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What do you think about Windows 8's Windows Explorer? Is the idea of a Ribbon for Windows Explorer really that hard to swallow?
"Ribbon is gaining momentum and not going away, so you really need to stop grumbling"
Just because something as stupid as the Ribbon isn't going away doesn't mean we have to suck it up. It is gaining momentum, only because MS Developers keep sticking it applications despite a fairly vocal lobby of persons stating that is bites. It is not intuitive, I was forced to endure it in Office 2007 and Office 2010 at work. The Ribbon was the only reason, as shallow as some people will think that makes me, that I did not buy Office 2010 for my home Laptop last year. Then when I heard the GREAT news that the Ribbon Virus will be spreading to Explorer in Win 8, once you get past all the pretty BOXES. It was for that reason I am leaving Windows on my home PC after 30 years working in the computer industry. If I have to relearn everything all over again, I might as well learn it on a Mac this time. Open Office doesn't have the Ribbon, and I don't know what a Mac is supposed to look like so spending 20 minutes finding how to save a file will be ok.
The Ribbon is wrong, in apps, in the OS, pretty much anywhere other then a present.
Just because something as stupid as the Ribbon isn't going away doesn't mean we have to suck it up. It is gaining momentum, only because MS Developers keep sticking it applications despite a fairly vocal lobby of persons stating that is bites. It is not intuitive, I was forced to endure it in Office 2007 and Office 2010 at work. The Ribbon was the only reason, as shallow as some people will think that makes me, that I did not buy Office 2010 for my home Laptop last year. Then when I heard the GREAT news that the Ribbon Virus will be spreading to Explorer in Win 8, once you get past all the pretty BOXES. It was for that reason I am leaving Windows on my home PC after 30 years working in the computer industry. If I have to relearn everything all over again, I might as well learn it on a Mac this time. Open Office doesn't have the Ribbon, and I don't know what a Mac is supposed to look like so spending 20 minutes finding how to save a file will be ok.
The Ribbon is wrong, in apps, in the OS, pretty much anywhere other then a present.
Just because there are a vocal group of people that can't get their head around the idea that sometimes it is a good idea to move on from the way you first learned how to do something is no reason the rest of us should have to put up with their mindless ramblings. Just because it's the way you like to do things doesn't actually mean it's a good idea, or that it has any intrinsic value or quality. Just because it's the way you've done things for a decade or so doesn't mean you should continue to do so.
Just because they haven't got their head around the idea that innate resistance to change is a dumb idea, is no reason the rest of us should have to put up with rubbish old interfaces. Just because "it's a natural reaction" is no reason to behave this way. There are a lot of other "natural" feelings that civilised people are expected to control, this is just another one that's well past it's use by date.
Just because they haven't got their head around the idea that innate resistance to change is a dumb idea, is no reason the rest of us should have to put up with rubbish old interfaces. Just because "it's a natural reaction" is no reason to behave this way. There are a lot of other "natural" feelings that civilised people are expected to control, this is just another one that's well past it's use by date.
I am wrong, I will stop my rants regarding the Ribbon and Metro. Yelling at the wind only makes me hoarse anyway.
Microsoft changed something, so it is the perfect pat of progress and innovation, and made things better. Anyone who has a complaint has absolutely no valid point and is just bogged down by Luddite inertia in devotion to the past.
Make an actual argument, why don't you?
The Ribbon is a ridiculously over-sized waste of space with the same stupid toolbar items on it.
Now, you tell us why it is better. You can skip the tired, old "you just don't want to learn" tripe. Tell us why this UI element is an improvement. You may have valid points, but we'd never know.
Make an actual argument, why don't you?
The Ribbon is a ridiculously over-sized waste of space with the same stupid toolbar items on it.
Now, you tell us why it is better. You can skip the tired, old "you just don't want to learn" tripe. Tell us why this UI element is an improvement. You may have valid points, but we'd never know.
@seanferd -First thanks for you support. Second it was easier to attack me and to assume that I was too dumb or lazy to learn the ribbon that to come up with reason why the ribbon is good. My issue, and the main issue of the majority of the posts I have read is the ribbon wastes my time, finding where command I need and taking the extra clicks to do things like PRINT that need to be in on the HOME page. I have serious doubt that people use styles more often than printing, saving and creating new files in Office. I can deal with the waste of space since it can be mitigated by hiding the ribbon.
As a side note I love all the people who make this claim (I have read it in many blog posts) "I love the ribbon, I hide it and use the QAT" As a point, if you are hiding the ribbon and using a QAT you took a good amount of time to create you aren't really using the ribbon, you are using the only tool bar you have.
Finally, this is not a continuation of my rant, it is me simply answering a question asked in my presence, not directed to a specific person.
As a side note I love all the people who make this claim (I have read it in many blog posts) "I love the ribbon, I hide it and use the QAT" As a point, if you are hiding the ribbon and using a QAT you took a good amount of time to create you aren't really using the ribbon, you are using the only tool bar you have.
Finally, this is not a continuation of my rant, it is me simply answering a question asked in my presence, not directed to a specific person.
I am not amused. As I said about the previous revisions of the 'File Browser', known by MS as 'Windows Explorer', there should be a 'Switch' available for non-airheads to use that function. (Oh, would Sheldon love to rant on this)
As it is, I have 2 alternative 3rd party file browsers installed which I use interchangeably as the situation dictates.
This may be compared to using both Firefox & Chrome in lieu of Internet Explorer - which I also do.
As it is, I have 2 alternative 3rd party file browsers installed which I use interchangeably as the situation dictates.
This may be compared to using both Firefox & Chrome in lieu of Internet Explorer - which I also do.
Thanks Greg for doing this review.
I agree with Carl.Lee, I hate the ribbon! I say that up front. I have ranted about it in Office for the last 4 years (and still do rant about it). It sucks, PERIOD. It is just too cluttered (70-120 hieroglyphics, I counted, in a ribbon is overwhelming) and too dynamic (the d*** things jump around (change location) like mexican jumping beans on speed, change size and look almost every time you resize the app window!) for that application. I have seen it applied in other apps where again it was in appropriate, because the app was too brain dead simple. The was no reason to waste the screen space for 4 or 5 commands, in total on a ribbon.
So imagine my surprise when after reading your review I say this implementation looks not too bad. I might even say I like it .
I agree with regulus, there should be a simple toggle to convert back to the menu. The ribbon is a pastry thin shell on top of the old menu application (equivalent to "putting lipstick on a pig"). It would be trivial to keep the menu.
My fundamental objection to the ribbon is that it completely discounts my personal time and money that I have invested in learning the menu UI. The ribbon is written explicitly for Brand new users (spending new money on new licenses). It totally ignores the needs of experienced users. In this app the shortcuts may have remained the same, but that is not always true in Office apps. Tell me why would the "Insert" tab have a "n" shortcut. And don't get me started on the new 2 letter shortcuts needed to support more than 26 hieroglyphs in a tab ...
There is also one more thing I wish they would bring back. That is the 2 window display to make file management (copying, moving) easier. It was a "crime" when they blinded File Explorer to birth the "cyclops" Windows Explorer. It showed a real lack of vision.
Greg some questions:
1. could you confirm that they at least have implemented the toggle to minimize the ribbon down to the tabs only, very similar in look to the old menu? It took me 4 years to learn about that feature.
2. are you going to write about the conditional tabs that are implemented? I would like the option to show them all the time disabled when not valid, so we are aware the features are there just waiting to be triggered. If you do write about the conditional tabs, please add a link from this article to that one, and one back to this one, to make it brain dead easy for readers to find both from either one.
3. do any of the ribbon commands still trigger the old dialog boxes, properties comes to mind? Or have the fully implemented the Ribbon Gooey in this app.
I agree with Carl.Lee, I hate the ribbon! I say that up front. I have ranted about it in Office for the last 4 years (and still do rant about it). It sucks, PERIOD. It is just too cluttered (70-120 hieroglyphics, I counted, in a ribbon is overwhelming) and too dynamic (the d*** things jump around (change location) like mexican jumping beans on speed, change size and look almost every time you resize the app window!) for that application. I have seen it applied in other apps where again it was in appropriate, because the app was too brain dead simple. The was no reason to waste the screen space for 4 or 5 commands, in total on a ribbon.
So imagine my surprise when after reading your review I say this implementation looks not too bad. I might even say I like it .
I agree with regulus, there should be a simple toggle to convert back to the menu. The ribbon is a pastry thin shell on top of the old menu application (equivalent to "putting lipstick on a pig"). It would be trivial to keep the menu.
My fundamental objection to the ribbon is that it completely discounts my personal time and money that I have invested in learning the menu UI. The ribbon is written explicitly for Brand new users (spending new money on new licenses). It totally ignores the needs of experienced users. In this app the shortcuts may have remained the same, but that is not always true in Office apps. Tell me why would the "Insert" tab have a "n" shortcut. And don't get me started on the new 2 letter shortcuts needed to support more than 26 hieroglyphs in a tab ...
There is also one more thing I wish they would bring back. That is the 2 window display to make file management (copying, moving) easier. It was a "crime" when they blinded File Explorer to birth the "cyclops" Windows Explorer. It showed a real lack of vision.
Greg some questions:
1. could you confirm that they at least have implemented the toggle to minimize the ribbon down to the tabs only, very similar in look to the old menu? It took me 4 years to learn about that feature.
2. are you going to write about the conditional tabs that are implemented? I would like the option to show them all the time disabled when not valid, so we are aware the features are there just waiting to be triggered. If you do write about the conditional tabs, please add a link from this article to that one, and one back to this one, to make it brain dead easy for readers to find both from either one.
3. do any of the ribbon commands still trigger the old dialog boxes, properties comes to mind? Or have the fully implemented the Ribbon Gooey in this app.
...might even like the Windows Explorer Ribbon in Windows 8!
You can create your dual-pane file manager simulation with 4 simple keystrokes:
[Windows]+E
[Windows]+[Left Arrow]
[Windows] +E
[Windows]+[Right Arrow]
You dont even have to let up on the [Windows] key. In fact, I press and hold down the [Windows] key and then press E, [Left Arrow], E, [Right Arrow]. Once you have the two windows open, you can easily copy files from one folder or drive to another.
Yes, there is a Minimize Ribbon feature as well as an XP-like "Customize toolbar" feature but it is called the Quick Access Toolbar. I'll go into it a bit more in my follow up article, in which I explore the contextual tabs.
At this point in time, many of the Ribbon commands tigger the old dialog boxes and Wizards
You can create your dual-pane file manager simulation with 4 simple keystrokes:
[Windows]+E
[Windows]+[Left Arrow]
[Windows] +E
[Windows]+[Right Arrow]
You dont even have to let up on the [Windows] key. In fact, I press and hold down the [Windows] key and then press E, [Left Arrow], E, [Right Arrow]. Once you have the two windows open, you can easily copy files from one folder or drive to another.
Yes, there is a Minimize Ribbon feature as well as an XP-like "Customize toolbar" feature but it is called the Quick Access Toolbar. I'll go into it a bit more in my follow up article, in which I explore the contextual tabs.
At this point in time, many of the Ribbon commands tigger the old dialog boxes and Wizards
Is this a proper name or trademarked thing? And why?
I sure hope Directory Opus will work in Win8. Most fantastic little Windows Explorer replacement I've ever come across.
I haven't done extensive testing but Directory Opus does work in Windows 8. I have used it to copy files, delete files etc.
It seems that every new version of Windoze and Office becomes less efficient than its predecessors, from Windows 3.1 to Windoze 95 and 98 (now called the "classic" shell) to XP and Windows 7 and, soon, Windows 8. Fortunately, when it comes to what should be a simple task, like file management, I use a wonderful tool, J.P. Software's Take Command and 4NT, a DOS-like command line interface that traces its history back to 4DOS, a replacement for COMMAND.COM in MS-DOS. Anything you can do with Explorer can be done faster and easier with a command line. And for some reason, I always found "COPY" and "MOVE" far more intuitive than drag-and-drop or Ctrl-Drag-and-Drop (or the MAC equivalents). It gives me the power of LINUX in Windoze (and there are a few applications I use that run only in Windoze).
I also use Excel extensively and each version after Office 97 has made performing many tasks take more mouse clicks (like drop-down boxes in pivot tables) and more arm movement (and no keyboard shortcuts to replace these movements). The only improvement in Excel has been larger sheets (1 million rows by 64K columns rather than 64K rows and 256 columns) Everything else slows me down...and there are no new features that make it more powerful, just more money for MS. And there still is no 64-bit version of Excel.
I also use Excel extensively and each version after Office 97 has made performing many tasks take more mouse clicks (like drop-down boxes in pivot tables) and more arm movement (and no keyboard shortcuts to replace these movements). The only improvement in Excel has been larger sheets (1 million rows by 64K columns rather than 64K rows and 256 columns) Everything else slows me down...and there are no new features that make it more powerful, just more money for MS. And there still is no 64-bit version of Excel.
Though i know my around in the ribbon-interfaces i dont like them. I dont feel it really ads something. Even worse... the ribbon takes a lot of space. Unnecessary waste of space which can be used for better things (display). So whenever i can i switch to a menu-structure because i like that much better. If it is not there i try to find "Classic interfaces". But the ribbon is really a no-go for me. The problem is not that i cant work with it but i just hate it. For me it is a dragon.
"In the Organize group, you???ll find that the Move To and Copy To commands are readily accessible rather than being hidden away on the Edit menu as they were in Windows XP/Vista/7. "
Sorry - how much are they paying you? Move and Copy weren't hidden in an edit menu they were in a logical place as edit functions. The ribbon is with us, I'll live with it but I don't have to like it and "embrace the advantages" - I don't do anything with the ribbon that I couldn't do before in a logical manner.
Please just stick to the facts and spare us the MS propaganda - for the majority of users the ribbon is just unnecessary. It's neither bad nor good but definitely not an improvement.
Sorry - how much are they paying you? Move and Copy weren't hidden in an edit menu they were in a logical place as edit functions. The ribbon is with us, I'll live with it but I don't have to like it and "embrace the advantages" - I don't do anything with the ribbon that I couldn't do before in a logical manner.
Please just stick to the facts and spare us the MS propaganda - for the majority of users the ribbon is just unnecessary. It's neither bad nor good but definitely not an improvement.
Could they make share any dumber? Perhaps MS could trust us to know what we want to do with our files - 'Stop Sharing' for Pete's sake. There's a perfectly good word in English for that - 'lock'.
...Microsoft doesn't pay me anything.
I just love innovation and am excited about the new features in Windows 8. Not sure I would exactly call it propaganda though... my goal is to get people excited about the new technology not really to further a cause.
I just love innovation and am excited about the new features in Windows 8. Not sure I would exactly call it propaganda though... my goal is to get people excited about the new technology not really to further a cause.
How about a for most popular file extention... ...at least those from Microsoft.
;-0(((
How about a "File Viewer" for most popular file extentions... ...at least those from Microsoft
How about a "File Viewer" for most popular file extentions... ...at least those from Microsoft
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