I am sympathetic to these bad raps each of you must struggle with everyday. One of the systems I developed for Hughes replaced a full-time accounting clerk. It just so happens that I became good friends with her and even though I was told she would be placed elsewhere, I felt responsible for replacing her with my system. She moved before the project was completed, greatly easing my conscience.
Back in the days when my hair was short I had an official Hughes pocket protector. It was a convenient place to wear my badge. Of course that was about 25 years ago and things change. You don't see that many Hughes engineers with shirt, tie, crew cut and pocket protector these days.
The issues of control and trust of one's data to IT are important ones. With IT moving to the cloud, these issues will become even more important.
How old is IT now? It is no longer a baby, coddled at every moment. Opportunities are now harder to find. IT may have already entered the contentious teenage years.
As always, I will be popping in occasionally to answer any questions and add to the discussion when I have something intelligent to say.
Edit: Added missing word
Discussion on:
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and are not solely the domain of IT. With the exception of the term "geek", you can
fit those to others. Yes, I realize we like to perceive ourselves as being picked on,
but other professions do this as well, they all say "normal" people just don't understand
what it is we do!
But for brevity, I'll shoot down one of your "reasons"...quote
3: We try to do the impossible
A doctor wouldnt try to diagnose a patient over the phone and yet this is exactly what IT support personnel are expected to do every day. Were expected to diagnose and fix problems remotely over the phone with customers who know little or nothing about the problem."
Doctors? Really? Are you sure? Do you have ANY experience around any health care
facility? Didn't think so or you would not have used this example. Doctors, nurses,
and heck even lowly pharmacists such as myself are routinely answering phone
questions, asked to not only diagnose the problem but offer the cure, all without any
face to face exposure! In fact, this is so predominant that many clinics and doctor's
offices now will CHARGE A FEE for telephone renewals of medication orders, otherwise
known as "phone-in refills"!
Anyhow, as you can see, I wear several hats...I'll now let you go feel sorry for yourself
and your supposed "bad rap". Hmmm...in my pharmacy profession, "IT" are considered
"average, normal" people that don't have any idea what pharmacists do! Guess it's a
good thing I can change hats every now and again!
edited to add:
quote "As always, I will be popping in occasionally to answer any questions and add to the discussion when I have something intelligent to say. "
You can pop in more often, no need to wait for a blue moon!
(Just joking with you, hehe...but you left yourself open to that one!)
fit those to others. Yes, I realize we like to perceive ourselves as being picked on,
but other professions do this as well, they all say "normal" people just don't understand
what it is we do!
But for brevity, I'll shoot down one of your "reasons"...quote
3: We try to do the impossible
A doctor wouldnt try to diagnose a patient over the phone and yet this is exactly what IT support personnel are expected to do every day. Were expected to diagnose and fix problems remotely over the phone with customers who know little or nothing about the problem."
Doctors? Really? Are you sure? Do you have ANY experience around any health care
facility? Didn't think so or you would not have used this example. Doctors, nurses,
and heck even lowly pharmacists such as myself are routinely answering phone
questions, asked to not only diagnose the problem but offer the cure, all without any
face to face exposure! In fact, this is so predominant that many clinics and doctor's
offices now will CHARGE A FEE for telephone renewals of medication orders, otherwise
known as "phone-in refills"!
Anyhow, as you can see, I wear several hats...I'll now let you go feel sorry for yourself
and your supposed "bad rap". Hmmm...in my pharmacy profession, "IT" are considered
"average, normal" people that don't have any idea what pharmacists do! Guess it's a
good thing I can change hats every now and again!
edited to add:
quote "As always, I will be popping in occasionally to answer any questions and add to the discussion when I have something intelligent to say. "
You can pop in more often, no need to wait for a blue moon!
(Just joking with you, hehe...but you left yourself open to that one!)
I have experienced patients diagnosing themselves for simple, obvious maladys and getting a prescription over the phone. As long as the prescription can't be abused and can't hurt the patient the doctor will usually call in the prescription - i.e. you aren't aking for oxycontin. For anything more complex, the doctor gets temperature, blood pressure, pulse rate, blood work and other "vitals." One thing doctors aren't blamed for is running too few tests. With the risk of lawsuits, they can't afford to be wrong. It's one thing to get the diagnosis wrong on a machine but get a diagnosis wrong on a person and the "patient" can die.
"Hmmm...in my pharmacy profession, "IT" are considered "average, normal" people that don't have any idea what pharmacists do!"
Touche. But don't they really secretly think we are a little bit weird?
Blue moon? The full moon we had on Saturday, the 5th of May, is called a supermoon. Okay, I'm just having a bit of fun back at ya.
http://www.space.com/15540-supermoon-science-full-moon.html
"Hmmm...in my pharmacy profession, "IT" are considered "average, normal" people that don't have any idea what pharmacists do!"
Touche. But don't they really secretly think we are a little bit weird?
Blue moon? The full moon we had on Saturday, the 5th of May, is called a supermoon. Okay, I'm just having a bit of fun back at ya.
http://www.space.com/15540-supermoon-science-full-moon.html
I was on holiday in the UK and the assistant wanted to diagnose my daughter's condition on the phone. They do that to save NHS money and avoid unnecessary visits. We weren't even in an inner city area where they would have much pressure. She wasn't even eligible for free treatment and they couldn't even give us a Vat number so we could claim back on the travel insurance. In my experience Doctors are like lawyers and care less because they don't even profit from you getting better. Too few tests? In the UK they never test you for anything. In the rest of Europe they might give you a test and actually make a diagnosis. (I visit the UK because I go back to visit my parents and family.)
But you guys in the UK have the Doc Martins, can diagnose any problem 
I know not really, but love the show.
I know not really, but love the show.
I had to reply to jsargent and his negative comments about the British NHS. As a UK resident, I am VERY happy with the NHS. I had a lump on my groin so I went to my doctor and he diagnosed a hernia. He contacted a specialist at the local hospital who confirmed the diagnosis and then I was asked when I'd like the repair operation done. I chose a date and it was done on that date. I now have regular checkups of blood presure, cholesterol, blood sugar, urine analysis, etc. and I get called in if I leave it too long between checks. Jsargent must have been unlucky with his daughter's need for medical attention. I have an American friend who visits the UK annually and on the rare occasions she has used the NHS, she too has had nothing but praise for it.
someone of very low intelligence must have escaped from their
basement.
basement.
The individual who flagged these posts called them spam and off-topic.
Your response to the OP was topical and subsequent responses to that are within that context.
I'm not looking for the Delete button...
Your response to the OP was topical and subsequent responses to that are within that context.
I'm not looking for the Delete button...
That is an unfair comment. VAT is a sales tax - since treatment in the UK is free, doctors don't make sales and don't collect taxes. They spend their time treating patients instead.
You say your daughter was diagnosed over the phone. I take it that means you phoned a medical practitioner, as they would hardly decide to phone you. They would be irresponsible if they didn't try to make an initial diagnosis over the phone, in order to decide the best action. What do you expect - for them to send out an ambulance with sirens blaring even if your daughter had sprained her finger?
If you hadn't backed out, your daughter would have been treated in the appropriate place for her ailment. As a non-resident, you would have been charged for this, after treatment. Your insurance company - if it was competent - would know the system, and wouldn't ask for a VAT receipt.
Having been the subject of several hundred free tests under the NHS, I can assure you the statement "In the UK they never test you for anything" is without foundation. They don't just test, they cure too. What they don't do is help themselves to your cash when you are ill.
British people won't set foot in the USA - not even an airport stopover - unless we have millions in travel insurance. Even then, we are scared the insurers will find some way of avoiding paying out. We are only too aware that the US "health service" is "cash first, care afterwards". No cash, and you can go to the crematorium for all the doctors care.
Most British people don't regard that as a superior system - we think it barbaric.
You say your daughter was diagnosed over the phone. I take it that means you phoned a medical practitioner, as they would hardly decide to phone you. They would be irresponsible if they didn't try to make an initial diagnosis over the phone, in order to decide the best action. What do you expect - for them to send out an ambulance with sirens blaring even if your daughter had sprained her finger?
If you hadn't backed out, your daughter would have been treated in the appropriate place for her ailment. As a non-resident, you would have been charged for this, after treatment. Your insurance company - if it was competent - would know the system, and wouldn't ask for a VAT receipt.
Having been the subject of several hundred free tests under the NHS, I can assure you the statement "In the UK they never test you for anything" is without foundation. They don't just test, they cure too. What they don't do is help themselves to your cash when you are ill.
British people won't set foot in the USA - not even an airport stopover - unless we have millions in travel insurance. Even then, we are scared the insurers will find some way of avoiding paying out. We are only too aware that the US "health service" is "cash first, care afterwards". No cash, and you can go to the crematorium for all the doctors care.
Most British people don't regard that as a superior system - we think it barbaric.
You may not pay at time of service, but you do pay - through a very heavy tax structure..
Hello J Sargent. I have never visited a UK local health center. Your comments make me wonder how they justify their behavior with the Hippocratic Oath:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath
We may be heading OT so I will ask if IT professionals should have their own version of the Hippocratic Oath?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath
We may be heading OT so I will ask if IT professionals should have their own version of the Hippocratic Oath?
i used to believe like jsargent - I've lived in the US all my life, and have never been out of North America. My opinion was based mainly from stories worse than his, and the fact that "they can't possible provide free health care efficiently for an entire country - it HAS to be pure chaos". I imagined a situation similar to our county hospitals, where patients are hearded like cattle, and you're lucky if you get to see a doctor in 5 hours.
Then my daughter moved to London (she LOVES London!). She's been in the UK for almost two years (London and Newcastle), and has nothing but praise for the health system there.
I guess it depends on who you talk to...
Then my daughter moved to London (she LOVES London!). She's been in the UK for almost two years (London and Newcastle), and has nothing but praise for the health system there.
I guess it depends on who you talk to...
We have that as a service in Ontario as well, though it is staffed by nurses not doctors. But no one says call them instead of 911. It is for situations where you don't want to visit a doctor, or can't for whatever reason, and you need to know your options. They may direct you to a doctor, walk in clinic, ER or whatever. It does save money for the system, but also take non-urgent cases out of the workload, and everyone benefits. And you get faster service.
I used to have some idea. I mean, they took p-chem, organic, biochem, a little toxicology, a little microbiology and pathophysiology, keep up with synergistic and antagonistic combinations, extremely few are employed to do research... (A friend tutored one such student and the copies of the texts are stacked up within reach, along with a couple references...which I'm slllooowwly reading through to review my biochem. Have had relatives and friends who worked in hospitals -- managers, surgeons, other docs, nurses.)
They used to have to compound various things, hence one of the common symbols being a mortar and pestle.
But even in the hospitals, all we ever SEE them doing is counting brand-name pills from one container into another and dispensing pre-packaged injectibles. Some of the local ones with whom I've spoken (e.g. I knew a pharmacist who owned a chain, plus a few of those pharma students) say that a lot of their knowledge is only rarely used, and a lot of the job is marketing the non-pharma goods in their shops, and counting pills. It seems to me that the key part is being responsible for counting the right numbers of the right-sized/-dose pills for the right customer, and keeping them out of other people's hands.
But maybe appearances and what they tell me is off the mark.
The starting salaries are much higher for the pharmacists, and the unemployment rates lower. The unemployment rates for dentists are about the lowest in the BLS quarterly reports; those for legislators and judges are generally very low, but show a bit of volatility; while actors have the worst unemployment rates I recall -- commonly 25%-55%.
They used to have to compound various things, hence one of the common symbols being a mortar and pestle.
But even in the hospitals, all we ever SEE them doing is counting brand-name pills from one container into another and dispensing pre-packaged injectibles. Some of the local ones with whom I've spoken (e.g. I knew a pharmacist who owned a chain, plus a few of those pharma students) say that a lot of their knowledge is only rarely used, and a lot of the job is marketing the non-pharma goods in their shops, and counting pills. It seems to me that the key part is being responsible for counting the right numbers of the right-sized/-dose pills for the right customer, and keeping them out of other people's hands.
But maybe appearances and what they tell me is off the mark.
The starting salaries are much higher for the pharmacists, and the unemployment rates lower. The unemployment rates for dentists are about the lowest in the BLS quarterly reports; those for legislators and judges are generally very low, but show a bit of volatility; while actors have the worst unemployment rates I recall -- commonly 25%-55%.
Yes, from the outside looking in, it appears that's all we do, move pills from
a large bottle to a small one...but just as in all professions, it's the things
that go on behind the scenes that are more important. Most pharmacists
check the prescription for errors, check for interactions and allergies,
check dose/strength. If problems are detected, we contact the prescriber
to determine alternate medications. All of this is done before we start
moving pills from the big bottle to the little one! Then there's all the insurance
processing that we have to do, most of it electronically now, at the pharmacy's
expense, again before we start counting pills.
Anyhow, just as in IT, there are innumerable things pharmacists SHOULD be
doing! I grew tired of the corporate pharmacy rat-race, decided to purchase
a little drugstore in a small town when the opportunity lended itself. I don't
make near the salary I could, but I enjoy life. I'm still "on call 24-7-365", but
instead of giving time to the company, I now get to give that time to my patients.
So, hopefully I've shed a little insight into what a pharmacist does...anyhow
what THIS pharmacist does!
a large bottle to a small one...but just as in all professions, it's the things
that go on behind the scenes that are more important. Most pharmacists
check the prescription for errors, check for interactions and allergies,
check dose/strength. If problems are detected, we contact the prescriber
to determine alternate medications. All of this is done before we start
moving pills from the big bottle to the little one! Then there's all the insurance
processing that we have to do, most of it electronically now, at the pharmacy's
expense, again before we start counting pills.
Anyhow, just as in IT, there are innumerable things pharmacists SHOULD be
doing! I grew tired of the corporate pharmacy rat-race, decided to purchase
a little drugstore in a small town when the opportunity lended itself. I don't
make near the salary I could, but I enjoy life. I'm still "on call 24-7-365", but
instead of giving time to the company, I now get to give that time to my patients.
So, hopefully I've shed a little insight into what a pharmacist does...anyhow
what THIS pharmacist does!
So, you think someone from outside IT couldn't possibly have anything to add?
Is that it? Well, here's a newsflash for you! I was in IT when you weren't even
a wet dream in your daddy's nightmares! Grew tired of it, all the AIX, Unix...
so I decided to go another route.
Yes, you nameless coward...there are people in the world that have SUPERIOR
intellect to YOU! Go crawl back under your mattress in your momma's basement
and wrap the tinfoil tightly around your head...on second thought, just hang
yourself and put the rest of humanity out of our misery.
(Sorry about that TR...guess I got a tad riled up!)
Is that it? Well, here's a newsflash for you! I was in IT when you weren't even
a wet dream in your daddy's nightmares! Grew tired of it, all the AIX, Unix...
so I decided to go another route.
Yes, you nameless coward...there are people in the world that have SUPERIOR
intellect to YOU! Go crawl back under your mattress in your momma's basement
and wrap the tinfoil tightly around your head...on second thought, just hang
yourself and put the rest of humanity out of our misery.
(Sorry about that TR...guess I got a tad riled up!)
the call centers all over India, Pakistan, Poland and elsewhere that are doing exactly that. Large firms set these call centers up to avoid having local IT staff visit every problem, the non IT staff got used to it and just started assuming we could fix everything over the phone.
I'm not saying the call centers are a total waste, but I do believe they have hurt our chosen profession much more than they have helped it.
I'm not saying the call centers are a total waste, but I do believe they have hurt our chosen profession much more than they have helped it.
Reading this piece I heard so many familiar daily bells ring of clients demands for instantaneous fix form 50 miles away it made me smile! IT is often, but not always well paid however for this we have to achieve results faster than god creating the earth in 7 days, remotely! Isn't it amazing though how many of these issues we caused by the user in the first instance (a code 18 as we call it, i.e. the issue occurred 18 inches from the keyboard!) Though when you achieve miracles and resolve the issue quickly seldom does thanks follow!
All that said, we all love it or we wouldn't do it, there is a certain kick out of resolving issues others can't, so I an my team don't mind, we'll continue to do what we've always done and go the extra mile every time and make sure the client smiles, because whenever you don't, your just no good and greatly overpaid.
All that said, we all love it or we wouldn't do it, there is a certain kick out of resolving issues others can't, so I an my team don't mind, we'll continue to do what we've always done and go the extra mile every time and make sure the client smiles, because whenever you don't, your just no good and greatly overpaid.
Hello Phil.
Your comments made me smile. Thank you for sharing them.
Your comments made me smile.
Thank you for sharing them.
Well, love it ?, was exciting earlier in my career (over 30 years now), got to really do research when working on projects. was not real training or certifications for new technology back then, you either could grasp it and learn it or not. These are the real IT old school professionals. Now we are just task monkeys, and wishing I had started that other business wanted to long time ago when had the chance. I stay in this field only because I know it very well and make decent money.
One bad rap I can identify with, paid too much.
OK, I keep trying to say something but it all seems offensive, but going to say this anyway, there are those who can grasp it (it meaning anything or IT) and those who can not.
Seems those who can not get paid as much these days and not knowing it as well then gives the entire profession a bad rap.
There, said it
One bad rap I can identify with, paid too much.
OK, I keep trying to say something but it all seems offensive, but going to say this anyway, there are those who can grasp it (it meaning anything or IT) and those who can not.
Seems those who can not get paid as much these days and not knowing it as well then gives the entire profession a bad rap.
There, said it
Maybe where you are, but not where I am. End user support is the worst-paid area of IT (not that most IT "professionals" consider the screw-turners as IT). After adjusting for inflation, I'm making today almost exactly what I made when I first retired from the USAF. In fact, after adjusting for inflation, most end user support jobs in this area are offering less than what I started at in 1999.
Yeah Nick, it's the same for IT support here - not great. Programmers, DBAs System Analysts and managers do quite well though.
While my take home pay is very reasonable, on an hourly basis, in previous positions, I made about the same as a manager at McDonalds.
In previous positions (my current position is quite reasonable), it was not unusual to work 7 days a week (come to think it, I do that now), logging 80-90 hours per week. I especially enjoyed the weeks where I had 40 hours of meetings and/or travel, then an additional 40-50 hours of actual work; while fielding several 2 am "emergencies" a week.
Hm.... same hourly rate as a fast-food manager, 100 hours of training (usually self education) a year, a few certifications a year, learning new languages or technologies every couple of years.... I can't think of many industries where you have the same load.
Medicine is similar (my cousin is a cardiologist), but after her residency, she was presented with this precious gift. I think they call it "a life"
In previous positions (my current position is quite reasonable), it was not unusual to work 7 days a week (come to think it, I do that now), logging 80-90 hours per week. I especially enjoyed the weeks where I had 40 hours of meetings and/or travel, then an additional 40-50 hours of actual work; while fielding several 2 am "emergencies" a week.
Hm.... same hourly rate as a fast-food manager, 100 hours of training (usually self education) a year, a few certifications a year, learning new languages or technologies every couple of years.... I can't think of many industries where you have the same load.
Medicine is similar (my cousin is a cardiologist), but after her residency, she was presented with this precious gift. I think they call it "a life"
I'm getting paid a living wage to do something I very much enjoy doing. Would I like to get more? Who wouldn't?
My problem is not with the rate of pay, but with the common assumption that, because I'm a hardware tech, my knowledge is somehow less valuable than that of the programmers and DBAs. Not to mention the public assumption that, as "the computer guy", I'm getting the same 'big bucks' as all those other IT people...
My problem is not with the rate of pay, but with the common assumption that, because I'm a hardware tech, my knowledge is somehow less valuable than that of the programmers and DBAs. Not to mention the public assumption that, as "the computer guy", I'm getting the same 'big bucks' as all those other IT people...
But hey, those aren't my numbers. They are a summary of all IT and Mathematics jobs as collected by the United States Labor Statistics, Occupational Employment and Wages --- May 2011. Click on the link in the article and you can see the breakdown by grouped profession. I can understand why you feel badly about being lumped with the occupations with more generous salaries. This site has the details:
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/archives/ocwage_03272012.htm
Computer support specialists supposedly have a 2011 mean annual wage of $51,820. As a comparison, Information security analysts, web developers, and computer network architects have an annual mean wage of $81,670.
It's not just support specialists that may be getting the short shrift. I have a special kindred with help desk analysts who need to know a lot of technical facts but are paid little for that knowledge.
It's a matter of perspective and relativity as well. $51,820 sounds good from where I am sitting but I can see that it might not look so good from your perspective. Of course, that number sounds good assuming that I am working on average 50 or less hours a week.
Edit: Fixed stupid copy and paste (???) error
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/archives/ocwage_03272012.htm
Computer support specialists supposedly have a 2011 mean annual wage of $51,820. As a comparison, Information security analysts, web developers, and computer network architects have an annual mean wage of $81,670.
It's not just support specialists that may be getting the short shrift. I have a special kindred with help desk analysts who need to know a lot of technical facts but are paid little for that knowledge.
It's a matter of perspective and relativity as well. $51,820 sounds good from where I am sitting but I can see that it might not look so good from your perspective. Of course, that number sounds good assuming that I am working on average 50 or less hours a week.
Edit: Fixed stupid copy and paste (???) error
I don't expect to be paid the same in South Carolina as I would expect to be paid in New York, California, or even Texas.
That mean is interesting and has me wondering exactly what jobs (and for who) are included in the "computer support specialist" category. I strongly suspect subcategories of "end user" and "big iron" in that category.
That mean is interesting and has me wondering exactly what jobs (and for who) are included in the "computer support specialist" category. I strongly suspect subcategories of "end user" and "big iron" in that category.
It's all about location, location, location. Fortunately, unlike your home, you can move your skills.
I've been in IT since 1978 and although the pay is reasonable, I'm not paid as well as many salesmen or managers. I enjoy IT and don't want to be a salesman or a manager and the salary is certainly adequate for me. However, if I were 25 years old with a wife and family, a student loan to repay and a mortgage I'd be really struggling. I'm certainly not paid anywhere near what some lawyers, doctors and dentists are paid, let alone bankers and their questionable bonuses. No, working in IT is not a way to get rich unless you're in one of the relatively few top jobs.
I'm with JohnOfStony: Lots of "attaboy"s (great praise for minor things, no praise for great and difficult achievements), a few "That's amazing! How did you ever figure that out!?", few bux, less and less employer investment in training. I'm not seeing any signs of high compensation in the BLS or NACE numbers, either.
It doesn't matter what the reality is. The perception is that IT folks are highly paid. Even when the high pay is a matter of not being able to calculate pay rates correctly!
Someone who gets the whole perception thing. Analytical thinkers typically take too many statement too literally and only accept facts as reality.
My recent experience shows how an IT head can make pretty much every mistake.
A company where I work a few days a month recently upgraded its computers, switching to Windows 7. I came back from vacation to find a shiny new computer waiting for me. Then it was impossible to log on to the network. As I'm not there very often, maybe I'd forgotten the password. Or the keyboard was changed (I use US layout on a French physical keyboard, everyone else in the company uses French keyboard layout), so I tried various combinations for quite a while. The ITdepartment were all in a meeting, so I spent another hour asking around. Some people thought there was a default password, but weren't sure what it was. It transpired that all the passwords had been changed while I had been away! No one in the IT dept had thought it necessary to let me know. Or even let my co-workers know.
Then, changing the computer without taking any account of my assorted downloaded files, installed programmes and Internet bookmarks. Not to mention the CD (needed on startup for one of the programs I use) that was still in the old PC, no longer on the premises. Fortunately it was a copy and I still have the original. When I raised the matter, the head of IT told me "that was an old program and not compatible with the new OS". He didn't seem to know (or care) how to install legacy programs.
Just a few examples of how the IT department stokes up ire, at least in one company.
A company where I work a few days a month recently upgraded its computers, switching to Windows 7. I came back from vacation to find a shiny new computer waiting for me. Then it was impossible to log on to the network. As I'm not there very often, maybe I'd forgotten the password. Or the keyboard was changed (I use US layout on a French physical keyboard, everyone else in the company uses French keyboard layout), so I tried various combinations for quite a while. The ITdepartment were all in a meeting, so I spent another hour asking around. Some people thought there was a default password, but weren't sure what it was. It transpired that all the passwords had been changed while I had been away! No one in the IT dept had thought it necessary to let me know. Or even let my co-workers know.
Then, changing the computer without taking any account of my assorted downloaded files, installed programmes and Internet bookmarks. Not to mention the CD (needed on startup for one of the programs I use) that was still in the old PC, no longer on the premises. Fortunately it was a copy and I still have the original. When I raised the matter, the head of IT told me "that was an old program and not compatible with the new OS". He didn't seem to know (or care) how to install legacy programs.
Just a few examples of how the IT department stokes up ire, at least in one company.
I run into the same issue all the time, but from the other perspective. Prior to me taking over 1/2 of the 2-man IT department for my company (a company of approx 550 workers and 300+ users, with approx 280 PC's installed) it was pretty much a free-for-all where the IT department spent 99% of its time fixing all the malware issues of its users. I started here in 2009, and the OS of choice was still Win 2000, running on NT network. The main reason for this was two-fold: (1) The company not wanting to spend 50cents to upgrade, and (2) IT being overwhelmed with user issues. Within these short 3 years, I've managed to pull us out of this quagmuire by upgrading to new systems (running XP) for users, upgrading the servers (in progress), and now getting ready to upgrade again to windows 7. We had to do a 3-tiered upgrade, since 7 won't join to an NT domain. All of this, with absolutely 0 help from our users. In fact, in spite of our users. Don't get me started on how many times we've moved the same systems, installed them, then reinstalled them a 2nd, 3rd, and even 4th time, including wiring into the walls, etc. All because our users want the desk to be one way and then another. Most of our users, despite being daily users, can't remember a password for 3 logins in a row. Not to mention that most of the users that do remember the password because they never changed the default password from 10 years ago (thanks to NT). And yeah, many users have all kinds of crap installed on their systems because they had admin rights to do so. Needless to say, they're not installing anything anymore without us knowing it.
Don't forget the bad rap you get from your family when you are in IT. How many times will your wife give you a bad rap if you can't help out on the phone with a computer problem?
Wow..o.k i never thought someone would mentioned it..never to think these type of challenges only occured in my part of the Hemisphere..quite eye opening.
I agree a bit with numbers 6 and 10 but I think the other "reasons" only seem that way from IT's perspective. From the outside I think it's more like:
1. We are tech fascists, imprisoning their work and restricting access to everything.
2. We (esp. Operations) have no time to do anything for anyone besides executives.
3. We abuse our authority.
4. We make people periodically create/change impossible passwords and get upset when we find them written on stickies or forgotten again and again.
5. We take too long getting new solutions ready, even delivered with broken functionality.
6. When our centralized solutions break down, it stops EVERYone from doing their work.
7. The more our solutions fail, the quicker our respect drops.
8. We hand out cryptic DIY workarounds instead of fixes or automated workarounds.
9. We get into arguments explaining why we don't have time/priority to implement X that can go on as long as it would actually take to implement X.
10. We're trained to be good with technology, not with professional relationships.
Also a couple more "inside" reasons:
1. If people are afraid of or angry at the tech, they attribute it to us.
2. When people don't understand what we do and don't see improvements, they can become suspicious of us.
3. When the boss pays for one solution but the people using it would like another, we get stuck in the middle.
1. We are tech fascists, imprisoning their work and restricting access to everything.
2. We (esp. Operations) have no time to do anything for anyone besides executives.
3. We abuse our authority.
4. We make people periodically create/change impossible passwords and get upset when we find them written on stickies or forgotten again and again.
5. We take too long getting new solutions ready, even delivered with broken functionality.
6. When our centralized solutions break down, it stops EVERYone from doing their work.
7. The more our solutions fail, the quicker our respect drops.
8. We hand out cryptic DIY workarounds instead of fixes or automated workarounds.
9. We get into arguments explaining why we don't have time/priority to implement X that can go on as long as it would actually take to implement X.
10. We're trained to be good with technology, not with professional relationships.
Also a couple more "inside" reasons:
1. If people are afraid of or angry at the tech, they attribute it to us.
2. When people don't understand what we do and don't see improvements, they can become suspicious of us.
3. When the boss pays for one solution but the people using it would like another, we get stuck in the middle.
You are quite perceptive to see that the article was from an IT-centric viewpoint. I like your "user perspective" list. Thank you for a well thought out and on the mark post.
There is no denying you hit number one right on the head. So many people blame IT for placing restrictions on websites and what most people don't understand is you don't make the rules you implement what you are asked to do by your employer.
For example: kids and teachers at schools complain when sites are blocked, sites like facebook, but in this high school its students aren't allowed to access it or any email accounts. Students complain because they aren't allowed to access personal emails, but the school IT hasn't set up student email yet. It's been 8 years they have said they would and haven't.
For example: kids and teachers at schools complain when sites are blocked, sites like facebook, but in this high school its students aren't allowed to access it or any email accounts. Students complain because they aren't allowed to access personal emails, but the school IT hasn't set up student email yet. It's been 8 years they have said they would and haven't.
Opted to NOT provide student email accounts, for several reasons. (This was in 2000.)
* Hardware costs. With 25k+ students in the district, they would need a dedicated email server with a minimum of 100 GB of storage, 400 GB if they set the mailbox size to 100 MB.
* Admin costs. They estimated they would need four additional FTE to manage that many mail users: two on the help desk, and two in mail admin.
* Politics. The district was fighting to get a bond issue passed for a new high school, a new middle school, four new elementary schools, and a new football stadium. The board didn't want to lose that in a urinating competition over student email.
* Hardware costs. With 25k+ students in the district, they would need a dedicated email server with a minimum of 100 GB of storage, 400 GB if they set the mailbox size to 100 MB.
* Admin costs. They estimated they would need four additional FTE to manage that many mail users: two on the help desk, and two in mail admin.
* Politics. The district was fighting to get a bond issue passed for a new high school, a new middle school, four new elementary schools, and a new football stadium. The board didn't want to lose that in a urinating competition over student email.
Now-a-days, what student doesn't have at least an email account and a Facebook account? There are now several cloud email providers (Google and Microsoft among them) that will supply email accounts for organizations; with educational institutions receiving heavy discounts.
Providing basic email and calendaring is no longer expensive. Going with an outside provider also has the following benefits: professionally managed infrastructure, integration with mobile devices, constantly updated spam and virus detection and, last but not least, "plausible deniability", which means the schools aren't liable for what's coming in and going out of the students inboxes.
Or, schools can simply request that students have an email address, provided by their ISP, Google, Hotmail, Yahoo or any other provider. As long as they can accept SMPT email and calendar invites, there is no reason for schools to host their own email servers. Why pay for something when there are many vendors that will provide it for free?
There is one caveat with free: support is horrible. You either solve your own problems or you find someone to solve them for you. Support isn't much better with paid hosted email, but at least you have an 800 number to call.
Providing basic email and calendaring is no longer expensive. Going with an outside provider also has the following benefits: professionally managed infrastructure, integration with mobile devices, constantly updated spam and virus detection and, last but not least, "plausible deniability", which means the schools aren't liable for what's coming in and going out of the students inboxes.
Or, schools can simply request that students have an email address, provided by their ISP, Google, Hotmail, Yahoo or any other provider. As long as they can accept SMPT email and calendar invites, there is no reason for schools to host their own email servers. Why pay for something when there are many vendors that will provide it for free?
There is one caveat with free: support is horrible. You either solve your own problems or you find someone to solve them for you. Support isn't much better with paid hosted email, but at least you have an 800 number to call.
for exactly the first reasons you provide: What student doesn't have at least an email account and a Facebook account?
My teenage children only use email when they are forced to such as when registering to use a website. (and then they might use 10minutemail.com to register)
Most teenagers communicate through IM, SMS, Facebook, Google+, Skype, and Tumblr.
They probably don't want another email address provided by the school as it is just going to be one more thing they will have to remember to check.
I agree with Marc - schools should let cloud services provide email accounts. Although I don't thinkl they even need them.
Some computer savvy teachers in our city use forums to communicate with students and their parents.
Parents are interested in finding out what is going on in the school and for that our school system invested in an Instant Alert system which sends messages via SMS, telephone, and email. (report cards were issued on, there's a meeting on..., school is cancelled due to inclement, your child was marked absent, etc.) It's a very efficient system.
Most teenagers communicate through IM, SMS, Facebook, Google+, Skype, and Tumblr.
They probably don't want another email address provided by the school as it is just going to be one more thing they will have to remember to check.
I agree with Marc - schools should let cloud services provide email accounts. Although I don't thinkl they even need them.
Some computer savvy teachers in our city use forums to communicate with students and their parents.
Parents are interested in finding out what is going on in the school and for that our school system invested in an Instant Alert system which sends messages via SMS, telephone, and email. (report cards were issued on, there's a meeting on..., school is cancelled due to inclement, your child was marked absent, etc.) It's a very efficient system.
IT pros are too deep and love discussions or debates just for the sake of exploring a topic further. Many people simply want to get on with their day, and care about hypothetical discussions.
My view anyway.
My view anyway.
Particularly in privately held older shops with older owners and no external oversight, surrounded by an archeologically-layered array of legacy systems, the IT geek has no serious limitations or social restraints -- because s/he is almost totally insulated from the typical "consequences" of being anti-social, snide, sarcastic, and generally insulting. Which becomes a recipe for disaster when the person in question HAS no formal IT training, but has simply absorbed bits and pieces over time. Because THAT is when anyone who DOES have a clue becomes a dire threat to their precarious stability.
Yes, I have seen the Director of IT who was from canada who was there working in the Food & Beverage as a chef with no formal IT qualifications and knew bits and pieces and came to the position. He was a big big disastarous and had ego problems as boys who were qualified could solve problems which he could not.
Although I concur with many of the statements, I laughed out loud at number one and number 8. I don't know where the rest of you work, but the salaries in my area do not commiserate the education and experience - at all. Our budgets are the last to see more money. I literally watched a department have money added to their budget for "team building", which meant that the company paid for happy hour every Friday.
We may not be loved, but we chose our paths knowing the probability of this.
We may not be loved, but we chose our paths knowing the probability of this.
Karmagirl7 said: "salaries in my area do not commiserate the education and experience". Please check the meaning of "commiserate". It doesn't fit in this sentence. I'd say "salaries in my area do not reflect the education and experience"
"The salaries in my area are not commensurate with my education and experience." It's easy to commiserate with someone who's salary's not commensurate.....
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