Discussion on:

All your Android are belong to us

I'll be watching for your article on the Thrive. Thus far my deal-breaker has consistantly been touchscreen support so any tips on touchscreens compatible with Debian or it's child forks would be welcome.

If you want to get all of the POSIX commands you know and love on your Android device all you need is Busybox. You will need root level permissions to install all the binares in to the system areas. Once this is done you should be able to do all the things you would expect from Linux. Once you get on the terminal in Adroid I'm sure you will find that the filestructure is familiar. Heck, the filesystem on Android is often EXT3 or EXT4. I'm not sure why anyone would argue that it is not like Linux.

Maemo Linux is much closer to a general purpose distro. Though it shipps with Busybox, one still may need gnu-tar and other full fledged programs outside of the emulated versions in Busybox.

Busybox is a great start though if one needs a more complete userland on a mobile device.

I've often wondered what happens if the OS gets crapped up somehow on a tablet or smart phone running android. Does one "reinstall" a tablet or phone? For that matter can an ipad be "reinstalled" by the end user?

It'd be nice to be able to put any distro you wanted on these devices, but my understanding now is the OS and hardware are solidly wedded to one another by design.

I don't see why it wouldn't be like any previous embedded OS; just re-flash the stock firmware and start over if you mess the thing up that badly. I've done a couple of good ones on my Maemo devices leading me to revert back to a stock firmware. (in teh case of the N900, it has a very nice "backup to SD" function that recovers user data cleanly)

I don't see that it makes much difference.

There's an old - very old! - joke about a man who spent his life proving that the works of Will Shakespeare were written by a different man - with the same name!

The Linux/not-Linux argument(s) strike me as being in the same venue. A [sometimes] pleasant discussion, perhaps, but irresolvable (?) to the satisfaction of all parties.

Android, like the mentioned Ubuntu and Fedora, is the clothing that makes Linux usable - it's just a new suit in the Linux closet.

The Ubuntu suit is not the same as the Fedora suit yet because users ignore the suite and focus on the kernel residing within it, they assume that the functions/issues of one directly represent the functions/issues of another.

What other brand category do we blindly focus on a manufacturing component with no recognition of the difference between brand names and product producers?

It's a different angle, though: Making a brand name the generic name across brands. Kleenex, aspirin.

Neat error.. it tells me "will not re-post this duplicate post" yet is the post shown above?.. no.. strange..

I've seen all manner of problems since they changed to this forum format. I am pretty sure that particular error has risen when I sent a post at exactly the same time as someone else, especially if the topic has not been started yet.

On some occasions I've had to copy the text I wrote temporarily to a file, restart the browser and cut and paste to get it to post. Must be something in the cookies or scripts that gets confused about your posting status.

I've also written a post, submitted and been met with a message telling me to log in, even though when I first opened the article to read it I was shown as being logged in.

strange indeed. Must be the price of progress.

And without Linux GNU would still be trying to build HURD.* So what?

If the question is, "Is Android GNU/Linux", state the question as such in the first place. Don't move the (pointless) goalposts at the end of the article.

The Linux kernel is in all sorts of stuff, sometimes using a minimal toolchain, other times probably using something different. So, it it about Linux, or GNU?

*GNU could change its name to GINAOSAA. (GNU is not an operating system at all.) Until it fully creates its own full stack, it isn't, and HURD is still not ready. Half the problem is probably being in thrall to Stallman.

The Linux/FOSS community has been moving the goalpost so often, for so long, in dealing with arguments from the Microsoft/Windows community, that it has become second nature and now the Linux/FOSS community can't even find a common ground to agree with among itself. That alone should be a sign that the definitions are so vague as to be meaningless. For all intents and purposes, if something is built on the Linux kernel, I think it should be considered a LINUX system. This applies to my GPS unit, my IBM XIV San, my Debian box, and Android. They're all built on a foundation of Linux, so Linux is what they are.

I just don't see what is so hard about that. The problem comes when FOSS proponents want to cherry-pick definitions to position themselves in a certain place for inevitable arguments. It is all about FOSS politics, not about practical reality. And that is one of the top things that keeps Linux hung up and unable to really leverage itself. It is a top reason why Linux has a certain negative connotation with anyone outside of the FOSS community. I've been saying this for years, and this is a great case study of the inevitable outcome of what I've claimed for so long. The FOSS/Linux community is its own worst enemy.

Honestly. I agree with your post.

And I'm a long time Unix/Linux admin and I'm paid to work on *nix servers.

The thing is though, you'd have to include things like VMWare ESX as "Linux" if you go by your definition. Most people don't.

The point that it's a Kernel is to say, it's an underpinning to be built on. It's tough to put ESXi in the same sentence as, say a smartphone running Android. Same kernel...different purposes...different OS.

From my own point of view, I don't care what propeller heads in the basement think. The very fact that they want ANY software to "dominate the world" gives me some reason to question just how rational they are.

"The thing is though, you'd have to include things like VMWare ESX as "Linux" if you go by your definition. Most people don't."

Why don't they? ESX is Linux; VMware doesn't make any secret of it.

"Same kernel...different purposes...different OS."

I think of it like petroleum products in cars, airplanes, freight trains; different distillations, different purposes, but the basic starting ingredient unites them.

Nobody uses straight petroleum, the products are all from the same distillation process, drawn off at different condensation temperatures. They are recombined in different proportions and other chemicals added to produce the final products: Kerosene, gasoline, propane et c.

In Linux, layers of code and UI are added to the Kernel to produce a workable operating system. The "basic ingredient" is seldom altered. The result should be called "Linux-based", not "Linux".

A fistful of morons keep repeating this. Just because you listen to it doesn't make this a defining characteristic of some community.

Donovan seems to though. And I'm sure he's not the only one.

"The Linux/FOSS community has been moving the goalpost so often, for so long, in dealing with arguments from the Microsoft/Windows community, that it has become second nature and now the Linux/FOSS community"

Oh? the Windows and osX fan base never "moves teh goal posts" does it?

There are also cases where the person claiming that goal posts have been moved didn't understand the discussion in the first place. And that is also not uniqe to any single fan base. But, by all means.. continue premoting the idea that it's all just "FOSS politics".

means "Gina knows how to" in Finnish.
Gina osaa juosta - Gina can run

This parainformation brought to you by an overworked translator.

Is a tomato a fruit or a vegetable? That depends on how you define "fruit" and "vegetable". How they are most often prepared and eaten? What part of the plant they come from?

Ultimately,I think it's a pointless question.

It is an interesting subject and IMO android is Linux. Google is one place the Not invented here syndrome does not seem to reach.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nix_v._Hedden

As the article says, botanically the tomato is a fruit, it's the "fruiting body" of the plant, i.e. it contains seeds.

I daren't ask what they'd have done about the "attorney's pear", the avocado.

How about amoeba colonies. Fruit again?

Legislating facts is fun!

You'd hope so, or vegetable, lest PETA be all over the antibiotic manufacturers for unfair and cruel treatment... "save the amoebas! Penicillin is MURDER!!!"

As long as my wife thinks it's a vegetable, I don't have to eat her broccoli!

Android is as much Linux as MacOS is BSD. They don't look alike, they don't act alike (at least, not without help), and many people don't see them as the same system. Nevertheless, they are the same system.

Linux is what it is because of it's freedom. The Ubuntu, Red Hat and all the other major Distro teams modify every aspect of the OS, including the kernel, to ensure it fits their view of what their OS should be. Android is simply another distro of linux purpose built for mobile hardware. The only place I'll draw the line on this is with Honey Comb. Google has yet to release the source for it and it's becoming a problem.

Just fyi. It's the UI an Android-specific APIs (which are licensed under the Apache Software License v2) which aren't yet released.

Interesting article but the reason I clicked on the link was to ask:What does this statement mean? All your Android are belong to us...????

I agree.

It's a variation of a line from a video game, a line written by someone whose native language was not English: "All your base are belong to us".

Apparently the original line has exceeded its fifteen minutes of fame, and has begun to fall back into well-deserved obscurity. Hopefully it will soon be joined by "I can haz cheezburger" and Rick Astley.

"All your Android are belong to us"

Seriously, does this pass a grammar test?

It is a play on a Japanese game from 1989 that went to Europe with poor translating. Video link for intro http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVsijmCFs50
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_Wing

Which, what, only about a dozen TR readers (figuratively speaking) even know about. I like tongue-in-check humor but make it readable.

Once you clean up the grammar, the joke is gone. It's rather like a budding sculptor saying "I'm going to recreate the Venus de Milo *exactly*... but put arms on her."

Once you make a change that drastic, it's just not the same.

I'm just sayin'...
"Merch"

I'm glad to see it getting the lack of recognition it always deserved.

"You have no chance to survive make your time"
"Somebody set us up the bomb"

The actual game, Zero Wing, it actually not that bad either, a typical side scrolling shooter.

Since it was all over the net.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_your_base_are_belong_to_us

I've seen it on Tshirts etc.

I thought that was the first place I actually heard about it which lead back to the original game translation error.