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Why not whack your CV / Resum?? on a webpage? Then you only require a browser to view the file, which means mobile phones, tablets, even internet TVs if you're that abstract.
... that works. That's why there's Monster, LinkedIn, Dice, HotJobs, etc.
When applying for a job, however, the employer is usually asking for you to come to them. They want something they can use within the context of their HR system.
When applying for a job, however, the employer is usually asking for you to come to them. They want something they can use within the context of their HR system.
Unless I miss something, converting a Word doc to a searchable PDF ins't that difficult. I always use a free PDF converter to convert a Word doc to a searchable PDF. Moreover, you can use OopenOffice Writer to create your resume with all the bells and whistles like MS Word (if you wish but not recommended per the author) and use the built-in PDF conversion feature. Copy and paste with PDF? What problem?
I meant to type "Searchable PDF and copy/paste" but the tiny keyboard of my netbook .... you got the picture.
... only if you think that your CV is targeted to other programmers. It seems you did not understand what the author wanted to convey: make your CV available and readable to the people who can get you a new job !
When I was a unix admin I thought that using TeX (ConTeXt in my case) was a good advertisement because it demonstrated that I could use the Unix toolset.
Unfortunately, all the jobs in Aus are gatekeepered by the disreputable scum of the head-hunting trade, who add nothing to the process but require you to deal with them anyway, and if they can't find you with a keyword search you will miss out.
I rolled.
Steve,
Unfortunately, all the jobs in Aus are gatekeepered by the disreputable scum of the head-hunting trade, who add nothing to the process but require you to deal with them anyway, and if they can't find you with a keyword search you will miss out.
I rolled.
Steve,
Some international companies and job search websites use both terms (i.e. "CV/resume").
Real experts use troff, or maybe Scribe.
But you don't post the CV in source code... compile it to something useful, like PDF.
But you don't post the CV in source code... compile it to something useful, like PDF.
It's a limited cross-section of programmers who will swat a fly with a nuclear weapon. The truth is that using LaTeX to format a programmer's resume is extreme overkill.
I maintain mine in Markdown syntax, and when given the choice I prefer to send it in plaintext Markdown syntax. When necessary, Markdown is easily translated to HTML, PDF, and other formats as well. The last thing I want to do is maintain it in a format that is not easily readable by the uninitiated, or that looks cluttered by line noise to them, when viewed as plain text.
"Keep It Simple, Stupid"
I maintain mine in Markdown syntax, and when given the choice I prefer to send it in plaintext Markdown syntax. When necessary, Markdown is easily translated to HTML, PDF, and other formats as well. The last thing I want to do is maintain it in a format that is not easily readable by the uninitiated, or that looks cluttered by line noise to them, when viewed as plain text.
"Keep It Simple, Stupid"
Unless you are sending your resume electronically it makes little or no difference which tools you used to compose it. I used LaTeX since I did not have licenses for Word. I printed it with my H-P Laser Printer. I don't think the finished product had any "signatures" that would reveal its origins. Certainly no one commented on its ancestry.
Printed only . . . ?
I take it this was not recent (and, as such, I'm not sure how it's relevant to this discussion).
I take it this was not recent (and, as such, I'm not sure how it's relevant to this discussion).
'Also, if a resume is formatted in one version of Microsoft Word, for example, you can???t be sure the person looking at your resume has the same version. Your formatting could be stripped out anyway.'
that means, using software from the market leader is not advisable?
that means, using software from the market leader is not advisable?
That means not using formatting features more fancy than basic fonts, tabs, and indents.
And even then, you're asking for trouble between Word versions...
And even then, you're asking for trouble between Word versions...
I can't say that I have ever seen a formatting difference between different Word versions. I don't normally use or see any real fancy (such as word art) formatting so maybe I am sheltered. Does anyone know of any examples that I could look at because I am really interested in seeing this for myself?
I have seen issues with Excel and Powerpoint, but never Word.
Bill
I have seen issues with Excel and Powerpoint, but never Word.
Bill
If you've never seen any problems, I guess either you're lucky or you don't pay attention enough to notice when simple formatting stuff might go slightly awry.
Of course, if you're really using so little of MS Word's functionality that nothing appears to change from one version to the next, I have to wonder why you're using it at all. Why won't a plain text editor work for you?
Of course, if you're really using so little of MS Word's functionality that nothing appears to change from one version to the next, I have to wonder why you're using it at all. Why won't a plain text editor work for you?
There were some changes between the older versions of Office & the old Office 97 version... just as there were changes between Office 97 & the later Office 2003 standards.
The last major formatting change I was aware of was with Office 2007 (i.e. the switch from ".doc" to ".docx"). However, since Microsoft has a free download for Office 2003 that lets it read the .docx format & convert it to Office 2003 format, I haven't really noticed any formatting change issues show up.
The last major formatting change I was aware of was with Office 2007 (i.e. the switch from ".doc" to ".docx"). However, since Microsoft has a free download for Office 2003 that lets it read the .docx format & convert it to Office 2003 format, I haven't really noticed any formatting change issues show up.
Yes there is a simple Office file conversion patch...But it is much easier to delete the resume than update an older copy of Word!
For some reason, HR flacks, recruiters, and even hiring managers (maybe especially -- I'm not sure) seem to have developed an ingrained cultural tradition of taking any excuse at all to throw away resumes, thus reducing the number of applicants to evaluate, even if that means throwing out the best candidates for the job. The last thing a would-be employee should be doing, in most cases, is giving people excuses to throw away their resumes.
1. The majority of the applications I submitted over the last 2-year period I spent looking for a job either specified they wanted the format in "TXT, DOC or PDF" formats (i.e. indirectly stating they wanted it pre-Office 2007, & no OpenOffice-type substitutes), or specifically said "text file, Office 2003, or Adobe PDF".
2. Since I have Office 2003 at home, unless someone is still using Office 2000 (or even Office 97) they'll have no trouble reading my resume.
2. Since I have Office 2003 at home, unless someone is still using Office 2000 (or even Office 97) they'll have no trouble reading my resume.
"that means, using software from the market leader is not advisable?"
As a matter of fact, yes -- at least when the "market leader" offers software that overcomplicates everything.
As a matter of fact, yes -- at least when the "market leader" offers software that overcomplicates everything.
The tools you use are not nearly as important as the skill with which you use them!
Do use a spelling checker. If the hiring manager gets the idea that you can't spell, and/or can't write a coherent paragraph, kiss that job goodbye!
Do use a spelling checker. If the hiring manager gets the idea that you can't spell, and/or can't write a coherent paragraph, kiss that job goodbye!
Really RTF? As a recruiter, I would have serious doubts about the professionalism of a candidate sending through a CV in RTF. It's an ugly, outdated format. Yes, the content is very important, but the presentation tells me volumes about the professionalism of the candidate. Even if they've used a template or got someone to help them, that shows that they know the importance of presentation.
I'd be interested to know if anyone else shares my opinions..?
I'd be interested to know if anyone else shares my opinions..?
... Then I don't want to work for that company.
Vulpine makes a good point: Substance first. At least RTF allows for basic formatting to make the document more pleasing than .TXT. Assuming RTF is more universally readable, that would be my choice. AND it speaks to the professionalism of the candidate insofar as he is anticipating the document being used in many different ways.
I pity the fool (me) who uses tables in Word 2007 Docx...I can print to PDF, will that make it searchable? Save as .PDF, or Word 2003 (.doc)...I really don't want meta data, e.g. also, don't want to protect it, and want to hide all modifications...what then? What about one's intellectual property sending a modifiable word doc to a recruiter who can then use it for their own template for other candidates....argh frustrating....
"I would have serious doubts about the professionalism of a candidate sending through a CV in RTF."
I find that shocking, and indicative of a lack of professionalism on your part. Why would you arrive at the conclusion that a format that is more stable, more performant, more portable, more secure, and less prone to problems of all descriptions is a sign that someone is somehow less professional?
"As a recruiter . . ."
Oh, that's why.
I find that shocking, and indicative of a lack of professionalism on your part. Why would you arrive at the conclusion that a format that is more stable, more performant, more portable, more secure, and less prone to problems of all descriptions is a sign that someone is somehow less professional?
"As a recruiter . . ."
Oh, that's why.
I haven't changed jobs in over 5 years, but when I was last hunting I created my resume in several different formats - Word, PDF, RTF, TXT, ODF, HTML, dead tree - and could readily submit it in whichever format the interviewer/recruiter wanted. I actually didn't own MS Office (not broke, just stubborn); To create Word files I was working in OpenOffice and exporting to .doc format, then using the free MS Word Viewer to check for formatting errors.
I'd be surprised if most places didn't tell you up front what their preferred format was. If they don't, perhaps you should show some initiative and ask? If they want my resume translated into Klingon and saved as a WordPerfect document, that's how I'd give it to them.
I'd be surprised if most places didn't tell you up front what their preferred format was. If they don't, perhaps you should show some initiative and ask? If they want my resume translated into Klingon and saved as a WordPerfect document, that's how I'd give it to them.
I was using open Office saved it as word as some recruiters requested it, yes PDF wasn't acceptable to them despite it being my format of choice to keep formatting. Noticed between OpenOffice and word versions, word viewers etc formatting was inconsistent. Sometimes what fitted onto a page here and there spread just onto a second page making the resume longer than it should be wasting space, and other elements shifting. I even used a trial version of office 2007 and found inconsistencies between my documents and other office versions. I do wish they would all accept PDF, it wasn't as if my PDF documents were not search-able, printable etc.
On the job your aiming for.
A web or graphical developper can show off their skills with a good html or word document.
If your applying for a job which is Unix related, can you be sure they use (ms) office?
And MS office =>2007 and open office and derivates have always been able to save their files as searchable PDF's
A web or graphical developper can show off their skills with a good html or word document.
If your applying for a job which is Unix related, can you be sure they use (ms) office?
And MS office =>2007 and open office and derivates have always been able to save their files as searchable PDF's
If an applicant does an excellent job by writing a good resume, the first thing you might expect from the hiring person is that he would be able to properly analyze the good resume. Who's to blame here ?
You make a good point. Unfortunately, HR people doing a bad job may be enough to stop you from getting a good job, so it still makes sense to think about how best to get your way past the incompetent gatekeepers of a big corporation.
A simple answer, though, is to aim more for jobs at small companies run by smart people.
edit: Judging by some of the voting behavior around here, I have to wonder whether there might be some HR people from large corporations wandering about downvoting people for pointing out the very real problems that arise in bureaucratic corporate environments.
A simple answer, though, is to aim more for jobs at small companies run by smart people.
edit: Judging by some of the voting behavior around here, I have to wonder whether there might be some HR people from large corporations wandering about downvoting people for pointing out the very real problems that arise in bureaucratic corporate environments.
.rtf is a bit crude, but I guess it would be effective.
However, use MS Word (or similar) and stay away from fancy formatting. As far as I know, there is no requirement for justifying text, and generally indents and/or simple bullets should translate/convert correctly.
Don't use fancy line spacing either - if you're so pressed for room on a page that you have to use a 0.5 line space, then you're probably trying to convey too much information or conveying it inappropriately.
However, use MS Word (or similar) and stay away from fancy formatting. As far as I know, there is no requirement for justifying text, and generally indents and/or simple bullets should translate/convert correctly.
Don't use fancy line spacing either - if you're so pressed for room on a page that you have to use a 0.5 line space, then you're probably trying to convey too much information or conveying it inappropriately.
What exactly is the problem with a file format that does everything you actually need in a resume format that should be as consistent and simple as reasonably possible, portable, and so on? How is it "crude" if it just fails to do more than you actually need, and as such avoids portability issues that apply to formats that do a lot more than you need?
I see many CV's from (almost always Indian) candidates who have copied large sections of their CV from someone else's, and don't even change the fonts or formatting style to be all the same throughout. I can usually identify which CV they copied from on LinkedIn by doing a Google search for that particular section of the CV. They are invariably surprised that I spotted this.
i was bowled over, left flat, and realized I was trying to get on the slow train when one such useless hiring manager went nasty about not receiving a doc file when Word was noted and I finessed an rtf
Toni, I am seriously underwhelmed by the depth that you went into to create this article. I acknowledge that the subtitle says "outlines some issues" but seriously.....
How about a discussion about some of the Pros and Cons.
E.g. in Word Documents. They can contain meta data that you may not want recruiters and potential employers to see.
They are easier to edit if as a recruiter you want to cut out the dross (and contact information) and forward to employers
And Pro's of PDF Documents.
PDF's are more difficult to edit.
Modern PDF's can have digital rights information embedded.
How about a discussion about some of the Pros and Cons.
E.g. in Word Documents. They can contain meta data that you may not want recruiters and potential employers to see.
They are easier to edit if as a recruiter you want to cut out the dross (and contact information) and forward to employers
And Pro's of PDF Documents.
PDF's are more difficult to edit.
Modern PDF's can have digital rights information embedded.
Save it as RTF, the rename the file and change the extension to .doc.
No metadata saved, and the hiring manager or head hunter who opens it will never know it wasn't really a Word doc
No metadata saved, and the hiring manager or head hunter who opens it will never know it wasn't really a Word doc
Doesn't WordPad still have that memory leak it had when it was called Windows Write on Win3.x?
I had one ugly incident in which a "head hunter" rewrote my resume to show skills
and experience that I didn't possess! I got an interview on the basis of this bit of garbage! We were about ninety seconds into the interview when I realized that
there was something very odd going on!
I told the potential employer "that's not my resume". I handed him a hard copy
of my resume and said "THIS is my resume". We got on the phone to the idiot's manager. The idiot was out on the street shortly thereafter but the damage was done!
After that, I asked the agencies I dealt with to not alter my resume in any way! If
they felt that changes were needed, I would make the changes.
and experience that I didn't possess! I got an interview on the basis of this bit of garbage! We were about ninety seconds into the interview when I realized that
there was something very odd going on!
I told the potential employer "that's not my resume". I handed him a hard copy
of my resume and said "THIS is my resume". We got on the phone to the idiot's manager. The idiot was out on the street shortly thereafter but the damage was done!
After that, I asked the agencies I dealt with to not alter my resume in any way! If
they felt that changes were needed, I would make the changes.
I actually make a point of having all the relavant information in LinkedIn. Some agencies are able to extract the information required from there. LinkedIn also has a feature to create a PDF resume of your work.
Most places like Monster or CareerBuilder not only let you upload a copy of your resume in Word format that can be downloaded by potential recruiters, but also extract the information to get a jumpstart on building the 'enhanced' resumes they build online for you.
Avoiding fancy formatting and using old version of MS Word will do the trick.
-It is better than RTF
-All .doc application reader will read it right (backward compatibility feature in newer applications)
-It is better than RTF
-All .doc application reader will read it right (backward compatibility feature in newer applications)
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