Discussion on:

KDE 4.8 minor tweaks, major improvement

"Never liked KDE, and this isn't changing my mind."

Do you think you can run it on a machine with 22MB of RAM? I did just that recently with a machine here that runs Fluxbox. My RAM modules flaked out and it still got me to my desktop. So I ran htop to see what the problem was. I thought it was acting a little sluggishly ...

That machine is a dedicated CNC controller so I don't need all kinds of flashy whiz bang junk going on with it. Ruins my latency scores for doing real time applications. That box also boots up in 16 seconds, which isn't bad for a 1 GHz P3. 49 total processes in X Window.

I've been grumblin' around trying to figure out how to get a hardware upgrade out of my "no budget" for a couple of months now and haven't been happy with my Kubuntu performance since the KDE 4.x upgrade. Admittedly I'm running a Dual-core 1.2GHz system that is maxed at 2GB RAM but faster performance is always a fantasy, eh? Almost got pushed over the edge to trying to LXDE.

We'll have to see now.

Smiley

I did it. Had to enable backports which I wasn't willing to do before, a bit scary, that. KDE4.8 is a very noticeable improvement in speed on old hardware. I've got two workstations that are 64bit, though just barely. My home office system.
http://www.pmaco.net/?q=smiley-newberg-carlton
And another at the Newberg Downtown Coalition's offices is powered by a Pentium-D which is possibly Intel's first 64bit offering in a desktop processor. KDE4.8 upgrade has slaked my desire for a hardware upgrade for another year.

You can list me in the "happy camper" category now.

Smiley

Nothing in the screen shots makes me anxious to try KDE 4.8. I've pretty much left Linux because I live in the browser and Flash and video performance wasn't up to par in Unity and Gnome. Aesthetics matter. The Linxu community seems to have a hard time understanding or accepting this. KDE 4.8 still looks like it is stuck in the last decade. There isn't much to convince me to take the time to give Linux another go. Maybe a video would be better.

Flash performance not being up to par is the result of Adobe not providing any hardware acceleration for Linux Flash (although I imagine they think we should be grateful that Linux Flash exists at all).

KDE's aesthetics are pretty similar to those of Windows 7. If there is another GUI that looks more "up to date" you might want to mention what it is.

Of course this is coming from someone who tends a bit toward minimalist desktops and uses Xfce, Fluxbox, IceWM, and/or Openbox (with some forays into Enlightenment 17). I'm not that concerned with the "up to date" look, but I don't see where it's missing in KDE.

I understand from where the performance issues stem. I was just stating the reasons for my reluctance to come back to Linux as my mainstay OS.

KDE's similarities to Windows 7's aesthetics end at transparent objects. There is little cohesiveness in KDE. I see windows with menus, others without. Logos are where you'd expect to find hide/restore/close buttons. Some have title bars, others do not. In the screenshots in the artical, all of the windows have a gradient background while Firefox is flat. Also, there are these big, fat icons at the bottom of the screen, while the scroll bars are disproportionately skinny. Some scroll bars are flat while others are touched by the gradient.

After listing and rereading these criticisms, I realized you're probably going to consider them nitpicking and superficial, which is exactly my point: the Linux community doesn't care about aesthetics. It firmly believes in its noble cause above all else: freedom. And this freedom shows in the screenshots of heterogeneous application designs. That's fine with me. I'm just putting it out there why I won't be trying KDE based on what I'm seeing. I don't see anything that is worth my time and which will enhance my overall user experience.

Firefox normally uses GTK and KDE uses QT libraries. So KDE does not always control Firefox. In order to do that you often need to edit your GTK theme. Or you could build Firefox against QT. You see in Linux you are not locked into one supplier. But then the onus of making the correct choice is on you.

What the Linux community doesn't care about is ignorant users. So make some kind of an effort and educate yourself! Freedom isn't free. Or you can just keep sucking on whatever gets shoved down your throat.

Thank you for the information. I'm sure to take it to heart and use it everyday. Oh, wait. No, I won't, because I want to USE my computer, not constantly tweak it.

I could build x against y, indeed. Why not just learn programming, start coding applications from scratch and start solving all my Linux problems myself while I'm at it? I HAVE taken the time to educate myself on several issues just to get Linux running on various machines. Sometimes I was successful, others not so much. I've wasted hours, searching countless forums and articles, on seemingly simple problems with no straight-forward answers. That is not my idea of freedom-- being held hostage by the anarcho-communist structure of Linux. I'll exercise my freedom of choice and choose something that solves my problems sooner rather than later. If the Linux community can't tolerate ignorant users, then I'll stay blissful along with millions of others, thanks.

Just so you know your statement, "I want to USE my computer, not constantly tweak it." flies in the face of the very definition of what a modern computer is. A general purpose, reprogrammable, data processing device. What that means in a nutshell is computers are deliberately designed with the ability to be reconfigured for a variety of tasks. There were earlier computers that were not like this. They were designed and built special purpose for specific tasks. Virtually all computers in existence today are of the modern variety.

Or did you mean you wanted to quit abusing methamphetamine? A noble gesture but possibly the wrong forum to address that issue.

In any event it is clear to me that you are not Linux material. You haven't the will, and quite possibly the wherewithal to run Linux. Maybe if you mature, and accept some modicum of personal responsibility you will attain a level of proficiency where you may begin to use Linux.

Freedom isn't for everyone. Liberty is only a right if hard fought for through constant vigilance and supreme effort. For the land of the free, and the home, of the, brave ... Play ball! Thank you. Good night. Signing off.

Don't call us, we'll call you!

I'm not mature enough to use Linux and free myself. You're right. I'll stick with being shackled to my toy computer and let you spend the extra time you'll save from the extreme performance of KDE 4.8 building x against y to the nth power to your heart's content. Perhaps you can clean your monocle and sip your wine while you're dining in the exclusive Linux Country Club as well. To each his own.

Replying to:

"I'm not mature enough to use Linux and free myself. You're right. I'll stick with being shackled to my toy computer and let you spend the extra time you'll save from the extreme performance of KDE 4.8 building x against y to the nth power to your heart's content. Perhaps you can clean your monocle and sip your wine while you're dining in the exclusive Linux Country Club as well. To each his own."

I'm always right.

I see one thing Microsoft has taught you well was how to try to spread FUD.

What extra time? Just because some things can be done in Linux in no way obligates you to doing them. In the 17 years I have run Linux I have *HAD* to perform only two mandatory maintenance tasks. Everything else I have ever done has always been at my own discretion. because I can!

Fair chance you are spending more time trying to keep your toy OS running than I am working with Linux. Why Linux could use the Energizer Bunny as its mascot but EverReady might take exception to that. Because Linux just keeps going, and going, and going ...

I setup Linux on one system and ran it for over 8 years straight until the capacitors on the motherboard gave out, popped the HDD out of it, put it into another machine and it still ran! Try doing that with your toy OS. I doubt you'd get too far.

If Ron Popeil made an OS it'd be Linux. Just set it, and forget it! Only trouble there is Adam hasn't quite figured out how to set it up yet. For me taking the trouble to learn has paid me dividends over the years.

We sip sherry at the country club! Except for Linus, he chugs craft beer. Linux is user friendly, it is just choosy about who its friends are. Ask yourself why you are not worthy.

How can you say "browser and flash" and "performance" in the same breath? In my experience, when it comes to browser based applications and performance it's just not there, regardless of the OS or UI. I hate them and most end users I talk to do too. If that is what the next decade holds, then I'll stick with the last one thank you!

"Sexy"? I'm way more concerned with function and performance than appearance. Sexy does not contribute to getting the job done. It's just a marketing hook. Never mind that your sword broke the first time you crossed steel with the enemy and ended up as fertilizer for the flowers, your sword was way fancier than his.

Everyone here knows that style over substance is the law of the land! Why can't you just be shallow and superficial like the rest of us are? Is that a new phone you have? Oh! Oh! Oh!

I can say it because it matters. I guess you and your circle have never used Chrome on Windows. Flash and web apps perform quite well with this combination, in my experience. If your experience is limited to Linux, I can understand your point of view.

I agree with you: looks are no substitute for functionality. This is what explains celebrity marriages and subsequent divorces, but doesn't keep them from happening. Windows and OSX are the supermodels with everything at their disposal to help them look good and go fast in a fast-paced world, while Linux is the homely dweeb who can get things done behind the scenes, but isn't appreciated because he only wears t-shirts with inside jokes written on them and drives a hatchback.

In general, people are attracted to and appreciate beauty. Once Linux makes it to Level: Ambercrombie & Fitch, I'll be back.

If you're looking for sexy, Flash is the meth-addicted prostitute with infectious diseases.

From the photos, I didn't spot multiple desktops. I'm still on Ubuntu 10.04 LTS, for me the Gnome2 desktop included with 10.04 is perfect. I used to use KDE back in the day, but have been using Gnome for quite a while now. I HAVE to have at least four desktops ...

Your 4 heads and 8 arms? I don't know about some of you crack babies today, really I don't!

The Linux world seems to have devolved (the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics at work, no doubt), into a pattern of change for change sake and that, perhaps, has soured me towards experiencing any excitement about this latest shiny thing to appear on the Linux scene. I have an extra Dell Optiplex GX 280 that contains a Nvidia card, a big hard drive and a lot of RAM. It has Mageia 1 on it right now, but I never use it for anything serious, so, that might be a good platform for an experimental installation of KDE 4.8. From viewing the screen shots though, I don't think I'm going to be very impressed.

Are the KDE developers losing their sight? The icons and such are all huge! they also have sort-of a creepy look to me. I've never liked the look of the icon themes adopted for KDE4.

Why is it that desktop developers obsess about "buzz phrases"? "New Activity!" Com'on. I write an article, compose a poem, code an assembly language subroutine, assemble a collage. None of which is particularly active, unless you're a finger. No, I'm becoming less and less impressed by superficiality. If 4.8 is truly faster than it's predecessors, that would be good for it's users who, no doubt, are doing nothing serious with their computers except waiting with baited breath for KDE 5!

I personally have given-up on the Gnomes (since 3) and KDEs (since 4). My simple, unobtrusive, dual-head, Xfce-4.6.2 desktop serves me quite well. I have plenty of room to work. I use the familiar & functional "eye-candy" of Cairo-Dock, Compiz, and Screenlets. Plus, and I don't have to suffer the distractions of new looks with every major release. My desktop has looked (and worked) essentially the same since Fedora 7 was initially released.

So, having said all that, I think I'll get back to herding my dinosaurs and chiseling myself a new set of summer tires out of a nice block of North-Western granite. Later, I may code-up an assembly language subroutine to operate the latest switch I added to my HO train layout.

Want to trade for my 9600? The 9600 has perfect drivers and works perfect in Linux.

Windows 8 is going to "uglify to the max" all you ever knew about computers and software, nothing sexy there. Gnome has always been disjointed in that it is modular, therefore not totally consistent at all levels, Unity is just a PITA and any talk of flash is soon to be relegated to the archives as old junk because Adobe has finally yielded to the better standard, thanks to Steve Jobs flipping them the birdie, and chosen to cease its further development and ODM's will soon enough be providing better OSS support for their drivers, which can only make for vastly improved graphics at all levels.
With the negatives dealt with, KDE is about as slick, functional, feature rich and functional as any savvy user could ever need, and it is light years ahead of its closest cloners, Microsoft, who claim to innovate, but can only imitate. It's time to face the music, KDE is the most advanced Linux Desktop Environment and it will excel to far greater levels in the future, distancing itself further is it speeds ahead. I haven't seen gnome do this yet....
http://www.muktware.com/news/3248/first-kde-tablet-announced

I actually switched from gnome to KDE and I haven't looked back.

A simple setup with just X11 and the xmonad window manager works great for me. Why burden the system with all that overhead? For what?

Although KDE-Next will be happy to run on top of either XCB or Xlib, (or OSX or MS-Windows too, our highest-performance platform will consist of the Window Manager being Window Manager, Compositor, and Display Server in a single process. It will be able to translate X11 drawing primitives with abut the same efficiency as running X11 natively (i.e., almost no additional overhead), but the big payoff appears when the Client Applications are themselves running as Wayland- aware programs.

Qt Version 5, which will be out in just a few months, provides runtime "plugins" for the platform-level interfaces. To some extent, KWin (the Window manager/compositor) will take advantage of Wayland auto-magically. But, in order to achieve the highest possible performance, we will be doing some Wayland specific coding in KWin -- making it Wayland-aware when Wayland is available, and "downgrading" into the alternative XCB or XLIB code paths when we have to.

Modern video cards are smart, the X11 protocol (even with extensions such as "COMPOSITE") doesn't take full advantage of their capabilities.

That sounds promising, but it looks like there are no plans as yet to bring Wayland to FreeBSD.

Does this mean multiple monitors will finally work without all the hackery?

If I ever see xorg.conf and xrandr again, it'll be too soon. I've lost my taskbar on KDE more times than I care to count.