Discussion on:

10 reasons IT pros get a bad rap

I am sympathetic to these bad raps each of you must struggle with everyday. One of the systems I developed for Hughes replaced a full-time accounting clerk. It just so happens that I became good friends with her and even though I was told she would be placed elsewhere, I felt responsible for replacing her with my system. She moved before the project was completed, greatly easing my conscience.

Back in the days when my hair was short I had an official Hughes pocket protector. It was a convenient place to wear my badge. Of course that was about 25 years ago and things change. You don't see that many Hughes engineers with shirt, tie, crew cut and pocket protector these days.

The issues of control and trust of one's data to IT are important ones. With IT moving to the cloud, these issues will become even more important.

How old is IT now? It is no longer a baby, coddled at every moment. Opportunities are now harder to find. IT may have already entered the contentious teenage years.

As always, I will be popping in occasionally to answer any questions and add to the discussion when I have something intelligent to say.

Edit: Added missing word

and are not solely the domain of IT. With the exception of the term "geek", you can
fit those to others. Yes, I realize we like to perceive ourselves as being picked on,
but other professions do this as well, they all say "normal" people just don't understand
what it is we do!
But for brevity, I'll shoot down one of your "reasons"...quote
3: We try to do the impossible

A doctor wouldnt try to diagnose a patient over the phone and yet this is exactly what IT support personnel are expected to do every day. Were expected to diagnose and fix problems remotely over the phone with customers who know little or nothing about the problem."
Doctors? Really? Are you sure? Do you have ANY experience around any health care
facility? Didn't think so or you would not have used this example. Doctors, nurses,
and heck even lowly pharmacists such as myself are routinely answering phone
questions, asked to not only diagnose the problem but offer the cure, all without any
face to face exposure! In fact, this is so predominant that many clinics and doctor's
offices now will CHARGE A FEE for telephone renewals of medication orders, otherwise
known as "phone-in refills"!
Anyhow, as you can see, I wear several hats...I'll now let you go feel sorry for yourself
and your supposed "bad rap". Hmmm...in my pharmacy profession, "IT" are considered
"average, normal" people that don't have any idea what pharmacists do! Guess it's a
good thing I can change hats every now and again!
edited to add:
quote "As always, I will be popping in occasionally to answer any questions and add to the discussion when I have something intelligent to say. "

You can pop in more often, no need to wait for a blue moon!
(Just joking with you, hehe...but you left yourself open to that one!)

I have experienced patients diagnosing themselves for simple, obvious maladys and getting a prescription over the phone. As long as the prescription can't be abused and can't hurt the patient the doctor will usually call in the prescription - i.e. you aren't aking for oxycontin. For anything more complex, the doctor gets temperature, blood pressure, pulse rate, blood work and other "vitals." One thing doctors aren't blamed for is running too few tests. With the risk of lawsuits, they can't afford to be wrong. It's one thing to get the diagnosis wrong on a machine but get a diagnosis wrong on a person and the "patient" can die.

"Hmmm...in my pharmacy profession, "IT" are considered "average, normal" people that don't have any idea what pharmacists do!"

Touche. But don't they really secretly think we are a little bit weird?

Blue moon? The full moon we had on Saturday, the 5th of May, is called a supermoon. Okay, I'm just having a bit of fun back at ya.

http://www.space.com/15540-supermoon-science-full-moon.html

I was on holiday in the UK and the assistant wanted to diagnose my daughter's condition on the phone. They do that to save NHS money and avoid unnecessary visits. We weren't even in an inner city area where they would have much pressure. She wasn't even eligible for free treatment and they couldn't even give us a Vat number so we could claim back on the travel insurance. In my experience Doctors are like lawyers and care less because they don't even profit from you getting better. Too few tests? In the UK they never test you for anything. In the rest of Europe they might give you a test and actually make a diagnosis. (I visit the UK because I go back to visit my parents and family.)

But you guys in the UK have the Doc Martins, can diagnose any problem
I know not really, but love the show.

I had to reply to jsargent and his negative comments about the British NHS. As a UK resident, I am VERY happy with the NHS. I had a lump on my groin so I went to my doctor and he diagnosed a hernia. He contacted a specialist at the local hospital who confirmed the diagnosis and then I was asked when I'd like the repair operation done. I chose a date and it was done on that date. I now have regular checkups of blood presure, cholesterol, blood sugar, urine analysis, etc. and I get called in if I leave it too long between checks. Jsargent must have been unlucky with his daughter's need for medical attention. I have an American friend who visits the UK annually and on the rare occasions she has used the NHS, she too has had nothing but praise for it.

someone of very low intelligence must have escaped from their
basement.

The individual who flagged these posts called them spam and off-topic.

Your response to the OP was topical and subsequent responses to that are within that context.

I'm not looking for the Delete button...

That is an unfair comment. VAT is a sales tax - since treatment in the UK is free, doctors don't make sales and don't collect taxes. They spend their time treating patients instead.
You say your daughter was diagnosed over the phone. I take it that means you phoned a medical practitioner, as they would hardly decide to phone you. They would be irresponsible if they didn't try to make an initial diagnosis over the phone, in order to decide the best action. What do you expect - for them to send out an ambulance with sirens blaring even if your daughter had sprained her finger?
If you hadn't backed out, your daughter would have been treated in the appropriate place for her ailment. As a non-resident, you would have been charged for this, after treatment. Your insurance company - if it was competent - would know the system, and wouldn't ask for a VAT receipt.

Having been the subject of several hundred free tests under the NHS, I can assure you the statement "In the UK they never test you for anything" is without foundation. They don't just test, they cure too. What they don't do is help themselves to your cash when you are ill.
British people won't set foot in the USA - not even an airport stopover - unless we have millions in travel insurance. Even then, we are scared the insurers will find some way of avoiding paying out. We are only too aware that the US "health service" is "cash first, care afterwards". No cash, and you can go to the crematorium for all the doctors care.
Most British people don't regard that as a superior system - we think it barbaric.

You may not pay at time of service, but you do pay - through a very heavy tax structure..

Hello J Sargent. I have never visited a UK local health center. Your comments make me wonder how they justify their behavior with the Hippocratic Oath:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath

We may be heading OT so I will ask if IT professionals should have their own version of the Hippocratic Oath?

i used to believe like jsargent - I've lived in the US all my life, and have never been out of North America. My opinion was based mainly from stories worse than his, and the fact that "they can't possible provide free health care efficiently for an entire country - it HAS to be pure chaos". I imagined a situation similar to our county hospitals, where patients are hearded like cattle, and you're lucky if you get to see a doctor in 5 hours.

Then my daughter moved to London (she LOVES London!). She's been in the UK for almost two years (London and Newcastle), and has nothing but praise for the health system there.

I guess it depends on who you talk to...

We have that as a service in Ontario as well, though it is staffed by nurses not doctors. But no one says call them instead of 911. It is for situations where you don't want to visit a doctor, or can't for whatever reason, and you need to know your options. They may direct you to a doctor, walk in clinic, ER or whatever. It does save money for the system, but also take non-urgent cases out of the workload, and everyone benefits. And you get faster service.

I used to have some idea. I mean, they took p-chem, organic, biochem, a little toxicology, a little microbiology and pathophysiology, keep up with synergistic and antagonistic combinations, extremely few are employed to do research... (A friend tutored one such student and the copies of the texts are stacked up within reach, along with a couple references...which I'm slllooowwly reading through to review my biochem. Have had relatives and friends who worked in hospitals -- managers, surgeons, other docs, nurses.)

They used to have to compound various things, hence one of the common symbols being a mortar and pestle.

But even in the hospitals, all we ever SEE them doing is counting brand-name pills from one container into another and dispensing pre-packaged injectibles. Some of the local ones with whom I've spoken (e.g. I knew a pharmacist who owned a chain, plus a few of those pharma students) say that a lot of their knowledge is only rarely used, and a lot of the job is marketing the non-pharma goods in their shops, and counting pills. It seems to me that the key part is being responsible for counting the right numbers of the right-sized/-dose pills for the right customer, and keeping them out of other people's hands.

But maybe appearances and what they tell me is off the mark.

The starting salaries are much higher for the pharmacists, and the unemployment rates lower. The unemployment rates for dentists are about the lowest in the BLS quarterly reports; those for legislators and judges are generally very low, but show a bit of volatility; while actors have the worst unemployment rates I recall -- commonly 25%-55%.

Yes, from the outside looking in, it appears that's all we do, move pills from
a large bottle to a small one...but just as in all professions, it's the things
that go on behind the scenes that are more important. Most pharmacists
check the prescription for errors, check for interactions and allergies,
check dose/strength. If problems are detected, we contact the prescriber
to determine alternate medications. All of this is done before we start
moving pills from the big bottle to the little one! Then there's all the insurance
processing that we have to do, most of it electronically now, at the pharmacy's
expense, again before we start counting pills.
Anyhow, just as in IT, there are innumerable things pharmacists SHOULD be
doing! I grew tired of the corporate pharmacy rat-race, decided to purchase
a little drugstore in a small town when the opportunity lended itself. I don't
make near the salary I could, but I enjoy life. I'm still "on call 24-7-365", but
instead of giving time to the company, I now get to give that time to my patients.
So, hopefully I've shed a little insight into what a pharmacist does...anyhow
what THIS pharmacist does!

So, you think someone from outside IT couldn't possibly have anything to add?
Is that it? Well, here's a newsflash for you! I was in IT when you weren't even
a wet dream in your daddy's nightmares! Grew tired of it, all the AIX, Unix...
so I decided to go another route.
Yes, you nameless coward...there are people in the world that have SUPERIOR
intellect to YOU! Go crawl back under your mattress in your momma's basement
and wrap the tinfoil tightly around your head...on second thought, just hang
yourself and put the rest of humanity out of our misery.

(Sorry about that TR...guess I got a tad riled up!)

Reading this piece I heard so many familiar daily bells ring of clients demands for instantaneous fix form 50 miles away it made me smile! IT is often, but not always well paid however for this we have to achieve results faster than god creating the earth in 7 days, remotely! Isn't it amazing though how many of these issues we caused by the user in the first instance (a code 18 as we call it, i.e. the issue occurred 18 inches from the keyboard!) Though when you achieve miracles and resolve the issue quickly seldom does thanks follow!

All that said, we all love it or we wouldn't do it, there is a certain kick out of resolving issues others can't, so I an my team don't mind, we'll continue to do what we've always done and go the extra mile every time and make sure the client smiles, because whenever you don't, your just no good and greatly overpaid.

Hello Phil.

Your comments made me smile. Thank you for sharing them.

Maybe where you are, but not where I am. End user support is the worst-paid area of IT (not that most IT "professionals" consider the screw-turners as IT). After adjusting for inflation, I'm making today almost exactly what I made when I first retired from the USAF. In fact, after adjusting for inflation, most end user support jobs in this area are offering less than what I started at in 1999.

Yeah Nick, it's the same for IT support here - not great. Programmers, DBAs System Analysts and managers do quite well though.

While my take home pay is very reasonable, on an hourly basis, in previous positions, I made about the same as a manager at McDonalds.

In previous positions (my current position is quite reasonable), it was not unusual to work 7 days a week (come to think it, I do that now), logging 80-90 hours per week. I especially enjoyed the weeks where I had 40 hours of meetings and/or travel, then an additional 40-50 hours of actual work; while fielding several 2 am "emergencies" a week.

Hm.... same hourly rate as a fast-food manager, 100 hours of training (usually self education) a year, a few certifications a year, learning new languages or technologies every couple of years.... I can't think of many industries where you have the same load.

Medicine is similar (my cousin is a cardiologist), but after her residency, she was presented with this precious gift. I think they call it "a life"

I'm getting paid a living wage to do something I very much enjoy doing. Would I like to get more? Who wouldn't?

My problem is not with the rate of pay, but with the common assumption that, because I'm a hardware tech, my knowledge is somehow less valuable than that of the programmers and DBAs. Not to mention the public assumption that, as "the computer guy", I'm getting the same 'big bucks' as all those other IT people...