Discussion on:

10 technologies that are just plain broken

It is blatantly obvious that Microsoft has and is ignoring point #10; in their development of Windows 8. While it may be a great product for tablets, what is "in there" for the notebook and desktop users who rely on keyboards for interaction? As of now, very little.

Most people seem to either not realize it is there or continue to say the same thing in an effort to make Windows 8 look bad before release.

The fact is the desktop is still there. You can still use keyboard and mouse as you always have. Just because the new start screen on the desktop has been metro-ized doesn't mean Microsoft abandoned the traditional desktop (they didn't).

But they are making you go through an interface that you might not want to get there. It would be like making the touch interface on a tablet require you to select the app using a desktop. People would be pissed because it is awkward to get to the thing they want to use. Same thing but in reverse for desktop users. To add insult to it out of the box it requires you to go back to the clunky touch interface everytime you hit the start menu and want to select another app. You can pin them to your desktop/taskbar which is the only saving grace.

Apple with Lion, and Windows 8: the commercial OS makers seem to be so in love with "apps" that they forget that users dropping 1k+ on a desktop want a full featured application not angry birds.

I think this is something that isn't fully addressed from Microsoft or any other websites talking about the new Metro style apps. This "mode" if you will, can be disabled so that you have the desktop experience that you (as well as others) are comfortable with. I agree that the the desktop PC is not ready for the new layout, but I also think that it would be very cool to see on a tablet. Main point, they aren't ruining the desktop experience for anyone, just simply giving you another way to complete tasks (aka the Microsoft way).

It's not about where you run things from. It's about not covering things that are already running with something else when you want to start a second/third/15th app. It's about not using all the screen space for a single app or a switcher/launcher.

When you don't know from day to day which of over a thousand documents you are going to need, pinning the documents themselves is senseless. I pinned the customer sub-directories.

I agree with you rdawson, its quite tiring all the pontificating about" I cant stand the new desktop", its plainly obvious that they have never used the pre release Win 8.Far too much incorrect comment that are inaccuracies that are being taken as gospel but in reality are pure hearsay.

I am not a Windows 8 user, I am currently using Windows 7 and Linux (dual boot is a wonderful thing.)

That said, I think that you should remember that Windows 8 is currently Alpha software. This is a PROPOSED layout for the release, which is still a year away. I would expect that around half of the features that are in it will be dropped by the time it is released, and that there may well be features in the final release that are not in it yet.

As an Alpha release, You should be pleased that it runs at all.

Take another look at it in six months, if you are a Windows sort of person. Until then, what you see isn't necessarily what you will get.

If you still hate it, there is always Linux. Mint might be best for you right now, though Simply Mepis is also great. And Who knows, Canonical might even be hit by a massive wave of common sense by that time.

You're living on a completely different plane of existence if you honestly believe that Microsoft will abandon the new interface of Windows 8. Their entire argument for the existence of Windows 8 is based around the new interface! How could they abandon it? If they drop it, they can't release Windows 8, because it would be nothing more than Windows 7.1.

What you (and others like you) will soon discover is what the intelligent and experienced users have been saying for a long time, which is that Windows 8 will be a total and complete flop - something that will make the Vista flop look like a walk in the park by comparison. Microsoft needs to understand that if they want to produce an operating system for tablets, that's fine, produce one FOR tablets. But don't try to take your half-assed tablet operating system and force it onto the desktop and laptop market. Any and all employees that were part of that "brilliant" business decision should be fired en masse.

Have you used Windows 8? No, you haven't.
You MAY have used the developer preview, so what? This is developed so DEVELOPERS can use the DEVELOPER tools and API's of Windows 8 to see how to adjust the timeline of their applications.

Windows 8 is not about producing a tablet operating system, or a desktop operating system, but MERGING the two (as of now) VERY different worlds to give the user a similar/same experience in whatever device he/she happens to have handy.
Windows Applications (exe's) will still run on x86 and x64 systems and Win8/Web Apps will run on all systems x86/x64/ARM.

This is what consumers have wanted since the first smartphone, this is the way forward.
Therefore, Windows 8 will not flop, Windows 8 will be what Apple always wanted to be, One Ring to rule them all.

And you, sir, come 2013, shall be consuming your headwear....

(Oh and Re: "Can't release, Nothing more than Windows 7.1"...
It didn't stop the iPhone 4S outselling the iPhone 4 did it??)

Actually Windows 7 is Windows 6.1, check the build number.

Are you in reference to the phone or desktop?

There are several reasons WHY one would have a lower build number is because of the Win 7 version they have. In phones, the earliest versions DID have a build number of 6.1 in development; but not the OS Tower --- however, I have seen some laptops with this build number of 6.0 or 6.1 version in Windows 7 lowest edition.

Nevertheless, all of mine are well over the 7.xxx and higher as my Server is SPLIT; so I can run on this desktop on the Win 8 without wrecking havoc on the Win 7 Ultimate if Win 8 crashed.

If you know what you are doing, you can SPLIT your Server (as I have been doing this for years since Win 95 with 286, 386 and 486 Towers - I learned to split or divide them - when piloting or aka testing Win 98 which we know it as "BETA" in today's terminology). I have been splitting my Server into multiple Windows OS for testing but one also needs a heck a lot of TB's and power to run this BETA's today than it was back then and understanding how to run it in BIOS first in order to run which Windows OS you want to run off of.

A price to pay for this hard work; yet, having the back up is imperative as well in event of crash; especially with BETA - RC's.

While I cannot go into further discussion but I have found some detailed information which was disclosed to Microsoft that was very helpful to them as detailed as it was (consider it to be a form of "networking").

It DOES NOT MATTER what type of OS one is going to pick - Win, Mac, IBM, et al... you are always going to run into issues - period. There are no "perfect" and "flawless" computers out there; we wish there were, yet, the goal and desire to create perfection I cannot say isn't unrealistic nor can I say it can't be done either ... for I can say this:

For every pretty lovely Rose you see out there, there are tons of thorns in its way. So true in technology, all these thorn in its sides which hinders the pathways to attain to accomplishments, but one day, it will come to the point where it will become a bud, then a blossming blooming beautiful Rose that everyone would convet over for.

We will get there eventually... in my humble opinion.

It doesn't make sense to try to unite desktop and tablet applications in one release cycle. The best you can end up with is a hodge-podge of tablet users forced to use certain desktop-style apps in classic mode while desktop users (by default) have to go through a giant, inefficient touch UI with a mouse.

The two have to exist in separate, parallel devices until tablets and their apps can do everything we do on a PC -- which I'm just not sure is all that realistic. But it's definitely foolish to think you can drop users into a new UI with no transition. YES, it can be disabled. CAN be. But it's still the default, meaning one thing that'll have to be fixed before it's usable. Though if it wasn't the default, it would be as effective as Windows Media Center for replacing the DVR.

You are seeing things through the tunnel vision of the old way. I suppose you also thought the new start menu was horrible with XP and set it back to classic? Microsoft isn't stupid. If you've used this interface and can get outside of how you are comfortable and start actually looking at what the design is and where it's going, it makes a lot of sense.

It's the future. Dinosaurs will die.

Who told you Microsoft isn't stupid?

What about this company makes you think they are stupid? They've sold literally billions of licenses of software over the last 30 years. They entered console gaming in a tight market that had no room for anyone and took it over. With a bounty on their head for 15 years, they are still the king when it comes to OS and their software is run by all systems worldwide.

You may think you know everything, but this company can put their money where their mouth is. Those that call them stupid really just amplify their own stupidity.

They're not stupid, but they do have a history of throwing spaghetti at the wall to see if it sticks, vs. a more conscientious approach. That, and their exits are hardly graceful. It's either forced compliance, or complete abandonment.

Incidentally, no, I actually liked XP's changes. I'm not against change -- in fact, I think it's necessary. But not for change's sake, as is often the case with moving icons around in Control Panel, or using more context links on the left side of a window rather than plain, direct access. That's pointless and irritating. Sure, I can learn where it is, but now I have to remember the six ways to get to it when I walk someone through it over the phone. That's not good change. New is only better if it serves a purpose.

I see plenty of room in business for tablets and mobile devices. Not as a complete replacement though. At least not yet. Those technologies need to root themselves into our workflows before we can up and toss out the "old way". Designers are still figuring out how to leverage this new method of device/human interaction. We need bigger surfaces and more tactile response, and a completely different presentation. You can't just compile in a good touch interface.

There's a tool for every job. The mouse and keyboard aren't it for all tasks, but that's exactly what I'm on about here. One size does not fit all. It may sound alluring to have a single, unified platform that will run anything, but reality does not work that way. It's not ergonomic, intuitive, or efficient.

Give the touch UI time to grow and mature ON ITS OWN, then we'll talk about replacing "legacy" tools with it. Microsoft seems to be so used to being late to the party, that this time they're not hearing the community cry "too soon!" Fit the technology to the need.

So yes, Microsoft has a complete portfolio in the business market segment, and this has been largely unchallenged. That does not imply they're infallible. It just means they'll be able to crash and burn longer than a newcomer could. Resting on their laurels and making unwise decisions will not help their longevity -- monopoly or not.

> "What about this company makes you think they are stupid?
> They've sold literally billions of licenses of software over the last
> 30 years."

You seem to have this oh-so-cute vision of Microsoft, as though they're infallible and incapable of making mistakes. You seem to also confuse concepts very easily. For instance, you keep saying "Microsoft isn't stupid". True enough, because Microsoft is a large corporation, and therefore cannot be classified as "stupid". However, those working WITHIN that large corporation certainly ARE stupid, especially if they believe that Windows 8 (in its current form) will in any way be some kind of success story.

Microsoft isn't stupid, but some of its employees (both past and present) have a clear history of making horrendous business decisions. Your constant reference to dinosaurs only shows one thing -- that you're young and ignorant, and have no idea how the world works. You think that just because YOU like the new interface and aren't bothered by it, then nobody else should have any reason to complain either, right? Yeah...Microsoft isn't stupid, but people are.

If you want to keep banging the "Microsoft isn't stupid" drum, go ahead and tell it to brilliant minds responsible for bringing us Windows Millennium edition and Windows Vista. I realize that in all likelihood, you were still crapping in diapers when Windows Me was released, but rest assured, it was an epic failure, requiring XP to make up for the mess. In the same way, Vista was an equally-epic failure, requiring Windows 7 to make up for it.

Take comfort in the fact that Windows 8 WILL, in fact, be an epic failure, requiring Windows 9 to fix it.

"our money where their mouth is"

I used ME for several years on a machine the originally had 95 then upgraded to 98 and had less problems. I found the biggest problem was running IE 3 or 4 would crash 98 or ME, but Netscape would not. ME was released along side Server 2000, more as the workstation version similar to NT 3.5x or 4 having Server and Workstation versions, since the NT/9x line was not merged yet as XP did in 2002. Vista and 7 were more of a massive service pack like 95 and 98 were and version numbers seem to show this. 9x were version 4, XP was version 5, and Vista/7 are version 6, but sometimes Microsoft realized that a new name was needed instead of another service pack.

Microsoft has suggested that under Windows 8, Metro-Based apps will run under Hyper-V on Intel-based systems and natively on ARM-based systems. This suggests users will have a choice. I expect that Metro-based apps will not be as feature-rich as their desk-top-based cousins. For instance, I expect MS Office "Metro Edition" will be file compatible but will not offer anything but basic functionality for reviewing and editing files created on the desktop. On the desktop, I expect Windows 8 to look just like Windows 7 with non-Metro applications.

We will see when the public beta comes out early next year.

Admittedly a pre-beta release but I tried it out on my iMac (in a VM so could be the source of the problems). Anyways using a mouse and keyboard after installing the Virtual Box addins.
Horrible, plane horrible. Half the stuff I clicked on didn't open. "Swiping" the tiles left and right was painful, reminded me of trying to move around a map quickly in one of the old command and conquer games and at the same time trying to select units. You know how you used to get everyone but the 3 others you wanted, and when you tried again nothing got selected, or the ones you managed to select though you wanted them to move and ended up doing a march of death through the enemy base? Yeah that painful.
They need to bring back the true desktop mode for "normal" users. I understand that a reg-hack will get rid of the back to tiles start menu but out of the box? The system doesn't seem to detect that you don't have a touch enabled system so would probably want a keyboard/mice centric way of interacting at startup,not after going through a painful cludge of "touch like" mouse movements.

It was meant to show direction that Microsoft is headed with development. The main point being Metro styled apps need to be developed by developers. They did not include all the functionality of the start screen, which after reading the blog is quite a bit. The start screen is kind of a merger of the Start Menu, the taskbar, and the desktop. Once they iron out the transition of clicking on the start button, and increase the size of icons for desktop programs, it will make sense.

I had some issues loading certain apps until I installed silverlight I believe. I don't recall the exact issue, but my first impression was that the apps were just links to show the look and feel and then I installed a single peice of software and it all started working.

The interface issue will be addressed. I'm positive that they don't think that the mouse based interface is adequate. This was more to show developers direction and that you could have a touch based full fledge OS and to start developing for it because it's coming soon.

Where's Conan?

You were missed dearly.

5. Pulse Audio - the two little words is why I dropped Mandriva years ago, I used to pay for power pack because I believed in Mandriva and their product, but pulse audio wrecked it for me.

6. Web Browsers - Amen - I use Chrome almost exclusively now, which is funny because I was an IE user a year and a half ago. It's getting better, but having three web browsers because each handles certain things better than the former is ridiculous.

11. Android - Seriously Google needs to have more control over update release. This three tier system Google to OEM to Carrier for any update, even security updates is just a bad idea and turns $500 devices into throw away tech. In comparison, I just bought a new laptop for $780 and I don't expect to be purchasing a new one for a few years.

12. ThinApp - VMware, give portable apps back to the masses, please. VMware Workstation is great, but sandboxed apps is better still, better yet, give us a VMware OS that uses ThinApps to install applications. ESX and ESXi is a great idea, implement something like that on the workstation level.

13. Laptops - specifically touch-pads on laptops. I don't know what the solution is, but I have big hands, and I am constantly having to re-position my cursor because I accidentally brushed my thumb against it, and now they are getting BIGGER to accommodate Multi-Touch. My new Laptop has a touch pad the side of my HTC Sensation's screen, that is about 4.3inch corner to corner. I like the functionality and Samsung was nice enough to put in a function that temporarily disables the pad, but I still think there could be a better way

The list could go on, but you get the general idea. I think we have some exciting years ahead of us, regarding technological breakthroughs, and I can't wait. I also can't afford to try and keep up with the changes, especially in cases where tech has obsolescence built in. Personally, I blame Open Source. I think OS is great, but I think the smart phone industry is a shining example on why Linux hasn't gone main stream. With so many hobbyists advancing technology, it's hard for the hardware industry to keep up. If there were across the board "standards" for Linux, then maybe it could go mainstream, but then we'd lose innovation. It's a double edge sword.

As a parting thought, technology, by its very nature, is easily broken. It's why most every piece of tech hardware comes with sturdy packing. So you can box it up and send it back for a repair or replacement. You don't see fancy packing for Number 2 pencils, because they just work The High-speed Internet is the worst/best thing that could have happened to the software industry, without it companies would release a more polished product, but then we'd also be waiting for the next version to hit the store shelves before we could fix bugs. Anyone old enough to remember DOS 6.2 and 6.22?

Davbran, great comment/mini-post. Right there with you on all of the above including No. 2 pencils AND DOS. My first PC was a Tandy TRS-80 on which is used BASIC to generate printed reports as in:

10 lprint "This is the first sentence."
20 lprint "This is the second sentence."

At least you could count on it to work.

Except when you tried to save that code to the tape-drive (before floppies)

Man, you musta had a cool system...I built up my typing skills by re-typing in the program each time I turned on the trs-80 coco. I also went through 3 TVs real quick with this as the RF box was not very well insulated and would fry the TV receivers...lol

If they're like the Commodore 64 & VIC-20s (or my old Colecovision Adam), they were drives that used audio cassettes instead of floppies.

Or until you get an "out of memory" error when you use up all 64k of RAM!

That BASIC was a port of the first product from a couple of guys named Bill and Paul. They called their new company... Micro-Soft!

Just turn of "tapping" on your laptop touch pad and your problem will go away. It's in the mouse driver properties in Control Panel, or you might just be able to turn it off in the icon in the notification area near your clock.

thanks

That's a great idea, I never use that feature anyway.

The touch pad doesn't need to be smaller, it needs to be repositioned. It needs to be centered over the letter "B" on keyboard. Many are offset and the causes the problem. Earlier this year I returned what was otherwise a very nice HP laptop for just that reason.

@ Al_nyc

You have a switch on HP laptops that turns off the touchpad, usually at the top edge of the pad.

If you had looked, you could have used that and kept that "otherwise a very nice HP laptop." Mine has been turned off from the first day as I'd rather use a mouse; It is a very rare occasion when I have to use the pad.

I was looking at HPs last year, but they slightly bipolar state over the summer scared me off. It's nice to know about that feature though.

Totally agree. Continually typing away and wondering where the insertion point has disappeared to to find I'm inserting test at the top of the page.
Then with my new laptop I was baffled as to why my browser window kept zooming in and out- to discover that multi-touch was the problem. The point is, having discovered multi-touch on the laptop I'm genuinely baffled what earthly use it could be if you did find a use for it; it's so fiddly and imprecise I can only consign it to the "pointless gimmick" bin.

@ viggenboy

I have never seen a multitouch device except on ads or on tv (High-tech shows such as CSI, NCIS, Bones, etc) and they always use that on the screens themselves, which is where multitouch belongs, and nowhere else. So yes I would agree with you that a multitouch-enabled touchpad would be more of a nuisance than anything unless it were beside the computer (USB-connected) and at least of a decent size, such as 8 1/2 x 11. (I don't suppose that an individual user would be able to afford the touch tables they use on those shows, and we all know that there are wizards behind the scenes who do the actual computer work.)

I have to say this is the first time I have used one, though I had seen it advertised. My last laptop lasted me 6 or 7 years, so I am flying really fancy now. Pinch zooming is nice, and gesture swiping is nice as well. The only trouble I have with gesture scrolling, is I have been edge scrolling for years. To me this is an "It a broke" feature.

I agree about laptop touch-pads. I have never used one, they are so clumsy and, as you said, the slightest incidental contact messes up the cursor position. That's why I use a mouse and turn off the touch-pad completely.

I have never had a problem with Notebook touch pads and mouse both enabled (IBM, ACER, HP, ASUS) all have worked as expected.

If I am wanting a quick session I do NOT plug in the Mouse and use the touch pad.

If want to type a long document where I will be editing I plug in the mouse and use that.

I would love to have a simple switch that turns off the touchpad when a mouse is present and turns it back on otherwise.

The point about the web browsers is mostly a result of each vendor trying to attract customers based on what they think is wanted and a lack of adherence to standards.

I had an Acer Aspire 5200 notebook a little while back, and it came with a software extension that automatically disabled the pad when a mouse was coneected. I suspect most (if not all) laptops come with the same extension. Also, the same notebook I had had a button next to the power button that would allow you to manually disable the pad.