Everything you've mentioned has gave me nightmares lol. I'm excited, but frightened at the same time.
Another thing I'm concerned about is... well I'm primarily a PC game developer. I'm just wondering how the game market for Win8 will change from Win7 (if at all). I'm worried that we'll basically be expected to make touch friendly games that are more like Angry Birds than Team Fortress. It also makes me wonder how much of each kind of game we'll see. If we'll just see a flood of "Touch Style" games or if it won't change much. Either way, I'll jump onto "Touch Style" games if that is what gets popular.
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If you are a game developer( definitely not the same as an app developer!), you can continue to develop games. There is no one forcing you to develop your games for the app space. The desktop space is still there. You don't need any "touch enabled" features to play many games. I have loaded over 20 desktop games and the only one that did not work was TERA. All the others work fine.
developed for Win 8 to go through the Microsoft Store.
Writing two sets of code within a single application IS going to be a real pain, not to mention the expense and the increased probability of bugs. One set for "touchy-feely" tablets, and another set for keyboard-centric notebooks and desktops. Since Microsoft has not publicly stated that the UI interface can be bypassed via a Control Panel element, developers have to allow for the fact "it" could or will appear. Now what? Write code to handle it? Write code to disable it and return to traditional interaction? Write code to handle either situation? A real mess.
It will make people not adopt windows 8, and this will cause windows 8 to crash and burn, you will then see a windows 9 "Classic" which will basically be 7 with a fresh coat of paint.
I think Microsoft needs to step down! Give me a break! Thanks for making my life a pain in the butt! As with Windows 7 and even Vista, the growing concern for Information Tech Pros and Developers is that Windows is just a big load of crap! Lets start moving into a world of less restrictions on the technology and more innovation than making me bow down to your rules and standards. Who are they to restrict me on my creativity and also stop me from using a piece of hardware I buy for my own personal use and change it how ever I see fit! ARM? Give me a break! And people wonder why I stop developing on the Windows Platform years ago and went straight to web based application!!!
I think you should revise your overreaching article to say 10 reasons why developing for win8 METRO might be painful. If half of the things you've said were true, none of the programs I'm currently using on my win8 slate, a PHYSICAL device and not a VM, would run but if you apply your statement to Metro specifically then yes, you're points are somewhat accurate but as someone who has written several Metro apps for Win8, I have to say that I didn't find the points you listed all that bad. Metro still allows .net so if you have a recently developed desktop application that you'd like to create a metro front end for, that code will migrate painlessly and you'll just have to recreate the gui...if you developed a web services based app, you'll be able to grab that data easily and use it in your application. This article raises some inaccurate points and to say Metro has been universally panned in also inaccurate as is your "virtual machine" requirement myth as evidenced by the fact that my reply was composed on my Samsung Series 7 Slate running Windows 8. I have serious doubts about the quality of this highly misleading article.
"If you are looking to develop Windows 8 native applications with the new Metro UI and WinRT API, be careful of these 10 things."
In the introduction paragraph.
J.Ja
In the introduction paragraph.
J.Ja
Another Microsoft slowing down of our industries.Win Builder,one of the few software programs out there that is used to write operating systems,doesn't work.It stopped working!
Actually, it builds live Windows images, not operating systems. And it can be tricky if you are using a predefined project especially if it isn't maintained. But it will build images for 8.
I don't understand why one thing is great for Mac OS and his developers and the "stability" of all the environment (Mac don't crash (false), restricted disk access, mac's rules for apps,...) the same this is painful for PC programmers...
I'll take a stab at this. The development model that Windows GUI developers use is one with fairly unrestricted disk access. The only restriction is placed on traditional user roles. So if the app. is run in a user account, they're restricted to the user's directories. If they're run as Admin, they have pretty much unrestricted access. Most GUI apps. are run in a single thread, with an event model, with some multi-threading for CPU/network-intensive stuff. Asynchronous execution is an add-on, not a main feature.
Even when it comes to web apps., they typically operate like a transaction system, where there's a call to a function on the server, and the client waits for the response. The server generates some content/data and sends it back to the client. Often web apps. have fairly unrestricted disk access on the server as well. Again, the app. often runs in a single thread within a session.
So having restricted disk access and running asynchronous code as a normal part of the application structure is an adjustment for developers used to a tree directory structure, and synchronous code execution. The touch interface is an adjustment as well, since it's not convenient to manipulate small items on the screen. You can't use menus and small icons. You need interactive elements that can be manipulated more, or at least that can just be pressed. The interface has to be simpler. Complex apps. need a redesign of the UI.
Developers have been able to write apps. for the iPhone since about 2008, so they've had a head start.
Even when it comes to web apps., they typically operate like a transaction system, where there's a call to a function on the server, and the client waits for the response. The server generates some content/data and sends it back to the client. Often web apps. have fairly unrestricted disk access on the server as well. Again, the app. often runs in a single thread within a session.
So having restricted disk access and running asynchronous code as a normal part of the application structure is an adjustment for developers used to a tree directory structure, and synchronous code execution. The touch interface is an adjustment as well, since it's not convenient to manipulate small items on the screen. You can't use menus and small icons. You need interactive elements that can be manipulated more, or at least that can just be pressed. The interface has to be simpler. Complex apps. need a redesign of the UI.
Developers have been able to write apps. for the iPhone since about 2008, so they've had a head start.
If you've been a Windows developers, your apps are probably built to do things a certain way, and the Metro/WinRT system won't allow it. Any time you write a file or read a file, you need to completely reengineer those sections. In many cases, you won't even be able to rewrite the application. For example, you won't see a Metro/WinRT registry editor or defrag tool.
At best, developers will need to relearn concepts that they've been using without change since they learned to program.
J.Ja
At best, developers will need to relearn concepts that they've been using without change since they learned to program.
J.Ja
Are you saying no one will be able to write a defrag or registry editor for Windows 8 using Metro/WinRT? How then will we defrag disks and edit the registry?
Given that many will still be operating without a constant network connection, how would they save their work? How do they create a Word document for example, If no Metro/WinRT applications can write to the local disk?
Or, are they saying that the Office suite will not be Metro/WinRT based?
Given that many will still be operating without a constant network connection, how would they save their work? How do they create a Word document for example, If no Metro/WinRT applications can write to the local disk?
Or, are they saying that the Office suite will not be Metro/WinRT based?
"Are you saying no one will be able to write a defrag or registry editor for Windows 8 using Metro/WinRT?"
Yes, REALLY.
"How then will we defrag disks and edit the registry?"
On an Intel machine, you can still do those tasks from a "legacy" application. On an ARM machine, you don't need to do those tasks because 1) they are almost all going to be using SSD and 2) since nothing can touch the registry except the OS, you don't need to do it from your apps either. There MAY be system tools to do it if needed for support.
"Given that many will still be operating without a constant network connection, how would they save their work?"
There is still local storage, but you are basically limited to AppData and My Documents. I never said that Metro/WinRT "can't write to the local disk", I said that the functions you are used to (such as File.Open) are gone. Instead, there are ways to request a file be written to or read, and they are highly secured.
"Or, are they saying that the Office suite will not be Metro/WinRT based?"
There is already a Metro (but not WinRT) Office, it comes on WP7 phones. At the very least, I'd expect that to be available. Nothing has been publicly announced though.
J.Ja
Yes, REALLY.
"How then will we defrag disks and edit the registry?"
On an Intel machine, you can still do those tasks from a "legacy" application. On an ARM machine, you don't need to do those tasks because 1) they are almost all going to be using SSD and 2) since nothing can touch the registry except the OS, you don't need to do it from your apps either. There MAY be system tools to do it if needed for support.
"Given that many will still be operating without a constant network connection, how would they save their work?"
There is still local storage, but you are basically limited to AppData and My Documents. I never said that Metro/WinRT "can't write to the local disk", I said that the functions you are used to (such as File.Open) are gone. Instead, there are ways to request a file be written to or read, and they are highly secured.
"Or, are they saying that the Office suite will not be Metro/WinRT based?"
There is already a Metro (but not WinRT) Office, it comes on WP7 phones. At the very least, I'd expect that to be available. Nothing has been publicly announced though.
J.Ja
ide loading, third party applications with out going to the application store as long as they are digitally signed, and all the old application from windows 7 you can run on windows 8.) C# and Visual Basic built on top of .NET and Silverlight C and C++ built in the Win 32 API HTML/Javascript on top of Internet Explorer. What am I missing from the programing languages . Is there some new language out I dont know about.
Software engineers and IT people in general are expected to learn new technologies as they become available and find practical uses for them.
If this change its being "forced" on us by big evil brother microsoft then each of us will decide as individuals if we are willing to step out of our comfort zone and give it a try, or just complain and say that all past times are always better, and spent lots of time to sell the kool aid that the "new stuff" its bad for you (as it seems to me its your case).
I've been around long enough to see the change from DOS based applications to "visual" ones. Now we are moving from visual to "touch" ones. I remember people claiming that the new paradigm was bad and will never prosper...
I challenge you to write a positive article and find 10 reasons why you should at least give Win8/Metro development a try. enough with the negativity!
If this change its being "forced" on us by big evil brother microsoft then each of us will decide as individuals if we are willing to step out of our comfort zone and give it a try, or just complain and say that all past times are always better, and spent lots of time to sell the kool aid that the "new stuff" its bad for you (as it seems to me its your case).
I've been around long enough to see the change from DOS based applications to "visual" ones. Now we are moving from visual to "touch" ones. I remember people claiming that the new paradigm was bad and will never prosper...
I challenge you to write a positive article and find 10 reasons why you should at least give Win8/Metro development a try. enough with the negativity!
The adjective in the article's title was 'Painful', not 'Bad'.
Oh, and this article is over a year old. There have been plenty of positive ones on this site (although I didn't agree with most of them).
Oh, and this article is over a year old. There have been plenty of positive ones on this site (although I didn't agree with most of them).
Windows applications could do everything that DOS applications could and much more. Windows Store applications can do a tiny fraction of what desktop applications can do. The first transition was progress without doubt. The second is a mixed bag at best.
WRONGO, in your claim that 'Windows applications could do everything that DOS applications could' -- many of us businesses stay on DOS because some of the programs written in it, are still superior to anything MS or Apple can provide. Excel is horrible for actuarial calculations and auditing, so I stayed in old Lotus 1-2-3 for DOS. I can run those old programs and my templates in XP, but maybe can't run them in Win7. IBM, which sponsors Lotus now, said they 'cannot guarantee' that these programs will even run in Win7; so I just bought a Win7 machine in Dell Auction, to test it. But I won't be using that machine, except as a last resort.
Win8 is a nightmare for business. So bet that apps made by developers, will become popular (and hence profitable) if the apps restore commonality with the previous OS interface. Else, sales will be sluggish, and any profit will come only in apps written for consumer computers/tablets. I will never be in the latter category.
By contrast, Linux development might finally come into maturity. It should be justifiable to PAY for Linux applications, and either partially or wholly protect the code. Linux desperately needs priced apps to take off on consumer desktops. Since Android is so popular now, there's a potential for a unifying with Linux. Hopefully, the developers will not write code as stupidly as MS has done, instead separating touch-centric apps from desktop apps: and then sell 'bundles' to those wanting both types. The unity of the app's OWN interface would be a major plus, so you can come home and continue to run your app on your desktop. Were I a tablet user, I'd sure like such a 'bundle', which doesn't FORCE me to use my desktop as I use my tablet.
Win8 is a nightmare for business. So bet that apps made by developers, will become popular (and hence profitable) if the apps restore commonality with the previous OS interface. Else, sales will be sluggish, and any profit will come only in apps written for consumer computers/tablets. I will never be in the latter category.
By contrast, Linux development might finally come into maturity. It should be justifiable to PAY for Linux applications, and either partially or wholly protect the code. Linux desperately needs priced apps to take off on consumer desktops. Since Android is so popular now, there's a potential for a unifying with Linux. Hopefully, the developers will not write code as stupidly as MS has done, instead separating touch-centric apps from desktop apps: and then sell 'bundles' to those wanting both types. The unity of the app's OWN interface would be a major plus, so you can come home and continue to run your app on your desktop. Were I a tablet user, I'd sure like such a 'bundle', which doesn't FORCE me to use my desktop as I use my tablet.
You really look at these issues from multiple points of view. 
I've come to learn that nothing is entirely "bad" or "good" with this stuff... as they say in "Dune", "fortune flows everywhere".
J.Ja
J.Ja
A Metro app has 5 seconds to store the state when it looses focus. If I see that my app does that in 3 seconds, how can I be sure that it will still do that in less than 5 seconds on the client's hardware?
This is simply untrue. There are plenty of x86 tablets to choose from.
I've like some examples of x86 tablets... not "convertible PCs" but true tablets in the size, form factor, and with performance characteristics like an iPad or an Android tablet. Oh, and what about the ARM tablets?
J.Ja
J.Ja
Asus EP121, BP121 and Samsung Series 7 Slate, there a number out there.
I've read all the comments and they mostly make sense.
My big question is this, is Winrt dev model powerful enough to provide all sort of tools that are responsible for making the windows experience special? Or would people be forced to use badly thought out programs from Microsoft.
Take defrag for instance, Microsoft's own version is complete crap, "Smart Defrag" is wonderful. There are tons of other examples but I'm sure you'll get my point.
Is winrt a toy?
My big question is this, is Winrt dev model powerful enough to provide all sort of tools that are responsible for making the windows experience special? Or would people be forced to use badly thought out programs from Microsoft.
Take defrag for instance, Microsoft's own version is complete crap, "Smart Defrag" is wonderful. There are tons of other examples but I'm sure you'll get my point.
Is winrt a toy?
WinRT is aimed at the needs of tablets, and you really don't need to do those things on a tablet. Tablets are designed to "just work", and when apps get that access, they do things that break devices. Just look at Windows! How many times has a rogue app made the whole system unstable? With the tablet model, you really don't need apps to have that access. No defrag? Who cares, with a tablet you aren't going to be putting enough data (or the kind of data) locally for it to matter. No registry editing? Good, the last thing I want is a trashed system anyways, apps should use their own, isolated configuration and that's it. No access to the system files? Great! Because if an app has a security exploit in it, wouldn't you rather that it not have access to that stuff? Etc.
J.Ja
J.Ja
Let's count the alternatives...Mac, Windows XP, Vista, 7, Linux versions (more than I can mention) why use Windows 8? It is just the next step of Microsoft to move back to the mainframe days. They want everyone to pay for everything, turning on the machine, using the apps, using the OS. I saw this coming a long time ago. Maybe it is time to make the break and go GNU.
"Maybe it is time to make the break and go GNU."
Nah. Give BSD Unix a shot (FreeBSD, maybe, or PC-BSD if that's more your style).
Nah. Give BSD Unix a shot (FreeBSD, maybe, or PC-BSD if that's more your style).
I saw an interesting comment for this article on reddit. It suggests Win8 might be a "skip" release.
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/n2qav/10_reasons_windows_8_will_be_painful_for/c36c4id?context=3
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/n2qav/10_reasons_windows_8_will_be_painful_for/c36c4id?context=3
... I see it as a nearly clean break from the past. Microsoft is clearly throwing in the towel on the desktop market, and sees it rapidly declining into a niche market (developers, multimedia editors, etc.). Basically, they see desktop app users becoming at best a bit more common than OS X users, and everyone else moving to Web apps or the tablet (or tablet + docking station) model. If you don't like it, they'll be more than happy to let you sit on Windows 7 for as long as folks sat on XP.
Indeed, I suspect it was the folks who had the "you can't pry XP from my cold, dead fingers" that finally made Microsoft just go all-in on Windows 8 being a clean break. Why invest resources in trying to improve a desktop model that, for all intents and purposes, is more than feature complete, really can't become any more stable or secure given the base assumptions of the OS that the applications depend on being there, etc. when users will yawn and not upgrade anyways? What would they do to Windows 8 that Windows 7 doesn't already do? Windows is at the point that Office reached 10 - 15 years ago, where "upgrades" barely even changed the color of the car. Windows 7 was a refinement to Vista. Vista was a refinement (mostly security based) to XP. Most of the non-security things that came in Vista/Windows 7 went unused or underappreciated (Silverlight/WPF, the identity stuff, Media Center, etc. etc. etc.).
The market has spoken clearly, the desktop model holds no interest for most folks, so long as they can continue using the 1 - 3 native apps (at most!) that they need. Dump Office and only an extraordinarily few people on the consumer end, and increasingly fewer people on the enterprise end need the desktop at all.
In nutshell... if you currently use Windows 7 in a manner that you couldn't easily switch to OS X, *Nix desktop, an iPad, an Android tablet, etc., then Windows 8 isn't for you anyways. If your workload is basically Windows-independent, then Windows 8 can be a good to great move for you, depending on your hardware and work style.
J.Ja
Indeed, I suspect it was the folks who had the "you can't pry XP from my cold, dead fingers" that finally made Microsoft just go all-in on Windows 8 being a clean break. Why invest resources in trying to improve a desktop model that, for all intents and purposes, is more than feature complete, really can't become any more stable or secure given the base assumptions of the OS that the applications depend on being there, etc. when users will yawn and not upgrade anyways? What would they do to Windows 8 that Windows 7 doesn't already do? Windows is at the point that Office reached 10 - 15 years ago, where "upgrades" barely even changed the color of the car. Windows 7 was a refinement to Vista. Vista was a refinement (mostly security based) to XP. Most of the non-security things that came in Vista/Windows 7 went unused or underappreciated (Silverlight/WPF, the identity stuff, Media Center, etc. etc. etc.).
The market has spoken clearly, the desktop model holds no interest for most folks, so long as they can continue using the 1 - 3 native apps (at most!) that they need. Dump Office and only an extraordinarily few people on the consumer end, and increasingly fewer people on the enterprise end need the desktop at all.
In nutshell... if you currently use Windows 7 in a manner that you couldn't easily switch to OS X, *Nix desktop, an iPad, an Android tablet, etc., then Windows 8 isn't for you anyways. If your workload is basically Windows-independent, then Windows 8 can be a good to great move for you, depending on your hardware and work style.
J.Ja
I talked with the editor of an industry magazine, who's been writing about the computer industry since the late 1970s, about W8. He said 1) that MS was pretty much forced into the consumer devices market by Apple's success there, and 2) W8 Metro on the desktop/laptop is an effort to provide software compatibility between Microsoft's platforms. The idea being that you can write your app. once for all devices, and you can run the app. on the desktop/laptop as well. I've heard others describe this, but more in the sense that desk/laptops will be able to run apps. written for phones and tablets, not so much the other way around. The kind of software you can run on the traditional Windows platform is not so easily brought into the phone/tablet world. It is a statement, though, that MS believes devices are going to be their growth market in the future, and they're just bringing desk/laptops along.
I asked him about what this does to business IT that's using Windows now. It seemed to me MS was abandoning that market. He disagreed, saying that the consistency between platforms would be seen as a boon to business IT, though he conceded that on phones and tablets there's a "feature max" you can run into quickly with business apps., and that not all applications will be able to transition to devices, because the method of interaction on the device is too limited.
I asked him about what this does to business IT that's using Windows now. It seemed to me MS was abandoning that market. He disagreed, saying that the consistency between platforms would be seen as a boon to business IT, though he conceded that on phones and tablets there's a "feature max" you can run into quickly with business apps., and that not all applications will be able to transition to devices, because the method of interaction on the device is too limited.
He stuck WinME in there as a "skip" after Win2K. That doesn't make sense. Win2K was the successor to WinNT. WinME was the last of the Win9x line. They were two different codebases. I remember hearing complaints about Win2K, mainly about security. If I remember correctly, the most virulent worms took advantage of exploits on Win2K. So it would've been more like:
WinNT - OK. I have to reboot once a week, but OK
Win2K - (Say hello to my little friend.) AHHH!
WinXP - Nice, but a few bugs here and th... Oh crap!
WinXP SP 2 - Nice!
and then what he said...
I remember developers saying at the time that XP SP 2 was like a whole new OS release. It was that significant a difference.
WinNT - OK. I have to reboot once a week, but OK
Win2K - (Say hello to my little friend.) AHHH!
WinXP - Nice, but a few bugs here and th... Oh crap!
WinXP SP 2 - Nice!
and then what he said...
I remember developers saying at the time that XP SP 2 was like a whole new OS release. It was that significant a difference.
Win2K was the first attempt to unify the two lines in a new OS release, but home users essentially revolted because they didn't like the security provisions of the OS (logging in, for instance). Microsoft was not getting anywhere near the needed uptake, so it threw some fancy new crap on top of the Win98 codebase without sufficient testing just to get something out the door that home users would find comforting in its familiar dumbed-down state, and called it Windows Millennium Edition. Meanwhile, they worked on something a bit less thrown-together, providing dumbed-down interface options with rounded corners and glossy effects, as a second attempt at unifying the product lines, and a little over a year after Win2K they had WinXP.
Under the hood, WinXP (no service pack) was essentially indistinguishable from Win2K. Only the Fisher-Price widget set and other home user oriented interface nonsense significantly differed. SP1 and SP2 edged WinXP closer to what Microsoft had originally intended to be the next release after Win2K, which is why by the time SP2 was released it was essentially a different OS than the original WinXP release (though it had the same skin).
Discounting the changes made in service packs, Win2K was actually the better OS between it and WinXP. The rapid obsolescing of Win2K is what gave people the impression it did not measure up to WinXP, because it did not get the same attention to improvement over time. The biggest changes pushed out to Win2K in its service packs were EULA alterations. If Win2K had gotten the same sort of technical attention over time as WinXP (but without the "push it toward a new OS" growth curve), I'm sure it would have continued to be the better OS, in fact. Instead, it got left in the swamps to moulder.
Under the hood, WinXP (no service pack) was essentially indistinguishable from Win2K. Only the Fisher-Price widget set and other home user oriented interface nonsense significantly differed. SP1 and SP2 edged WinXP closer to what Microsoft had originally intended to be the next release after Win2K, which is why by the time SP2 was released it was essentially a different OS than the original WinXP release (though it had the same skin).
Discounting the changes made in service packs, Win2K was actually the better OS between it and WinXP. The rapid obsolescing of Win2K is what gave people the impression it did not measure up to WinXP, because it did not get the same attention to improvement over time. The biggest changes pushed out to Win2K in its service packs were EULA alterations. If Win2K had gotten the same sort of technical attention over time as WinXP (but without the "push it toward a new OS" growth curve), I'm sure it would have continued to be the better OS, in fact. Instead, it got left in the swamps to moulder.
After being dumped with the push to dotNET...
I think it is time to re-evaluate whether I even want to be a pro-Windows developer!
Sure, it is a Windows world, and there will be pain there, too. And, possible loss of revenue.
But, Linux has been Linux "forever". Windows changes constantly. And, that without regard to either End User or Developer software and hardware investment.
As much as I am pro-Windows... It may finally be time to cut the apron strings!
And, I've been "Microsoft" since DOS 3.3!
Too much Government, Too much Microsoft time to pare down!
I think it is time to re-evaluate whether I even want to be a pro-Windows developer!
Sure, it is a Windows world, and there will be pain there, too. And, possible loss of revenue.
But, Linux has been Linux "forever". Windows changes constantly. And, that without regard to either End User or Developer software and hardware investment.
As much as I am pro-Windows... It may finally be time to cut the apron strings!
And, I've been "Microsoft" since DOS 3.3!
Too much Government, Too much Microsoft time to pare down!
I think their ad dept made a typo in the press release. The real product name is ME-TOO not metro. Windows ME-TOO is designed to follow it's namesake into history as another great joke foisted on M$'s customers.
Developers are a pretty resilient breed; they adapt to the short comings of the OS and continue to produce wondrous products. I have been developing business solutions behind firewalls since the PCjr days and more than a few times I look over applications we developed and marvel at what they do! What I have found is that our productivity is not dependent on what Microsoft, Apple, or Linux ???allow??? us to do but what we want done. Go forth and produce the ???workarounds???!!!
Can I use my audio cassette recorder to make a copy of my favorite albums then make a copy for my friend?The movies that you download from share sites do not have any FBI do not copy warnings.The Internet is the closest thing that we have to the original.I notice that some downloaded movies are definitely not the original!It's really common to see false impersonating bands in YouTube.
One of my clients is running SQL2002 and refuses to upgrade because he said "as a business man why should I spend money replacing something that been working perfectly for 10 years?" Yes, I told him it's no longer supported, but he says "I'll switch when it stops working". So, I have to keep an XP PC to support SQL2002 (Vista won't install it).
When I got another PC it came with Vista - that's when I discovered SQL2002 would not install. Moved all my development to the Vista PC EXCEPT the SQL2002 clients' apps.
New client uses SQL2005 - ah! that installed on Vista AND XP. Considered moving all my development projects back to XP since at least all my projects work there. Then, another client informs me he's moving to SQL2012. Woops - installs on Vista but it won't install on XP. There went that idea.
Spent many hours the past month purchasing/building up a new Laptop with dual boot XP and Vista so I can have all my work on one unit when I travel. Almost there.
Conclusion, XP still works just fine. Vista works fine for the tools I use. I make money working on projects for my clients. I do not make money on hours spent going through hoops to keep up with what the OS allows me to do or not to do. So I really don't see any Win 8 in my near future.
When I got another PC it came with Vista - that's when I discovered SQL2002 would not install. Moved all my development to the Vista PC EXCEPT the SQL2002 clients' apps.
New client uses SQL2005 - ah! that installed on Vista AND XP. Considered moving all my development projects back to XP since at least all my projects work there. Then, another client informs me he's moving to SQL2012. Woops - installs on Vista but it won't install on XP. There went that idea.
Spent many hours the past month purchasing/building up a new Laptop with dual boot XP and Vista so I can have all my work on one unit when I travel. Almost there.
Conclusion, XP still works just fine. Vista works fine for the tools I use. I make money working on projects for my clients. I do not make money on hours spent going through hoops to keep up with what the OS allows me to do or not to do. So I really don't see any Win 8 in my near future.
Why are you choosing to dual boot vs build a Virtual Machine of XP? I had a similar issue when being the only one in the company to use a Mac and so I had to run a VM of Windows XP and Vista to run some stuff but I work mostly on Linux based operating systems so it didn't effect me that bad. But still, why not VM?
I have encounter many CRASHED with VM when close to dry up resources, like when you have heaps of network drives doing some copying now you pop in a USB stick, the host try to read it then VM try to take over it, you will see how great the VM is, it will only works when you mostly idle your host. Beside Vista really keen on BSOD.
One OS with its associated platform is difficult enough for developers to handle. Now that MS want developers to create applications for a hybrid OS (supposedly running on either or both of two platforms) is going to be hellish. Two separate and discrete OSs would have been a much better choice--then developers could work with each OS separately.
... where I witnessed very interesting conversation. The topic was Windows 8 application design for developers. Lecturer described grid, fonts, margins etc into great detail, and then she went on to menus, navigation, and so on. During this, she was interrupted by somehow irritated question from the public:
"Hey, what about data entry?"
Answer: "Windows 8 apps are not meant for data entry. They are meant to be used anytime, anywhere, in any situation, for information consumption, not production. You know, browsing shopping catalogues, news, and such."
Question: "But what about business applications?"
Answer: "They belong to desktop, not to Windows 8 app store. Business apps deal with tens of thousands of items or more. There is now way Windows 8 app UI could handle this. As a matter of fact, I can't even imagine things like Photoshop running under Win 8."
Q: "B-b-b-but grumble grumble!?"
A: "Consider this. What would you prefer do develop
- a business application only a couple of companies are interested in
- an application for App Store with at least half a billion of potential customers?"
And that pretty much nailed it.
"Hey, what about data entry?"
Answer: "Windows 8 apps are not meant for data entry. They are meant to be used anytime, anywhere, in any situation, for information consumption, not production. You know, browsing shopping catalogues, news, and such."
Question: "But what about business applications?"
Answer: "They belong to desktop, not to Windows 8 app store. Business apps deal with tens of thousands of items or more. There is now way Windows 8 app UI could handle this. As a matter of fact, I can't even imagine things like Photoshop running under Win 8."
Q: "B-b-b-but grumble grumble!?"
A: "Consider this. What would you prefer do develop
- a business application only a couple of companies are interested in
- an application for App Store with at least half a billion of potential customers?"
And that pretty much nailed it.
The first ones may have more potential customers, but the second ones are making way more money.
Framing questions as 'Either / or' ignores all the other possibilities. It ignores developing a business application LOTS of companies are interested in.
Framing questions as 'Either / or' ignores all the other possibilities. It ignores developing a business application LOTS of companies are interested in.
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