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Unless MS has a significant change in its philosophy, Windows-8 is not going to clear many of these hurtles. So, while Windows-8 may be somewhat successful on mobile ARM devices, Windows-7 will continue to prevail on laptops and desktops with those users needing keyboards and mice, i.e., business/enterprise/serious personal users.
... but rather due to their customers' demands that they don't change.
Don't get me wrong, Microsoft has made many mistakes over the years. In my opinion Microsoft's biggest mistake up to now has been sitting idle on the OS front for too long. Bill Gates made a pitch more than 11 years ago for tablet computing but quite literally didn't do a blasted thing to drive progress in that direction, letting WinXP ride as their best OS yet and letting it run essentially unchanged for almost 9 years. Yes, they did 'work' on something called Longhorn, but apparently they went about it so poorly that Vista at best used only pieces of Longhorn and when Vista got released it had almost no developer support or drivers; a very poor showing for supposedly 7 years of non-stop effort. Win7 had to come out just to battle the stigma Microsoft earned from that fiasco.
Now we come to Win8. Here, finally, is an attempt by Microsoft to truly move forward which may, in its way, be the culmination of the original Longhorn effort. Here is an OS meant to be used on touch-screen devices (which have been readily available for 5 years now) that should become a new paradigm for desktop as well as mobile computing. True, it still has its issues but the loudest complaints are from those who are too 'conservative' to recognize this. Just as Win7 has finally overcome the long-in-the-tooth XP, now Win7 has to fight the pro-Win7 inertia and users' resistance to change.
Don't get me wrong, Microsoft has made many mistakes over the years. In my opinion Microsoft's biggest mistake up to now has been sitting idle on the OS front for too long. Bill Gates made a pitch more than 11 years ago for tablet computing but quite literally didn't do a blasted thing to drive progress in that direction, letting WinXP ride as their best OS yet and letting it run essentially unchanged for almost 9 years. Yes, they did 'work' on something called Longhorn, but apparently they went about it so poorly that Vista at best used only pieces of Longhorn and when Vista got released it had almost no developer support or drivers; a very poor showing for supposedly 7 years of non-stop effort. Win7 had to come out just to battle the stigma Microsoft earned from that fiasco.
Now we come to Win8. Here, finally, is an attempt by Microsoft to truly move forward which may, in its way, be the culmination of the original Longhorn effort. Here is an OS meant to be used on touch-screen devices (which have been readily available for 5 years now) that should become a new paradigm for desktop as well as mobile computing. True, it still has its issues but the loudest complaints are from those who are too 'conservative' to recognize this. Just as Win7 has finally overcome the long-in-the-tooth XP, now Win7 has to fight the pro-Win7 inertia and users' resistance to change.
It is not a case of laptop and desktop users resisting change. The Metro UI and some other dubious features are just not designed for those form factors. It is smartphone/tablet oriented. So, while it will probably work fine on those mobile devices, on "stationary" devices it fails miserably until users pay the extra for touch-screen capability.
"Here is an OS meant to be used on touch-screen devices (which have been readily available for 5 years now) that should become a new paradigm for desktop as well as mobile computing."
I'll bite; what do I gain by adding touch capability to a desktop system? I'm a W7 user, running Office, an SAP client, web browsers, and a remote connectivity tool. Those applications are about 95% of my weekly computing use.
I'll bite; what do I gain by adding touch capability to a desktop system? I'm a W7 user, running Office, an SAP client, web browsers, and a remote connectivity tool. Those applications are about 95% of my weekly computing use.
All you gain is a screen that, minus cutting-edge self-clean capability, will be covered in fingerprints and skin-oil streaks in ten minutes of use.
And, oh yeah, a screen you can't use more than an arm-length away, and a keyboard you keep setting off by mistake as you let that arm down to read the screen...
And, oh yeah, a screen you can't use more than an arm-length away, and a keyboard you keep setting off by mistake as you let that arm down to read the screen...
The issue is not that MS is imposing changes on the users but that those changes are not advancements over the previous system. As others have said, Metro and forced full-screen on mobile displays indeed makes sense but it's not an improvement over the Explorer shell for non-touch devices.
The MS tablets failed because they tried to force a non-touch OS onto touch devices. Now they are forcing a touch OS onto non-touch devices as if making the mistake in the other direction will be the magic bean.
Change the UI in ways that are an improvement over past interfaces. Deliver more of those under the hood advancements they've been promising then pulling for each OS version. Why is my OS not using journalled de-duplicated file system already? Deliver more non-UI advancements (win7 backup is a very welcome improvement over previous).
Honestly, I'd love to welcome Win8. This is not a matter of fear of change but of the OS introducing things that hinder the user because MS doesn't want to provide a mobile and non-mobile UI choice.
The MS tablets failed because they tried to force a non-touch OS onto touch devices. Now they are forcing a touch OS onto non-touch devices as if making the mistake in the other direction will be the magic bean.
Change the UI in ways that are an improvement over past interfaces. Deliver more of those under the hood advancements they've been promising then pulling for each OS version. Why is my OS not using journalled de-duplicated file system already? Deliver more non-UI advancements (win7 backup is a very welcome improvement over previous).
Honestly, I'd love to welcome Win8. This is not a matter of fear of change but of the OS introducing things that hinder the user because MS doesn't want to provide a mobile and non-mobile UI choice.
Doesn't work in a lot of situations. My home PC is used for all media. When I'm watching a movie and want to check something online, I'll need to get out of the chair and walk to the screen to use the touch interface. This is going back to the 60' when TV remotes became available.
Currently, I can use my wireless KB and Mouse to operate the PC from across the room, what options will Win8 give me in my situation? It's a little ironic that having bought into the Windows paradigm and gone down the convergence route, MS are now doing what they can to make this impossible.
Currently, I can use my wireless KB and Mouse to operate the PC from across the room, what options will Win8 give me in my situation? It's a little ironic that having bought into the Windows paradigm and gone down the convergence route, MS are now doing what they can to make this impossible.
Surely you will just have a tablet or phone in your hand? It will control what is on the big screen. MS have just announced this type of thing at E3.
And how will other family members control it when my phone and I are out of the house?
I'm asking only for academic purposes; my TV isn't connected to a computer. However, 333239's post specifically mentioned a tablet and phone; neither have mice or keyboards.
presumably you have a remote for your regular TV. 
No one needs a tablet or a phone to control a plain vanilla tv although I can control my cable box (hence my TV) from my tablet or phone. - change channels, add/remove recordings, see what's on, etc..
I had fun changing the channels on my teenage son while I was in another room. It took him less than a minute to figure out it was me.
No one needs a tablet or a phone to control a plain vanilla tv although I can control my cable box (hence my TV) from my tablet or phone. - change channels, add/remove recordings, see what's on, etc..
I had fun changing the channels on my teenage son while I was in another room. It took him less than a minute to figure out it was me.
existing wireless kb and mouse - great - another MS rip off.
"Currently, I can use my wireless KB and Mouse to operate the PC from across the room, what options will Win8 give me in my situation?"
You can still use your keyboard and mouse.
Why do so many people think touch replaces the keyboard and the mouse?
You can still use your keyboard and mouse.
Why do so many people think touch replaces the keyboard and the mouse?
is figuring out what MS has changed for Metro vs. the way you're used to using a mouse in previous versions of Windows.
I'm sure there will be plenty of Metro tutorials available at the time of release.
There are quite a few available now.
There are quite a few available now.
sure. I send them a link and say, "Get back to me with questions when you finish this."
now require them to go out and do more training, something they don't want to do but it seems you're happy with forcing them to do, as is Microsoft.
I could get someone who is familiar with a GUI up to speed in 30 minutes - tops.
Here's the lesson plan.
1. Working with tiles
2. Getting to the desktop
3. Finding an application or file
It's really very simple.
Here's the lesson plan.
1. Working with tiles
2. Getting to the desktop
3. Finding an application or file
It's really very simple.
but for the average older home user they don't want to do any more training, they just want it to work the way it has worked before.
For the business user they don't want to lose each employee out of their normal work for 30 minutes to learn how to use, that's lost productivity. Thus the change is seen as a downgrade in productivity for many. You're talking about a cost of $5 to $50 per employee, depending upon their pay rate. Not justifiable to most.
For the business user they don't want to lose each employee out of their normal work for 30 minutes to learn how to use, that's lost productivity. Thus the change is seen as a downgrade in productivity for many. You're talking about a cost of $5 to $50 per employee, depending upon their pay rate. Not justifiable to most.
So Old people either stick with older OS'es or they have my mother call me to help them figure it out. And they pay me by making me a cake. It's a win win situation.
Corporate
We went through this when we moved from Win 3.1 to Win 95 to Win XP. We also went through it with Office 2007.
Frankly, all of the transitions reminded me of the "Y2K Crisis" - a lot of hot air and gnashing of teeth and then.............. nothing.
I did have some resistance from senior management over taking time (30 mins) to train users on Office 2007 but it was minimal and the users appreciated it. and so did senior management - eventually.
Corporate
We went through this when we moved from Win 3.1 to Win 95 to Win XP. We also went through it with Office 2007.
Frankly, all of the transitions reminded me of the "Y2K Crisis" - a lot of hot air and gnashing of teeth and then.............. nothing.
I did have some resistance from senior management over taking time (30 mins) to train users on Office 2007 but it was minimal and the users appreciated it. and so did senior management - eventually.
1. - Not all people who want stability and familiarity are old. There are many people who hate change. also, there are some people who have mental conditions like Aspergers where they can learn new things fast, but have major issues with learning any changes as the new stuff burns a track in their mind - it's the way they're wired.
2. - Corporate wise - the GUI used in Win 3, Win 3 for Groups, Win 95, Win 98, Win 2000 was 99% the same and the menus worked the same, even Win XP had an option to use the Win Classic look which was the same.
Word for Windows through to the Word in Office XP had the same look and basic menu operations. As did the other major Office products in the suite.
The W2K bit is a red herring as EVERYONE with half a brain new it was total BS as the dates displayed had squat to do with the way the machine code worked dates. Nearly all the machines that are facing the exact problem they stated are now out of use as they were all 286/386/486 processors with the shorter date-time memory allocation.
I know of some major international organisations that have totally stopped using Microsoft Office due to the ribbon as they could NOT afford the costs involved in everyone having to take time to learn the new layout. They now appreciate the huge cost saving in not having to pay the licence fees for the new systems. They now use a corporate set up image version of Libre Office that's so like Office 97 that the users can only tell the difference by the icon to start it.
3. Sure some people like change for the fun of it, but others do not. Win XP wanted to bring a new look, but had the old look ready for those that wanted - amazing hoe many went with the old look. But now MS are saying 'Stuff you, accept what we give you, or p**s off.' Well, people are saying give us what we, the paying public want, or we will p**s off and not buy your crap.
The sad point here is the predatory agreements Microsoft has with the major vendors means that the majority of the buying public will get almost no option to buy anything but Microsoft crap from the retail outlets.
2. - Corporate wise - the GUI used in Win 3, Win 3 for Groups, Win 95, Win 98, Win 2000 was 99% the same and the menus worked the same, even Win XP had an option to use the Win Classic look which was the same.
Word for Windows through to the Word in Office XP had the same look and basic menu operations. As did the other major Office products in the suite.
The W2K bit is a red herring as EVERYONE with half a brain new it was total BS as the dates displayed had squat to do with the way the machine code worked dates. Nearly all the machines that are facing the exact problem they stated are now out of use as they were all 286/386/486 processors with the shorter date-time memory allocation.
I know of some major international organisations that have totally stopped using Microsoft Office due to the ribbon as they could NOT afford the costs involved in everyone having to take time to learn the new layout. They now appreciate the huge cost saving in not having to pay the licence fees for the new systems. They now use a corporate set up image version of Libre Office that's so like Office 97 that the users can only tell the difference by the icon to start it.
3. Sure some people like change for the fun of it, but others do not. Win XP wanted to bring a new look, but had the old look ready for those that wanted - amazing hoe many went with the old look. But now MS are saying 'Stuff you, accept what we give you, or p**s off.' Well, people are saying give us what we, the paying public want, or we will p**s off and not buy your crap.
The sad point here is the predatory agreements Microsoft has with the major vendors means that the majority of the buying public will get almost no option to buy anything but Microsoft crap from the retail outlets.
I would also argue that using the keyboard it is faster in many situations if your hands are already on the keyboard.
I have always been a fan of keyboard shortcuts because that is where my hands are most when I am using a computer. - not on the mouse.
I have always been a fan of keyboard shortcuts because that is where my hands are most when I am using a computer. - not on the mouse.
to use the mouse instead of keyboard shortcuts and now they're walking away from easy mouse use, and THAT'S the point some of us are making. If people don't know the keyboard shortcuts because they're used to one or two easy mouse clicks and now have to do more than that, they won't like it - especially the silver haired surfers.
This is a lot like the change to ribbons in Office 2007 and 2010 - many functions were more mouse clicks away in the ribbons than they were in the menus. It's actually quicker and easier to use them using the keyboard shortcuts, if you know them or have the full list on hand. But few do.
This is a lot like the change to ribbons in Office 2007 and 2010 - many functions were more mouse clicks away in the ribbons than they were in the menus. It's actually quicker and easier to use them using the keyboard shortcuts, if you know them or have the full list on hand. But few do.
But we should have seen this coming - Both Vista and Windows 7 have the search for files and programs box on the start menu.
I got very used to finding my less frequently used programs through the search box rather than navigating Start > Programs > Accessories > etc. & my most frequently used programs were pinned to the taskbar since Vista. (same for Win 8)
So the time for me to adjust to the new OS was minimal.
I find the ribbons in Office 2007 & 2010 more intuitive than the old drop down menus. The icon approach is definitely more self-explanatory. I also use the quick access toolbar for faster access to common functions. It is similar to pinning stuff to the taskbar.
I think Microsoft has been slowly introducing us to Windows 8 if you took advantage of the new features in previous OS'es.
& I have been a silver haired surfer since I turned 35 - fifteen years ago.
I got very used to finding my less frequently used programs through the search box rather than navigating Start > Programs > Accessories > etc. & my most frequently used programs were pinned to the taskbar since Vista. (same for Win 8)
So the time for me to adjust to the new OS was minimal.
I find the ribbons in Office 2007 & 2010 more intuitive than the old drop down menus. The icon approach is definitely more self-explanatory. I also use the quick access toolbar for faster access to common functions. It is similar to pinning stuff to the taskbar.
I think Microsoft has been slowly introducing us to Windows 8 if you took advantage of the new features in previous OS'es.
& I have been a silver haired surfer since I turned 35 - fifteen years ago.
going through Win 95, Win 98, Win 98 SE, Win NT, Win 2000, Win ME, Win XP and made a set of changes in 2007 with Vista, went back a far way to the original classic look with Win 7 and now Win 8 jumps out to left field. I see that as a sudden and dramatic change.
After over a decade of using MS Office I found the way to the majority of commonly used items in the MSO 2007 Ribbon required more mouse clicks than the old menu system did. Yes, you can put them on the quick use tool bar, but many corporate system images lock those facilities out as they do NOT want the people messing with their systems. My introduction to MSO 2007 came on a tech college system that was locked down in such a way.
I'm not an official member of the silver surfer group yet, despite being in my late 50s but do look after a lot of people who are, and many are still using Win 98, even a few still using Win 3.11 on 486s and P1s. They pay me well to keep their systems running as their main motivation is they KNOW hoe to work this one.
After over a decade of using MS Office I found the way to the majority of commonly used items in the MSO 2007 Ribbon required more mouse clicks than the old menu system did. Yes, you can put them on the quick use tool bar, but many corporate system images lock those facilities out as they do NOT want the people messing with their systems. My introduction to MSO 2007 came on a tech college system that was locked down in such a way.
I'm not an official member of the silver surfer group yet, despite being in my late 50s but do look after a lot of people who are, and many are still using Win 98, even a few still using Win 3.11 on 486s and P1s. They pay me well to keep their systems running as their main motivation is they KNOW hoe to work this one.
but I keep trying to rest people's fears by saying that the old desktop is still there. It's only a tile click away. It is missing one big thing - the Start menu but with a few minutes of instruction, I can show them how to navigate the waters.
I'm not planning on moving my users to Win 8 any time soon. Heck, my users are still on XP for the most part because I haven't purchased a new computer in three years and XP works for what they do.
I even have some non-networked computers in the lab and manufacturing running Win NT 4, Win 2000 & DOS 6.2. We retired a Win 3.1 box last year so I am not averse to old technology if it works.
I am just not averse to new technology either.
My feeling about Win 8 is let people get used to it at home first. If I discover a need for Win 8 at work, then I'll deploy it to those who will benefit.
The new Microsoft Surface Win 8 tablets may be a solution for my Calibration and Metrology technicians for viewing electronic manuals, standard operating procedures, and accessing the Computerized Maintenance Management System while working in the cleanrooms.
The tablet and keyboard looks easy enough to keep clean, they can use the pen for screen navigation (touch doesn't work when wearing gloves), they don't have fans to suck in and blow out dust, and the applications the staff use are all browser based. hmmm
I'm not planning on moving my users to Win 8 any time soon. Heck, my users are still on XP for the most part because I haven't purchased a new computer in three years and XP works for what they do.
I even have some non-networked computers in the lab and manufacturing running Win NT 4, Win 2000 & DOS 6.2. We retired a Win 3.1 box last year so I am not averse to old technology if it works.
I am just not averse to new technology either.
My feeling about Win 8 is let people get used to it at home first. If I discover a need for Win 8 at work, then I'll deploy it to those who will benefit.
The new Microsoft Surface Win 8 tablets may be a solution for my Calibration and Metrology technicians for viewing electronic manuals, standard operating procedures, and accessing the Computerized Maintenance Management System while working in the cleanrooms.
The tablet and keyboard looks easy enough to keep clean, they can use the pen for screen navigation (touch doesn't work when wearing gloves), they don't have fans to suck in and blow out dust, and the applications the staff use are all browser based. hmmm
instruction and it should be possible to have right there and not one click away by making a simple choice to select it as a property.
1. Agreed, it's a take it or leave it ui. Personally, I think it's great. On the desktop, it's "ok" and I opt for desktop applications but it is nice to have access to the games. It kind of makes spending lazy time on the computer worthwhile again.
2. Samsung got it pretty close with their Series 7 line. If they include more power efficient x86 cpu's (I get around 4.5 hrs on a core i5), built-in LTE, shave a smidge of weight off and come out with a professional grade dock, the next version could replace my desktop offsetting the higher cost of x86 tablets.
3. Meh, iPad's the undisputed king of tablets right now pretty much just because. Good marketing, a decent OS and strong trending really helped to make them the "coke" of tablets. I can't tell you how many people have said "Oh, you have an iPad" and I have to correct them and say "No, it's a Windows Slate". Of course there's the "What's that?" and the follow up explanation but after a few minutes, people get the difference and see the value.
4. But I thought the "cloud" was the future? I'm sure there will be policies for Windows 8, not RT, to disable "Microsoft" account authentication so IT should be ok with it.
5. I'm expecting IT to view Windows RT as something different from the traditional laptop/workstation. It's not a candidate for true desktop replacement and at this point, will be highly resilient to viruses and the controls enforced on application installs by Microsoft will help to keep tight control. I'm not saying that Group Policy wouldn't be nice but that the things you would do with an RT device and it's expected usage lessen the relevance of this particular issue. Not completely though.
6. There are rumors that WP7 apps will be ported. Hopefully we'll find out more but the store at this time doesn't seem to have a way to filter for true Windows 8 applications vs WP7 emulated apps. Of course they wouldn't because that would expose their intentions.
7. I cannot comprehend why Office is not remaining exclusive. It's a huge IP and I've heard from several people that they're waiting for a tablet that runs pure Office. Some iPad user's think they have Office because they can open Word or Excel documents and it's kind of funny when I explain that it's not Microsoft Office but a 3rd party app.
8. Yep, it'll be difficult but I'll be recommending Slates to every one I know that's interested in buying a PC. The portability is huge and for the extra money, the flexibility is worth it and the value of having a single device for mobile and desktop computing is impressive.
9/10. Because of Windows 7 and it's continued availability and support, there will never be a better time to release an OS with such a huge interface change. That's not to say that Windows 8's success isn't important. It is but the measure of success is not going to be clear at first. Microsoft has it's own guidelines as it always has. User's dissatisfied with 8 can continue to run 7 and by the time Windows 7 show's it's age, the current crop of users that are leery of Windows 8 will be comfortable enough with it to embrace the refined Windows 9. We saw the same thing with XP to Vista to 7. XP was a great stable OS so Microsoft could test the waters with Vista. They refined Vista and released it as 7 and the cycle of test, refine, test continues.
2. Samsung got it pretty close with their Series 7 line. If they include more power efficient x86 cpu's (I get around 4.5 hrs on a core i5), built-in LTE, shave a smidge of weight off and come out with a professional grade dock, the next version could replace my desktop offsetting the higher cost of x86 tablets.
3. Meh, iPad's the undisputed king of tablets right now pretty much just because. Good marketing, a decent OS and strong trending really helped to make them the "coke" of tablets. I can't tell you how many people have said "Oh, you have an iPad" and I have to correct them and say "No, it's a Windows Slate". Of course there's the "What's that?" and the follow up explanation but after a few minutes, people get the difference and see the value.
4. But I thought the "cloud" was the future?
I'm sure there will be policies for Windows 8, not RT, to disable "Microsoft" account authentication so IT should be ok with it.5. I'm expecting IT to view Windows RT as something different from the traditional laptop/workstation. It's not a candidate for true desktop replacement and at this point, will be highly resilient to viruses and the controls enforced on application installs by Microsoft will help to keep tight control. I'm not saying that Group Policy wouldn't be nice but that the things you would do with an RT device and it's expected usage lessen the relevance of this particular issue. Not completely though.
6. There are rumors that WP7 apps will be ported. Hopefully we'll find out more but the store at this time doesn't seem to have a way to filter for true Windows 8 applications vs WP7 emulated apps. Of course they wouldn't because that would expose their intentions.
7. I cannot comprehend why Office is not remaining exclusive. It's a huge IP and I've heard from several people that they're waiting for a tablet that runs pure Office. Some iPad user's think they have Office because they can open Word or Excel documents and it's kind of funny when I explain that it's not Microsoft Office but a 3rd party app.
8. Yep, it'll be difficult but I'll be recommending Slates to every one I know that's interested in buying a PC. The portability is huge and for the extra money, the flexibility is worth it and the value of having a single device for mobile and desktop computing is impressive.
9/10. Because of Windows 7 and it's continued availability and support, there will never be a better time to release an OS with such a huge interface change. That's not to say that Windows 8's success isn't important. It is but the measure of success is not going to be clear at first. Microsoft has it's own guidelines as it always has. User's dissatisfied with 8 can continue to run 7 and by the time Windows 7 show's it's age, the current crop of users that are leery of Windows 8 will be comfortable enough with it to embrace the refined Windows 9. We saw the same thing with XP to Vista to 7. XP was a great stable OS so Microsoft could test the waters with Vista. They refined Vista and released it as 7 and the cycle of test, refine, test continues.
M$ has consistently said that they are never going to run 2 OS at the same time ever again. They did with XP and 98 and as a result XP wasn't adopted everyone and their dog bought 98.
They learned their lesson with that Fiasco and if you honestly believe that M$ will sell 7 & 8 at the same time in bulk you are dreaming. They will initially have a lot of 7 out there to buy new but when that falls off there will be no newer bulk sales of 7 just the ability to buy direct from M$.
As for Metro it's a disaster for M$ just like UAC was with Vista. Though in this case I can not understand why M$ wants to make it difficult for Desktop well Non Touch Screen users to use their product. Metro has to be a deliberate step but why it is the way that it is I fail to understand.
Col
They learned their lesson with that Fiasco and if you honestly believe that M$ will sell 7 & 8 at the same time in bulk you are dreaming. They will initially have a lot of 7 out there to buy new but when that falls off there will be no newer bulk sales of 7 just the ability to buy direct from M$.
As for Metro it's a disaster for M$ just like UAC was with Vista. Though in this case I can not understand why M$ wants to make it difficult for Desktop well Non Touch Screen users to use their product. Metro has to be a deliberate step but why it is the way that it is I fail to understand.
Col
Microsoft has said that they're going to continue to make Windows 7 available to corporations and it's going to be supported for another 10 years or so so yes, now's the time to gamble on a new UI.
I'm using Metro on the desktop right now with a keyboard and mouse, it's different, yes, but still completely usable. It takes 5 minutes to learn the basic functions and I'm sure there will be a healthy tutorial for new users when they turn on their Windows 8 PC's for the first time.
Side note, the repeated use of M$ screams 16 year old anti-MS idiot.
I'm using Metro on the desktop right now with a keyboard and mouse, it's different, yes, but still completely usable. It takes 5 minutes to learn the basic functions and I'm sure there will be a healthy tutorial for new users when they turn on their Windows 8 PC's for the first time.
Side note, the repeated use of M$ screams 16 year old anti-MS idiot.
Side note, the repeated use of M$ screams 16 year old anti-MS idiot.
Personally I find the use of MS offensive as it is a Incurable Disease with at best a minor form of Treatment which is not overly successful at alleviating the symptoms. I don't really believe that Microsoft derives to be linked with the disease the way that so many people seem to want to consistently do.
If you where to walk out into the street and ask the first stranger who walks by what MS is they will tell you Multiple Sclerosis not Microsoft. Google MS and see exactly what it is you get not a single mention of Microsoft till you get to the third page though. Then Google M$ and you get straight references to Microsoft. Take a look and see which is more likely to be the better aberration for Microsoft and that is without taking into account that most Professionals in the Medical Field will not recognise MS as anything but a disease and then demand to know how to clean their infected computers of it.
And as a Microsoft Partner I am offended by the continued insistence of people in linking Microsoft to a Incurable Disease as if in some form Microsoft deserves to be considered the same as Multiple Sclerosis. It most certainly doesn't.
OH and even though M$ is going to be supporting 7 for several years that in no way implies that they will be selling it in bulk. They still sell Microsoft DOS and now it's way too expensive to buy so I've been using a different DOS as the cost of a 7 License and installing DOS as a Backward Compactable OS is more that just a little over the top. Microsoft used to sell me DOS Licenses for $60.00 but 7 Professional is way more than that and to be perfectly honest it's not worth that much.
Regardless Microsoft will not be selling 2 distinct OS's in Opposition to each other ever again. They got their fingers badly burnt with XP and 98 and I can assure you that will never happen again.
Besides it doesn???t really matter what you or I think of Metro just the same as it didnt matter what we thought of Vista people hate it and that is all that matters. I can see 8 having the same reputation as Vista because of Metro and the real benefits of the OS will be lost with a stupid reaction to a User Unfriendly Menu System that I got away from when Windows 1 started.
Metro to me looks no better than 3D Menu did in the Old DOS Days and it actually looks a lot like it. As I said Previously great for Touch Screen Devices but people are going to resist it on the desktop. Then those that use Multiple Monitors will not use it at all. Not an issue with Touch Screens but it is most defiantly an Issue with 3 Screen Displays so that immediately rules out most of the Finical Institutions and Medical Diagnostic work and that is without even considering the wider workforce.
OH and incidently you can still buy XP from M$ but today you buy a 7 Professional License and Back-load XP as M$ doesn???t sell XP any more, they do the same thing with Vista as well.
Col
Personally I find the use of MS offensive as it is a Incurable Disease with at best a minor form of Treatment which is not overly successful at alleviating the symptoms. I don't really believe that Microsoft derives to be linked with the disease the way that so many people seem to want to consistently do.
If you where to walk out into the street and ask the first stranger who walks by what MS is they will tell you Multiple Sclerosis not Microsoft. Google MS and see exactly what it is you get not a single mention of Microsoft till you get to the third page though. Then Google M$ and you get straight references to Microsoft. Take a look and see which is more likely to be the better aberration for Microsoft and that is without taking into account that most Professionals in the Medical Field will not recognise MS as anything but a disease and then demand to know how to clean their infected computers of it.
And as a Microsoft Partner I am offended by the continued insistence of people in linking Microsoft to a Incurable Disease as if in some form Microsoft deserves to be considered the same as Multiple Sclerosis. It most certainly doesn't.
OH and even though M$ is going to be supporting 7 for several years that in no way implies that they will be selling it in bulk. They still sell Microsoft DOS and now it's way too expensive to buy so I've been using a different DOS as the cost of a 7 License and installing DOS as a Backward Compactable OS is more that just a little over the top. Microsoft used to sell me DOS Licenses for $60.00 but 7 Professional is way more than that and to be perfectly honest it's not worth that much.
Regardless Microsoft will not be selling 2 distinct OS's in Opposition to each other ever again. They got their fingers badly burnt with XP and 98 and I can assure you that will never happen again.
Besides it doesn???t really matter what you or I think of Metro just the same as it didnt matter what we thought of Vista people hate it and that is all that matters. I can see 8 having the same reputation as Vista because of Metro and the real benefits of the OS will be lost with a stupid reaction to a User Unfriendly Menu System that I got away from when Windows 1 started.
Metro to me looks no better than 3D Menu did in the Old DOS Days and it actually looks a lot like it. As I said Previously great for Touch Screen Devices but people are going to resist it on the desktop. Then those that use Multiple Monitors will not use it at all. Not an issue with Touch Screens but it is most defiantly an Issue with 3 Screen Displays so that immediately rules out most of the Finical Institutions and Medical Diagnostic work and that is without even considering the wider workforce.
OH and incidently you can still buy XP from M$ but today you buy a 7 Professional License and Back-load XP as M$ doesn???t sell XP any more, they do the same thing with Vista as well.
Col
In a tech discussion like this one, the abbreviation MS almost certainly stands for Microsoft, not Muscular Sclerosis. In other words, your entire rant here is nothing more than a straw man attack on Skruls without offering a single point in opposition to his viewpoint.
Well why when I used MS with a bunch of professionals did I get asked how to clean the systems from the infection?
The argument used by Skruis is just as invalid I might add.
It amuses me how people want to fixate themselves on 1 small item and ignore the rest of the Big Picture. But none the less you must be right because I read it on the Internet so everything you say must be true.
Col
The argument used by Skruis is just as invalid I might add.
It amuses me how people want to fixate themselves on 1 small item and ignore the rest of the Big Picture. But none the less you must be right because I read it on the Internet so everything you say must be true.
Col
I'm assuming your talking to IT pros. This is, after all, a site for IT professionals, not the general public, and the language should represent the audience.
Not everyone uses Windows. For that matter there are numerous customers of mine who do not have a Windows System in the building and I make a lot of money supplying hardware to suit their needs.
I still remember on place that does Movie Work who's HR Department under the Cost Cutting Accountants directive hired a IT Specialist who promptly stripped Red Hat off the 6K Blade and loaded Windows Server.
Have you any idea what the licensing costs are for 6,000 CPU's?
OH and the fact that their CG software wouldn't run on the newly installed Platform was a side issue apparently they should have paid a Programmer to rewrite to software that cost them a few Hundred Thousand to buy.
Anyway regardless Microsoft will not be selling Windows 7 and 8 at the same time. Sure Volume License users will be able to buy more 7 Licenses but they will not be able to buy a New Windows 7 Volume License.
Everyone choses to miss the point that Microsoft will not sell 2 Operating Systems at the same time in Competition with each other. Once 8 is released 7 Stops being sold to anyone but small users who have to jump through Hoops to get it.
8 is great for Touch Screen Devices like Tablets/Slates and Phones but it's awkward for the Desktop. Find the Network Setup Options quickly. Or the Defrag Utility. Sure they are there but it's faster and easier from the Start Menu which most certainly isn't there.
Col
I still remember on place that does Movie Work who's HR Department under the Cost Cutting Accountants directive hired a IT Specialist who promptly stripped Red Hat off the 6K Blade and loaded Windows Server.
Have you any idea what the licensing costs are for 6,000 CPU's?
OH and the fact that their CG software wouldn't run on the newly installed Platform was a side issue apparently they should have paid a Programmer to rewrite to software that cost them a few Hundred Thousand to buy.
Anyway regardless Microsoft will not be selling Windows 7 and 8 at the same time. Sure Volume License users will be able to buy more 7 Licenses but they will not be able to buy a New Windows 7 Volume License.
Everyone choses to miss the point that Microsoft will not sell 2 Operating Systems at the same time in Competition with each other. Once 8 is released 7 Stops being sold to anyone but small users who have to jump through Hoops to get it.
8 is great for Touch Screen Devices like Tablets/Slates and Phones but it's awkward for the Desktop. Find the Network Setup Options quickly. Or the Defrag Utility. Sure they are there but it's faster and easier from the Start Menu which most certainly isn't there.
Col
"Find the Network Setup Options quickly. Or the Defrag Utility. Sure they are there but it's faster and easier from the Start Menu which most certainly isn't there."
I know there are many ways in both Win 7 and Win 8 to get to Network setup and defrag but I would guess that a newbie would most likely go about it this way.
To get to Network Setup
Win 8 From the Metro UI Screen
(type) "network" + Enter + Click Network & Sharing Center icon = Network Set Up
From Win 7 Start Menu
Start + Control Panel + Scroll + Click Network & Sharing Center icon to get to network Set up.
To get to Defrag
Win 8 From the Metro UI screen
(type) "Defrag" + Enter = Defrag tool
From Win 7 Start Menu
Start + All Programs + Scroll to Accessories + Scroll to System Tools + click Disk Defragmenter = Defrag tool
I don't think either way is significantly faster by stopwatch.
I do think the Win 8 methods are more intuitive for a newbie provided they know that typing a word will call up apps with that word in the name. Hopefully Windows 8 makes that simple instruction clear to users.
I know there are many ways in both Win 7 and Win 8 to get to Network setup and defrag but I would guess that a newbie would most likely go about it this way.
To get to Network Setup
Win 8 From the Metro UI Screen
(type) "network" + Enter + Click Network & Sharing Center icon = Network Set Up
From Win 7 Start Menu
Start + Control Panel + Scroll + Click Network & Sharing Center icon to get to network Set up.
To get to Defrag
Win 8 From the Metro UI screen
(type) "Defrag" + Enter = Defrag tool
From Win 7 Start Menu
Start + All Programs + Scroll to Accessories + Scroll to System Tools + click Disk Defragmenter = Defrag tool
I don't think either way is significantly faster by stopwatch.
I do think the Win 8 methods are more intuitive for a newbie provided they know that typing a word will call up apps with that word in the name. Hopefully Windows 8 makes that simple instruction clear to users.
and how the majority of users will use it. Now try doing that find them again by using the GUI with the mouse and forget the keyboard shortcuts, as they work just as fast in both - or they damn well should.
I chose the keyboard to interact with the Win 8 GUI instead of the mouse.
But if this is a mouse challenge, you can get to network settings in Win 8 by clicking the desktop tile and right clicking the network icon in the task tray - The same as you can in Win 7.
You can get to defrag by navigating Windows Explorer like you navigated Start > Programs > Accessories, etc.
But why would you do that if the keyboard is faster?
\
But if this is a mouse challenge, you can get to network settings in Win 8 by clicking the desktop tile and right clicking the network icon in the task tray - The same as you can in Win 7.
You can get to defrag by navigating Windows Explorer like you navigated Start > Programs > Accessories, etc.
But why would you do that if the keyboard is faster?
\
I'll tell you ONE reason why you prefer to use a mouse over a keyboard - if the GUI is mouse orientated it's a lot faster, especially for those who have only one workable hand or no touch typing training.
MS disease link before the Microsoft link. So it's not just HAL 9000 - that's part of why some people do Microsoft as M$ to show it isn't MS the disease. If we were to use the acronyms properly the one fro Microsoft should be Ms as the soft in Microsoft is NOT a capital S.
I think Skrius meant the user of the '$' character indicated idiocy, not the use of Microsoft products.
And I think its use is wholly appropriate, as a guerrilla term for "The Major Software Company who used to be known as an innovator, and has now become a millstone around the neck of the user."
Why do we HAVE these "upgrades" continually coming out? I'll tell you why: for the glory of the God of Money, without which M$ would be dead dead dead, long long long ago. If the intent were to make our machines run better, or our lives run better, I think M$ would still be upgrading WinXP, for instance, and increasing its capabilities, rather than turning numbers over so they can sell yet another "innovation" to users.
Sure, $ drives commerce, but when commerce is out of control, and even imposes its own handicaps on consumers and users, I will (thank you very much) be pointing that fact out.
Why do we HAVE these "upgrades" continually coming out? I'll tell you why: for the glory of the God of Money, without which M$ would be dead dead dead, long long long ago. If the intent were to make our machines run better, or our lives run better, I think M$ would still be upgrading WinXP, for instance, and increasing its capabilities, rather than turning numbers over so they can sell yet another "innovation" to users.
Sure, $ drives commerce, but when commerce is out of control, and even imposes its own handicaps on consumers and users, I will (thank you very much) be pointing that fact out.
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