I am sympathetic to these bad raps each of you must struggle with everyday. One of the systems I developed for Hughes replaced a full-time accounting clerk. It just so happens that I became good friends with her and even though I was told she would be placed elsewhere, I felt responsible for replacing her with my system. She moved before the project was completed, greatly easing my conscience.
Back in the days when my hair was short I had an official Hughes pocket protector. It was a convenient place to wear my badge. Of course that was about 25 years ago and things change. You don't see that many Hughes engineers with shirt, tie, crew cut and pocket protector these days.
The issues of control and trust of one's data to IT are important ones. With IT moving to the cloud, these issues will become even more important.
How old is IT now? It is no longer a baby, coddled at every moment. Opportunities are now harder to find. IT may have already entered the contentious teenage years.
As always, I will be popping in occasionally to answer any questions and add to the discussion when I have something intelligent to say.
Edit: Added missing word
Discussion on:
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and are not solely the domain of IT. With the exception of the term "geek", you can
fit those to others. Yes, I realize we like to perceive ourselves as being picked on,
but other professions do this as well, they all say "normal" people just don't understand
what it is we do!
But for brevity, I'll shoot down one of your "reasons"...quote
3: We try to do the impossible
A doctor wouldnt try to diagnose a patient over the phone and yet this is exactly what IT support personnel are expected to do every day. Were expected to diagnose and fix problems remotely over the phone with customers who know little or nothing about the problem."
Doctors? Really? Are you sure? Do you have ANY experience around any health care
facility? Didn't think so or you would not have used this example. Doctors, nurses,
and heck even lowly pharmacists such as myself are routinely answering phone
questions, asked to not only diagnose the problem but offer the cure, all without any
face to face exposure! In fact, this is so predominant that many clinics and doctor's
offices now will CHARGE A FEE for telephone renewals of medication orders, otherwise
known as "phone-in refills"!
Anyhow, as you can see, I wear several hats...I'll now let you go feel sorry for yourself
and your supposed "bad rap". Hmmm...in my pharmacy profession, "IT" are considered
"average, normal" people that don't have any idea what pharmacists do! Guess it's a
good thing I can change hats every now and again!
edited to add:
quote "As always, I will be popping in occasionally to answer any questions and add to the discussion when I have something intelligent to say. "
You can pop in more often, no need to wait for a blue moon!
(Just joking with you, hehe...but you left yourself open to that one!)
fit those to others. Yes, I realize we like to perceive ourselves as being picked on,
but other professions do this as well, they all say "normal" people just don't understand
what it is we do!
But for brevity, I'll shoot down one of your "reasons"...quote
3: We try to do the impossible
A doctor wouldnt try to diagnose a patient over the phone and yet this is exactly what IT support personnel are expected to do every day. Were expected to diagnose and fix problems remotely over the phone with customers who know little or nothing about the problem."
Doctors? Really? Are you sure? Do you have ANY experience around any health care
facility? Didn't think so or you would not have used this example. Doctors, nurses,
and heck even lowly pharmacists such as myself are routinely answering phone
questions, asked to not only diagnose the problem but offer the cure, all without any
face to face exposure! In fact, this is so predominant that many clinics and doctor's
offices now will CHARGE A FEE for telephone renewals of medication orders, otherwise
known as "phone-in refills"!
Anyhow, as you can see, I wear several hats...I'll now let you go feel sorry for yourself
and your supposed "bad rap". Hmmm...in my pharmacy profession, "IT" are considered
"average, normal" people that don't have any idea what pharmacists do! Guess it's a
good thing I can change hats every now and again!
edited to add:
quote "As always, I will be popping in occasionally to answer any questions and add to the discussion when I have something intelligent to say. "
You can pop in more often, no need to wait for a blue moon!
(Just joking with you, hehe...but you left yourself open to that one!)
I have experienced patients diagnosing themselves for simple, obvious maladys and getting a prescription over the phone. As long as the prescription can't be abused and can't hurt the patient the doctor will usually call in the prescription - i.e. you aren't aking for oxycontin. For anything more complex, the doctor gets temperature, blood pressure, pulse rate, blood work and other "vitals." One thing doctors aren't blamed for is running too few tests. With the risk of lawsuits, they can't afford to be wrong. It's one thing to get the diagnosis wrong on a machine but get a diagnosis wrong on a person and the "patient" can die.
"Hmmm...in my pharmacy profession, "IT" are considered "average, normal" people that don't have any idea what pharmacists do!"
Touche. But don't they really secretly think we are a little bit weird?
Blue moon? The full moon we had on Saturday, the 5th of May, is called a supermoon. Okay, I'm just having a bit of fun back at ya.
http://www.space.com/15540-supermoon-science-full-moon.html
"Hmmm...in my pharmacy profession, "IT" are considered "average, normal" people that don't have any idea what pharmacists do!"
Touche. But don't they really secretly think we are a little bit weird?
Blue moon? The full moon we had on Saturday, the 5th of May, is called a supermoon. Okay, I'm just having a bit of fun back at ya.
http://www.space.com/15540-supermoon-science-full-moon.html
I was on holiday in the UK and the assistant wanted to diagnose my daughter's condition on the phone. They do that to save NHS money and avoid unnecessary visits. We weren't even in an inner city area where they would have much pressure. She wasn't even eligible for free treatment and they couldn't even give us a Vat number so we could claim back on the travel insurance. In my experience Doctors are like lawyers and care less because they don't even profit from you getting better. Too few tests? In the UK they never test you for anything. In the rest of Europe they might give you a test and actually make a diagnosis. (I visit the UK because I go back to visit my parents and family.)
But you guys in the UK have the Doc Martins, can diagnose any problem 
I know not really, but love the show.
I know not really, but love the show.
I had to reply to jsargent and his negative comments about the British NHS. As a UK resident, I am VERY happy with the NHS. I had a lump on my groin so I went to my doctor and he diagnosed a hernia. He contacted a specialist at the local hospital who confirmed the diagnosis and then I was asked when I'd like the repair operation done. I chose a date and it was done on that date. I now have regular checkups of blood presure, cholesterol, blood sugar, urine analysis, etc. and I get called in if I leave it too long between checks. Jsargent must have been unlucky with his daughter's need for medical attention. I have an American friend who visits the UK annually and on the rare occasions she has used the NHS, she too has had nothing but praise for it.
someone of very low intelligence must have escaped from their
basement.
basement.
The individual who flagged these posts called them spam and off-topic.
Your response to the OP was topical and subsequent responses to that are within that context.
I'm not looking for the Delete button...
Your response to the OP was topical and subsequent responses to that are within that context.
I'm not looking for the Delete button...
That is an unfair comment. VAT is a sales tax - since treatment in the UK is free, doctors don't make sales and don't collect taxes. They spend their time treating patients instead.
You say your daughter was diagnosed over the phone. I take it that means you phoned a medical practitioner, as they would hardly decide to phone you. They would be irresponsible if they didn't try to make an initial diagnosis over the phone, in order to decide the best action. What do you expect - for them to send out an ambulance with sirens blaring even if your daughter had sprained her finger?
If you hadn't backed out, your daughter would have been treated in the appropriate place for her ailment. As a non-resident, you would have been charged for this, after treatment. Your insurance company - if it was competent - would know the system, and wouldn't ask for a VAT receipt.
Having been the subject of several hundred free tests under the NHS, I can assure you the statement "In the UK they never test you for anything" is without foundation. They don't just test, they cure too. What they don't do is help themselves to your cash when you are ill.
British people won't set foot in the USA - not even an airport stopover - unless we have millions in travel insurance. Even then, we are scared the insurers will find some way of avoiding paying out. We are only too aware that the US "health service" is "cash first, care afterwards". No cash, and you can go to the crematorium for all the doctors care.
Most British people don't regard that as a superior system - we think it barbaric.
You say your daughter was diagnosed over the phone. I take it that means you phoned a medical practitioner, as they would hardly decide to phone you. They would be irresponsible if they didn't try to make an initial diagnosis over the phone, in order to decide the best action. What do you expect - for them to send out an ambulance with sirens blaring even if your daughter had sprained her finger?
If you hadn't backed out, your daughter would have been treated in the appropriate place for her ailment. As a non-resident, you would have been charged for this, after treatment. Your insurance company - if it was competent - would know the system, and wouldn't ask for a VAT receipt.
Having been the subject of several hundred free tests under the NHS, I can assure you the statement "In the UK they never test you for anything" is without foundation. They don't just test, they cure too. What they don't do is help themselves to your cash when you are ill.
British people won't set foot in the USA - not even an airport stopover - unless we have millions in travel insurance. Even then, we are scared the insurers will find some way of avoiding paying out. We are only too aware that the US "health service" is "cash first, care afterwards". No cash, and you can go to the crematorium for all the doctors care.
Most British people don't regard that as a superior system - we think it barbaric.
You may not pay at time of service, but you do pay - through a very heavy tax structure..
Hello J Sargent. I have never visited a UK local health center. Your comments make me wonder how they justify their behavior with the Hippocratic Oath:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath
We may be heading OT so I will ask if IT professionals should have their own version of the Hippocratic Oath?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath
We may be heading OT so I will ask if IT professionals should have their own version of the Hippocratic Oath?
i used to believe like jsargent - I've lived in the US all my life, and have never been out of North America. My opinion was based mainly from stories worse than his, and the fact that "they can't possible provide free health care efficiently for an entire country - it HAS to be pure chaos". I imagined a situation similar to our county hospitals, where patients are hearded like cattle, and you're lucky if you get to see a doctor in 5 hours.
Then my daughter moved to London (she LOVES London!). She's been in the UK for almost two years (London and Newcastle), and has nothing but praise for the health system there.
I guess it depends on who you talk to...
Then my daughter moved to London (she LOVES London!). She's been in the UK for almost two years (London and Newcastle), and has nothing but praise for the health system there.
I guess it depends on who you talk to...
We have that as a service in Ontario as well, though it is staffed by nurses not doctors. But no one says call them instead of 911. It is for situations where you don't want to visit a doctor, or can't for whatever reason, and you need to know your options. They may direct you to a doctor, walk in clinic, ER or whatever. It does save money for the system, but also take non-urgent cases out of the workload, and everyone benefits. And you get faster service.
I used to have some idea. I mean, they took p-chem, organic, biochem, a little toxicology, a little microbiology and pathophysiology, keep up with synergistic and antagonistic combinations, extremely few are employed to do research... (A friend tutored one such student and the copies of the texts are stacked up within reach, along with a couple references...which I'm slllooowwly reading through to review my biochem. Have had relatives and friends who worked in hospitals -- managers, surgeons, other docs, nurses.)
They used to have to compound various things, hence one of the common symbols being a mortar and pestle.
But even in the hospitals, all we ever SEE them doing is counting brand-name pills from one container into another and dispensing pre-packaged injectibles. Some of the local ones with whom I've spoken (e.g. I knew a pharmacist who owned a chain, plus a few of those pharma students) say that a lot of their knowledge is only rarely used, and a lot of the job is marketing the non-pharma goods in their shops, and counting pills. It seems to me that the key part is being responsible for counting the right numbers of the right-sized/-dose pills for the right customer, and keeping them out of other people's hands.
But maybe appearances and what they tell me is off the mark.
The starting salaries are much higher for the pharmacists, and the unemployment rates lower. The unemployment rates for dentists are about the lowest in the BLS quarterly reports; those for legislators and judges are generally very low, but show a bit of volatility; while actors have the worst unemployment rates I recall -- commonly 25%-55%.
They used to have to compound various things, hence one of the common symbols being a mortar and pestle.
But even in the hospitals, all we ever SEE them doing is counting brand-name pills from one container into another and dispensing pre-packaged injectibles. Some of the local ones with whom I've spoken (e.g. I knew a pharmacist who owned a chain, plus a few of those pharma students) say that a lot of their knowledge is only rarely used, and a lot of the job is marketing the non-pharma goods in their shops, and counting pills. It seems to me that the key part is being responsible for counting the right numbers of the right-sized/-dose pills for the right customer, and keeping them out of other people's hands.
But maybe appearances and what they tell me is off the mark.
The starting salaries are much higher for the pharmacists, and the unemployment rates lower. The unemployment rates for dentists are about the lowest in the BLS quarterly reports; those for legislators and judges are generally very low, but show a bit of volatility; while actors have the worst unemployment rates I recall -- commonly 25%-55%.
Yes, from the outside looking in, it appears that's all we do, move pills from
a large bottle to a small one...but just as in all professions, it's the things
that go on behind the scenes that are more important. Most pharmacists
check the prescription for errors, check for interactions and allergies,
check dose/strength. If problems are detected, we contact the prescriber
to determine alternate medications. All of this is done before we start
moving pills from the big bottle to the little one! Then there's all the insurance
processing that we have to do, most of it electronically now, at the pharmacy's
expense, again before we start counting pills.
Anyhow, just as in IT, there are innumerable things pharmacists SHOULD be
doing! I grew tired of the corporate pharmacy rat-race, decided to purchase
a little drugstore in a small town when the opportunity lended itself. I don't
make near the salary I could, but I enjoy life. I'm still "on call 24-7-365", but
instead of giving time to the company, I now get to give that time to my patients.
So, hopefully I've shed a little insight into what a pharmacist does...anyhow
what THIS pharmacist does!
a large bottle to a small one...but just as in all professions, it's the things
that go on behind the scenes that are more important. Most pharmacists
check the prescription for errors, check for interactions and allergies,
check dose/strength. If problems are detected, we contact the prescriber
to determine alternate medications. All of this is done before we start
moving pills from the big bottle to the little one! Then there's all the insurance
processing that we have to do, most of it electronically now, at the pharmacy's
expense, again before we start counting pills.
Anyhow, just as in IT, there are innumerable things pharmacists SHOULD be
doing! I grew tired of the corporate pharmacy rat-race, decided to purchase
a little drugstore in a small town when the opportunity lended itself. I don't
make near the salary I could, but I enjoy life. I'm still "on call 24-7-365", but
instead of giving time to the company, I now get to give that time to my patients.
So, hopefully I've shed a little insight into what a pharmacist does...anyhow
what THIS pharmacist does!
So, you think someone from outside IT couldn't possibly have anything to add?
Is that it? Well, here's a newsflash for you! I was in IT when you weren't even
a wet dream in your daddy's nightmares! Grew tired of it, all the AIX, Unix...
so I decided to go another route.
Yes, you nameless coward...there are people in the world that have SUPERIOR
intellect to YOU! Go crawl back under your mattress in your momma's basement
and wrap the tinfoil tightly around your head...on second thought, just hang
yourself and put the rest of humanity out of our misery.
(Sorry about that TR...guess I got a tad riled up!)
Is that it? Well, here's a newsflash for you! I was in IT when you weren't even
a wet dream in your daddy's nightmares! Grew tired of it, all the AIX, Unix...
so I decided to go another route.
Yes, you nameless coward...there are people in the world that have SUPERIOR
intellect to YOU! Go crawl back under your mattress in your momma's basement
and wrap the tinfoil tightly around your head...on second thought, just hang
yourself and put the rest of humanity out of our misery.
(Sorry about that TR...guess I got a tad riled up!)
the call centers all over India, Pakistan, Poland and elsewhere that are doing exactly that. Large firms set these call centers up to avoid having local IT staff visit every problem, the non IT staff got used to it and just started assuming we could fix everything over the phone.
I'm not saying the call centers are a total waste, but I do believe they have hurt our chosen profession much more than they have helped it.
I'm not saying the call centers are a total waste, but I do believe they have hurt our chosen profession much more than they have helped it.
Reading this piece I heard so many familiar daily bells ring of clients demands for instantaneous fix form 50 miles away it made me smile! IT is often, but not always well paid however for this we have to achieve results faster than god creating the earth in 7 days, remotely! Isn't it amazing though how many of these issues we caused by the user in the first instance (a code 18 as we call it, i.e. the issue occurred 18 inches from the keyboard!) Though when you achieve miracles and resolve the issue quickly seldom does thanks follow!
All that said, we all love it or we wouldn't do it, there is a certain kick out of resolving issues others can't, so I an my team don't mind, we'll continue to do what we've always done and go the extra mile every time and make sure the client smiles, because whenever you don't, your just no good and greatly overpaid.
All that said, we all love it or we wouldn't do it, there is a certain kick out of resolving issues others can't, so I an my team don't mind, we'll continue to do what we've always done and go the extra mile every time and make sure the client smiles, because whenever you don't, your just no good and greatly overpaid.
Hello Phil.
Your comments made me smile. Thank you for sharing them.
Your comments made me smile.
Thank you for sharing them.
Well, love it ?, was exciting earlier in my career (over 30 years now), got to really do research when working on projects. was not real training or certifications for new technology back then, you either could grasp it and learn it or not. These are the real IT old school professionals. Now we are just task monkeys, and wishing I had started that other business wanted to long time ago when had the chance. I stay in this field only because I know it very well and make decent money.
One bad rap I can identify with, paid too much.
OK, I keep trying to say something but it all seems offensive, but going to say this anyway, there are those who can grasp it (it meaning anything or IT) and those who can not.
Seems those who can not get paid as much these days and not knowing it as well then gives the entire profession a bad rap.
There, said it
One bad rap I can identify with, paid too much.
OK, I keep trying to say something but it all seems offensive, but going to say this anyway, there are those who can grasp it (it meaning anything or IT) and those who can not.
Seems those who can not get paid as much these days and not knowing it as well then gives the entire profession a bad rap.
There, said it
Maybe where you are, but not where I am. End user support is the worst-paid area of IT (not that most IT "professionals" consider the screw-turners as IT). After adjusting for inflation, I'm making today almost exactly what I made when I first retired from the USAF. In fact, after adjusting for inflation, most end user support jobs in this area are offering less than what I started at in 1999.
Yeah Nick, it's the same for IT support here - not great. Programmers, DBAs System Analysts and managers do quite well though.
While my take home pay is very reasonable, on an hourly basis, in previous positions, I made about the same as a manager at McDonalds.
In previous positions (my current position is quite reasonable), it was not unusual to work 7 days a week (come to think it, I do that now), logging 80-90 hours per week. I especially enjoyed the weeks where I had 40 hours of meetings and/or travel, then an additional 40-50 hours of actual work; while fielding several 2 am "emergencies" a week.
Hm.... same hourly rate as a fast-food manager, 100 hours of training (usually self education) a year, a few certifications a year, learning new languages or technologies every couple of years.... I can't think of many industries where you have the same load.
Medicine is similar (my cousin is a cardiologist), but after her residency, she was presented with this precious gift. I think they call it "a life"
In previous positions (my current position is quite reasonable), it was not unusual to work 7 days a week (come to think it, I do that now), logging 80-90 hours per week. I especially enjoyed the weeks where I had 40 hours of meetings and/or travel, then an additional 40-50 hours of actual work; while fielding several 2 am "emergencies" a week.
Hm.... same hourly rate as a fast-food manager, 100 hours of training (usually self education) a year, a few certifications a year, learning new languages or technologies every couple of years.... I can't think of many industries where you have the same load.
Medicine is similar (my cousin is a cardiologist), but after her residency, she was presented with this precious gift. I think they call it "a life"
I'm getting paid a living wage to do something I very much enjoy doing. Would I like to get more? Who wouldn't?
My problem is not with the rate of pay, but with the common assumption that, because I'm a hardware tech, my knowledge is somehow less valuable than that of the programmers and DBAs. Not to mention the public assumption that, as "the computer guy", I'm getting the same 'big bucks' as all those other IT people...
My problem is not with the rate of pay, but with the common assumption that, because I'm a hardware tech, my knowledge is somehow less valuable than that of the programmers and DBAs. Not to mention the public assumption that, as "the computer guy", I'm getting the same 'big bucks' as all those other IT people...
But hey, those aren't my numbers. They are a summary of all IT and Mathematics jobs as collected by the United States Labor Statistics, Occupational Employment and Wages --- May 2011. Click on the link in the article and you can see the breakdown by grouped profession. I can understand why you feel badly about being lumped with the occupations with more generous salaries. This site has the details:
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/archives/ocwage_03272012.htm
Computer support specialists supposedly have a 2011 mean annual wage of $51,820. As a comparison, Information security analysts, web developers, and computer network architects have an annual mean wage of $81,670.
It's not just support specialists that may be getting the short shrift. I have a special kindred with help desk analysts who need to know a lot of technical facts but are paid little for that knowledge.
It's a matter of perspective and relativity as well. $51,820 sounds good from where I am sitting but I can see that it might not look so good from your perspective. Of course, that number sounds good assuming that I am working on average 50 or less hours a week.
Edit: Fixed stupid copy and paste (???) error
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/archives/ocwage_03272012.htm
Computer support specialists supposedly have a 2011 mean annual wage of $51,820. As a comparison, Information security analysts, web developers, and computer network architects have an annual mean wage of $81,670.
It's not just support specialists that may be getting the short shrift. I have a special kindred with help desk analysts who need to know a lot of technical facts but are paid little for that knowledge.
It's a matter of perspective and relativity as well. $51,820 sounds good from where I am sitting but I can see that it might not look so good from your perspective. Of course, that number sounds good assuming that I am working on average 50 or less hours a week.
Edit: Fixed stupid copy and paste (???) error
I don't expect to be paid the same in South Carolina as I would expect to be paid in New York, California, or even Texas.
That mean is interesting and has me wondering exactly what jobs (and for who) are included in the "computer support specialist" category. I strongly suspect subcategories of "end user" and "big iron" in that category.
That mean is interesting and has me wondering exactly what jobs (and for who) are included in the "computer support specialist" category. I strongly suspect subcategories of "end user" and "big iron" in that category.
It's all about location, location, location. Fortunately, unlike your home, you can move your skills.
I've been in IT since 1978 and although the pay is reasonable, I'm not paid as well as many salesmen or managers. I enjoy IT and don't want to be a salesman or a manager and the salary is certainly adequate for me. However, if I were 25 years old with a wife and family, a student loan to repay and a mortgage I'd be really struggling. I'm certainly not paid anywhere near what some lawyers, doctors and dentists are paid, let alone bankers and their questionable bonuses. No, working in IT is not a way to get rich unless you're in one of the relatively few top jobs.
I'm with JohnOfStony: Lots of "attaboy"s (great praise for minor things, no praise for great and difficult achievements), a few "That's amazing! How did you ever figure that out!?", few bux, less and less employer investment in training. I'm not seeing any signs of high compensation in the BLS or NACE numbers, either.
It doesn't matter what the reality is. The perception is that IT folks are highly paid. Even when the high pay is a matter of not being able to calculate pay rates correctly!
Someone who gets the whole perception thing. Analytical thinkers typically take too many statement too literally and only accept facts as reality.
My recent experience shows how an IT head can make pretty much every mistake.
A company where I work a few days a month recently upgraded its computers, switching to Windows 7. I came back from vacation to find a shiny new computer waiting for me. Then it was impossible to log on to the network. As I'm not there very often, maybe I'd forgotten the password. Or the keyboard was changed (I use US layout on a French physical keyboard, everyone else in the company uses French keyboard layout), so I tried various combinations for quite a while. The ITdepartment were all in a meeting, so I spent another hour asking around. Some people thought there was a default password, but weren't sure what it was. It transpired that all the passwords had been changed while I had been away! No one in the IT dept had thought it necessary to let me know. Or even let my co-workers know.
Then, changing the computer without taking any account of my assorted downloaded files, installed programmes and Internet bookmarks. Not to mention the CD (needed on startup for one of the programs I use) that was still in the old PC, no longer on the premises. Fortunately it was a copy and I still have the original. When I raised the matter, the head of IT told me "that was an old program and not compatible with the new OS". He didn't seem to know (or care) how to install legacy programs.
Just a few examples of how the IT department stokes up ire, at least in one company.
A company where I work a few days a month recently upgraded its computers, switching to Windows 7. I came back from vacation to find a shiny new computer waiting for me. Then it was impossible to log on to the network. As I'm not there very often, maybe I'd forgotten the password. Or the keyboard was changed (I use US layout on a French physical keyboard, everyone else in the company uses French keyboard layout), so I tried various combinations for quite a while. The ITdepartment were all in a meeting, so I spent another hour asking around. Some people thought there was a default password, but weren't sure what it was. It transpired that all the passwords had been changed while I had been away! No one in the IT dept had thought it necessary to let me know. Or even let my co-workers know.
Then, changing the computer without taking any account of my assorted downloaded files, installed programmes and Internet bookmarks. Not to mention the CD (needed on startup for one of the programs I use) that was still in the old PC, no longer on the premises. Fortunately it was a copy and I still have the original. When I raised the matter, the head of IT told me "that was an old program and not compatible with the new OS". He didn't seem to know (or care) how to install legacy programs.
Just a few examples of how the IT department stokes up ire, at least in one company.
I run into the same issue all the time, but from the other perspective. Prior to me taking over 1/2 of the 2-man IT department for my company (a company of approx 550 workers and 300+ users, with approx 280 PC's installed) it was pretty much a free-for-all where the IT department spent 99% of its time fixing all the malware issues of its users. I started here in 2009, and the OS of choice was still Win 2000, running on NT network. The main reason for this was two-fold: (1) The company not wanting to spend 50cents to upgrade, and (2) IT being overwhelmed with user issues. Within these short 3 years, I've managed to pull us out of this quagmuire by upgrading to new systems (running XP) for users, upgrading the servers (in progress), and now getting ready to upgrade again to windows 7. We had to do a 3-tiered upgrade, since 7 won't join to an NT domain. All of this, with absolutely 0 help from our users. In fact, in spite of our users. Don't get me started on how many times we've moved the same systems, installed them, then reinstalled them a 2nd, 3rd, and even 4th time, including wiring into the walls, etc. All because our users want the desk to be one way and then another. Most of our users, despite being daily users, can't remember a password for 3 logins in a row. Not to mention that most of the users that do remember the password because they never changed the default password from 10 years ago (thanks to NT). And yeah, many users have all kinds of crap installed on their systems because they had admin rights to do so. Needless to say, they're not installing anything anymore without us knowing it.
Don't forget the bad rap you get from your family when you are in IT. How many times will your wife give you a bad rap if you can't help out on the phone with a computer problem?
Wow..o.k i never thought someone would mentioned it..never to think these type of challenges only occured in my part of the Hemisphere..quite eye opening.
I agree a bit with numbers 6 and 10 but I think the other "reasons" only seem that way from IT's perspective. From the outside I think it's more like:
1. We are tech fascists, imprisoning their work and restricting access to everything.
2. We (esp. Operations) have no time to do anything for anyone besides executives.
3. We abuse our authority.
4. We make people periodically create/change impossible passwords and get upset when we find them written on stickies or forgotten again and again.
5. We take too long getting new solutions ready, even delivered with broken functionality.
6. When our centralized solutions break down, it stops EVERYone from doing their work.
7. The more our solutions fail, the quicker our respect drops.
8. We hand out cryptic DIY workarounds instead of fixes or automated workarounds.
9. We get into arguments explaining why we don't have time/priority to implement X that can go on as long as it would actually take to implement X.
10. We're trained to be good with technology, not with professional relationships.
Also a couple more "inside" reasons:
1. If people are afraid of or angry at the tech, they attribute it to us.
2. When people don't understand what we do and don't see improvements, they can become suspicious of us.
3. When the boss pays for one solution but the people using it would like another, we get stuck in the middle.
1. We are tech fascists, imprisoning their work and restricting access to everything.
2. We (esp. Operations) have no time to do anything for anyone besides executives.
3. We abuse our authority.
4. We make people periodically create/change impossible passwords and get upset when we find them written on stickies or forgotten again and again.
5. We take too long getting new solutions ready, even delivered with broken functionality.
6. When our centralized solutions break down, it stops EVERYone from doing their work.
7. The more our solutions fail, the quicker our respect drops.
8. We hand out cryptic DIY workarounds instead of fixes or automated workarounds.
9. We get into arguments explaining why we don't have time/priority to implement X that can go on as long as it would actually take to implement X.
10. We're trained to be good with technology, not with professional relationships.
Also a couple more "inside" reasons:
1. If people are afraid of or angry at the tech, they attribute it to us.
2. When people don't understand what we do and don't see improvements, they can become suspicious of us.
3. When the boss pays for one solution but the people using it would like another, we get stuck in the middle.
You are quite perceptive to see that the article was from an IT-centric viewpoint. I like your "user perspective" list. Thank you for a well thought out and on the mark post.
There is no denying you hit number one right on the head. So many people blame IT for placing restrictions on websites and what most people don't understand is you don't make the rules you implement what you are asked to do by your employer.
For example: kids and teachers at schools complain when sites are blocked, sites like facebook, but in this high school its students aren't allowed to access it or any email accounts. Students complain because they aren't allowed to access personal emails, but the school IT hasn't set up student email yet. It's been 8 years they have said they would and haven't.
For example: kids and teachers at schools complain when sites are blocked, sites like facebook, but in this high school its students aren't allowed to access it or any email accounts. Students complain because they aren't allowed to access personal emails, but the school IT hasn't set up student email yet. It's been 8 years they have said they would and haven't.
Opted to NOT provide student email accounts, for several reasons. (This was in 2000.)
* Hardware costs. With 25k+ students in the district, they would need a dedicated email server with a minimum of 100 GB of storage, 400 GB if they set the mailbox size to 100 MB.
* Admin costs. They estimated they would need four additional FTE to manage that many mail users: two on the help desk, and two in mail admin.
* Politics. The district was fighting to get a bond issue passed for a new high school, a new middle school, four new elementary schools, and a new football stadium. The board didn't want to lose that in a urinating competition over student email.
* Hardware costs. With 25k+ students in the district, they would need a dedicated email server with a minimum of 100 GB of storage, 400 GB if they set the mailbox size to 100 MB.
* Admin costs. They estimated they would need four additional FTE to manage that many mail users: two on the help desk, and two in mail admin.
* Politics. The district was fighting to get a bond issue passed for a new high school, a new middle school, four new elementary schools, and a new football stadium. The board didn't want to lose that in a urinating competition over student email.
Now-a-days, what student doesn't have at least an email account and a Facebook account? There are now several cloud email providers (Google and Microsoft among them) that will supply email accounts for organizations; with educational institutions receiving heavy discounts.
Providing basic email and calendaring is no longer expensive. Going with an outside provider also has the following benefits: professionally managed infrastructure, integration with mobile devices, constantly updated spam and virus detection and, last but not least, "plausible deniability", which means the schools aren't liable for what's coming in and going out of the students inboxes.
Or, schools can simply request that students have an email address, provided by their ISP, Google, Hotmail, Yahoo or any other provider. As long as they can accept SMPT email and calendar invites, there is no reason for schools to host their own email servers. Why pay for something when there are many vendors that will provide it for free?
There is one caveat with free: support is horrible. You either solve your own problems or you find someone to solve them for you. Support isn't much better with paid hosted email, but at least you have an 800 number to call.
Providing basic email and calendaring is no longer expensive. Going with an outside provider also has the following benefits: professionally managed infrastructure, integration with mobile devices, constantly updated spam and virus detection and, last but not least, "plausible deniability", which means the schools aren't liable for what's coming in and going out of the students inboxes.
Or, schools can simply request that students have an email address, provided by their ISP, Google, Hotmail, Yahoo or any other provider. As long as they can accept SMPT email and calendar invites, there is no reason for schools to host their own email servers. Why pay for something when there are many vendors that will provide it for free?
There is one caveat with free: support is horrible. You either solve your own problems or you find someone to solve them for you. Support isn't much better with paid hosted email, but at least you have an 800 number to call.
for exactly the first reasons you provide: What student doesn't have at least an email account and a Facebook account?
My teenage children only use email when they are forced to such as when registering to use a website. (and then they might use 10minutemail.com to register)
Most teenagers communicate through IM, SMS, Facebook, Google+, Skype, and Tumblr.
They probably don't want another email address provided by the school as it is just going to be one more thing they will have to remember to check.
I agree with Marc - schools should let cloud services provide email accounts. Although I don't thinkl they even need them.
Some computer savvy teachers in our city use forums to communicate with students and their parents.
Parents are interested in finding out what is going on in the school and for that our school system invested in an Instant Alert system which sends messages via SMS, telephone, and email. (report cards were issued on, there's a meeting on..., school is cancelled due to inclement, your child was marked absent, etc.) It's a very efficient system.
Most teenagers communicate through IM, SMS, Facebook, Google+, Skype, and Tumblr.
They probably don't want another email address provided by the school as it is just going to be one more thing they will have to remember to check.
I agree with Marc - schools should let cloud services provide email accounts. Although I don't thinkl they even need them.
Some computer savvy teachers in our city use forums to communicate with students and their parents.
Parents are interested in finding out what is going on in the school and for that our school system invested in an Instant Alert system which sends messages via SMS, telephone, and email. (report cards were issued on, there's a meeting on..., school is cancelled due to inclement, your child was marked absent, etc.) It's a very efficient system.
IT pros are too deep and love discussions or debates just for the sake of exploring a topic further. Many people simply want to get on with their day, and care about hypothetical discussions.
My view anyway.
My view anyway.
Particularly in privately held older shops with older owners and no external oversight, surrounded by an archeologically-layered array of legacy systems, the IT geek has no serious limitations or social restraints -- because s/he is almost totally insulated from the typical "consequences" of being anti-social, snide, sarcastic, and generally insulting. Which becomes a recipe for disaster when the person in question HAS no formal IT training, but has simply absorbed bits and pieces over time. Because THAT is when anyone who DOES have a clue becomes a dire threat to their precarious stability.
Yes, I have seen the Director of IT who was from canada who was there working in the Food & Beverage as a chef with no formal IT qualifications and knew bits and pieces and came to the position. He was a big big disastarous and had ego problems as boys who were qualified could solve problems which he could not.
Although I concur with many of the statements, I laughed out loud at number one and number 8. I don't know where the rest of you work, but the salaries in my area do not commiserate the education and experience - at all. Our budgets are the last to see more money. I literally watched a department have money added to their budget for "team building", which meant that the company paid for happy hour every Friday.
We may not be loved, but we chose our paths knowing the probability of this.
We may not be loved, but we chose our paths knowing the probability of this.
Karmagirl7 said: "salaries in my area do not commiserate the education and experience". Please check the meaning of "commiserate". It doesn't fit in this sentence. I'd say "salaries in my area do not reflect the education and experience"
"The salaries in my area are not commensurate with my education and experience." It's easy to commiserate with someone who's salary's not commensurate.....
My guess is they wrote it on their handy dandy smartphone and the nefarious spellcheck troll worked its evil magic. If your comment is large it's da@n near impossible to scroll around and look for typos before posting. After-the-post editing is just as difficult.
Just sayin'...
Just sayin'...
I must gone through all the points listed in this article throughout my 20 plus years of working in the IT at different levels. Human beings are born with ego , some display it explicitly, some others in other ways etc. No one on the earn like another person who is not at the level to know more or to know what the other person does not know. This is the general resentment and bitterness which is faced by IT support and related person.
Like the article I have so much to share and it can continue pages into pages. But I end here.
Like the article I have so much to share and it can continue pages into pages. But I end here.
As an ex-IT pro of 20+ years, I agree with 1 or 2 of these points, but this one is just rediculous - graveyards are full of indispensable people. The most basic principal of economics (and physics) is that if there is a void it will be filled, quickly! So I would say that the biggest problem for 99% of IT-pro's is that they have an over-inflated feeling of self-importance, and hence their ego's are large and their personal (and often technical) skills limited.
I was speaking in the aggregate and not in the singular. I have mentioned in "10 things that define a true professional" that no one is irreplaceable:
"It is easy to find yourself in that comfortable place with 'unique' knowledge. If you are a hoarder of information and are of the opinion that all of the nuts you have squirreled away grant you immutable job security, think again. The harsh reality is that nobody is irreplaceable."
"It is easy to find yourself in that comfortable place with 'unique' knowledge. If you are a hoarder of information and are of the opinion that all of the nuts you have squirreled away grant you immutable job security, think again. The harsh reality is that nobody is irreplaceable."
Have to agree. IT is the last place where any money is spent on salary or anything else. Unless you work at Google, MS, Yahoo or etc. 1 and 8 simply aren't true.
We are often called upon to fix what the client perceives to be a simple solution, such as a problematic system that shuts down without warning. At a law office in town, I ran a one-week battle with such a system, trying re-image-dot-com and it fixed several issues, still shut down and continued with a collection of utilities, all of which fixed things and fixed nothing. Finally I used ProfWiz by Forensit to rip the system OUT of the domain and re-insert it with a new system name and THAT was the problem. Client was furious, lawyers are big babies when it comes to IT support anyway, but there was no FAULT POINT CAUSE telling me where the real problem was. And they get mad. They figure we cannot do our JOB and when they get a bill for hours, THEY GO NUTS. Micro$oft is not the most helpful when it comes to error reporting etiher and you can usually bet to have problems on Thursday when it is 48 hours after patch release Tuesday.
I've known guys who, when a horrendous problem turned up, were able to keep the customers happy and patient.
When I see a catastrophic problem, i tend to say, "Oh, man. You've got a catastrophic problem. This will take a while.", and then the customers get all in a tizzy and remain unhappy after I've worked through to getting it back in shape and taken measures to keep them from doing it, again.
One way to overcome the expectation to do things without having the necessary info is to joke with the customer about cranking up your "psychotic powers" to be able to imagine what they're seeing on a system you've never used, they're exact set-up, etc. Then you get less resistance when you have to ask, What do you see in this part of the screen?... and a lot fewer "nothing" answers, when what they mean is "Nothing significant to me."
As the managers cut back on stocking us with current docs, and we had to beg for hand-me-downs, and the quality of docs (e-docs and paper) vendors turned out dropped, it got worse and worse. But the trickiest issues were cultural -- people who dropped the F-bomb 2-3 times in every sentence creating friction with the hardware repair guy who was raised to say "sir" and "ma'am" as often; the ones who wanted to tell you their life stories before getting 'round to the specifics of their tech problems (Yes, but what WAS the last thing you'd been doing before you noticed the problem?), and the folks who needed to talk about the weather and how the flowers were blooming for a few minutes while you had 3 other customers and 1 sys guy on hold before getting to his issues. Most of the time you just have to go with it until they run through their personal programming.
SW product development is much better... if you can manage to discover one and get through the humongous barriers to such a real job these days.
When I see a catastrophic problem, i tend to say, "Oh, man. You've got a catastrophic problem. This will take a while.", and then the customers get all in a tizzy and remain unhappy after I've worked through to getting it back in shape and taken measures to keep them from doing it, again.
One way to overcome the expectation to do things without having the necessary info is to joke with the customer about cranking up your "psychotic powers" to be able to imagine what they're seeing on a system you've never used, they're exact set-up, etc. Then you get less resistance when you have to ask, What do you see in this part of the screen?... and a lot fewer "nothing" answers, when what they mean is "Nothing significant to me."
As the managers cut back on stocking us with current docs, and we had to beg for hand-me-downs, and the quality of docs (e-docs and paper) vendors turned out dropped, it got worse and worse. But the trickiest issues were cultural -- people who dropped the F-bomb 2-3 times in every sentence creating friction with the hardware repair guy who was raised to say "sir" and "ma'am" as often; the ones who wanted to tell you their life stories before getting 'round to the specifics of their tech problems (Yes, but what WAS the last thing you'd been doing before you noticed the problem?), and the folks who needed to talk about the weather and how the flowers were blooming for a few minutes while you had 3 other customers and 1 sys guy on hold before getting to his issues. Most of the time you just have to go with it until they run through their personal programming.
SW product development is much better... if you can manage to discover one and get through the humongous barriers to such a real job these days.
It may or may not happen where you work, but where I work, and where I have been, many geeks have a need to be "the man" or "the woman" among non-geeks, perhaps because the mystique or praise floats their boat. However, when they could be sharing tips and tricks, geek to geek, to make all geeks' lives easier, some are as apt to "Neener neener neener! You didn't know that!" as they are to help and simply share the knowledge wealth. Many years ago I had some gentleman get all up in arms because I merely asked about how he was setting up my sister-in-law's business network. I was told that the "expert" doing the network setup was an MS Access DBA (a fairytale made up to add fluff to a resume, or zeroes to a salary, picking on naive bosses with cash), and I should render propers. (Not sure how that imparted network credentials.) I still laugh at that one, Access DBA, yeah right.... I went shopping! Another time I really needed some Outlook calendar help and I was told I should do it myself! I guess the line of "reasoning" was "if he can do one thing, he can do another, and besides I am jealous of him anyway." Hey, if you are going to take the Benjamins to do the job, then simply do the job. Quit posing and start cooperating, life is tough enough!
I beg to differ on number 5, "We offer technical support and not personal service." Maybe in your company you're the cold, distant, ivory tower guru; but in my corporation, if you're not personalizing each service call, you're going to be out of here before the end of the year, if not the 90 day intro period. That includes making in person office calls, not just running the Help Desk phones. We're not just Information Technology, we are Information Services.
We a pretty much done with number 7, "We???re seen as a threat to the average worker???s job." Most of the jobs that can be automated, have been. Sure, there will be more, but the conversion curve has flatted back out. The next big dump will be when decent AI becomes cheap and readily available, and merges with Analytics. But managers will still need people to wade through that information and help them make sense of it. Even IBM's Watson can't do that yet, or any time in the near future.
We a pretty much done with number 7, "We???re seen as a threat to the average worker???s job." Most of the jobs that can be automated, have been. Sure, there will be more, but the conversion curve has flatted back out. The next big dump will be when decent AI becomes cheap and readily available, and merges with Analytics. But managers will still need people to wade through that information and help them make sense of it. Even IBM's Watson can't do that yet, or any time in the near future.
I am having trouble in over thinking number one. Yes maybe the US gets paid a lot of money, but remember other countries too hey, we get paid under of what we already know and do
Great list.. Since many of these issues are outside of IT's control, I wish the author had recommended strategies for improving IT's image.
How about "10 things that IT pros can do to improve their image?" I am not sure that I can come up with 10 things, but I've thought that before and somehow found that the ideas will come with a little bit of effort. I can't make any promises, the final choice is outside my control, but I can pass on the idea. It is a good one and I always appreciate new article ideas. Thanks!
IMHO, the root problem is that Users and Developers represent two quite different cultures which have a hard time understanding each other. This lack of communication often leads to fear, frustration, and other negativity that rarely seems to be addressed in a positive way.
For the past several years, my job title has been "Solutions Architect", but what I really am is a "Translator". Much of job involves working with users to get complete, detailed requirements specs that reflect the users' environment, designing a high-level applications architecture, then reviewing subsequent detailed design and test plans. Along the way, I have some influence on release scope, schedule, and resources. Hopefully, the delivered systems actually meet the users' needs and the managers' imperatives. Users tend to see me as the Developer; Developers tend to see me as a User. I have to play both roles.
It's my experience that very few shops have anyone (or enough of them) who can act as translators between the worlds. The result is systems that: (1) don't do what the users need and can run in the operating environment; (2) don't come in anywhere close to projected schedule and budget; (3) have serious problems with usability, reliability, maintainability, and all the other "ilities" that characterize a good product.
Being a Translator is not an easy job. I could fill several pages with stories of clueless users and managers, several more with stories of idiot developers, and yet more with stories of crappy software and tech support I've suffered through. To put up with this takes a fairly broad background in systems analysis and design, some coding and testing experience, and miscellaneous experience in several technical support roles. It also takes a willingness to engage with users to learn what it is they really do and need, the humility to realize you'll never know as much as they do about their jobs, and the willingness to ask dumb questions (in a clever way) until you get solid answers. Think about the entire complexity of the development lifecycle, from initial business needs to deployed software, and you'll realize all the places the chain can be broken. Yet, organizations rarely seem to value the job of Translator, and educational institutions rarely seem to focus on it.
So, until the IT profession and users both focus on bridging the culture gap and finding people who can do it, we'll continue to build crappy software and create more angry frustrated users.
(A couple of additional notes: Re #7, it's a symptom of modern management that staff who are replaced by automation are almost always laid off, rather than viewed as assets who could help grow the business in other ways. Re #3 and 4, "impossible" covers a lot of ground, but all too often we agree to attempt to build what we know to be impossible, or design things that are impossible to maintain, or otherwise say "Yes" when we should say "No, but how about this alternative".)
For the past several years, my job title has been "Solutions Architect", but what I really am is a "Translator". Much of job involves working with users to get complete, detailed requirements specs that reflect the users' environment, designing a high-level applications architecture, then reviewing subsequent detailed design and test plans. Along the way, I have some influence on release scope, schedule, and resources. Hopefully, the delivered systems actually meet the users' needs and the managers' imperatives. Users tend to see me as the Developer; Developers tend to see me as a User. I have to play both roles.
It's my experience that very few shops have anyone (or enough of them) who can act as translators between the worlds. The result is systems that: (1) don't do what the users need and can run in the operating environment; (2) don't come in anywhere close to projected schedule and budget; (3) have serious problems with usability, reliability, maintainability, and all the other "ilities" that characterize a good product.
Being a Translator is not an easy job. I could fill several pages with stories of clueless users and managers, several more with stories of idiot developers, and yet more with stories of crappy software and tech support I've suffered through. To put up with this takes a fairly broad background in systems analysis and design, some coding and testing experience, and miscellaneous experience in several technical support roles. It also takes a willingness to engage with users to learn what it is they really do and need, the humility to realize you'll never know as much as they do about their jobs, and the willingness to ask dumb questions (in a clever way) until you get solid answers. Think about the entire complexity of the development lifecycle, from initial business needs to deployed software, and you'll realize all the places the chain can be broken. Yet, organizations rarely seem to value the job of Translator, and educational institutions rarely seem to focus on it.
So, until the IT profession and users both focus on bridging the culture gap and finding people who can do it, we'll continue to build crappy software and create more angry frustrated users.
(A couple of additional notes: Re #7, it's a symptom of modern management that staff who are replaced by automation are almost always laid off, rather than viewed as assets who could help grow the business in other ways. Re #3 and 4, "impossible" covers a lot of ground, but all too often we agree to attempt to build what we know to be impossible, or design things that are impossible to maintain, or otherwise say "Yes" when we should say "No, but how about this alternative".)
You have it EXACTLY right! I don't know whether we carry our own weird ego believing these things - probably so. But it has seemed to me from the very beginning of my strange involvement in IT (I tend to be on the fence between the geeks and the users) that what's MOST needed in this world is the Translator. The one who REALLY understands both sides of these issues, whether or not he or she can actually ADDRESS the issues in a useful way. The ones who, if They would only let Us, could ultimately make it all better. And generally, when we try to talk about it everyone's eyes glaze over and both worlds think that we are actually the LEAST needed of all.
A large part of my job is acting as the translator between highly competent biologists and IT folks. Their only problem is that they often speak different languages. It certainly helps that I have experience in both fields.
I find myself in meetings saying things like, "What she is looking for is a system that..." and "What he means is he can build a database that can..."
I never say, "That is impossible." to either party.
What I do say is, "With enough resources, just about anything is possible. However, before we start spending money, let's look at the systems we have and see how we can apply them to meet your needs."
I find myself in meetings saying things like, "What she is looking for is a system that..." and "What he means is he can build a database that can..."
I never say, "That is impossible." to either party.
What I do say is, "With enough resources, just about anything is possible. However, before we start spending money, let's look at the systems we have and see how we can apply them to meet your needs."
to the laid off from automation thing. When you read the vendor stuff for their automated software tools, they always gloss it over by saying that it "frees up your workers to do more meaningful stuff that helps the bottom line", etc. When we all know it is more about cutting "expenses".
You hit the nail on the head, and I firmly believe this is pretty much the crux of the problem. This necessary translation is not just about the terminology either. It's also a translation of how one thinks and how they are able to communicate those thoughts. Each group has its own special skills and if they're very different how can anyone expect the two groups to communicate well? No one in their right mind would put English speaking and Chinese speaking people in a room expect them to understand each other, how is IT-non-IT any different?
IT-business translators
IT-business translators
(Sorry, smartphone posting sucks...)
Effective IT-business translators are worth their weight in gold. If they do their job too well though everyone else will start to think it's easy and therefore not necessary.
I am also straddling that fence, where non-IT think I'm IT and IT seems to think I'm not. In my last job I was doing an IT job in a non-IT department. Even though I was good at translating for others I found it extremely difficult to communicate the technical issues to my non-IT superiors. Not a fun place to be.
Effective IT-business translators are worth their weight in gold. If they do their job too well though everyone else will start to think it's easy and therefore not necessary.
I am also straddling that fence, where non-IT think I'm IT and IT seems to think I'm not. In my last job I was doing an IT job in a non-IT department. Even though I was good at translating for others I found it extremely difficult to communicate the technical issues to my non-IT superiors. Not a fun place to be.
The real main reason is that IT people don't want to realize that IT does not bring any revenues to most companies, therefore IT people are an expense, yet most of them act like if the rest of the company owed them something. Those people that need your help are paying your salary, so get your head out of the clouds and help them.
You hear that all the time "IT does not make money for the company". Really? Don't think so. What about all those e-commerce sites, do you think a non-technical marketing guy put those together, wrote the software that brings in the new constomers via a link, making payments in just a second instead of mailing a check that takes days to get there and then may not clear? Face it, The BU ( Business Unit ) and IT are a team. IT dosen't just come out and reload your laptop, we are the ones that created the economy of scale that has BROUGHT IN MONEY to the company, we are the ones that created the software and infrustructure that enables you to do multilinked searchs in multiple databases in an instant for that customer that may bring in millions to your corporation, something that the BU simply could not do that long ago. What about Market Trading? To be frank, the traders from back in the day are no more, if you cannot write code that gives you an edge in your trading, you are getting pushed out - my neighbor retired because he could not keep up with the code writing traders that were coming into play. And lets don't even talk about companies like Amazon, Apples Itunes, Google, etc. Without IT they do not even exist, and to be quite honest, neither do the majority of companies nowadays. So remember IT and the BU are a TEAM. And don't forget it. And no I did not downvote you, I do not up and down vote.
fail to realize is that through automation and technical processes IT enables the company to be more productive hence make more money with the same resources. Business automation also allows for a more consistent end product.
Definitely disagree with you here, mostly in your mentality. It's true that it's not IT people who are getting the checks written to their companies, but try to get that check writing process happening without IT.
If you didn't have that man behind the curtain pulling those levers you wouldn't have that big shiny face that has captured everyone's attention and respect. I know I'm not going to be that dynamic shiny face and appreciate those who can be. Why is it so hard for shiny face man to appreciate how much IT does?
More mutual respect would go a long way, for both sides.
If you didn't have that man behind the curtain pulling those levers you wouldn't have that big shiny face that has captured everyone's attention and respect. I know I'm not going to be that dynamic shiny face and appreciate those who can be. Why is it so hard for shiny face man to appreciate how much IT does?
More mutual respect would go a long way, for both sides.
and never gotten an answer.
If IT is nothing more than a cost center, why do businesses use it?
I've also made the suggestion: If IT is so expensive, shut it down and go back to manual. See if you're still in business this time next year.
If IT is nothing more than a cost center, why do businesses use it?
I've also made the suggestion: If IT is so expensive, shut it down and go back to manual. See if you're still in business this time next year.
While I am a IT person my wife is not. All I hear from her is how they walk in like they own the place. Push her stuff off her desk and take over. Once the upgrade or repair is done they give two seconds of explanation of what went wrong or how to avoid it next time or how to use the new system. Then they are gone only to find that part of what they were suppose to fix is still not working or broken in a different way.
If it is not an emergency, IT staff should schedule an upgrade or repair with the user with an estimate of how long it is going to take. The user should make room for the IT person to work. The IT person should fix the problem and test it before he or she leaves and make sure that the user understands how to avoid that problem again.
I have to disagree with you about showing how to use the new system unless it is just a rudimentary training (such as how to log on).
It is the owning department that should provide training before the release of a new system and provide ongoing training for new staff. It should not be the responsibility of the IT Department unless the system is owned by the IT Department (such as a help desk system).
More often than not, the new system is owned by another deprtment (Finance, Manufacturing, Document Control, Maintenance, etc..) and as such they are responsible for training.
IT can help in a supporting role but we are not accountants, document managers or maintenance workers. We are system users just like our co-workers.
I have to disagree with you about showing how to use the new system unless it is just a rudimentary training (such as how to log on).
It is the owning department that should provide training before the release of a new system and provide ongoing training for new staff. It should not be the responsibility of the IT Department unless the system is owned by the IT Department (such as a help desk system).
More often than not, the new system is owned by another deprtment (Finance, Manufacturing, Document Control, Maintenance, etc..) and as such they are responsible for training.
IT can help in a supporting role but we are not accountants, document managers or maintenance workers. We are system users just like our co-workers.
In my shop the first question is "when is convenient for me to fix your problem". The last question is "did this fix your issue" after walking through the failing process with the user.
On the other hand I've driven two hours to a site for a scheduled visit to find out that the user didn't have the problem anymore and didn't feel the need to call and cancel the appointment.
I've scheduled equipment refreshes and arrived onsite to discover that the user thought it was ITs responsibility to clean off their desk/monitor/CPU.
I've received calls 20 minutes to 5PM in which a frantic user desperately needs assistance. Upon arrival at their office they pick up their stuff and leave with a "well it's 5 Oclock, that presentation I deleted better be there tomorrow morning!"
On the other hand I've driven two hours to a site for a scheduled visit to find out that the user didn't have the problem anymore and didn't feel the need to call and cancel the appointment.
I've scheduled equipment refreshes and arrived onsite to discover that the user thought it was ITs responsibility to clean off their desk/monitor/CPU.
I've received calls 20 minutes to 5PM in which a frantic user desperately needs assistance. Upon arrival at their office they pick up their stuff and leave with a "well it's 5 Oclock, that presentation I deleted better be there tomorrow morning!"
At my company IT salaries are average at best. We are considered a necessary evil. Our budgets are not the first to get approved either. It takes longer for us to get new equipment and software. Example: Office 2007 came out in 2006 but our company didn't START using it until 2009.
The "too well paid" argument may work well in Silicon Valley and metropolitan areas (above the "technician" level, anyway), but in more rural settings, there's a major divide between needing IT and PAYING IT. For those of us who live and work in these settings, it can be quite difficult to be properly compensated for our level of knowledge and expertise. I have been in IT for a number of years now, and with the significant initiatives I've been involved in (major contract negotiation, overseeing all aspects of a nearly year-long, company-wide software initiative that affected all lines of service, up-coming SAN project), I'm barely making today what I SHOULD have been making 5 years ago, and I still don't have the raise I was promised 2 years agobased on all the project-level work I've done and continue to do. I hardly think my situation is unique either, since I've spoken with several other IT shops in my industry who are understaffed, overworked, and underpaid nearly across the board. This may be a down economy, but in industries where the proliferation of continued IT adoption is vital to the growth and economic health of those industries, you'd think management would be more cognisant of that. Alas, no.
"earn more than all other professions" -- really?
A) I can think of a slew of other professionals earning more than IT.
B) For those in IT who do get a decent salary, I would say they deserve it. Certainly, many of those in IT who do NOT get a decent salary SHOULD. How many of those other professions can configure a router/firewall, wrestle with thousands of lines of code, or remove spyware that refuses to budge?
Oh, and do any of them get calls in the middle of the night because of some system emergency?
As for "offer technical support and not personal service" --- well, first, that's our job - to get them up and running as quickly as possible and then help the next person who's job is equally as important. Second, I beg to differ - many of us do offer "personal service". Many of the "issues" I've dealt with have been the result of the user hitting the wrong key accidentally or doing something they didn't mean to because they were under stress. This usually comes out after a "therapy" session with them while resolving their issue. Not to mention the countless times I've offered technical advice for their home computers (what should I buy? what is RAM and do I need it? how much memory do I need? how do I get rid of this virus? how do I install.....)
Enough of my ranting. I'm sure others have a few things they can add.
A) I can think of a slew of other professionals earning more than IT.
B) For those in IT who do get a decent salary, I would say they deserve it. Certainly, many of those in IT who do NOT get a decent salary SHOULD. How many of those other professions can configure a router/firewall, wrestle with thousands of lines of code, or remove spyware that refuses to budge?
Oh, and do any of them get calls in the middle of the night because of some system emergency?
As for "offer technical support and not personal service" --- well, first, that's our job - to get them up and running as quickly as possible and then help the next person who's job is equally as important. Second, I beg to differ - many of us do offer "personal service". Many of the "issues" I've dealt with have been the result of the user hitting the wrong key accidentally or doing something they didn't mean to because they were under stress. This usually comes out after a "therapy" session with them while resolving their issue. Not to mention the countless times I've offered technical advice for their home computers (what should I buy? what is RAM and do I need it? how much memory do I need? how do I get rid of this virus? how do I install.....)
Enough of my ranting. I'm sure others have a few things they can add.
This is a zero sum argument:
'How many of those other professions can configure a router/firewall, wrestle with thousands of lines of code, or remove spyware that refuses to budge? '
How many IT professionals can write a marketing plan, design a widget, build a airplane, do the accounts, write a long term business strategy plan, cure a sick patient?
As for your point about nobody else getting midnight calls to fix a system emergency, who do you think called you to report the fault? What about doctors, nurses, even lawyers who get called out in the middle of the night for an actual emergency, not just a technical problem?
'How many of those other professions can configure a router/firewall, wrestle with thousands of lines of code, or remove spyware that refuses to budge? '
How many IT professionals can write a marketing plan, design a widget, build a airplane, do the accounts, write a long term business strategy plan, cure a sick patient?
As for your point about nobody else getting midnight calls to fix a system emergency, who do you think called you to report the fault? What about doctors, nurses, even lawyers who get called out in the middle of the night for an actual emergency, not just a technical problem?
There's always someone who wants to add another and here I am.
I've headed up IT in may organisations and I would say that the culture of the organisation has a massive impact on this area.. One organisation was quite big ( $2b turnover, 650 employees), I sat on the main Board and had the full support and trust in what IT did. Everything that was IT related went through IT and the reputation of my department was sky high. Life was good.
The other company was significantly smaller ($100m, 150 staff) a family run business with silo mentality and I reported to the Finance Director. The Board were IT-phobic and were quite happy for users to bring in their own applications but then complained when integration was slow or the application didn't perform. iT was seen as a hindrance. Life was crap.
Believe me, I did try to turn things round through total transparency and attempts at building reputations but it was a lost cause.
Bottom line is that top-down trust and support is vital.
I've headed up IT in may organisations and I would say that the culture of the organisation has a massive impact on this area.. One organisation was quite big ( $2b turnover, 650 employees), I sat on the main Board and had the full support and trust in what IT did. Everything that was IT related went through IT and the reputation of my department was sky high. Life was good.
The other company was significantly smaller ($100m, 150 staff) a family run business with silo mentality and I reported to the Finance Director. The Board were IT-phobic and were quite happy for users to bring in their own applications but then complained when integration was slow or the application didn't perform. iT was seen as a hindrance. Life was crap.
Believe me, I did try to turn things round through total transparency and attempts at building reputations but it was a lost cause.
Bottom line is that top-down trust and support is vital.
IMHO, you've identified another root cause of poor IT experience - clueless and/or weak top enterprise management. Who pays the bills? Who creates expectations for IT success and provides the necessary resources? Who can demand that business units and IT collaborate instead of fight? Who needs the vision to see IT as a profit center or a core component of enterprise efficiency? Who can demand that project sponsors learn how to estimate schedules and budgets in ways that are realistic for IT? Who can demand that sponsors stop insisting on the impossible? Who can refuse to let self-centered gurus run the world? I could go on, but you all get the picture. I don't expect upper management to know much about technology, but I do expect them to know their own job in terms of an automation vision, an ability to prioritize, the willingness to listen to reasonable professional opinion, the skill to calculate an accurate return on IT investment, the understanding that business units and IT are equally responsible for success or failure, and a host of other factors that can only be lead from the top. In short, unprofessional upper management rarely gets professional IT results - you can never do a better job than your client lets you do.
I respectfully disagree with a lot that is here and focus it on one item that can be addresses rather easily:
1. Elitist attitudes - We all know a "know-it-all" who HAS to prove he is smarter than EVERYONE else in the room. Far too often you find this behavior in the IT field. I have had bosses like this and co-workers like this. The sad part is that, yes, they are smart; however, they don't know everything but make the most assertive effort to know it. In my earlier years I was like this and realized it got me absolutely NO WHERE. In fact, in today's corporate environment it is likely to leave you unemployed. You see, IT has gone personal and it is time that the negative stereotype of "geek" be abolished forever. I personally HATE being called a geek because I don't consider myself one and there are many others I know who are in IT but aren't "geeks" by the stereotypical definition.
I don't go home and read about the latest gadget or play around for hours with technology...I go home and work out, relax and train for my tours and also I still do lab things out in my networking lab when I need to and when I have time. I have learned that being personable gets me much farther in my career than being a know-it-all geek. I have worked with VARs my entire life and I can say this to be true: You can be the smartest and most brilliant person on Earth; however, if the client HATES you, they will NEVER do business with you. You could be as dumb as a rock and if the customer likes you they will work with you time and time again.
It is amazing just how the power of being "personable" or "friendly" can get you places you could never have imagined. You can still be the brilliant IT person who gets the job done; however, learn to be personable and understand that the typical person doesn't care about the underlying circuits to their iPhone or about anything else in the matter. Connect with people and you'll have better opportunities and little to no negative stereotype placed against you.
1. Elitist attitudes - We all know a "know-it-all" who HAS to prove he is smarter than EVERYONE else in the room. Far too often you find this behavior in the IT field. I have had bosses like this and co-workers like this. The sad part is that, yes, they are smart; however, they don't know everything but make the most assertive effort to know it. In my earlier years I was like this and realized it got me absolutely NO WHERE. In fact, in today's corporate environment it is likely to leave you unemployed. You see, IT has gone personal and it is time that the negative stereotype of "geek" be abolished forever. I personally HATE being called a geek because I don't consider myself one and there are many others I know who are in IT but aren't "geeks" by the stereotypical definition.
I don't go home and read about the latest gadget or play around for hours with technology...I go home and work out, relax and train for my tours and also I still do lab things out in my networking lab when I need to and when I have time. I have learned that being personable gets me much farther in my career than being a know-it-all geek. I have worked with VARs my entire life and I can say this to be true: You can be the smartest and most brilliant person on Earth; however, if the client HATES you, they will NEVER do business with you. You could be as dumb as a rock and if the customer likes you they will work with you time and time again.
It is amazing just how the power of being "personable" or "friendly" can get you places you could never have imagined. You can still be the brilliant IT person who gets the job done; however, learn to be personable and understand that the typical person doesn't care about the underlying circuits to their iPhone or about anything else in the matter. Connect with people and you'll have better opportunities and little to no negative stereotype placed against you.
Hello Robert. I never have liked the terms geek, dweeb or nerd. For "geeks" I prefer the term analytical thinkers. I'll let you in on a little secret. Whenever I use the term "geek" in an article I am trying to be whimsical, tongue in cheek or just light-hearted.
However, one mystery remains: Why do geeks always come in pairs when they are portrayed on TV?
From a storytelling perspective? Because everyone needs someone who understands their jargon with whom to have a normal conversation, or the non-tech audience won't be able to relate to them on a human level. Making them an eccentric "mad scientist" type who can't communicate meaningfully with anyone tends to relegate a character to the level of "plot device" when they're not the eccentric loner who's the focus of everything (like Dr. Frankenstein might be), and if you write a techy character who communicates seamlessly with a non-techy ensemble, he or she doesn't register as a geek to most people -- just that person who happens to know how to use a computer. Basically the same reason Statler and Waldorf were a pair in the Muppets. Having a like-minded friend facilitates dialogue and makes it easier for the audience to like the character, despite authors wanting to present them as someone non-geeks don't "get".
To also add, clients on the managerial side are lazy. They come looking shortcuts for their work. Applications that are on their desktop, they not use and come to IT generate reports they can run themselves. We are IT we are not gonna know the actual balances of an account. We will generate based on knowledge of using an application. Onus is not on IT to know details of transactions.
I was told in an IT meeting by the Network Narcissist (darling of one of the two IT managers married to each other), that I was too old to understand the technology (in a government agency in front of a manager with all those wonderful diversity classes on age discrimination). He could only do it with support from his own manager.
When you are the sole support on an IBM Mainframe z/OS System as the (one and only) Systems Programmer to support Payroll / Personnel for an entire County, on call 24 by 6 (Sundays were used for Systems Maintenance and I wasn't on call that day). Sleepless nights, alone, long hours and paid what the Win Server guys were paid (less actually).
That wasn't it though. It was being treated with utter contempt by the IT Management as being irrelevant in the scheme of things. The disdain of my peers coupled with being hampered from doing my job by my supervisor FOR POLITICAL REASONS was miserable. The top officials in the County were against the Mainframe and believed it was going to be easy to either outsource it or go without software maintenance.
After a disasterous effort to outsource it (for more money than just keeping it in house), they decided to "freeze" the system for 5 years and SURELY they could completely replace it without any more software maintenance (I had to daily maintain the disk space and insure there was enough room to run production). Since they didn't need me any more, they RIFfed me.
And two years later, the new tape drives are sitting on the floor not hooked up and they haven't gotten the new disk drives (free from a federal energy grant). They really aren't one shred closer to replacing it and the time to replace it is now seven years.
In this case (and I suspect many others), it is IT Management working in concert with upper agency / corporate management, with silly ideas about how easy it is to have reliable safe systems to do your core work replaced with spiffy new "Open Source" or outsourced applications, who are the core of many of the problems.
As a parting shot, I would like to remind you all of my former IT Director's final words to me: "I don't know what I am doing". That about says it all.
The problems brought up here: Have you ever considered that it is not necessarily the rank and file IT worker (although they can certainly aggravate the problem) who are behind the perception issues?
Maybe it's management. Really stupid bad management.
When you are the sole support on an IBM Mainframe z/OS System as the (one and only) Systems Programmer to support Payroll / Personnel for an entire County, on call 24 by 6 (Sundays were used for Systems Maintenance and I wasn't on call that day). Sleepless nights, alone, long hours and paid what the Win Server guys were paid (less actually).
That wasn't it though. It was being treated with utter contempt by the IT Management as being irrelevant in the scheme of things. The disdain of my peers coupled with being hampered from doing my job by my supervisor FOR POLITICAL REASONS was miserable. The top officials in the County were against the Mainframe and believed it was going to be easy to either outsource it or go without software maintenance.
After a disasterous effort to outsource it (for more money than just keeping it in house), they decided to "freeze" the system for 5 years and SURELY they could completely replace it without any more software maintenance (I had to daily maintain the disk space and insure there was enough room to run production). Since they didn't need me any more, they RIFfed me.
And two years later, the new tape drives are sitting on the floor not hooked up and they haven't gotten the new disk drives (free from a federal energy grant). They really aren't one shred closer to replacing it and the time to replace it is now seven years.
In this case (and I suspect many others), it is IT Management working in concert with upper agency / corporate management, with silly ideas about how easy it is to have reliable safe systems to do your core work replaced with spiffy new "Open Source" or outsourced applications, who are the core of many of the problems.
As a parting shot, I would like to remind you all of my former IT Director's final words to me: "I don't know what I am doing". That about says it all.
The problems brought up here: Have you ever considered that it is not necessarily the rank and file IT worker (although they can certainly aggravate the problem) who are behind the perception issues?
Maybe it's management. Really stupid bad management.
As I indicated in another post, upper management is ultimately responsible for IT success or failure. In my career, I've worked on several successful projects and about an equal number of failures. The failures were NEVER due solely to technology (face it, IT is rarely on the absolute cutting edge of computer technology, and when it is that's an indicator of management's decision to take that risk). Every serious failure I've participated in had a significant management component somewhere along the way.
I liked the article as it has many truths, although salary is still weak.
Another situation that gives us a bad rap are those that came before us that were not all that bright. Be it when a person deals with a tech that barely speaks english working on their personal computer, to the IT person they've dealt with in the past at work that didn't know what they were doing. This experience leaves people with a bad taste in their mouths and they try to take it out on the next guy, no matter how good he is.
Another situation that gives us a bad rap are those that came before us that were not all that bright. Be it when a person deals with a tech that barely speaks english working on their personal computer, to the IT person they've dealt with in the past at work that didn't know what they were doing. This experience leaves people with a bad taste in their mouths and they try to take it out on the next guy, no matter how good he is.
While there is much to agree and disagree with in this article, for the greater good of our employers, IT organizations throughout the world cannot stand apart from our employers' businesses. We shouldn't facilitate an "us vs. them" dialog. We exist solely to enhance the ability of our employers to deliver value to our shareholders and customers. We need to understand *our* business needs so that we can be relevant to the solution. We need to express solutions in terms of relative benefits and risks, and not just say "no" or scoff at those who are less technical. We need to be collaborators and educators.
Or great communicators. Or business analysts. Whatever you want to call them. It's a critical and oft overlooked skill. If you surely would not expect your programmers and network people to easily switch jobs, expecting hard core IT folks to easily converse with everyone is foolhardy. Yes, everyone needs to hone basic interpersonal skills, some people will just have difficulty.
Put people with great interpersonal skills that have a decent concept of IT in strategic places. Have them attend ALL meetings between IT and other departments. Include them in IT meetings too, with the task of devil's advocate. Let them ask questions and answer them thoughtfully. They will help you understand business concerns and perceptions, avoid pitfalls AND put a good face on your group.
Put people with great interpersonal skills that have a decent concept of IT in strategic places. Have them attend ALL meetings between IT and other departments. Include them in IT meetings too, with the task of devil's advocate. Let them ask questions and answer them thoughtfully. They will help you understand business concerns and perceptions, avoid pitfalls AND put a good face on your group.
In my many years as technical support specialist, I found one simple thing that won people over. Although the morons in mgmt. preach, "You're here to provide support, not training," I found that attitude to be extremely counter-productive. Just showing people a couple of tricks can make you their hero forever. A few keyboard shortcuts, how to clean out temp internet files & cookies, how to use the format painter in Excel & Word - little things like this make people happy as hell! And what does it cost? Maybe 5-10 minutes. Taking a screen shot, copying/pasting it & printing it is no big deal, but I've seen people running around saying, "Look what Jerry showed me!" There are quite literally thousands of little tricks like these -- why not share them? You find people calling the help desk and asking for you by name! Of course, mgmt. frowns on that too. If you haven't found out yet, you soon will: your biggest enemy as a tech support person is mgmt! But you can't argue with sucess and increased productivity. Take care though: when layoff time comes, guess who gets to stay? You got it - the techs that followed the company line instead of doing the right thing. So there is a downside to being a good tech...
I agree with you that going the extra mile and showing someone a few quick tips will make you loved by your co-workers.
While it may be true that management does not appreciate that at your company, the opposite is true at mine.
Co-workers at my company tell management how helpful we have been and management remembers this in a positive way come bonus time.
While it may be true that management does not appreciate that at your company, the opposite is true at mine.
Co-workers at my company tell management how helpful we have been and management remembers this in a positive way come bonus time.
I always ask appreciative coworkers, "Don't tell me what a great job I'm doing, tell my boss."
Just the goodwill from these simple acts alone go a long way in improving people's opinions of IT. Most everyone appreciates a helpful tidbit. Plus, a person is much more likely to absorb and use stuff like this when given in bite sized pieces, esp. if they are intimidated by technology. This is how you can grow the self sufficient users you would love to have.
Another plus is that if you have a bad day they will be more understanding, since you have already established yourself as someone who helps them.
But inouyde (sp?) hit the nail on the head - make sure the users tell management how these tidbits have helped them do their jobs better. Management is all about metrics. This type of benefit is so hard to quantify. This is one way to do it.
Another plus is that if you have a bad day they will be more understanding, since you have already established yourself as someone who helps them.
But inouyde (sp?) hit the nail on the head - make sure the users tell management how these tidbits have helped them do their jobs better. Management is all about metrics. This type of benefit is so hard to quantify. This is one way to do it.
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