Discussion on:

Hate your job? Ask yourself why

It's the same reason vast majority of mankind is destined to hate their jobs. Elementary economics, supply and demand thing.

Things people like to do (partying, skiing, recreational scuba diving & gawking at fishes, hot air baloon flying, computer games playing, etc) are done for free. Supply of such services is abundant, and consequetnly, their price is low, negative even. If you want to get paid, however, you must do things that suck, things that most of people don't want or can't do (politics, ski lift maintenance, oil rig diving, dog poop removal, computer game programming, etc). The lower the supply, and the higher the demand for certain labour, the higher the price.

But if you are lucky enough to work with a bunch of supportive people in a decent organisation then it makes the world of difference. I once had a temporary job for several days with some guys picking up Wheelie Bins and emptying them and they had quite a good time doing it, got on well and actually were not badly paid! They really seemed to enjoy their work so it is a lot more than just the job!

NT

When you are at work for so many hours it is more important to get along with your colleages rather that love your job. It's a matter of balancing the two. Of-course if you love your job and like your colleages that that's the best. I know of people who hate their working environment even though they are happy with the job description. They have problems with unsupportive directors, employees playing tricks behind their back and jealous peers working against them. It's more important to have support and be able to socialize that it is to actually like the work that you are doing.

Work with mainframes. The emulators suck but the people I work with rock. Pay is crap but I'd like a few more months for the experience and comradie.

Makes sense, jkameleon... however, that it is traditional economics; and I believe in positive economics, it is possible to pursue your desire and get paid well as well (and then you are outlier anyway at that point)

Nothing in life is free.

I agree. I've always said, I like doing my hobby xyz, but I can't make enough money (to live on) doing it. Others sometimes add that if I did do my hobby xyz all day every day, that I would stop enjoying it.
I like the work I do - I just do it too much! Then I stop liking it.

Looking forward to retiring (although it's many years away) and doing what I want, when I want (and with who I want).

I wish I could've taken a class on motivation back in high school or early college. I took one last year, where we were asked to take an in-depth look at what we enjoy, what we're good at and what we do not like (http://www.jobeq.com/iwam.php).
It was fairly enlightening, and consolidated and confirmed details about what really drives me and gets me excited at work.

Evidently I'm a high-change person who needs new challenges every 2-3 years to stay at the top of my game. I'm also so immersed in details that I'll likely never flourish is anything higher than a middle-management role (I tend to see the trees and not the forest).

Know thyself - Socrates

(Edit: for the person who thinks my comment sucks... I took this class through school, not work.)

http://dilbert.com/2010-11-28/

kind or reminds me of corp. stress reduction classes. they don't teach how to remove the stress but how to deal with more stress.

Good luck for the future.

Most people seem to prefer to complain but there are resources that can help, you listed one and it sounds like it gave you some clarity about yourself so that you know what to look for in a job.

I would suggest to some that they should get a copy of "What Color is Your Parachute?" and do the exercises in the book that will also help you analyze the job you are looking for. It is a simple self help guide that can help.

Another alternative is to find a career counselor and do similar things for more money. This is pricey and designed for the mid life crisis where some people are trying to decide to stick with the pan or jump into the fire.

If you don't want to do either then what helps is if you make two lists. The first is what you want to do, the second is what you want to have. Each list should have at least 100 items and you should write them down without judging the item. You want to get your unexpressed wants and needs on the lists. The next step is to choose the more import items followed by a ranking of those items. If you do this honestly then you will find the items at the top of the list to be most important to you. The two lists help you determine what you want to do and what things you want out of life. With this information you can then look at your job/career and make a better decision about where you want to go.

Can I have one of those Golden Parachutes? The ones you read about when executives leave a job and get paid millions!

In the real world it works like this, someone who does not have the same skill sets and/or care to even begin to learn anything since they are already 'experts' in theory.

They create strive for those who work and this takes the heat off them. It gets really old, but it will end with the brown nose 'in theory' expert left behind and the one who knows will find another company where his/her expertise/skills and eduction will be welcomed.

I have seen it before and I have had the back stabber/suck up cutting my throat behind my back.

It is all about feeding ego's of people in charge, well they can have it all praise because in the end it is like rearranging chairs on the Titanic.

You ALWAYS have to cover your on butt, document everything you do otherwise it is like feeding the piranha of back stabbers in the real world. People who do this type of behavior are really pathetic. But welcome to the REAL corporate environment it is loaded with these 'experts' in instant messaging, kissing up, taking credit for things they did not do and of course undermining!

Someone goes to the boss every day, telling him what a hot shot he is. In the meantime, the real work is done by someone who never brown-noses, never shirks a responsibility, never runs away from work, does the heavy lifting, is always dependable, and typically gets a kick in the can from upper management, along with a lot more work, as a reward.

One of the problems of the workplace is that managers really don't know their people, have no idea what they do all day, and cannot appreciate the myriad of problems that are solved below their organizational level by people who never complain and never blow their own horns. You would think that a manager would know who their heavy-hitters are. You would think that a manager would appreciate someone whom he can always count on. But not necessarily so.

You hit the nail on the head, it is nothing about being bitter it is about the same ole/same ole people with different faces at different places.

The best thing to do is to start your feelers out for what else is open, most of the time adversity can make you dig down deep and take on a new challenge position at another corporation/company.

People who toot their own horns are really dangerous because they do not know what they are doing, and they normally will bring you down with them if you touch anything they are trying to fix.

Management can be snowed under by these people, however once the bread and butter people leave and the creme rises to the top (brown nosers) the manager in charge is going to be walked to the door. I have witnessed this first hand and they were not happy at all.

Back stabbing others to make yourself look like the hero 24/7 always has a unique twist of fate, plus God sees the truth and waits!

Bitter much?

1) "Here, I had all the gold fillings taken out of my teeth. Find some place that will buy them."
2) "Here, run my shirts to the dry cleaners - and don't forget the light starch."
3)"While you're here, can you fix my computer? I don't get email. Also, I need you to rewire the network."
4)"My computer doesn't see the printer. Did you pick up my shirts?"
5)"I decided to send out a mailing. Can we do that today? I don't have time to write it, so after you do the mailing labels, just put something together. Can you take it all home and put on labels and stamps?" It's a request made at 3:30.
6) "Oh, *** (the girlfriend) needs to do a (project A/B/C). She'll be here in a little bit to tell you how you can help her." (request made at 3pm - when I am supposed to be gone)
7) "I am cutting your hours. YYY (new apprentice) is here and he works for free, so I don't need to pay you to do it." (Why I am supposed to be gone by 3)
Been there nearly 6 years; cannot WAIT to fire this boss.

I had to anonymize myself for this one. Where I work now (and it was the same in my previous job) the tech world is the most miserable place to work. I cannot trust my coworkers, I cannot trust upper management, I can trust no one. Many people actually suck at the job, so to make themselves look better they seek others to tear down. The person I share a cube with has, on 3 occasions, attempted to get me either reprimanded or fired when nothing happened - they simply tried to manufacture drama and strife. Since tech is the only business I know, I have resigned myself to being miserable 50 plus hours a week until I die. You can be all pie in the sky about it, thinking there is some magic perfect job out there, but that isn't reality. There are no good jobs, no good places to work and no people you can actually trust. That is the reality of modern corporate workforce. I say this to warn kids getting into this career path - be prepared to be in shark infested waters for the whole of your career. Everyone is out to get you.

The way these people survive is strife/drama/lies about you.

This is the real world, people are either naive or have NO common-sense period.

Anyways, back to the installing new Oracle 'unbreakable' linux clusters.

Never trust anyone in the work place it is a safe bet, it will keep you from putting your foot in your mouth!

Did I mention Oracle?

"Always stay out of drama/gossip/hear-say" is the best possible advise.

Do not talk badly about anybody, and keep to yourself as much as possible. And work in a field that you really enjoy.

It's no heaven out there in the corporate world. But whether it becomes hell or not, is in great part, up to you, too.

I worked at a soft drink distributor for ten years and loved it. My position was eliminated and I was fortunate because my wife had a great career and so we weren't facing living in a cardboard box and eating scraps we could find in a dumpster. I took a job making a third of what I had been making and really enjoyed the experience and then something paying a lot better came along and I took it and worked in banking for over a decade and loved it.

The bank was eventually sold and another purchased bank eventually ended up as the dominant entity. I really didn't care that much for this controlling entity, so I took a whack to my compensation again and moved to a new industry, technology, and I'm having a blast again.

In over 3 decades in industry I've had exactly 1 job for a few months that I really didn't care for. My wife hasn't ever had that experience. Part of this I believe is finding our niche; part of this is making our niche.

A big part of the "happiness" equation is making the choice to approach life in this regard. I know a lot of folks are going to disagree with this "rose-colored glasses," "glass half-full" perspective, but we're 100% in control of our response in all situations. Admitting that, however, requires us to accept some very hefty personal responsibility. Most of us would prefer to blame our coworkers, our boss, our pay, our parents, our...For me I chose not to allow those to be an option and for me my rose-colored glasses and glass half full worked. This paradigm is not for everyone obviously, but for me it sure has made for a most exceptional journey.

Totally agree with you, rdecastle.

It's true what you say: this type of mentality is not for everyone. But everybody could learn from it. And should, if we want to be happier. The glass is half empty. But it IS ALSO half full.

But there's more beer in the refrigerator...

Toni, my observation is that things have seriously gone down hill in the past 50 years.

It used to be that you earned respect and were given authority. People with shared values built trust. There were actually -- and I know this is hard to believe -- actually good bosses who were consistent and fair, who actually did their job to provide the workers what they needed to get the job done. People knew what was expected of them and knew what to expect.

My observation is that today, management has been taken over by narcissists, sociopaths, psychopaths and nut jobs who not only don't know what they are doing, but impede the work being done and then not only don't give credit where credit is due, they take credit for successes which occured in spite of all the failure factors they employed. Anything, any time, may change in any way without rhyme or reason leaving people confused about what might be next, but most are sure that it will not be good news based on past performance of dysfunctional management.

The work place seems to be a microcosm of the 1971 Phillip Zimbardo Stanford Prison Experiment all over again: The Guards (management) has been given the fiat that they are in charge and must maintain order (mostly without physical violence) and the prisoners are dehumanized to be manipulated and stressed with nonsensical nonsense which inhibits their productivity. Moreover, artificial restraints are employed to make a really bad situation worse (withness Governor Gregoire making another round of cuts across the board when the school system must maintain certain levels by law). Arbitrary cuts and restraints without reasonable limits go a long way to make the work place intolerable.

Sure, the job can be terrible, but if the workers see the need to accomplish it, have supportive management to empower the employees (oh, just stop it! stop laughing! empowerment does exist, but it's never been employed) and have truly shared values (and not the artificial unworkable ones printed in some booklet by HR), the dysfunctional environment can be transformed into a productive work envirnment.

Good luck with that.

It's a jungle out there. A rat-race. We have mangement running IT who don't have a clue about "the business of IT". They just buy everything and contract-out everything. They waste money like crazy.
I call it a mate-ocracy because the CIO employs all her mates and suck-asses into the management positions. Never mind that they don't know what they're doing. They know enough to produce powerpoint slides to fool the executives into thinking they do.

Do what you love and love what you do.

Complaining about corporations, the government, the economy, etc. doesn't do anything for your personal situation.

Complaining is essentially a dependent victim mentality. Instead, it's better to take action and responsiblity for creating your results.

For example, I used to have a day job where the corporate culture and my boss's management practices were, shall we say, lacking. I was underpaid, felt undervalued, and found myself complaining about the situation a lot.

After being frustrated with my corporate day job--and worried that layoffs were imminent--I started my own consulting business in January 2007 while working full-time (and with 2 kids, so I didn't have a ton of time to devote to it). ??I gradually built up a list of a few dozen clients, so that I have a steady workload and income. I've got more flexibility and financial security than I ever had at any of my day jobs. (The financial security comes from having multiple clients who pay me, rather than relying on a single employer for my income). Since I started my consulting business, I've QUADRUPLED my former day-job salary.

It's truly been life-changing, and has completely changed my worldview; I'm no longer dependent on a single employer, and I continually see new business opportunities.

As a result of my daily actions to build my own business and make it succeed, I feel empowered and happier. I complain less, and when I find myself complaining, I try to refocus on how I can change the situation instead of just bellyaching about it. I'm modeling those behaviors for my kids as well, and teaching them about entrepreneurship and how it can lead to greater independence.

You can check out an interview I recently did where I talk about how I made the switch from employee to consultant, and where I talk about some of my initial fears and doubts--as well as actual income and hourly rate numbers.

Take advantage of your skills, experience, and vision, and create what you want.

Greg Miliates

Thank you. I couldn't agree with you more. People hating their jobs is (usually) an example of a victim mentality. It is akin to teenagers hating their parents.

For all the people who have said change your career, I applaud your attitude. However, I am compelled to state the counterpoint. Such change can inolve a great deal of risk. Typically, this risk is financial. Many people are the sole wage earner in their family, supporting kids, some who have "college tuition" written all over them. When other people are depending upon you, sometimes "change" does not seem like a practical option because the risk is too high.
While I myself am not in this category, I am very sympathetic with the many thousands of people who feel trapped. Dismissing this as "victim mentality" can be oversimplifying a complicated situation. There is no one answer that will fit every situation. Each person must weigh security and risk. Perhaps the real trick is to devalue our sense of security and find ways to minimize risk (like having 12 months cash savings).

I love my job. I develop embedded electronics and software for a widely varied array of customer needs. I have a masters degree in electrical engineering that made doing this kind of high-end design work possible. Speaking in terms of supply and demand, I acquired a skill for which there is high demand and low (and indeed shrinking) supply. I took this path because I fell in love with electronic and software design in my early teens. The cost and effort to get a masters degree in EE has paid off 100X in terms of my quality of life. I am not rich and never will be, but I'm as happy at work as I am at home.

Many people (especially engineers) go into management after a while. I don't like management and when asked about it I tell people that if I wanted to be a manager I would have degrees in business and not engineering. The few times I've been forced to dabble in management I've hated it. So I work hard to stay on the engineering design side of the house. Being in my mid 40's, it is challenging to avoid being forced into management, but so far so good.

I am reminded of the first Star Trek movie (stay with me here). James Kirk was always happiest when he was captain of a star ship. After being promoted to Admiral, he was miserable. He was the most capable star ship captain in Star Fleet history, and that was where he belonged, no matter how old he was. This principle is just as true in the 21st century as it will be in the 24th.

That said, all companies have imperfections and quirks that annoy. There are certainly things about where I work that I would change if I could. But the big things are right, and I've learned to not sweat the small stuff. There will always be small stuff that you could stress over at any job or in any family for that matter, so if you let those things bother you too much you will always be miserable. Strive to get the big things right and you'll be chronically happy.

Why should the work environment be harmful to anyone's mental wellbeing or affect one's health?? There are many more people than we would admit to, that cannot even get out of bed in the morning, because they're going to a nasty and toxic workplace!

It's not something a person simply has to surrender to either. Personalities, chemistries, politics, etc. are rampant in most work environments. If you can't take it... leave... find something else! Well, that's no longer a simple task. Many jobs are very, very sparse indeed and the time to land a new position takes too long!

There's a blog that offers an alternative, www.employee-workplace.com.

Given that employers hold most of the cards (your paycheck, health insurance, legally), what do employees have? In this economic time, in this day and age, given fewer and fewer alternatives, employees need tools that help them deal with workplace issues and the increasing demands thrust upon them!

Whether by abusive managers, underhanded employer tactics, and on and on... employees need a way to fight back, especially in this new world where many employers, large, medium and small, could care less about your well being, your children, your mortgage / rent payment, your car payment, the food on your table, well... you get the idea!

The point is that there's a least one new tool available to bridge the gap between you and your empoyer. This takes the form of resolution strategies and the degrees of importance you place on your job and your employer.

For example, you may simply need a little support from a career coach to help you to work through certain issues at work. On the other hand, you may decide to seek out an opinion from an employment attorney (or labor attorney if you're a union member) or deal directly with your HR department.

There is at least one new one out there. I know, because I developed it. It's called Employee's Workplace Companion.

I developed it to give people a bit of solace and to let them know that just because of at will employment laws, and the power that employers have over their employees, there are some new methods and processes coming to the fore, for a change, to help employees.

The problem is finding somewhere to do it that doesn't suck.

I've come close...

Work is work....it is called such because if it wasn't unpleasant... it would be called a hobby. Now there are some people that have hobby/work.....very lucky

Generally my experience has been with those types is that you could pay them 10 cents per hour and they would still do it. These folks generally; have no life, no spouse, no expenses....think Salvation Army Boy.....living on coupons from Mickey D's etc.

Now frankly, if given the opportunity; I would love to start a small farm, in an area where I can walk around the woods, harvest what God has provided. And still use my computer skills to help the Veterans Administrations latest program ???Healthy Vet???. Which would be the same support that I provided under the Digital, Compaq, HP designations. I was Technical Lead for Imaging and support of the Cache Database for over 10 years.... then released due to cutbacks.
So to get back to the point; business, management and people have played this game for years.
Unfortunately, IT people ( early on) never unionized ???. They thought it was not necessary.. they were too smart???..WELL A BIG HAH TO YOU ALL.

Look I am not a big union person???..not by a long shot??????but ???..This stupid thinking of being ???.???ohh I am so smart that I don???t need a union???.

Well if you don???t study history?????????ahhh Google it.

...(unions), forever will it dominate your destiny.

Of course they also have their drawbacks. The challenge is in balancing between them.

American unions have, for the most part, failed miserably at this balance.

I find that most of the time (though not always) it is possible to influence the dynamics of your job. This starts with your relationships with your manager, peers, customers, and if applicable, subordinates (no small task). Relationships seem to be key - if you have somewhat sane people around you, you can create those positive relationships over time that can then work to give you space to make other aspects of your job better. Not only does it become a more pleasant work environment (due to better relationships), but it very often offers extra latitude to try some new things. For instance, my own job satisfaction is increased when I am given the opportunity to innovate or improve things. When I find the environment is not going to be conducive to positive relationships and possibly innovation/improvement, I typically start the process of looking for somewhere else to be where I can bring a positive influence.

Take a look at the comments above (and, really, any site where people complain about their jobs) and you'll see that 90% of the time it's not the 'job' that's the problem, it's the people you work with. Bad managers and bad coworkers are why people hate their jobs. What you do for a living seems to have very little to do with hating your job, and who you work work has everything to do with it.

Yes, you can (and should!) search for work that is more satisfying, that fits with your personality, desires and interests. But realize, that finding your 'perfect' job is a lot more about who you're working with and a lot less about what you're doing. You need to interview the company you're going to work for as much or more than the company needs to interview you!

First I know i'm not the best tech person out there. I wasn't first hired for my skills (limited at the time) but because of the way I interacted with internal and external customers. My learning curve has been steep and at times frustrating but mostly rewarding. My work load has increased substantially not because of the number of people I assist but because of the number and breadth of equipment we now provide to our "community" and i do it pretty much alone....

What makes everything depressing is the people who I work with. I love my supervisor, great man, knowledgeable, helpful, kind, with decent perspective on work life/family balance, but not a good manager. He gives me a task, i get it done, no handholding, status reports/ endless updates required. If I screw up, I apologize, I fix it, WE move on.

When you work for someone like that you don't always mind getting busier and letting your work/home life getting a little out of balance once and awhile as often happens in this industry.

The problem is when people don't know how to behave in the work place.

My supervisor hired a 20 something programmer about 9 months ago after discussing it with me. This programmer was known to us and our organization when he was a student, some liked him some didn't. I though it would be great to have a talented individual who could do the things i'm only so-so at and could free up my and my 'supers' time so we could accomplish other tasks.

It hasn't turned out that way, I pride myself on not playing games/politics in the office, this child does.....unfortunately so does the head of our organization. They are a poisonous combination that no one can escape and have gone so far as to disparage people in meetings and openly as they wander hallways; and yes you may have guessed I was one of the objects of ridicule on more than one occasion.

You know things are bad when you are repeatedly called to the top dogs office to explain why something something doesn't work even after you warned your super and the boss of the potential pitfalls. If the hotshot says it will work and it doesn't.......well he says it's your fault then it must be so Jim!

You know things are really really bad when you not only find yourself wanting to leave a job and career that you love but when you find that you want to harm yourself you know it's too late...The BS is not worth it,

Sound like bitching and moaning? probably. Sound like self victimization? call it what you will, but I give up. I've never complained, never been in the boss's face daily about all that i've acomplished that day, that hour, that minute; never mind all the overtime or midnight calls from the boss to get me to fix something she Fk'ed up. I'm done.

Thanks for the understanding,

Suffering no more.