What I mean is that more people own Droid phones then they do windows or macs. And I find it hard to believe that only 4% of all computers in the world use linux...I find that very hard to believe.
I'm also in agreement with gshindledecker and rfolden@... give it a rest already. You've got Ubuntu out there which works as an awesome desktop os and your servers cannot be touched by any of the competition. But that's not good enough for you, you have to have everything? You know who that sounds like don't you?
And the difference between MS and Linux's success isn't marketing, it's money. Microsoft has the money to buy the things it needs to make it's product successful. Linux doesn't, it has to rely on it's engineers in order to get the thing it wants/needs...
Lastly I just want to ask how can someone act like linux is still concidered unknown to those of us that aren't in the field? What I mean is that more people own Droid phones then they do windows or macs. And I find it hard to believe that only 4% of all computers in the world use linux...I find that very hard to believe.
The information is correct , tho understand the principle of rating. The smarter and growing industry of online inteeligence are migrading away from the old concept of being pimp out with money. Lunix provides freedom to create and communicate with the simple rules of socialabilty, rather then be controlled and puppet teered by back end commercialization tatics. The rating industry listen to every thing and makes money from people attention and the freedom lunix gives us is our own platform to surf with out boundaries.
Understand also there are more personal desktop the phones or tablets put together. When lunix is ready to take over the desk top industry, it will create money as it mutiplies across the internet market.
Great comment copy and paste the Webb address and drop in face book. Now you have your button
Understand also there are more personal desktop the phones or tablets put together. When lunix is ready to take over the desk top industry, it will create money as it mutiplies across the internet market.
Great comment copy and paste the Webb address and drop in face book. Now you have your button
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