Discussion on:

Tablets: What Amazon and Apple know that all the CES tablet peddlers are still missing

I have an ipad and an asus transformer. I regular do video calls to my friends on gtalk , i write emails every morning on my way to work on the train and then disconnect the keyboard and read a book using the kindle app. My ipad just sits there because its frustrating for me to us it. I use it only when my transformer runs out of battery ( which takes almost 14 hours with the keypad.) i often take my tablet and leave my laptop at home, i hook it up to Tvs with watch movies or videos on you tube ( partially because their isnt a good airplay like app for android). The last hotel i went to had a HDMI tv but no appletv so my transformer connected no problem. I streamed netflix from my tablet to.

But i am not the target market for tablets i guess, i am a technology geek.

Although I do not own a ipad, I do use all the features of the Transformer to some extent. As to not hooking up my tablet to an HDTV, that is a rediculous statement unless you have a HTPC setup.
I also video chat with my daughter and grandson otten. I believve Jason is war off base. However, I do believe that Apple and Amazon have much better promotional capabilities than most Android Tablet Producers

I think it's ridiculous to think that Samsung, LG, Sony, etc. do not have the "promotional" abilities. The marketing argument is tired. And while ASUS does not advertise I'm sure the billion dollar company could find a couple of bucks to put together a commercial. What ASUS doesn't have is content - and that's what the article is about.

"The problem with Android tablets isn???t a time or maturity issue. It???s that Google and all of its hardware partners are playing the wrong game and they haven???t realized it yet."

You have to be kidding right?
I mean seriously?????
Connecting ports are a big issue when it comes to tablets... If I don't see atleast a USB port, that sucker isn't comming out of the store.
and YOU can quote me on that "EVERY WORD" Because IPAD'S hard space is a joke.
with connecting ports it is easier to retreive info from the device or to put info on it. Sure, many people do not need or want it connected to their High-end 50" Flat Screen TV... but the ports weren't necessarily intended for constant direct connection to other devices, yet if that is what the buyer wants, then bonus for them. Some of us love to personally store some of our information from our handheld devices to some memory cards for safe keeping, rather than having it stored on some server out in the cloud which is not necessarily in our complete control.
transfering info to SD cards, via USB, or to other devices, is a BIG bonus!
One that I see, Jason has not come to understand yet.

Yes i use a lot of "service" type stuff but all of it i use Google supports plus I get to have all the hardware and the flexibly that ipad and amazon does not have (i even have my kindle apps as well)

How much will you sell the Ipad for? I need to get one for my dad.

Please explain your frustration. What, exactly, makes it frustrating to use compared to your ASUS Transformer? I'm not going to deny whether you have either one, but your argument becomes quite lame when all you can say is, "It's frustrating to use." Oddly, people far less tech savvy than you find the iPad and iPhone very easy to use. I even watched a 5-year-old girl who'd never touched a computer before learn how to draw, erase and even clear the screen on an iPad in moments just by watching her aunt do it for her.

No, I don't believe the iPad is frustrating to use. I believe you're simply trying to make a hollow excuse for talking against it.

...I guess the keyboard emulation could be a source of frustration.
I don't know if that amounts to "using it wrong", though

He travels with his Transformer and he hooks it up to TV's because you can do that easier with his Transformer and not with an iPad unless Airplay is present.
I agree that this limitation could be frustrating.

Same thing here. The only reason I would ever buy a new one is if some how they made it possible to read an e-book without the back-lite on it kills me. But still to have the e-book reader and the tablet with ways less then my laptop and the battery life of each lasts the hole day. The main reason I bought the tablet is the video chat, and hdmi hook-up.

If you are talking about a droid...see if they have Aldiko for the tablets (they have it for the phones, so i would assume they have it for the tablets)...it gives you an option to go to a black background with white lettering, which is much easier to read in darker environments.

Yes you give a great suggestion using black with white letters works. My personal favorite is black with green. That is what I use on my command line interfaces. I just want a tablet that you can use with or with out a back-lite, have hdmi, usb ports, camera with mic for video chat and a 64gig ssd or a 1.5tb hdd. If your going to put a spinner in it make it big one or not at all.

Have you reviewed the Nook Tablet and if so, how do you feel about it?

I think it's actually a nicer tablet than the Kindle Fire, but Amazon's services are stronger.

I think Nook is much stronger product than the Fire. It is true that it does not have full ecosystem, but it is much better user experience than Fire. The first time I started Fire, I had to shut it down ... very ugly. However, I do believe that Amazon will fix this eventually.

explain "very ugly" or you some technocrat that gets off challenging

It took me about 30 minutes after I got a Nook to root it and get the Amazon services working (installed the Kindle app and Amazon Video App). Now I one ereader that works with Amazon and BN and I can install any other apps I need. Netflix also works fine on it as well. Once rooted (which is very easy now) you have full access to the google market apps, which is nice because the BN store is fairly limited and apps that are free on google market are $3-4 on tje BN market.

Can you explain "root it" I have a Nook Tablet and would love to install the Kindle app and the Amazon Video App.
Thanks

It means that the system can be modified in any way the hardware will support.
It probably voids warranty, though. And can cut you off from system updates, so that you have to do them manually. If updates do work, they may cause the device to become unrooted. There have been several articles about it on TR, so maybe a nice editor will provide a stack of link *hint*.
Otherwise, try putting the search terms root + nook site:www.techrepublic.com into a google prompt... it's better than the on-site search feature.

Thank you, I did a search and found the directions to do it. My nook is brand new so I think I might wait a bit before I mess with it. But I will be doing it.

Plus Amazon offers tons more 'affordable' books. B&N only use known publishers and therefore their books are quite expensive.

The Nook Tablet doesn't have the same range of online services baked in; the Nook Store doesn't offer the range of merchandise that Amazon does, B&N's app store doesn't offer as many apps as Amazon's store, and Netflix for movies is a separate account and login. But you get more storage than the Kindle Fire (and a card slot for more) for your extra $50. It's worth considering if those extras are important or if you already own a Nook and not a Kindle.

As noted, there's no card slot. I understand the idea is to do most of one's media via the cloud, but it's still the single drawback, especially when they keep pressing you to add apps. It's a nuisance having to constantly delete files just to be sure you don't run out of space.

Otherwise, I love my Fire, and my husband has replaced both his old Macbook and a netbook in favor because it does everything he needs it to do, and what it doesn't his iPhone does.

As for Nook, my instinct tells me Barnes & Noble may be deliberately preventing certain kinds of apps from appearing in their store because they don't want competition. In other words, if they offer some kind of merchandise or service, you won't see any competing apps available. The problem is, as has been noted, they lack the infrastructure to support that kind of restriction. So, I mainly use my Color for games and reading.

The wonderful thing about the Kindle Fire is that I can can buy one and still have money left over for one of the $250 ICS equipped Android 7" tablets that are starting to come out, and still have paid LESS than the price of a single, oversized and way too heavy iPad.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and the author is giving us his. I happen to think that he's probably wrong. But time will tell.

Xoom tablet by Motorola allows me to use SD sticks thereby having the ability to 320GB of data in only 10 SDMicro sticks. And we know how small those suckers are, don't we. What I am waiting for are swappable batteries for the tablets. When on a long bike trek far from electric outlets, these would be a major boon.

ICS has barely poked its head out of the sand, so Jason you should wait until ICS is fully implemented on Android tablets and take another look.

You just need to make a charger that taps the horsepower you provide while biking.

Chargers and handlebar mounts are already available for cyclists. Not sure if they will charge the iPad, but they certainly work for smartphones, dedicated GPS devices and iPods. Biologic Reecharge works with hub dynamos (found on some commuter bikes or available as an upgrade). There are detailed DIY options as well.

Peter White Cycles has a wide array of the fittings, cables, and all htat stuff needed to plug all that electronic stuff into bicycle generators, battery packs, etc., to charge them or power them while on the go. He also sells the dynamo's themselves and builds wheels for bikes out of them so you don't have to sort out all the cats and dogs... and have him spec and provide your headlights and taillights at the same time.

I use an iPhone regularly. I've handled an iPad and it's "neat" but the size makes it awkward to have around. I use a laptop for remote work and network systems troubleshooting. I also have an HP Slate. It's a nice little tablet with Win7 on it. Useable - but mostly it sits. I can use it for network device work but the laptop is faster and easier on the command line. An office mate came in with a Kindle Fire. I played with it for 5 minutes and immediately saw it as good for what it does. Some web use and content use. It's light and easy to pocket. The screen is big enough for my older eyes to use if I left my reading glasses somewhere. It's got a USB port and does WiFi - that's plenty. We have 3G locally and most iPhone apps work like crap (or don't) if WiFi isn't handy anyway. It'll hold enough to keep you occupied and Amazon can store the rest. Want it. If they had more of my hot rod/drag race type mags available, I'd already own one. I don't need Yet Another PC.

Just a friendly heads up. I use Firefox as my browser, but had to use IE9 in order to post here since the Add Your Opinion button does NOTHING in Firefox 8.x

It's an old problem and a setting in Firefox from memory. Basically a fix for you to implement not TR. Use a search engine to find it.
Firefox works fine for me.

I laughed at the folks buying these things, but when I got into playing with IPad and Fire, I was impressed by the simple integration and ease of use. When the Fire came along at $200, it made me notice that Amazon was presenting an amazing array of services and media that made my Amazon Prime account, which I had used to save on shipping in the past, an incredible deal. So much so that the two factors I dislike about the Fire: the weight and the incredibly glossy, bright screen made me look at the other Kindle offerings. Yesterday I bought my second Kindle: a Touch 3g. The two of these devices will make the spring and summer quite a bit better than in the past, both indoors and out. The services are everything right now, and I have always been one of the hardware geeks that said I need more power and features. This article was exactly right: KISS for everyone.

Yes! Finally an editor who gets it! Computers aren't about the operating system or hardware, but about the APPS THAT ALLOW YOU TO GET THINGS DONE!!!

Focus on the USE of the tool, and not just how many fancy Swiss-army-knife attachments come with it!

I love my Kindle Fire not because of any bell or whistle, but because it is my "Amazon delivery system." When third party hardware manufacturers start making higher-end Amazon delivery systems, then I will be interested in upgrading.

You trying to hard to come up with a truly logical explainantion. You need to revist "Occam's Razor" here.

The reason that the iPad has been such a huge success has been the "sheeple effect". Steve Jobs did a brilliant job of making the iPad the "cool" choice. The "service ecosystem" does make some logical sense, however, the vast majority of ipad purchases were by people who had little or no clue what they would use them for, and, fact is, the Android tablets can easily provide the same (Google has numerous integrated functions which work nice on tablets, and Amazon does as well. I use both sets of services on my Xoom tablet much more and much more easily that do the dozens of Ipad owners I know). the typical Ipad user seems to use their tablets mostly for reading email, and web surfing (well, the number one use of the iPad 2 has clearly been to serve as a status marker, to be seen using one in public), followed by playing some games and/or watching videos.

I, like hte other nadroid tablet users I know, use our tablets to do a miriad of work-related and persanal functions we once did with less portable notebooks.

The Android tablets, aimed at serious users with serious features/functionality are actually a very good fit. The real problem has been a lack of such serious users.

The typical status-seeking pretend-techno-wannabe will still be picking the iPad over any Android tablet, end of story.

the reason the Kindle Fire has/will continue to be sucessful is that it too has come to be seen as a "hip" device. The same Amazon-based functionality is readily available via apps on all other Android devices, and the fire is otherwise a weak contender - but it has that "cool factor" going for it.

Ask the owners of either ipads or Fires about the integration of their service ecosystems, and you'll be getting 90%+ blank stares.

You know what your talking about, and it makes logical sense to you. But, they didn't employ such thinking when they made their purchase choices - they just considered what their freinds, family, peers, and the rest of the world thought was coolest.

You are falling victim to one of the greatest pitfalls with "Occam's Razor" in assuming that the explanation that you have is the simplest, while also explaining it all. It is succinctly: "Plurality must never be posited without necessity."

Your explanation ignores the fact that Android isn't doing well. Even among people who are technically proficient and have a distaste for Apples expensive, closed door hardware. I work in an IT department, and while everyone has Android phones, almost to a person, almost no one has an Android tablet. Instead they have iPad's.

The explanation that works right now to explain the success of the Fire and the iPad are that people don't like complicated. They like simple, they just want it to work. Services, hardware, etc.This explanation includes more of the datum than your simple Vanity explanation.

No more using Occam's razor to make a singular argument that doesn't take into account all the data.

In your reply, you've also failed to take into account Occam's Razor. You suggest this person is trying to understand and failing due to lack of data. The more simple explanation is that they're picking the argument that makes them feel good about themselves. (Just being flippant, I agree with you).

Ah Yes, good old Occam's Razor, just about the most over-used tool in the toolbelt of those who think they're intellectual or scientific. In this case, it's almost amusing: with the iPad (and now the Fire) many 'scientific' or 'techie' types are failing prey to the kind of thinking they abhor in others: "I don't understand how this is happening, so it must be (marketing) magic".

I say 'almost amusing' because an unfortunate number of those subscribing to the silly 'sheep' fallacy (if Apple has magic powers to make things cool, why aren't we all using Apple TV?) are those designing, programming, and advertising Android tablets.

If they actually paused to try to figure out why their products weren't doing well, they might make more successful products. Instead, you hear 'I and people who are just like me love it, I don't understand the problem!'

Most people buying a tablet don't want to do 'a myriad' of tasks that would otherwise need a notebook computer. The evidence of this is rather overwhelming at this point. Chalking the whole thing up to not being one of the 'cool kids' is rather childish and not at all constructive.

What's most arrogant is the idea that the fact that most people just want to use their tablets for 'email, games, and video' instead of 'serious' work is a failure of the *user* instead of a failure of the *product*. "This is awesome, you're just using it wrong" has been a tired refrain for many, many failed tech projects over the years.

The iPad was successful because it had long battery life and could do everything a smart phone could on a bigger screen. Still, most people I know don't have one because they can't justify the expense for something that doesn't do anything that they can't already do on another device they own. So disposable income helps, and not caring a lot about the technology behind it helps too.

The Kindle Fire was successful because it brings similar advantages to people who refuse to spend $500. Now people who wouldn't spend that money on a "toy" can get their toy for $200 instead.

Among people who are technically proficient that I know the iPad is pretty much a failure. Some of them might get it for their spouse, but they're not really interested in it for themselves. Of course, most of them don't have an Android tablet either. More have an Android tablet than an iPad though.

I have had both and am technically a techie (relatively speaking). I got the ipad because GarageBand offers things not available elsewhere. I have a proper studio but the ipad now serves as a ketch book for song writing. I used to fight in the Android corner but having used both I definitely felt the user experience of the ipad for basic things such as email, browsing and Facebook was slicker, whereas the Galaxy would often be slightly jerky and frustrating at ties when it came to text input... I do love the Galaxy, but I think it's worth understanding what it is about the ipad is the experience of using it rather than what it can potentially do, or not, do in comparison with the Galaxy.

Never postulate a complexity when a simplicity will do. The trick is in finding that simplicity in the world of complexity and instant interaction with millions...

"Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler" - Albert Einstein
(One of my all time favorite quotes)

It is human nature to complicate the simplest thing.