Discussion on:

Ubuntu pulls the 'official' plug on Kubuntu

I've never been much of a fan of KDE. I did start out my Linux use with MEPIS which used KDE and I found it pretty uninspiring.

I switched to Ubuntu with version 6.06, and I'm still using Ubuntu, though on 11.10 now.

After suffering with Unity for the over a year (the desktop switcher is excruciating to use, and I switch desktops a LOT!) I installed Cinnamon last month, and the relief was instant.

Now, Cinnamon is a Gnome fork, sponsored by the Mint Linux folk, but it works just fine with Ubuntu.

The GUI issue has been tempting me to defect to Mint, but at this point installing Cinnamon was much quicker and easier.

Now, when Ubuntu 12.04 appears, I'll have to decide If HUD makes Unity more usable. I'll probably run it for a while on a thumb drive, before I up and install it on my main system. If HUD doesn't help enough, I'll install the next release of Mint when it gets here.

I saw "user interfaces", but I read "user interfeces".
Come to think of it, I bet you put that in there!!!

Nick, you're saying:
"I came into this branch in midstream, so to speak, got distracted, and only now went back to fully re-read the OP."
How, so? When I've posted my OP it was I believe 5th or 6th post in here, yet you're claiming/suggesting that you came in the midstream and wasn't fully informed, yet, your first post acknowledges my original point from my OP. So, Nick, either stay where the truth is or stay with your "friends". Don't be like a flag on the wind.

was the branch of this discussion that hangs off your original post.

My first post chronologically was a comment on the attitude of the replies to your original post, and not an endorsement of that post. Matters (and manners) have since deteriorated to the point of flaming by you and others.

As I recommended earlier, unsubscribe and let it ride.

I booted my first Linux distro from a free Ubuntu CD in 2006. I've experimented with Mepis, Puppy, DSL, Debian, Xubuntu, Mandriva, and Freespire to name a few distros. But I always came back to Kubuntu and it remains my OS of Daily use today as it has been most ofthe time since '07. It just feels right to me. If the KDE team decides to create their own OS they can count me in as one of their charter users.

As a matter of fact it's THE distribution for people who like the KDE desktop.

How I switched from Windows to Ubuntu, Mint, Kubuntu, and finally OpenSUSE:

1) Tested classical Gnome based Ubuntu on VM on Windows, and said to myself: "Ummm... this doesn't look half bad. Got to see how it works on the box of its own"

2) Bought myself new computer, installed Windows 7 on one partition, Ubuntu on another, left 2 partitions empty, just in case. Later on, this made switching from distro to distro very easy.

3) Installed all the eye candy, Compiz & stuff, and gradually got hooked on it. Compiz sphere looks great, plus, if you bind it to one of the mouse side buttons, enables you to find your windows & switch between them very quickly.

4) Canonical mingled Unity with Compiz, and broke everything. Aarrgh! Switched to Mint Julia.

5) Upgraded Mint from Julia to Katya. Katya's Compiz was bug-compatible with Canonical's bastardized version. Aaarrrgh! Switched to Kubuntu.

6) Kubuntu upgrade broke MySql Workbench. Aaaarrgh! Switched to OpenSUSE.

For the time being, I'm quite satisfied with OpenSUSE. Apart from some troubles with GRUB2/GRUB discrepancies, and the usual wrestling with NVIDIA drivers, I had no mentionable problems.

I was forced to try out Unity and Gnome 3 in order to keep up with Ubuntu upgrades. I did try hard, but they are immature and they just didn't work for me (and Gnome Classic appears to be badly broken). They "get in the way" of what I need to do. My impression is that a lot of people are now moving onto KDE to be able to maintain a desktop that is mature and workable for them. Whatever Ubuntu elects to do in the future I think we desperately need to maintain choice, since different people do different things in different ways. MS is also making similar fundamental UI changes but in their case their users cannot keep the old way of doing things without dropping far behind. KDE gives us that choice so please let's keep it alive and growing.

Well, maybe linux would be much more successful OS if the so called community would threat "new" users with friendly and encouraging attitude instead of this now famous reply to almost every technical question: RTFM. Guys, this way you are killing yourself. I've tried few times to switch from Windows to Linux, and due to the fact that I was a "new" user I asked different questions. RTFM was what I got most of the time. So if in order to do x, y and z I have to RTFM, let me tell you, I don't want to RTFM, I need answer to a specific question and I don't have hours of time on hand to spend and read FM. And the funniest thing is that in this FM very often there isn't answer to this question. Guys, blame yourself. On Windows if I need an answer, I'm getting it, nicely, politely, without problems, without telling me that Windows is just for professionals (as I've got replies that Linux is). Guys, blame yourself. Customer service is one of the most important things and you simply didn't have it.

That word implies you actually paid for something. Is that the case? Did you pay for the support of the people you were asking?

If you're not willing to put in the time to learn it, why do you even want to use it. Just stick to what works for you.

I've been a *nix admin for years and I'll just tell it straight. I don't think "Linux", per se, is going to ever be a common desktop. Servers are one thing....desktops are something else. I also don't really see any point in making an agenda out of doing it. People simply don't care enough about computers and software to go, "Wow...I really want to learn how to use something else."

So, from my own point of view, I'll tell you to read the manpages myself. I'll leave out the "F" part, but if you don't want to learn it, don't. I'm not going to do your research for you.

@tbmay
Absolutely. There are people in this (I won't say which) organisation too lazy to read even to the end of a two line email. I'm a hard core Linux user, avoiding Windows whenever I can. Then they want me to figure out how to do this and that in this application on Windows and then tell them how to do it. Mostly it has to do with layout and graphics - things that don't interest me at all. I've even been asked to learn how to use a program that makes membership cards and then tell them how to do it.

We don't want these monkeys on Linux. Let them stay with Windows. Funny thing is, Linux is nowadays as easy, or easier, to use use than Windows. They just don't know it.

You've just wrapped up everything wrong with the IT industry and the majority of Linux users in a single, self-important, arrogant sentence. You make me ashamed to say I work in IT.

Ok, so according to you, if I don't pay I have no right to expect civilized treatment, good quality software/manuals etc?
Ok, no problem, and that's why I'd rather pay and have high quality stuff and have PROPER customer service. That's why I use windows. NO PROBLEM for me whatsoever. You stick to your own, we stick to our own and we all be happy. Great! NO PROBLEM.

You referring to ubuntu forums? Then yes, there's a lot of jerks of all stripes.

You would be surprised by the Mandriva forums. Almost everybody who comes there from a different distribution remarks at how helpful and friendly Mandriva users are.

It's a tight enough community that the bad attitudes are weeded out rather swiftly.

For numerous reasons I suggest people new to Linux use Mandriva, the help from the community being one major plus.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/customer

So you don't have a RIGHT to expect ANYTHING. If someone takes the time to help you, he's doing you a favor. He doesn't owe you any more than some stranger walking down the street.

Quote:

"Ok, no problem, and that's why I'd rather pay and have high quality stuff and have PROPER customer service. That's why I use windows. NO PROBLEM for me whatsoever. You stick to your own, we stick to our own and we all be happy. Great! NO PROBLEM."

That makes perfect sense to me. We have an understanding.

I'm a customer but in places where they actually appreciate someone's (mine) business.
Linux world seems to be not bothered with future/new users/customers. That's fine. But result of it is that no one who wants to make business will support it. And I do not believe that someone will give me better free service than when I actually pay for one. And you are wrong that someone who isn't payed do not owe me anything. Respect, understanding, patience, manners... did you hear of any of them? If not, RTFM? how would you like that? Anyway, I gave a go to few distributions of Linux, none of them could (especially software I needed) even come close to what I have on Windows. As simple as that. And as I've said, I'd rather pay and have high quality stuff than get something for free and when it doesn't work and I'm asking question why, in response I'm getting: Did you pay anything for it? which incorrectly implies that I have absolutely no right whatsoever to expect it to work as it should be. Ok, that's why I'd rather pay and do my work instead of spending hours on trying to figure things out just to discover that this isn't actually working.
By the way, the spirit in which you wrote last reply very clearly resembles the spirit and vibe one gets on "Linux" forums. You're not this, no one owes you anything, etc.
Dude, get over it and get a life. No one (except kids) will want to have anything to do with you if you treat them in "the linux fashion".

Use what you want. I'm not a "Linux" evangelist. The ONLY thing you and I agree on is the Linux evangelists tend to look like jerks in their mothers' basements. I'm middle-aged...married...and support systems to make money.

But an awful lot of open source software does what it does better than other software. And developers have generously made it freely available. So every time my clients, and employers, have taken advantage of the open license, stability, and security of such things as Apache, mysql, php, OpenBSD....the list goes on and on...they have benefited from SELFLESS developers.

The difference between them and you and they didn't think anybody OWED them no learning curve.

You got your distros for free. The information is available. Documentation takes time, and time is money.

If you take desktop applications to which I was referring to and which such I work with, then I don't see any competitions from Linux side.
Documentation, over all is in professional world integral part of a product. And Linux world doesn't have it. That's the whole crux.
You know it is like comparing a restaurant to a cheap/almost free diner. In the latter you're not suppose to complain, have preferences, be discontent because everything there is so, so cheap. After a while using/visiting those places you getting use to the waiting staff (if any) horrible attitude - because everything there is so cheap. This is so sad, yet so true. That's why for this reason only as long as I can afford I'm going to dine only in high class restaurants, where my wishes, desires tastes are catered for, no one makes stupid faces when I complain that I don't like this or that dish, everyone is pleasant and the whole place has nice and welcoming atmosphere. Owners of this place want make money. They provide support. I'm their customer. They treat me as such, with respect and understanding. With patience and pleasant manners. That's what I like. That's why I'm prepare to pay for it.
And by the way, I didn't try linux because it was free. I wanted to try something else than Windows. And you know how it felt like? Like switching exclusive, expensive restaurant for a cheap diner.

It's like being given a free meal, then complaining that the chef didn't cook it the way you liked it. See you have to pay something at the cheap diner too.

http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-385653-3633183

Paid them for their services have you? Among many things you fail to understand is we do have lives. Better things to do than waste our time helping ingrates like you for nothing. By for nothing I mean you'd gain nothing from the experience either.

Responsibility, diligence, intelligence, reason ... did you ever hear of any of them? Demonstrate a few of those virtues and maybe you'll get the respect you think you're due. As simple as that.

TANSTAAFL

His point in his initial post was that he asked what he thought was a valid question and did not receive "responsibility, diligence, intelligence, reason" in return, but was essentially told to "RTFM, n00b!"

Not everything is about money. Sometimes it's simply about treating others the way you wish to be treated. Demonstrate that virtue and maybe you'll get the respect you've forfeited by your response here. As simple as that.

And you alluded yourself in another post to the fact that you recognize people have an attitude of entitlement toward tech support. It is impossible to separate that idea from the irritation people have toward this poster. I've always had a great deal of respect for Ansu's opinion's too, and he sees this the same way I do.

If I went to some random website that alleged to have medical experts and asked about an odd symptom I was having, and someone responded with an equivalent of RTFM, would I be rational to come here and say the "medical community" has a bad attitude and crummy customer service?

Regarding money, unfortunately, if you don't make it, you don't live. I've said it before, when the bank stops demanding a mortgage and I can walk in to the grocery store and cart out groceries without paying, and without the police locking me up, I'll solve people's tech problems for free and be as helpful as I can.

I'm not going to hold my breath.

You have problem with analogies. It's not like you say: "If I went to some random website that alleged to have medical experts and asked about an odd symptom I was having, and someone responded with an equivalent of RTFM, would I be rational to come here and say the "medical community" has a bad attitude and crummy customer service?"
The problem would be better described with this analogy:
"I went to 10's of websites who allegedly supposed to provide medical support, and I asked most likely very novice question. In response I got RTFM!" Then my conclusion is that:
1. I'm not going to bother any more with them
2. I do believe that this is common in such community
3. I'd rather pay and be treated like a customer/patient
4. I'm asking myself question: Why are those people there? If they are there with the purpose of help to others why are they so rude? NOWHERE on those websites says that only the most advanced questions will be answered. I assumed then that I can ask my question there even though it was probably silly and for someone who is expert didn't even sound like real question. And on all of them situation is the same RTFM. No! thank you. I'd rather pay.
And just to give you and others frustrated, irritated, arrogant and rude "professionals" advice:
1. If you don't want to help don't, no one is expecting this from you. This is much better that insulting others who actually thought they will get help they needed.
2. If you pretending/want to help do is as a man not like a child

Customer doesn't always mean someone who payed.

Anyway, to me linux at this stage is like a cheap diner - even this short exchange proves this. I didn't attack anyone, didn't insult, I've just expressed my opinion which I believe is both valid and polite, and what did I get in response? Abuses, insults, smart ass responses like tbmay's trying to teach me who customer is and why I don't have ANY rights, etc, etc etc.

Guys, once and for all - no one who wants to make real business will accept this riff raff behavior. They go where people behave like professionals, businessmen who actually wants to do a business not listening insults and smart ass responses from riff raff.
This will constrain linux community to riff raff and only people who accept this kind of treatment. I think signs of where it will lead at the end already started to show up. Continue in this spirit and you stay alone in this world. Good luck.

Quote:

"Customer doesn't always mean someone who payed."

In a non-slang context, it most certainly does. Period.

Quote...from your first quote:

So if in order to do x, y and z I have to RTFM, let me tell you, I don't want to RTFM, I need answer to a specific question and I don't have hours of time on hand to spend and read FM."


Then I suggest you stick to what you know, or what suits you. Or pay someone to help you. Hey, Nick took the trouble to give you some great links to start with if you REALLY want to learn Linux. Great place for you to start. But you told us you don't WANT to read the manpages...just solve your specific problem. Now pray-tell-me, why would anybody do that for someone who is telling them how he doesn't want to learn it himself?

I have gotten great feedback from some of the most "hard-core" user groups in nixland by simply not acting like anybody owed me anything. Give that a try. Betcha it will work.

It sounds to me like Windows is working for you, so stick with it and be happy.



I

That attitude of
"Dood, come help me with this"
"Ok, done"
"Why are you still here?"
And then they wonder why nobody bothers.

Worst thing is, they might not realize they have an attitude problem. They have this near-sociopathic egocentrism going on, with no sense of community, no sense of giving back - or even appreciation. Nothing.
They're cold fish shouting for service - and people learn to ask for payment up front - because they *know* it's gonna be an exercise in aggravation-tolerance to help those selfish asses.

I came into this branch in midstream, so to speak, got distracted, and only now went back to fully re-read the OP.

Carry on.

Even in a non slang context customer not always means someone who payed. Period.
But that's really not important at this stage.
Don't you see that riff raff like you and the other greek by exactly this kind of behavior you've presented here just proves my point?
Someone who is payed is obliged to behave in a normal civilized way (NickNielsen), someone who isn't and has very low social skills, no manners etc (you and the other greek) behave like pair of wankers. Typical linux behavior.
As for Nick's links, Nick, thank you but at this stage I am convinced that linux simply doesn't have quality desktop applications which would suit my needs, and the high standards I'm used to have.
There is no competition for AutoCAD from linux side, open office is nowhere near Microsoft's Office, Visual Studio has no competitors in linux world, gimp is nowhere near photoshop. Do you see now what I mean, what high standards I'm talking about, and why am I saying that linux world looks next to windows like cheap diner next to classy restaurant?
And I even didn't mentioned here RTFM which is sooo linux.
That's why I'd rather pay.

It's clear from how you keep repeating it that your real point is to tell people "I'd rather pay".
What has been pointed out to you is that you are in fact entitled to the full deluxe treatment under Linux, if you in fact pay for that.
Otherwise you have to go by your charming personality. Your behavior here has given many of us cause to believe that your charming personality needs some work.
There are also Linux people who lack a charming personality, for sure. This is due to the simple fact that nobody has hired them to do tech support on those forums, so nobody has checked if their personality is a good fit for that.
Nick, knowing the latter fact, gave you the benefit of the doubt. Far as I understand his last comment, he has read your output and withdrawn that benefit.

Anyway, your reason for speaking here seems to be to be some kind of shill/trolling, which isn't welcome.

Nick, I figured once you read the original post, you would understand the desire to make sure we had a proper definition of customer.

Ansu...about your observation of teenagers....

You are completely correct. In fact, this is something we talk about in my home, as my wife is a teacher, and I worked in I.T. in a school district for years.

We hold out a hope that it is just an age thing, and something that will be grown out of. But there is a pretty commonly know issue going on with hiring 20-somethings these days regarding narcissism and entitlement, that is being observed in corporations. If it's not something they'll grow out of, Lord help us when they start running the world.

The ubiquity of the Internet and technology has fostered a mindset that just because someone has a computer, somebody somewhere has an obligation to make sure it does what they think they want it to do. I've tried very hard to understand why they feel that way, but I just can't. Since I recognize it, I've learned to do exactly what you've observed, demand payment up front and signed agreements.

I use linux and mac, but in some connections I come to windows, like for example on my wife's PCs or in lecture rooms stationary machines. When I encounter a problem, there is help menu. In at least 90 per cent cases in my case the help offered is totally useless and irrelevant. This is because the trivial points are explained, but I would usually not have trivial problems. So whether using Linux or Mac or Windows, I always go to Google and search. And then I meet unselfish and caring people everywhere - mainly through their postings of solutions. And then I also post some of my solutions somewhere.

The good "custommer support" on windows generally is a myth.
(But naturally, one can have a good support in some client relationship - and that is good, but does not mage an absolute rule)

Missing support on Linux is consequently also a myth.

And I am very disappointed by the tone of the discussion at this thread. Some people in the Linux community might be temporarily frustrated sometimes, but I doubt that the lines shown here with all the RTFM are in any degree typical. I have never met anything like this in real life.

But why Linux - because it stimulates your creativity and you as a person. You are led to think when using the computing devices. What is wrong with windows? Windows represent a main part of a cultural paradigm the mankind should have been spared for. Well, but now we have it (far already about 17 years). How many years it will take to heal the dammage?

Is my statement about all commercial computing? No: Mac tradition is definitely different. It might be that recent Apple strategies might lead to negative ends, but up to now it can not be compared with the negative effects of windows culture, from my perspective of science educator.

@lad.kroc Damage? When you develop an operating system that lets you connect to machines and instruments then you'll have a prolific product. Apple doesn't even try. Linux has a chance but most people developing it are only interested in making the "other Windows".

NO OS STIMULATES CREATIVITY FROM NOTHING. If you are a creative person any one of these systems becomes a tool. If you're not creative then you'll just want a system to do a specific task: numbers or browsing or writing. A Mac can't make a writer write more than can a Windows PC.

As soon as a person or company packages Linux according to its strengths (task-specific systems) then you're going to see it take over industries where Windows, DOS, and Unix now dominate.

Apple's Mac? It's like a Lexus - an overpriced Toyota with a exaggerated sense of worth.

"You didn't pay for anything, why are you crying because you can't get support? Why don't you learn to use it on your own?"

This attitude is exactly why the vast majority of people who try to use Linux and ask for help return to their previous operating systems. It's also the reason most people think poorly of IT. It's intolerant, condescending, disrespectful, and, to be frank, offensive. It screams "Go away, n00b, you bother me," without actually voicing the phrase.

And it completely overlooks the fact that, quite often, the manpages don't contain a clear answer to the question to anybody not already proficient in *nix.

....because I've always respected your opinion, and I'll take another look at my attitude...or at least the one I gave off here.

I suppose since I'm not an evangelist, and actually use Windows myself, among other things, your opening quote doesn't seem so bad to me. Understand I was also looking at this through the veil of a business owner who has tied up hours on a cell phone with "quick questions" and "pick your brain" from users of non-Linux systems, who had no darn intention of paying. So you could say I'm a little sensitive to an entitlement attitude.

But seriously. I see absolutely no point in changing to linux just for the heck of it. And if you want to do that, you have to realize the burden of learning it is on you. The answers are all over the web.

It's like being given a free meal, then complaining that the chef's meal actually harms you/and or is inedible (for someone who is used to prime quality food and PROPER service), and for that being scoffed by chef and stuff: Why are you complaining? You are not a customer, you got it for free!
That's why I'd rather pay.

You were the one who said you wanted to ditch Windows, that was YOUR desire, remember?
If you don't see a problem in PAYING FOR SERVICE, why didn't you? (Part of the price of a windows license is the "free support", and even then you might still need paid support)
I absolutely guaran-bloody-tee you, that if you go to a Linux board and say "Hey guys, where can I find a good consultant in my area, to help me get into Linux" ... yeah, you say that, and I guarantee you you'll get plenty of helpful advice.

Just because the OS is OS, it doesn't mean that you can't pay people for the time they spent learning it.

What kind of idiot would change OS without allowing for deployment costs, anyway?!? Deployment costs something, either your own time or the time of someone else.
Get a consultant to help you, end of story.

I never said that I want to ditch windows, just because I wanted to try something new doesn't mean that I want to ditch the old, does it?
And just to observe, in your post, words idiot, all those exclamation marks, the whole vibe: typical linux.
That's why I'd rather pay.

My experience in life is this; the answer you get strongly correlates with the manner in which you ask. From your mannerisms, I find it hard to believe that you didn't do your damndest to deserve a snooty answer.

Also, don't effing lie: Here's what you said
"I've tried few times to switch from Windows to Linux"
Switching from one to another does usually imply ditching the old, but THAT IS NOT EVEN RELEVANT, dumbass.
The thing that is relevant is that when you buy Windows, you pay for some amount of service. When you download Linux, you don't. If you can't figure out how to get an answer, because you are an obnoxious ass, then pay someone to suffer you while they set up your machine. People are like that, they'll put up with id10ts for pay.

And again; I repeat; as I AM A WINDOWS USER, my words CANNOT BE ATTRIBUTED TO MY NONEXISTENT LINUX-NERD ATTITUDE.

I just don't suffer fools lightly is all.

I see..., I don't think anybody but you will find my mannerism offensive, I also don't think switching means ditching one and using exclusively the other. In my case it means switch to try and if you don't like switch back. So read, understand what you reading and be aware of the fact that one word may have more meaning than just one you think of.
But your language and attitude just proves my point - linux is a cheap diner inhabited by types like you or in other words your kind makes expensive and exclusive places look like cheap diners.
That's why I'd rather pay, but sadly even then I'm not guarantied that I will not be surrounded by riff raff like you. Sad but true.

And no, I haven't started using Linux since my last post, so as a matter of fact, my kind inhabit Win7, not Linux.

You're a troll. And if you troll on a Linux board, yes, you've deserved an RTFM, if even that. Leaves people time to deal with people who actually want to be helped.

Ballmer will kick your ass for that!
Not only are you a snob, you're a clueless one at that.

A waiter to bring plates to you when you're at an all you can eat buffet. That isn't how they work al la carte man. Lets see what service costs today I haven't looked in a while.

http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/en_US/pd/productID.235387100

Pay you will! Next time you're in a Linux forum offer the $99 that costs to the first person able to help you with your problem and see how polite people get.

You're too easy to burn you know that? You just set yourself up with no facts to go on, expecting I will do likewise, and then fry fry fry! Shooting fish in a barrel is more sporting than going after you. Pathetic.

You deserve to run Windows. You deserve to get bent over every upgrade cycle for every buck they rake you over the coals for.

I started running Linux in 1995 and by 1996 I'd ditched Microsoft Windows entirely. Sure in the beginning the going was tough but I have some backbone and I slogged on. Today I've absolutely no regrets. In 2010 I finally bought myself a new PC. Was the first money I'd spent on computing in the whole time. I figured I was due you know? Actually I grew more and more concerned about the PC I am on now a Gateway E-4300 I pulled out of a trash pile with a BIOS date of 2001. But here I am and it is still running so I guess my fears were unfounded. I am most concerned about hard drive failure, nothing software related.

How much have you pissed away on software alone in the past 15 years? I shudder to think. But beyond the money there is the peace of mind I enjoy knowing my OS is rock solid and will be there for me day after day year after year nay decade after decade now!

That is a priceless benefit you will NEVER know. Because you haven't earned it. So buck up or f*ck off. By buck up I don't mean pay with cash either. I mean pay with blood sweat and tears. Because that is how everything of true value is earned in this world.

You frigging cry baby.

"There's a sucker born every minute." --P.T. Barnum

It's software Paul. God didn't say, "Linux have I loved, and Windows have I hated." Normal people don't really care what software people use. And I'm a guy who has been a Unix admin for a LONG time, with a ton of Nix on my resume.

Edit -

And don't take this comment to mean I've changed my mind about atch's attitude. Unfortunately I see the attitude in every aspect of technical work. When people start defining the word "customer" as basically anybody who goes to a web site and downloads something for free, we have a problem with an "entitlement attitude."

I'm looking at it as end-user support. The "quick questions" and "pick your brain" are what I'm paid to do. I agree with you that there has to be some point at which you have to say "I'm going to need some revenue if I help you any further," and start charging for your assistance.

I approve of your expectation that a new user should be willing to learn on his own, but not of the open-ended "The information is on the web" response. To that end, I usually provide links to on-line Linux/Unix tutorials.

http://tldp.org/LDP/intro-linux/html/
http://www.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Teaching/Unix/
http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~wjk/UnixIntro/
http://www.linux-tutorial.info/
http://www.tuxfiles.org/linuxhelp/cli.html

Some of them are more or less clear than others, and the assumptions of user skill level are different, but in all cases, they start from the beginning.

First of all, you did the fellow a favor of getting him some good sites to start with. You did him a FAVOR. You didn't have to. You did it out of generosity, and you darn sure didn't owe it to him.

And I'll bet you dollars to donuts he feels like he shouldn't have to read all that...just solve his specific problem for him. Then the next one... Then the next one.... And when you get sick of doing someone's homework for him, he'll call you jerk.

Second, you said you were PAID to handle those question. So, someone is paying your salary. Maybe you're not the guy collecting the bills, but someone is, and the people collecting the bills have to make sure the business is getting paid for your expertise.

I had both roles, and I don't love this stuff enough to work for free. Might have 30 years ago, but bills must be paid.

I'm in user support because it's what I enjoy doing, so, as I said, I have a different outlook on it than you do.

If the answer to the first question is a simple one, I'll give it, then provide the links. (It takes about 5 seconds to open the file, mark, Ctrl-V, Alt+Tab, Ctrl-C.) Along with the links comes a standard phrase: "You can probably find the answers to many of your questions here. If you wish to learn about Linux, these links are a good place for you to start.

I'm not going to address the sense of entitlement many end users have toward tech support. People that wouldn't dream of asking their doctor to diagnose them at a cocktail party have no problems asking the 'geek next door' to essentially do the same. Since I DO get paid to do this, that's long been a sore point. The first question is free, but after that, I start asking them if they want to schedule a support visit.

When you talking about first demanding payment then this by definition is not helping but providing a service. In same way an electrician doesn't help me when he fixes something in my house, a builder doesn't help me when he builds extension to my house etc. They provide service. Just like you do.
But on the contrary to you and your poor understanding of basic definitions, I'm a customer even if I don't pay. If I enter let's say Tesco, I'm for their stuff a customer - immediately, even before I picked anything from the shelf.
That's where your problem lays buddy - you have poor understanding of the world surrounding you and even the most basic concepts are not really clear to you.

If you go into the Library, you're not a customer - BECAUSE THEY*RE NOT SELLING ANYTHING!
That's where your problem lies buddy - you have a poor understanding of the world surrounding you, and even the most basic concepts are not really clear to you.

But, if he doesn't understand by now, I'm under no delusions he's going to. He also doesn't know the difference between a shopper, a loiterer, and a customer. I would try to explain the concept of professional services, and why someone providing professional services in I.T. related work must work with agreements and earnest money, so as to protect themselves from people who have no more concern for other peoples time than to demand it without compensation, but for some reason, I think it would fall on deaf ears.