Discussion on:

Poll: Would you welcome an Android-powered PC?

What's the point? We already have many Linux distros.

99.999% of the general public that use Android everyday have no idea and don't care that the underneath the pointy, smooth icon-fest lie the remnants of the a once godfather O.S. - Unix.

Linux is a total failure as far as they are concerned - stick that on a box/slate/phone and it won't sell. Call it Android and they'll come flocking.

That's the point and be happy that 'nix finally found its way into many nooks of our lives but it could it only do it wearing a disguise (Android/iOS/OSX).

For what it's worth I think this may be dodgy ground for Android - if it does happen then it's either as a pre-boot OS or secondary OS for the OS most people will use on a PC box. Windows 8/9/10 will offer so much flexibility and capability that there'll be hardly any need to switch back or across to Android.

Android is likely sell PCs on behalf of Microsoft. Phone/Tablet->Android->PC->Windows etc.

I do believe that was the point of the comment.

My understanding is Android is NOT a Linux distro & that is even from the mouths of Google.

Linux is conquering the world with its usefulness...

You're right!

Linux is fine, but still has a neglible share on the desktop. Until it is plug n play like Windows and runs Windows legacy apps, the penetration will remain a footnote. I would not say "conquering the world" with minor desktop usage.

Have you ever used (not tried) any Linux distro? I have been using Ubuntu on my work computer for almost 2 years now, and I have found that it is more plug & play, speedier and of course virus free than windows.

For example I could configure network printers, JDE Edwards, etc by myself, while in windows the IT guy had to do it. By the way I use Ubuntu through wubi.

..if your criteria is "runs every Windows legacy app, just like Windows, exactly, and makes money for Windows peddlers and techs."

Fortunately, for the majority of homer users, that's not important. Surfing the web and engaging in online activities safely is. There, Windows will never be better than Linux in general, android in particular.

it's already better than windows.

I can help you run windows XP and windows 7 native with free licensed software on a linux desktop.
Contact for details if you wish to.
Regards,
Khawar Nehal
http://atrc.net.pk

Your needs are quite a bit different than those of the consumer and your depth of knowledge is dramatically more than the typical user of Windows (let alone Android).

Marcovj you are so very right about Linux "playing nice" with application software like JD Edwards and you CAN do it with just some basic thinking. WUBI helps make Linux more "attainable" for people who are not wire-heads or UNIX system administrators too. Android with the connection to phones may well be the way to get Linux better accepted.

It being FREE is being used by many companies, who take the source code and use it. Who needs to do work when they can leech off of somebody else's work?

That's what's making it used everywhere.

So, how do you compete with free?

Ask Apple.

OS X and iOS are based off of FreeBSD.

You complain that companies "leech" off the work of the open-source community, but then speak glowingly of Apple for doing the same thing? Am I missing something here?

There's nothing wrong with Apple or any other company using open-source code for their own gain. The open-source licenses specifically allow that.

Is there no clause about keeping the derivative open sourced?

on the license.

Banking, finance, insurance...the list goes on. Linux has penetration and respect in the corporate server world. Period.

We're talking about linux on PCs not servers.

I find Windows more comfortable than Linux for my desktop PC.

...my answer is that I have used Microsoft Windows ever since I got my 11 floppies of Win286 and grown with it. DOS 3.3 was really good, as I recall and we are to never trust an even numbered version of DOS as 4.0 taught us quickly. You always love the "first" because you are connected in more than skills to that experience. But I have to admit I stood on a freeway off-ramp and gave away CD's of Ubuntu when it was in Version 5 (or so...) to anyone who would roll down their window.

those companies have the capab to hire geeks, IT experts who would hammer their heads rewriting and compiling codes, drivers... to save a few bucks

I even ran that Android image from wherever it was as a VM, to see what the phone UI was like. But as a desktop OS, it is probably something I'd have to decrapify before use, so I don't see why I'd bother. Unless it becomes a fixture and a lot of people want some sort of support for it.

I'm sure the base Android image doesn't have any other crap in it...yet. But what happens with OEM's adding toys and gewgaws to it may mean you'd then have to decrapify it much like the junk OEM'S already shove into their Windows machines.

it will have plenty of crap in it. As of now, I'm not sure how much is in x86 builds.

Since the talk is about machines shipping with Android installed, there is sure to be plenty of crap built in.

Somebody has to pay money for the FREE android, maybe not you but you you would pay one way or the others.
In lost jobs, lost privacy...

The most obvious difference is that neither Android nor any other tablet OS offers preemptive multitasking. They offer simply task-switching. Even Windows 95 offered cooperative multitasking. The tablet OS world is far simpler than the Linux or Windows worlds. How Win 8 for tablets fits into this paradigm remains to be seen!

Windows 95 had preemptive multitasking for 32-bit apps. That was one of the things that made it a major improvement over Windows 3.1.

... and it implemented Win32s. Only the Windows NT family has ever offered preemptive Multitasking. Windows NT 3.5x was the first of the family, then WIndows NT 4, then WIndows 2000/XP (Windows NT5.x) and most recently, Windows Vista/7 (Windows NT 6.x).

I think it's an intriguing idea. A familiar flavor of Linux, a plethora of apps that could be ported to it, and none of the bloat of todays desktop O.S.'s. Not saying I'd run out and buy one, but I'd definitely take a look. I like this concept better than the Chromebook.

Take away pre-emptive multi-tasking and return to the days of "task switching" (as iOS and Android have done) and strip out high-performance graphics performance in exchange for limited graphics capability, and limit resolutions to 1024x600 or 1280x800, and you can cut the fat right out of that OS - AND you can long battery life and light weight out of that compromise - by IT IS a compromise!

Meeting 90% of the needs of all users is not the same as meeting all of the needs of 90% of users.

For some, a tablet can meet all of their computing needs but, by and large, tablets are being used as a "supplement" to the computing needs of users. Neither Android nor iOS are suitable a desktop replacements for a fully-functional OS like Windows or Linux.

... and android uses native linux task management.

There is task-switching (which is what tablet OSes do - and what Windows did prior to Windows 95).

There is cooperative multitasking (which is what MacOS 9 and earlier, and Windows 95 thru ME did).

And there is pre-emptive multitasking, which is what UNIX and Linux have done almost since the beginning.

The demands of the latter are what make desktop operating systems "bloated".

But whatever. YMMV.

... multiple GB of RAM (@ $10 per GB) runnung at 2GHz+ when comparing that software to predecessor software that once consumed 128MB of RAM which cost $100 and ran at 800MHz.

the former runs more poorly than the latter, on account of a butt-load of poorly integrated, bloaty "features".

Bloat is throwing away the progresses made in processing power, NOT doing more tasks at the same time, at the same speed as before.

... performs better than Windows XP SP3 does on the same 1GB machine. Of course, the "sweet-spot" for Windows 7 (x86) is 2GB of RAM (it's 3GB for Windows 7 (x64) ... but, at $10 per GB, who cares?

I don't know why Microsoft windows has to pay for the inability of the Hardware guys to invent batteries that last weeks at a reasonable price. That should be the real focus here

When did M$ have a contract with hardware guys that if they sell windows then MS shall pay for battery development ?
Khawar Nehal
http://atrc.net.pk

I'm referring to code bloat, I think you are referring to feature bloat.
Read it again. I never came remotely close to suggesting that in the dead of the night the Google Fairies would sneak into everyone's home and replace your feature bloated machine with an Android based lappy. Every machine is a compromise to someone, and we all benefit from having a multitude of choices to meet the needs of the masses, who have widely different computing needs. An android lappy loaded with the multitudes of exisiting Android apps might be an ideal travel companion while on vacation, or it might be a device so simple that even senior citizens and non techies find that it fits ALL of their needs. I'd never be able to use it as my daily driver either, but I'd sure like to go to Best Buy and take a look at one. Thats my point, and my only point.

Android on a pc is illogical. Android is essentially a stripped down Linux OS. Why would you want a stripped down OS on your pc, unless of course you want your pc to be a thin client with all apps running in the cloud.

On the other hand, you can install any of Linux varieties which are lightweight, yet will allow full desktop productivity and cloud connectivity.

As far as Android (and iapple) apps are concerned, most were always a bad idea - just a bloat on screen. Why have an app for OpenTable, when OpenTable has a website, why do an app for NPR, when NPR has a website. Those apps were necessary for small screen of a phone, but become a moot point for full desktop. On a sidenote, with the smartphones become truly smart and having full browsing, phone apps should become unnecessary. The wexceptions will be games, productivity apps, essentially anything which already does not have a fully functioning website.

My daughter has a nokia E5 and says it runs for days on the charge.
The reason for a stripped down machine is that it gets the job done with longer battery life.
For everything else there is a desktop or a laptop.
Now we are getting tablets vs mobiles and I believe that they shall be only considered over laptops due to battery life. Not PC or laptop features.
Regards,
Khawar Nehal
http://atrc.net.pk

Linux distros. The more the merrier. ABW.

Linux is Linux (mostly).

I just discovered my Roku box runs on Linux, and has a Bluetooth remote.

If it's not noticeably Windows or Mac - it's Linux. From DSL modems to new Cisco equipment, new kitchen "smart" appliances - literally everything.

When you think of it in these terms Linux has an actual market share of 99%. Most people only know what they see, on the surface, everyday and don't think about it. The truth is...

They are surrounded

I remember telling someone that in the future the windows user shall one day comment that he/she is still using windows, but the Linux techies shall inform him/her that their computer was "changed/reformatted" to use Linux many days ago and they only though they were using Windows because they cannot see the seamless difference in a Windows or Linux machine anymore. Today is the day that this technology is available and Linux can actually look so much and comply so much that a windows user's computer can now be changed so they do not know the difference.
The day of 99% surrounded is here. Soon it shall be 100% with the wintel users still "thinking" they are still using windows.

Heck I place Libreoffice in clients computers and people do not notice for a long time that it is not the "original" MS office.
They are very happy when I tell them it shall not EXPIRE ever.

Khawar Nehal
http://atrc.net.pk

I would notice, especially when A) Linux uses a terminal(apt-get/yum)/Package manager to install most applications. B) Not all my USB devices will work, especially some Atheros-based wifi usb dongles. C) Internet Explorer isn't the default browser (I['m use to changing it to Firefox/Chrome) D) Not all my games will work, even using emulation. E) I will be happier to see a lot of my tools for web development are easier to setup/install, and less "looking around" for them on Linux. F) I use gimp on Windows, so not much difference in image editing G) They have crappy unintuitive video editors that I would just rage at.

I like to toss Lightweight PC's in machines. Give me good rockwell APPs and a cheap industrial PC so i don't have to drag a laptop around to do things.

Forgive me for having outgrowing such immature myopia a long time ago.

Every platform has pros and cons.

Attempting to insult me by calling me myopic and immature makes me feel young. And, as a matter of fact, I've suffered from myopia since I was eight years old. That was a long time ago.

If it has native mouse and keyboard support, plus other pc peripheral hardware we are used to now. Most importantly, if existing x86 applications are ported to Android platform this would be a must for me.

A good portion of these devices have mouse and keyboard support built in using USB or Bluetooth.

Almost all of them can E-print or some other form of printing to a wireless printer, what other peripherals do we use daily?

I would imagine that MS would likely develop Office for the platform, and for everything else there really is an app already. If there isn't the coding is easy enough that garage brew is a thriving industry on the platform.

My printer is an all-in-one: ptiner, fax machine, scanner, & card/USB reader. Will the non-printer functions work with Android OS? We'll have to see.

Other question, though: if you don't have built-in-wireless on your printer, will Android know what to do with the printer? Or, even if it has wirleess, what if you don't have a wireless router?

I doubt android would be able to use the non-printer functions. Most lower end devices don't even run on Mac's which are a full OS and have been in the market place for years. It is really up to the device manufacturer so if they decide to build an interface for the device then it will be available. If they don't then it probably won't be available.

Bill

If you don't like android, fair enough.

But your current attitude is not constructive, if you want to convince people to agree with you, then you'll need to provide specific examples and not just condemn an entire operating system because you personally don't like it.

The best way to protest Android if you're that dead-set against it is to support the competition with well structured arguments, not acting like an overgrown 5 year old.

Obvious troll is obvious...

people buy and use the device because it suits their needs. What you think is waste I think is great. My phone freed me from the tether of a laptop. If that isnt worthwhile I don't know what is. It also replaced a good chunk of my gaming devices, and bundled 30 years of the industry into a hand held package. Is it perfect? No, but it beats lugging my laptop to work, then to break, just to check my personal email.

http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-smartphone-platforms-2011-7

At this rate, every kid in the world will know more about an Android OS than any other; iOS being a close second.

You should get to know them. At some point these kids will grow up. Some will become developers, IT personnel, and begin making sweeping decisions about technology. They will do as all people do: they will run with what they know. Being kids, they will probably find some comfort in the open-ness of the platform and we will find ourselves in a world we didn't ask for...

Get on board, the world's changing. We'd prefer to have everyone along for the ride. And besides, the Android phones are REALLY cool. W00t!

True, there's Linux buried way beneath somewhere, but unless you root your phone (Which the average user will never do) you're pretty much limited to Android's Java API. All the Linux goodies are locked up. And even though there's some sort of consortium, it still comes down to what Google wants to let you have access to.

Echoeing what EzeComputer said, as long as it has the full version of Office applications running on it, i.e. Microst Office 2010, that would be very intriguing and very cool indeed.

I do love Documents to Go (use it regularaly on both my phone and android tablet). But it is no replacement for full blown Microsoft Office.

Document's to go is an extremely slim version of a couple of the office apps. It provides just enough functionality to get through the day not be efficient and productive.

Bill

I already bought one from Best Buy on Black Friday.

I had a choice, more windows(Proprietary) or Google Android.
Windows validates on the fly if you are the theoretical owner periodically, causing crashes.
Android does not have this validation(pirate) layer, making the systems more reliable.

It took me less than two minutes to decide on Google OS...

I still use Logmein running in Windows, and VNC from my tablets, best of both worlds.

Wish Android would add "Right click" capability for programmers.

I've had quite a contrary experience when comparing Microsoft to Google product.

Of the hundreds of Windows PCs I have or currently manage Windows Validation has never knowingly crashed.

However every single installation of Chrome I've come across has either caused crashes, locked out other browsers or (around 50% of cases) acted as an avenue for trojans which required significant system downtime.

At present I cannot trust Google to maintain whatever product they throw out into the marketplace. Their approach to Android, making the OEM responsible for updates, allows hardware flexibility (good) but leaves millions of users open to security vunerabilities for far too long after they've been identified.

I'll reconsider once their approach and overall support record improves.

If you are not running your networks from "hardened images" (running from backups, flushing periodically) then you will be spending your R&D time removing them, or flinching, when you stabilize your networks, then you might be able to see the effect of "validation after a hardware failure/ repair"

Being locked out of your purchased system for any reason is unacceptable if a viable alternative is available (hence Android Linux)

Periodically update Chrome for latest features, the only viruses I see are mostly from users that don't know to stop using IE explorer..

If you are connecting to windows to run apps then you might as well have purchased a windows machine. Do you ever connect from your windows machine to the android tablet? If you don't then that is an indication which OS you can truly live without.

Bill

Legacy programs that run on undocumented API's require legacy machines (MS-windows) WINE (Windows Emulator) has to recreate the errors in undocumented windows program calls that were never released to programmers, and the new flood of MS products compound this mess... no alternative but Android/Chrome /Linux (Google.)

"Windows validates on the fly if you are the theoretical owner periodically, causing crashes"
I only ever witnessed that behaviour on one PC - belonging to a person proud to have a pirated copy of the O/S. Maybe that was your experience?

Since it's free, if you consider android 4 incomplete, you can install the OS you like best along the android system ; freedom of choice will not be hindered by the cost of the pre-installed OS.

Not to do what I do on my desk top. I use top of the line Video Boards (2), 16 gig of memory + the video board memories and the photo editing do is not handled well by Android apps and plasma or LED monitors. They sound like the ideal for people who just chat, browse, email and Face Book and Twitter. But building and maintaining the mega web sites? I don't think it would handle the stuff I do.

I already run two other Linux distros, one with a RT-kernel to do some time critical stuff, one other for heavy graphic processing with a rich set of applications on the desktop.
I would really be interested in filling up the gap between the Android tablet and the desktop with an Android "PC".
Sure I could use the same distro as is on the desktop (and, Windows users, without any extra license fees , but I see the alignment with the tablet more important here since these would both be used mainly for Office type use.

Having different distros is not really an issue because data is always interchangeable. Sure, the applications must be loaded separately for each distro, but as most applications are ported to all popular distros this is not an issue.
Except for some heavier applications, you usually don't have to buy separate licenses (as you would need to, even if you had all identical Win OS machines).

It's an interesting idea.

The body of work I do on my laptop involves the use of full-blown graphics manipulation packages, including Photoshop and Lightroom. Now I know that there's a Photoshop app on the market for android - I'm dying to give it a go - but as an advanced user I'm pretty sure a 6GBP app is not going to be a real alternative to the full blown package. As a laptop replacement then it's a maybe, but I'm not convinced it's a viable alternative for me.

Professionally, I use Windows 7 as my primary platform, but VMWare Workstation provides me with Linux O/S access when required. Can't do that on Android, not yet anyway. I need access to legacy development and database management tools that only exist in a Windows format, and require access to network resources that rely on Active Directory for security and enterprise systems connectivity. So, is Android a viable O/S replacement for my desktop workstation? No way.

I would be fascinated by the possibilities of a device like the Eee Pad Transformer. I can see my Christmas Present list extending ;o) but the device would be a secondary platform option for me, not a replacement for my laptop at this time, and certainly not as a replacement for my desktop workstation.

I think there are quite a few Apps that allow you to access and control your PC/Mac from your Android device.. Try searching "Remote Access" in the Android Market.

The problem with short questions like 'Would you welcome an Android-powered PC?' is that is asks more questions than it answers. Would I able to use VS2010, SQLserver2012, msoft office on it? Could I use firefox on it. Is Android targeted at the social media audiance ONLY?. So the take home question is: does it have any business value or is it just play time value for the kind of person you see on the subway who is busy tapping keys on their mobile phone and accessing facebook?

Agreed. One particularly nefarious detail of Android machines is that you cannot choose your own browser - it's Chrome or nothing. At least Apple and MSFT allow you to choose....

With the Android market I can chose from many browsers.
Where do people dig up this nonsense, and why do they feel confident enough to baldly spread it around?

I suggest you go to the Android Market to do a simple search for "web browser" before you make comments like that. Went and searched and it popped up with a large number of alternate browsers including Opera, Dolphin, Miren, Puffin, Skyfire... Or did you mean a choice of Safari or Internet Explorer on Android?

To me, most of the comments here are more than likely from computer geeks and not the man in the street. Now think in terms of the general public looking at purchasing a low priced system that allows him to type a letter, send an email, surf the net and maybe play a game or two. So bottom line, he wants ???economic functionality??? and if that is promised and delivered, you have a deal, irrespective of the OS.

One political point about Google, I don???t like the fact that the Chinese government or any government has the ability to restrict or redact internet content. Google gave the Chinese government an extra lever of control over its own population for the price of an additional revenue stream. The ethics of Google suggest that any operating system that they design will be available to the highest government bidder. Do you want democracy / freedom of speech or do you worry about google selling ownership of android to the Chinese government so that we can all be monitored?

Or did you miss the whole of last year?
Microsoft is still in China, and gave them the code for everything.
Google refused to do the censoring that china wanted and is no longer in China for search. So who has the better politics?

Microsoft gave NT4 complete to the Russian government several years ago. I thought that was smart because they would have spent a number of years wasted time trying to understand what was accentually a load of C**P. I think this was in windows XP time period so NT4 was a few generations out of date. I worry about Chinese progress; if you look on their web sites you cant understand anything even if its about software development. Google left china with a huge technical step forward in search engines and understanding the network infrastructure involved in supporting the internet. Better politics, the answer is China. They got a lot out of Google.

If it has a regular update, yes. I have a bad experience with Motorola?? smartphone powered by Android. As it doesn??t have OS upgrade, I can??t use all the features.

I use Android on my smart phone and I like it. Having said that I am not about to replace Windows 7 with ICS or any other version of Android any time soon.

My Acer Aspire one netbook has duel booted android for over a year. For quick email and internet Android delivers. For office productivity I boot the full fat OS.

This particular version does not have access to the market, I presume because it pre-dates the Ipad and thus the new wave of tablet formatted apps. With Ice Cream all that should be resolved.

I would upgrade to Ice Cream on the Acer if possible. I guess a lot depends upon how you define laptop. Whether you are looking for a desktop replacement, or a surfing machine.