When Windows 7 came out I had been using it for a while and really looked forward to its release. Not so with Win8. I have been using it but overall I am not getting that "need" feeling like I had for XP and Windows 7.
As of this moment, will I get it?:
Phone - tbd
Tablet - yes
Notebook - only if forced
Desktop - only if forced
Not feeling the luv at the moment for Win8
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In the dev preview, the start menu launched metro, this was better, I could get used to that. And in the dev preview, you had the option to completely disable metro and all the useless tablet features and use the system they way we want to use the system.
The consumer preview took away these "Correct" things.
MS seems to be fighting with itself. On one hand, they understand users don't use the OS, they use the programs on it. Metro supports this. On the other hand, they have forgotten that users need all their programs to work, and work the same way they did before. Users aren't interested in the "Experience" they just want to get work done.
The consumer preview took away these "Correct" things.
MS seems to be fighting with itself. On one hand, they understand users don't use the OS, they use the programs on it. Metro supports this. On the other hand, they have forgotten that users need all their programs to work, and work the same way they did before. Users aren't interested in the "Experience" they just want to get work done.
Well, that might mean a new influx of users to the Apple and the "end-user linux distros" (e.g. Ubuntu, Sabayon, etc.) platforms.
The key argument that I hear from *any* Windows user about why they stay in Windows when they have had a major issue with one of their apps is: "Well, *most* of the time, it just works." If that isn't true anymore, then what does Microsoft have to offer in their OS'es?
The key argument that I hear from *any* Windows user about why they stay in Windows when they have had a major issue with one of their apps is: "Well, *most* of the time, it just works." If that isn't true anymore, then what does Microsoft have to offer in their OS'es?
It does work for the most part. But it's a BETA. Hence, it's clunky and beta-like and has minor issues that are being worked out.
For the most part it DOES work. It works really well on a tablet and appears that they have been designing it specifically for a tablet. Now they just have to iron out the wrinkles on the pc side. It doesn't seem like anything devastating to me. I've adapted to it really quick and only find it inconvenient in a few fixable ways that I fully expect to be resolved once it goes live.
But the real gem is the full experience of using your windows live ID between the phone, desktop and tablet. That's where people that don't have a win phone or a tablet are going to think that most of Win 8 is just unnecessary and, for them, it is. But once you buy in to even 2 of the devices in the ecosystem, it gets really slick. I expect Xbox to be fully integrated into this ecosystem as well by go live.
For the most part it DOES work. It works really well on a tablet and appears that they have been designing it specifically for a tablet. Now they just have to iron out the wrinkles on the pc side. It doesn't seem like anything devastating to me. I've adapted to it really quick and only find it inconvenient in a few fixable ways that I fully expect to be resolved once it goes live.
But the real gem is the full experience of using your windows live ID between the phone, desktop and tablet. That's where people that don't have a win phone or a tablet are going to think that most of Win 8 is just unnecessary and, for them, it is. But once you buy in to even 2 of the devices in the ecosystem, it gets really slick. I expect Xbox to be fully integrated into this ecosystem as well by go live.
I'm not furious. It's just a piece of software, one that's not even out of beta yet.
Mostly I'm confused. Confused by why MS thinks this will be an adequate replacement for W7 on desktop, laptops, and other 'traditional' systems with no touch interface, especially since it brings few improvements over W7. Confused by how to use it effectively when most of my previous Windows skills seem to not apply. Confused by conflicting reports on how to do things or even if old actions are still necessary (shutting down, closing apps). Confused by a lack of information regarding what Metro means for future releases of MS's server and back-end products (if anything). Confused by what future 'traditional' products will look like when shoehorned into the Metro format.
Too many unanswered questions.
Mostly I'm confused. Confused by why MS thinks this will be an adequate replacement for W7 on desktop, laptops, and other 'traditional' systems with no touch interface, especially since it brings few improvements over W7. Confused by how to use it effectively when most of my previous Windows skills seem to not apply. Confused by conflicting reports on how to do things or even if old actions are still necessary (shutting down, closing apps). Confused by a lack of information regarding what Metro means for future releases of MS's server and back-end products (if anything). Confused by what future 'traditional' products will look like when shoehorned into the Metro format.
Too many unanswered questions.
I share a lot of the same sentiments. Businesses I support are just now making the Windows 7 switch and now it's making IT pros everywhere look like they are deploying old tech. I tried the beta Windows 8 for about 10 minutes, and was nothing but confused. I do not understand Balmer's thinking on this one other than they are looking for a way to seem "fresh" again. The metro UI is polished touch screen garbage IMHO. In a way, it seems to mock the Google Play app store on my android phone.
I say they need to concentrate more on making the most of Windows 7 for the time being, barring any major technological advancements in OS's, I think Windows 7 is going to be my XP for the next 10 years.
I say they need to concentrate more on making the most of Windows 7 for the time being, barring any major technological advancements in OS's, I think Windows 7 is going to be my XP for the next 10 years.
Wow ... you managed to learn all of this in just 10 minutes! ..... way to give a product a fair go before starting to rubbish it and sprout your uninformed opinions for all to see. In saying that at least you tried it, that's more than what most of the blogger trolls have done before jumping on the anti-Win8 band wagon.
I'm now running windows 8 on my Tablet PC, work desktop (at home), kid's workstation and my wife???s netbook. The whole family loves win8 and whilst Windows 7 was great, Windows 8 adds that something extra .... there have been no murmurs from anyone in the family about wanting Windows 7 back.
I'm now running windows 8 on my Tablet PC, work desktop (at home), kid's workstation and my wife???s netbook. The whole family loves win8 and whilst Windows 7 was great, Windows 8 adds that something extra .... there have been no murmurs from anyone in the family about wanting Windows 7 back.
Oooooo-kay. I don't get why people would load a test OS across multiple personal devices, but whatever floats your boat. You realize you'll eventually have to either upgrade to the release version (and pay for it) or downgrade back to whatever you were running before, right?
Care to share what that 'something extra' is?
Care to share what that 'something extra' is?
We have windows phones. After install, you make a user id. If you use your windows live ID, it pulls your info down from the cloud. After being logged in for 5 minutes, ALL of our contacts and calendar events were synced up. Our facebook and linked in accounts were live in the people pane. Our photos were propagating and I clicked my skydrive and was able to get to all of my documents.
5 minutes out of the box and it was a fully usable machine with almost zero configuration. After some theme adjustments, I was able to log on to another machine and experience the same effect only with my backgrounds and color choices following me.
It's by no means perfect and has a few things to work out still, but this is awesome. As an IT guy, I have 5 computers that my wife, two kids and I use. I was a full time IT guy at home hooking up things for whoever and re-saving links to desktops and whatnot (my kids are 2 and 5). Now, they can log in on their own with their 4 digit code and it pulls their updated stuff down automatically no matter where they are.
It's very slick and everyone loves it.
5 minutes out of the box and it was a fully usable machine with almost zero configuration. After some theme adjustments, I was able to log on to another machine and experience the same effect only with my backgrounds and color choices following me.
It's by no means perfect and has a few things to work out still, but this is awesome. As an IT guy, I have 5 computers that my wife, two kids and I use. I was a full time IT guy at home hooking up things for whoever and re-saving links to desktops and whatnot (my kids are 2 and 5). Now, they can log in on their own with their 4 digit code and it pulls their updated stuff down automatically no matter where they are.
It's very slick and everyone loves it.
The moral of the story is we are fully on board with Win 8. When we have to upgrade and re-install, it will be a simple re-install and 5 minutes after logging in they will have everything back again with no downtime.
After installing mine, everybody else wanted it and seeing this made it a no brainer to install it everywhere.
After installing mine, everybody else wanted it and seeing this made it a no brainer to install it everywhere.
I don't install beta software outside test environments, and I don't consider my personal home systems as test environments. I've been burned too many times. Heck, for deployment I usually follow the 'Not before the first Service Pack' policy!
Back to W8, however. You and yours have an advantage many (most?) of us trying W8 do not - a Windows Phone background. Others neither have nor want Windows Live accounts, so those 'advantages' don't apply to us. (From a workplace point of view, we don't allow any company data to be stored off company equipment; the cloud isn't a factor.) But even if I had a web-based account of some kind, I'd still wait on the release version before slapping it on the home machine. Just me, I guess.
Back to W8, however. You and yours have an advantage many (most?) of us trying W8 do not - a Windows Phone background. Others neither have nor want Windows Live accounts, so those 'advantages' don't apply to us. (From a workplace point of view, we don't allow any company data to be stored off company equipment; the cloud isn't a factor.) But even if I had a web-based account of some kind, I'd still wait on the release version before slapping it on the home machine. Just me, I guess.
If you're in a windows environment, the cloud may be able to be stored on your local company equipment still even though you're using a cloud service like skydrive. Windows server 8 has a lot of baked in cloud services like this that will likely let you redirect this behavior via policy in some way.
Still, my main reason to use my home machines as guinea pigs is that I can be highly experienced in the product before it even hits which gives me a leg up in my career. It also enables my company to be more swift and move with the times quicker than most because I'm keeping pace with the technology rather than waiting for others to work out the kinks.
The old days of waiting for SP1 so all of the bugs are worked out are gone. SP1 for Windows 7 was completely insignificant and those who waited gained nothing and missed out on a great, stable OS.
Still, my main reason to use my home machines as guinea pigs is that I can be highly experienced in the product before it even hits which gives me a leg up in my career. It also enables my company to be more swift and move with the times quicker than most because I'm keeping pace with the technology rather than waiting for others to work out the kinks.
The old days of waiting for SP1 so all of the bugs are worked out are gone. SP1 for Windows 7 was completely insignificant and those who waited gained nothing and missed out on a great, stable OS.
Thank you for this comment.
I was a 20year Macintosh user (we owned a software company which developed Workflow Automation robots for the MacOS) and I recently switched to a Windows Phone from an iPhone 4s and I will probably not go back. Here's why: My Windows Phone (HTC Titan) is configured with my Microsoft (Live) Accounts. The Metro UI acts like a "live" dashboard of information that updates in Real-Time. Everything I need is right at my fingertips and updates all the time. All my social graphs; Facebook, Linkedin, etc. are built directly into the phone. Much like Palm's WebOS, everything is integrated through "contracts."
When the Windows 8 Consumer Preview came out, my 12 year old son and I setup his notebook with the software. Because he was the previous owner of the Titan (we traded phones cause there are WAY MORE GAMEs on iOS than WinPhone), all of his social graphs and his Xbox were configured with his MS Live Account. After we logged-in with his "Live" account, the Dashboard (Start/Metro) populated his data from the cloud (including is Xbox avatar). He was BLOWN away to say the least. He LOVES Metro and says it is WAY easier to understand the Windows 7.
Afterwards, I setup another account on his notebook with my Hotmail account, and my data populated my Dashboard from the cloud...AMAZING.
Two profiles, two completely different sets of Dashboards.
Then I loaded Office 2010 and it ran like a charm, this on a 6year old cpu with 2GB of Ram and 80GB HD. For Beta software, this stuff is very good technically.
Anyway, as a Tech Professional, I am excited to give my Executives a tool which allows them to configure a corporate Dashboard, yet still allows them to get "real work" done. As for my users, they will appreciate a system which keeps them "up-to-date" and lets them navigate to Start using only the Window's key.
Basically, the complaints that I see are from people who either don't share Microsoft's vision or have not configured their systems properly to take advantage of that vision.
As someone who has designed User Interfaces for a living, what Microsoft has done is nothing short of brilliant.
If you are reading this, don't listen to the naysayers. "Dive In, the Water's fine."
I was a 20year Macintosh user (we owned a software company which developed Workflow Automation robots for the MacOS) and I recently switched to a Windows Phone from an iPhone 4s and I will probably not go back. Here's why: My Windows Phone (HTC Titan) is configured with my Microsoft (Live) Accounts. The Metro UI acts like a "live" dashboard of information that updates in Real-Time. Everything I need is right at my fingertips and updates all the time. All my social graphs; Facebook, Linkedin, etc. are built directly into the phone. Much like Palm's WebOS, everything is integrated through "contracts."
When the Windows 8 Consumer Preview came out, my 12 year old son and I setup his notebook with the software. Because he was the previous owner of the Titan (we traded phones cause there are WAY MORE GAMEs on iOS than WinPhone), all of his social graphs and his Xbox were configured with his MS Live Account. After we logged-in with his "Live" account, the Dashboard (Start/Metro) populated his data from the cloud (including is Xbox avatar). He was BLOWN away to say the least. He LOVES Metro and says it is WAY easier to understand the Windows 7.
Afterwards, I setup another account on his notebook with my Hotmail account, and my data populated my Dashboard from the cloud...AMAZING.
Two profiles, two completely different sets of Dashboards.
Then I loaded Office 2010 and it ran like a charm, this on a 6year old cpu with 2GB of Ram and 80GB HD. For Beta software, this stuff is very good technically.
Anyway, as a Tech Professional, I am excited to give my Executives a tool which allows them to configure a corporate Dashboard, yet still allows them to get "real work" done. As for my users, they will appreciate a system which keeps them "up-to-date" and lets them navigate to Start using only the Window's key.
Basically, the complaints that I see are from people who either don't share Microsoft's vision or have not configured their systems properly to take advantage of that vision.
As someone who has designed User Interfaces for a living, what Microsoft has done is nothing short of brilliant.
If you are reading this, don't listen to the naysayers. "Dive In, the Water's fine."
Maybe what it comes down to is that there are too many old farts posting here? Old geezers who have reached that point in life where they simply don't want to even try to learn something new?
My mom is 91 years and still going strong. I believe that part of what keeps her going is the fact that she still tries to do new things and learn new things. She recently bought an Android phone - not because she needed it, but because she wanted something new to learn about. She's gone through Windows 95, 98, XP, Vista and now 7, without breaking a sweat. Oh, sure, it took her a few days to find her way around the changes between versions, but it was never a huge struggle for her.
From the tone of your message, I'm guessing you are also the type of person who likes to experiment and try new things. Maybe all the people who complain so much about needing to be "completely retrained" to make the transition from XP to Vista or 7 are just people who can't handle picking up something new?
Rick
My mom is 91 years and still going strong. I believe that part of what keeps her going is the fact that she still tries to do new things and learn new things. She recently bought an Android phone - not because she needed it, but because she wanted something new to learn about. She's gone through Windows 95, 98, XP, Vista and now 7, without breaking a sweat. Oh, sure, it took her a few days to find her way around the changes between versions, but it was never a huge struggle for her.
From the tone of your message, I'm guessing you are also the type of person who likes to experiment and try new things. Maybe all the people who complain so much about needing to be "completely retrained" to make the transition from XP to Vista or 7 are just people who can't handle picking up something new?
Rick
"I know this steak doesn't exist. And I know that the Matrix is telling my brain that it is juicy and delicious. After 9 years, you know what I have learned? Ignorance is bliss."
All of your existing applications require a paradigm shift ... all the real work is done behind the tile facade. The applications that are Metropolized are enormous wastes of screen real estate and don't offer anything that, e.g., Weather Bug couldn't have from your system tray.
Are you sure it's not "better" just 'cause it's new and different? Does it do anything a $30 shareware shell replacement couldn't have done?
Are you sure it's not "better" just 'cause it's new and different? Does it do anything a $30 shareware shell replacement couldn't have done?
There is nothing that has provided a good strong desktop system since Panther and XP. Everything since has been razzle dazzle that primarily any addon application could have given the system.
There is truth to the saying: Software continues to improve until it ultimately becomes unusable.
There is truth to the saying: Software continues to improve until it ultimately becomes unusable.
Tell me, what addon application could give Windows XP 64 bit support? Yeah, I know there was a 64 bit version of XP, but no vendors ever made software or drivers to support it, so it was pretty much useless. And what addon application could give XP the impoved security that Vista and 7 have over XP? What addon could give XP full support for AHCI disk controllers, having more than 3 GB of RAM, etc.?
The bottom line here is that you are probably one of these people who only uses his computer to check email, surf the web and maybe play a game of solitaire. You find that it is too difficult to learn anything new, so you are happy to stay in the past. You criticize people who want new features and new capabilities to help them get their work done as a way to compensate for your inability to understand how to use the new features to your benefit.
Rick
The bottom line here is that you are probably one of these people who only uses his computer to check email, surf the web and maybe play a game of solitaire. You find that it is too difficult to learn anything new, so you are happy to stay in the past. You criticize people who want new features and new capabilities to help them get their work done as a way to compensate for your inability to understand how to use the new features to your benefit.
Rick
... you really can't stop them from drinking the kool-aid!
If some people wish to turn a blind-eye to hard-learned past lessons, you gotta let them walk off the cliff so they might learn the lessons again. It *might* stick this time.
But, back to Win8 for a moment: We just tried the preview of Win8 Server in a test environment and found that they have a "console/text-only-install mode" now??? So, now you can have Windows with no windows??? Errr...
"Ummm... Yeah! That'd be great...! Did you get a copy of that memo? Well, you go ahead and make sure you do that, and I'll make sure you get another copy of that memo..."
If some people wish to turn a blind-eye to hard-learned past lessons, you gotta let them walk off the cliff so they might learn the lessons again. It *might* stick this time.
But, back to Win8 for a moment: We just tried the preview of Win8 Server in a test environment and found that they have a "console/text-only-install mode" now??? So, now you can have Windows with no windows??? Errr...
"Ummm... Yeah! That'd be great...! Did you get a copy of that memo? Well, you go ahead and make sure you do that, and I'll make sure you get another copy of that memo..."
I'm not sure what your point is. Are you saying that having more options is a bad thing?
I guess you didn't know that the option to install Windows server as the "core OS," without the Windows interface has been an option since Windows Server 2008.
Rick
I guess you didn't know that the option to install Windows server as the "core OS," without the Windows interface has been an option since Windows Server 2008.
Rick
I agree...I've done the exact same and everyone really likes it. The roaming profile really enables each user to use whatever computer they want and feel right at home which is cool. My five year old has mastered it already and she's running on a 10 year old PC. That blows my mind in of itself.
... that it's doing EXACTLY what it was designed for: hold user's hands and keep them in the sandbox like the obedient kindergarten kids they're supposed to be.
Why not get plugged in Microsoft's Matrix directly while you're at it?
Why not get plugged in Microsoft's Matrix directly while you're at it?
Personally I think you are out of hand here. I installed, started and hated Win8. I didn't even need ten minutes. I have it running in VM's and on my tablet. The only place it makes sense is the tablet. Server 8 is just as bad. At the moment that is. Before people start moaning, yes I know what I am doing, no I do not feel the need to state my quals. I am not an apple/linux fanboy. I like windows, I just do not like win8 yet.
Surely ten minutes is enough to know how good something is. I read your post and after a mere 10 minutes have realized that you don't know crap about anything.
These people spout off like they know all there is to know about Windows 8 after 10 minutes or less. I've spent at least 2 or 3 hours with Windows 8, and I feel like that is barely enough to have formed any strong opinions one way or the other.
But this is clearly the problem here: We have all these people who insist W2K or XP is the best, but they've never spent more than 10 minutes trying to learn anything new. They claim that the newer versions of Windows are too difficult to use, are inefficient to work with, etc., but the bottom line is they've never put more than 10 minutes worth of effort into trying to learn how to take advantage of the improvements in the newer versions of Windows.
Rick
But this is clearly the problem here: We have all these people who insist W2K or XP is the best, but they've never spent more than 10 minutes trying to learn anything new. They claim that the newer versions of Windows are too difficult to use, are inefficient to work with, etc., but the bottom line is they've never put more than 10 minutes worth of effort into trying to learn how to take advantage of the improvements in the newer versions of Windows.
Rick
I think a lot of people criticizing Windows 8 haven't even used it. Many people seem to have formed their opinion from looking at screenshots of Metro. How else can you explain the fact that so many complain that the desktop is gone? 
I think you are probably right. They either haven't tried it all, or they didn't even try clicking the "Desktop" icon. Or maybe something that seems so simple to you and me is just way too complex for some people to figure out? Or could it be that there are just a lot of people here who like to whine and complain about everything Microsoft does, just for the sake of hearing themselves whine and complain?
Rick
Rick
First things I did after installation was add it to a domain, second things was look at the imaging tools and other consorts using the console. Same as windows 7 so why bother upgrading ? Lose the metro tiles and there is not much difference to 7. If you are looking at from an enduser view...mybe is it cool...for an Admin, nothing has changed yet, so why change ? Tried installing it yet from WDS? I have. I do believe I do actually know what I am doing and as a grown-up I am capable of forming a reasonable and reasoned opinion. I still do not like it.
Nowhere in any of my messages have I ever said that anyone SHOULD upgrade. Nowhere in any of my messages have I said that Windows 8 is in any way necessarily BETTER than Windows 7. Nowhere have I ever said that Metro is actually an IMPROVEMENT.
My only objections have been to the people who claim it is too hard to learn anything new; who claim that a few minor changes to the interface are equivalent to car makers putting the driver's seat in backwards, putting the gas pedal on the roof, etc.; who claim that W2K or XP already have everything that ANYONE needs, and newer versions of Windows offer nothing but "eye candy" or useless clutter.
Anyone who spends a few hours learning to take advantage of the new features in newer versions of Windows (such as Windows 7), will quickly see that there is a lot more there than just eye candy and useless clutter. Anyone who thinks they can spend 10 minutes looking at Windows 8 and, based on 10 minutes experience, determine that there is nothing new there that is worth anything to anyone is a fool. Anyone who thinks that just because they want to stay in the past, then everyone else should also be happy to stay in the past with them is a fool. Anyone who thinks Microsoft is somehow forcing them to upgrade is full of hot air.
Rick
My only objections have been to the people who claim it is too hard to learn anything new; who claim that a few minor changes to the interface are equivalent to car makers putting the driver's seat in backwards, putting the gas pedal on the roof, etc.; who claim that W2K or XP already have everything that ANYONE needs, and newer versions of Windows offer nothing but "eye candy" or useless clutter.
Anyone who spends a few hours learning to take advantage of the new features in newer versions of Windows (such as Windows 7), will quickly see that there is a lot more there than just eye candy and useless clutter. Anyone who thinks they can spend 10 minutes looking at Windows 8 and, based on 10 minutes experience, determine that there is nothing new there that is worth anything to anyone is a fool. Anyone who thinks that just because they want to stay in the past, then everyone else should also be happy to stay in the past with them is a fool. Anyone who thinks Microsoft is somehow forcing them to upgrade is full of hot air.
Rick
Nowhere in his OP does Tony say it's too hard to learn something new. Nowhere does he make any of the claims you cite in your post.
He loaded Win8, looked at it, and didn't like it. He dug around under the hood, didn't see any significant differences from Win7 besides the Metro interface, and saw no need to proceed further. He expressed his opinion that in his (admittedly limited) experience Win8 only made sense on the tablet. He then closed with the sentence "I like windows, I just do not like win8 yet."
How does "just do not like" extrapolate to "afraid of change"?
He loaded Win8, looked at it, and didn't like it. He dug around under the hood, didn't see any significant differences from Win7 besides the Metro interface, and saw no need to proceed further. He expressed his opinion that in his (admittedly limited) experience Win8 only made sense on the tablet. He then closed with the sentence "I like windows, I just do not like win8 yet."
How does "just do not like" extrapolate to "afraid of change"?
How am I "on Tony?" I guess there is just some kind of a communication problem here. The problem seems to be that when someone says something to the effect that "I like Windows 8," or in my case "I haven't used it enough to have a strong opinion," many people here interpret that as saying "I think you should be forced to upgrade to Windows 8 immediately!"
The result is that we see these threads where, for example, one guy says that he put Windows 8 on all his family's home computers, and then he gets accused fo being "all religious" about Windows 8, and gets accused of being foolish for putting "beta" software in his "production" environment, etc. I make comments to the effect that it's absurd to think that MS will "force" anyone to upgrade to Windows 8, or that spending 10 minutes with Windows 8 is not enough time to learn enough about it to really say for sure if it is any better or any worse than Windows 7, and I am accused of being an MS fanboy, and I am accused of thinking that anything new and shiny is necessarily better, etc.
And, if I try to clarify my position, by pointing that I never said anyone should upgrade, and that my only objections all along have been to the people who make various claims about being forced to upgrade, or about it being too hard to learn anything new, then I am accused of "being on" someone.
I guess I just have to accept that there is a double standard in this forum, where it is acceptable to attack, insult and criticize people who are open to trying out new software, but people who are open to trying new software dare not say anything negative in response to people who automatically hate new software.
Rick
The result is that we see these threads where, for example, one guy says that he put Windows 8 on all his family's home computers, and then he gets accused fo being "all religious" about Windows 8, and gets accused of being foolish for putting "beta" software in his "production" environment, etc. I make comments to the effect that it's absurd to think that MS will "force" anyone to upgrade to Windows 8, or that spending 10 minutes with Windows 8 is not enough time to learn enough about it to really say for sure if it is any better or any worse than Windows 7, and I am accused of being an MS fanboy, and I am accused of thinking that anything new and shiny is necessarily better, etc.
And, if I try to clarify my position, by pointing that I never said anyone should upgrade, and that my only objections all along have been to the people who make various claims about being forced to upgrade, or about it being too hard to learn anything new, then I am accused of "being on" someone.
I guess I just have to accept that there is a double standard in this forum, where it is acceptable to attack, insult and criticize people who are open to trying out new software, but people who are open to trying new software dare not say anything negative in response to people who automatically hate new software.
Rick
We have all these people who insist W2K or XP is the best, but they've never spent more than 10 minutes trying to learn anything new. They claim that the newer versions of Windows are too difficult to use, are inefficient to work with, etc., but the bottom line is they've never put more than 10 minutes worth of effort into trying to learn how to take advantage of the improvements in the newer versions of Windows.
That was in your response to glitch177k's response to tony (titled "Exactly!"). Tony said he tried it, didn't like, and felt it was suited only to a tablet. At no time did tony imply any of what you assume or state in those two sentences. The rest of your complaints are also based on reading something more into the posted words that is actually there.
If there is indeed be a communications issue here, it's not one-sided.
That was in your response to glitch177k's response to tony (titled "Exactly!"). Tony said he tried it, didn't like, and felt it was suited only to a tablet. At no time did tony imply any of what you assume or state in those two sentences. The rest of your complaints are also based on reading something more into the posted words that is actually there.
If there is indeed be a communications issue here, it's not one-sided.
I know nothing. I have only been traing IT peeps up to MCSE, MCITP levels for over 10 years now, but I know nothing. Your qualified, I repeat QUALIFIED opinion is worthless. I make desisions about more important things than OS's in less than 10 Mins. WIN8 is still useless outside of a tablet environment. Only thing that could be interesting is the implementation of virt. desktops.
I guess my 35 years of IT experience is meaningless compared to your massive 10 years experience! Clearly you are a super-genius when it comes to computers and you can instantly know everything there is to know about a new version of Windows. I am sorry for doubting your superior intelligence.
Now, if you can just get over yourself, maybe you could offer some intelligent input here.
Rick
Now, if you can just get over yourself, maybe you could offer some intelligent input here.
Rick
You just outlined how YOU are the problem for your businesses. Windows 7 IS old technology. It came out in 2010. It doesn't work on a tablet very well at all and the times have changed where phones and tablets are a big part of the future of IT. People that don't adapt will fall by the wayside and IT guys that can't convey this message to the businesses they support will lose out to guys that can.
You can keep windows 7 for 10 years. Nobody is forcing you to move. But good luck selling that to your clients as OS development gets more rapid and robust. And you're missing out on some amazing features that really make Windows 8 easy on IT guys (baked in roaming profiles based on their win live id and skydrive!). Give it a chance before you form such an opinion.
You can keep windows 7 for 10 years. Nobody is forcing you to move. But good luck selling that to your clients as OS development gets more rapid and robust. And you're missing out on some amazing features that really make Windows 8 easy on IT guys (baked in roaming profiles based on their win live id and skydrive!). Give it a chance before you form such an opinion.
Newer does not necessarily equal better. Businesses have to justify the expense of new or updated software. If what they have still meets their requirements and functions well, IT is going to have a very hard time selling an upgrade.
That's why I still use WinXP at work; not because WinXP does everything I want it to (although it does), but because none of the OEM-provided apps that flash and load the the equipment I support run under Vista, Win7, or Win8...not even in compatibility mode.
That's why I still use WinXP at work; not because WinXP does everything I want it to (although it does), but because none of the OEM-provided apps that flash and load the the equipment I support run under Vista, Win7, or Win8...not even in compatibility mode.
You can't even buy xp. You HAVE to buy windows 7 if you buy new computers. Sure you can try to force it onto old computers, but IT doesn't have to sell anything to management. Microsoft won't let you buy it and they won't support it soon as it is.
Your argument is a cop out. The only sales pitch you need to make is that you need to find vendors that aren't selling you 10 year old software technology. That's really sounds like your problem is that you're going the cheap route with your vendors.
Your argument is a cop out. The only sales pitch you need to make is that you need to find vendors that aren't selling you 10 year old software technology. That's really sounds like your problem is that you're going the cheap route with your vendors.
First, they aren't my vendors, they are the customer's vendors.
Second, I have no control over which equipment the customer buys.
Third, I have no control over the software the vendors provide to support that equipment.
Second, I have no control over which equipment the customer buys.
Third, I have no control over the software the vendors provide to support that equipment.
...it's NEW! It's BETTER! It's SHINY! You MUST HAVE IT!
And if you're immune to the hype, it's only because you're old.
And if you're immune to the hype, it's only because you're old.
"It doesn't work on a tablet very well at all and the times have changed where phones and tablets are a big part of the future of IT."
No disagreement. What it ignores is that desktops and laptops aren't going away any time soon.
As to Windows Live, movement of data off company servers is a decision that will be made several managerial levels above me.
No disagreement. What it ignores is that desktops and laptops aren't going away any time soon.
As to Windows Live, movement of data off company servers is a decision that will be made several managerial levels above me.
How has anything you have seen in the latest corral's that MS and Apple are trying to build an improvement over using a service in a small organisation like google's email and calendar?
What big organisation (most are still using XP workstations anyway) would want flaming apps taking up the time and desktop space of their employee's?
It was bad enough with Windows 7. There were so many changes put in for tiltbits and DRM and other razzle dazzel stuff that it crippled the ability for the OS to move huge chunks of data across various drives. Many resorted to installing a program that would move files! Something that used to be a given in any OS, now is compromised.
Now we are seeing a situation develop where we will have to install a program that will return the normal workings of a desktop to us..
With huge advances in hardware, speed in an OS and efficiency as well, a lean mean machine should be a given. Not something you have to try to achieve because it is compromised by crazy ideas that are coming out of Apple and MS right now.
What big organisation (most are still using XP workstations anyway) would want flaming apps taking up the time and desktop space of their employee's?
It was bad enough with Windows 7. There were so many changes put in for tiltbits and DRM and other razzle dazzel stuff that it crippled the ability for the OS to move huge chunks of data across various drives. Many resorted to installing a program that would move files! Something that used to be a given in any OS, now is compromised.
Now we are seeing a situation develop where we will have to install a program that will return the normal workings of a desktop to us..
With huge advances in hardware, speed in an OS and efficiency as well, a lean mean machine should be a given. Not something you have to try to achieve because it is compromised by crazy ideas that are coming out of Apple and MS right now.
We have no problem moving data and doing business using windows 7. In a properly deployed infrastructure I don't think you would have a problem. You may have some major infrastructure issues if you are having these problems...
...moving data and doing business using windows 7. In a properly deployed[...]"
The term 'properly deployed' explains exactly the basis of disagreement between those who like Windows 8 and those who don't, and why fanboys can't see these restrictions as a problem, because they simply see them as 'proper' features.
The term 'properly deployed' explains exactly the basis of disagreement between those who like Windows 8 and those who don't, and why fanboys can't see these restrictions as a problem, because they simply see them as 'proper' features.
Why should anyone have to do anything properly? Everything should just magically work, right? You should be able to use an old extension cord in place of an Ethernet cable, and it should just work, right? After all, you can put cooking oil in your car engine instead of motor oil, and that will work just fine! And you can mix reds with whites in the washing machine and not turn everything pink, right? And of course, you can put any numbers you feel like putting on your tax return. The government won't come after you if you don't fill it out properly. It's only these stupid Windows computers that have these stupid requirements to do things properly. In any other aspect of life, you can do anything you want, any way you want, and everything will still be just fine.
I don't understand what you expect, and it's clear that you are not going to give a straight answer. Now you are saying that you think people who like Windows 8 are "fanboys" because they don't see doing things "properly" as being a problem? How is it a problem to have to do things properly? How should one expect anything to work properly, if it is not properly assembled/ connected/ configured/ etc.? Even your old friend, W2K will not work properly if it is not properly deployed. If it's not properly installed on proper hardware, with proper device drivers and so on, it will not work. I am not aware of ANY OS that will work properly if it is not properly installed and configured, on proper hardware, etc. So how is it such a problem that Windows 7 or Windows 8 also needs to be deployed properly, just like every other OS known to man?
It seems like you just don't understand very much about how computers work. But I guess saying that will get me accused of personal attacks... However, I just don't know what else the explanation could be. How else can you repeatedly make such absurd statements?
Rick
I don't understand what you expect, and it's clear that you are not going to give a straight answer. Now you are saying that you think people who like Windows 8 are "fanboys" because they don't see doing things "properly" as being a problem? How is it a problem to have to do things properly? How should one expect anything to work properly, if it is not properly assembled/ connected/ configured/ etc.? Even your old friend, W2K will not work properly if it is not properly deployed. If it's not properly installed on proper hardware, with proper device drivers and so on, it will not work. I am not aware of ANY OS that will work properly if it is not properly installed and configured, on proper hardware, etc. So how is it such a problem that Windows 7 or Windows 8 also needs to be deployed properly, just like every other OS known to man?
It seems like you just don't understand very much about how computers work. But I guess saying that will get me accused of personal attacks... However, I just don't know what else the explanation could be. How else can you repeatedly make such absurd statements?
Rick
Rick,
Whereas I discuss ideas and points on the philosophical level and reasonably expressed how I understand your position, you feel it necessary to get in a furor over it as if my opinion was some kind of proof of disease or mental inability to grasp the fundamentals.
Like I said, you can't see my point because for you it is 'obvious' that Microsoft has made 'improvements' and that anyone who cannot see this surely must be ill-informed or simply incompetent.
If you take offense for me using the word 'fanboys' to qualify those who like Windows 8 or Microsoft, I just can't see what else to say to you.
It it obvious to me and, as I gather, others here as well, that you are on a campaign to pick a fight with anyone who doesn't conform with what you believe to be the correct point of view on this issue.
End of story.
Whereas I discuss ideas and points on the philosophical level and reasonably expressed how I understand your position, you feel it necessary to get in a furor over it as if my opinion was some kind of proof of disease or mental inability to grasp the fundamentals.
Like I said, you can't see my point because for you it is 'obvious' that Microsoft has made 'improvements' and that anyone who cannot see this surely must be ill-informed or simply incompetent.
If you take offense for me using the word 'fanboys' to qualify those who like Windows 8 or Microsoft, I just can't see what else to say to you.
It it obvious to me and, as I gather, others here as well, that you are on a campaign to pick a fight with anyone who doesn't conform with what you believe to be the correct point of view on this issue.
End of story.
To both participants...
Please allow this particular subject to drop.
Please allow this particular subject to drop.
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