Discussion on:

Microsoft Surface: iPad knockoff for enterprise? That works

As much as I usually enjoy your comments, Charlie, this time I have to disagree. To be clear, here's the bit I refer to:
"This is not a ipad .this is a real pc in your hand's not a toy"
The 'iPad is a toy' attitude is all over TR these days (including this very thread!) and while I sort of get why people might start to think that, anyone who makes a serious attempt at using a tables would, in my opinion, be disinclined to agree.

not in enterprize never will cant play battle feld 3 on it cant add programs you make to them .cant upgrade them.so it is a Toy! enterprize wont use it because of security concerns. whit sruface they control what is put on it. not thier dumm *** employees.that why it will work in enterprize

"cant play battle feld 3:

No one at the enterprise level cares if it won't run games.

"cant add programs you make"

Yes, you can. You have to go through the App Store, but it can be done:

https://developer.apple.com/programs/ios/distribute.html

And just because you don't have a use for it doesn't make it a toy.

security company data on some thing the emplyee can change on thier own will never be accepted .by any company that want real security and a ipad is not very secure.Oh an go away fanboy,and befor you start a fight wiht me i am not for any one platform.dont care what i use as long as it works apple,windows,or lenux i use for hacking dont care a tool is just a tool.

@sarai1313, please keep in mind that by calling it a toy, you expressed an opinion. Not everybody is going to agree with that opinion. Attacking those who disagree with you is not the way to learn why they disagree.

We have these forums and discussions, so we can learn why others might disagree with us and their reasons.

"security company data on some thing the emplyee can change on thier own will never be accepted .by any company that want real security and a ipad is not very secure."

The same can be said about any device, regardless of manufacturer. Windows devices require an anti-malware app and a firewall, at a minimum. Previous versions defaulted to a single account with admin access as part of the initial configuration.

I'm always amused when someone calls me an Apple fanboi, since I've never used an Apple device in my life. I also enjoy it when someone calls me any kind of fanboy but then claims to be immune from counter-accusations.

sure some cut down version of some game but not the full version it would not run .by the way there are two versions of thier tablet one for enterprize and one that is not .boy i can tell you are a fanboy.well i am not for any one platform.all i want is the best tool for the job. Not what i need to be part of the in click i think thats what it is called now.oh want to be with that group so i will by what they by so i can to part of the click

... you simply prove you do NOT know which is the best tool for the job. Sometimes the best tool for a car mechanic looks like a dentist's tooth-cleaning pick. By comparison, it looks like a toy. What may be a toy to you could well fit another's needs perfectly.

I withdraw the comment.

Charlie, I wouldn't have called it gross inaccuracy and did not intend you to delete any comment. I always enjoy a debate with you and if you'd simply missed the comment I was referring to, that's only human. It was hidden in the post well, after all.

No harm intended and no harm done

I look forward to further debates with you.

You were right, I was completely wrong. I don't have any pride on the line here, at least not enough to not clean up after myself.

The beauty about the Surf is not because of its looks and not because of its power, but it is because of its simplicity. It's so simple that I believe that Ives (at Apple) must be kicking himself. It is so simple that the designers at Dell and HP must be cursing themselves when they go sleep. The lesson for all of us in the IT industry (developers and hardware alike) is to keep things simple. "The simple things in life are often the best" and that's what my grandmother used to tell me.

Great comment Michael. After reading the article I am still abit confused. While it all sounds nice, I am still wondering if you can run all the applications that are taylored for the iPad on the new Microsoft tablet albeit like you I already have a Asus Transformer sitting in its charger most of the time. For instance, a lot of the industry POS systems, swipes, etc... are made exclusively for the iPad/iPod... However, like you, I ustilized the typical laptop configuration. It sure would be nice if this integrated into a microsoft enterprise version? Also, considering the cost which is even more expensive than an iPad, if I am losing some of those great features of an iPad, is it truly worth the price?

How we have such a short memory. I can hardly count the number of orphaned devices (a number of them tablets), services and software products Microsoft has abandoned. Are we really going to go for the same bait again? We get all the bad and little of the good, klugy GUI, no backward compatibility and a pile of junk accessories to carry around. Let's face it Microsoft stole the march with the Ipad. Microsoft should be looking to the future for new ideas, which they rarely do in this arena. Its not all bad, I will probably be able to buy a surface cheap in a few months so I can figure out how to load Linux on it.

Are we really going to do this again? Really?

Every vendor has failed/abandoned products (remember Newton, anyone? How about Apple NAS server - or Apple Server hardware of any kind?) Consumers buy products because it provides them what they want, and in this case the Microsoft Surface is exactly what I've been waiting for.

How can a promiscuous device from MS bring security? u got to be kidding!

Configure it to be less promiscuous? How do you think people secure Windows servers.

Wait....I'm having a flashback of the swiss cheese that was IIS5.....noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Configure it .D'huh most folks dont understand all they know of security Mc something or another.not how to limit the user from messing with the system once in is in thier hands .and that is what most companys are looking for a laptop,pad, or thier own servers.

If everyone could do it effectively, many of us would be out of a job. Thankfully, that isn't the case

With BitLocker encryption enterprises can secure data the Surface the same as they do for laptops. It even includes remote wipe if lost or stolen.

This appeals, as trying to make security conform to Apple as a Federated option - is almost a non-issue (ie: not going to happen...) for many of the clients we have. In the end, if this can be implemented simply, easily and conform to group policies/encryption tunnelling (and it's windows, so it will) it's a slam dunk for getting into larger corporate clients hands... Executives will love it. No reliance on external parties for pull/push options, updates, etc... Let's see what the price will be, but I think realistically - it's a winner to many... especially secure places...

People, please. It's not the form factor. It's not the keyboard. It's not the screen resolution, nor even the plethora of ports.

The most interesting thing about the Surface is the business model.

If it's running Windows, I can build my own apps for it. I can go buy third party apps. My company can put their own IT apps on it. No Android Play or Apple Store to deal with. Just get the compiler and an editor and go nuts. I can run full-on Excel with all of my 1000's of custom-written macros on it, the same way I can on my PC.

This is awesome. Apple, Google, you can keep your "stores" with your bloody stupid and restrictive rules.

Oh, and if that weren't enough for this technically demanding audience, you can bet, given its UEFI BIOS and x86-based architecture, that there'll be multiple Linuxes in a few months - at least on the Pro version.

I'm telling you - for these reasons alone, I'll definitely be buying one. Or two. Or more.

Surface RT is essentially an iPad for Windows users. RT itself is to Windows 8 what iOS is to OS X. Like the iPad, Microsoft has used a magnetic cover to protect the screen and 'flip' the power switch, but unlike the iPad they made the cover into a soft keyboard not that different from so many others already available with the exception that it uses a Microsoft proprietary connector.

As for the iPad "not having any kind of keyboard available", it seems someone has forgotten that it was released with an optional (and still available) docking keyboard to let you type on it just as normally as you will type on the Surface. The difference is that the iPad also allows the use of ANY bluetooth keyboard, including desktop grade units.

The Surface Pro on the other hand is a merger between the old, failed Windows tablets with RT compatibility through the Metro interface. Yes, this could really be a step forward for Microsoft, or it could be nothing more than a repeat of that 10-year-old failure. The biggest advantage is its ability to integrate with the desktop environment more easily.

Is it a super-slim laptop as some have suggested? Not really; it's a tablet first even though it does run the full Windows 8 OS in the Pro version. It's intended to be used without the keyboard most of the time and I fully believe you'll find that keyboard 'cover' will fail as a keyboard very quickly if you're a heavy-fingered typist.

Surface has great potential and I think Microsoft realizes this. But the users are the ones who will make or break this product and based on the discussions I've read here, it's going to end up yet another failure for MS when they really need a success.

Surface RT is not iPad for Windows users. Nothing could be further from the truth. WinRT (the kernel that runs the Surface RT) is the future of the Windows platform. It is a new kernel that will eventually replace Explorer.EXE. Win8 currently runs both kernels concurrently in order to maintain backwards compatibility, but the goal is to eventually get rid of Explorer.EXE completely and to switch all apps to the new kernel. I do not think anyone here would argue that iOS is the eventual replacement for OS X.

Surface Pro is also not a merger between old Windows tablets and the Metro interface. It is thinner, more powerful and designed specifically for Win8 which, itself, was designed with tablets in mind (unlike all previous versions of Windows).

Furthermore, your prediction about the failure of the keyboard cover for "heavy typists" is based on what? Oh that's right, nothing! Microsoft has tested the keyboard for both speed/accuracy of typists and longevity of use.

I make no prediction of the success of the product (I'm not a seer), but I can tell you that I plan to buy one.

RT only runs on ARM processors. Are you saying Microsoft is going to abandon Intel and AMD?

Incidentally, XP Tablet was designed specifically with the tablets of early '00s in mind. Unfortunately,few apps were (OneNote being the rare exception).

Look in your Windows directory and you will find WinRT is running as well as explorer.exe. While explorer.exe will not run on ARM, WinRT can run on Intel.

You're right that XP Tablet edition was made for tablets, but lets be honest, XP was designed for the desktop and the Tablet edition was developed on the side. My point is that Win8 is the only Windows designed from the ground up for tablets.

I've had one in hand for the last month, pre-release.
Minus the App store (not a negative remark), it's very flexible and gives market users all of the things that up to now, Apple has collaterally denied: USB access, Full application support,.. Sync with multiple sources, not just one iTunes desktop.
Is that not enough to make it leaps and bounds better? Especially for the enterprise?
BTW - I don't use my iPad any longer as I have now been freed from arbitrary vendor limitations.

The main reason people like iPads is the app store. If microsoft come up with a decent app store model then it might work otherwise people just wont buy them

No matter whether it looks like iPad, if it proves in performance, then Microsoft strategy of positioning itself in Enterprise will surely work in its advantage. Given the fact that there is already a widespread adoption of MS based services in Enterprises & its roll out of Cloud services, MS is set to gain. The way i look at these devices, you will surely need PCs/laptops for some resource intensive activities, while tablets will evolve more as a personal consumption device. When i mean personal consumption, i am referring to browsing, personal mailing, socializing, researching, book reading, apps usage & entertainment. As Jason mentioned, i feel, no other device maker had the might & necessary environment to take on iPad & Android Devices. While Blackberry had established its credentials in Communication security, HP lacked in its Apps offering, Microsoft has OS, Apps, Partner Network, Global Presence (they are planing a 45 language support) which can help it. More over, to some extent i also believe Nokia's Mobile Partnership & Facebook should help it. The power of computing keep multiplying every year, hence i am really keen to see how this evolves. Now i am waiting for the next surprise from Google Mobility.

I applaud this attempt by Microsoft. I have been using an early HP (TC1100) tablet with windows XP on it for quite some time and it is great except for a few items. The main thing is the full use of all conceivable Microsoft applications that really work. I had started to get my wife a new IPAD since she uses an apple laptop. It didn't take much investigation to learn that was a poor plan. I got her an Android tablet instead. All the problems of the IPAD and maybe a few more but not many, but at around 1/8 the cost. We have patched and modified so that it is usable sort of, maybe better than a stock IPAD, but neither is up to use in a business environment unless it is for simple portable I/O to real computer. Neither the IPAD nor the ANDROID can actually print to ordinary printers unless another real computer exists somewhere and is running. The multiple touch gestures are confusing to most people at first

I will look carefully at the windows attempt and see what it has to offer. Critical to check is the battery life, heating, standard software from Microsoft, tablet & touch applications, upgrade capability for memory and storage ,and whether it will print to any wifi or usb printer. If it is done correctly then it will be a great addition to a lot of systems and should outdistance the other tablet quickly.

Knockoff is not the word I would use to describe a 'Full' PC in front of an oversized phone

"That???s going to mean a lot fewer worries about compatibility, security, and data protection. In other words, it means a lot less work for IT on the backend and a smoother transition for many users."

Jason,
Microsoft is known as the home of back-doors! Just remember the last security-patches, so please remove security from your list of "fewer worries", otherwise I count you as a "Microsoft court-jester"!

I've been through the thread and I'm now sick of "MS can't launch products....blah...blah....orphaned devices....blah....blah....security, my ass!....blah....blah....iPad knockoff....blah....blah.....MS are too late....blah....Jason is advertising....waaaaaaahhhh!"

Still, this is a comments thread for a Jason Hiner article so it's been quite tame so far.

Stop with the negativity already. We all know MS and their previous shortcomings. We know the traditional weaknesses of a Windows platform. None of it matters. Get hold of a demo unit, play with it, watch how MS launch and run the surface services and then judge whether this is for you.

For all we know the security will be fixed, the launch will be awesome and the device will beat the iPad, at least in the enterprise.

I'm not a fan of MS and I abandoned windows in my home for Android (yeah, crazy - I know). At work I support a handful of Solaris boxes, a couple of Linux servers and a shed-load of Win-Tel architecture. I know the pain of supporting and securing MS platforms. Still, despite all this, I choose to be an optimist and to give the Surface a chance. This has promise for a number of reasons, people - open your eyes and dare to see that.

MS - don't frakk this up and make me a fool on this.....(ominous glare)

I work in education and engineering. Tablets appeal to me (although I have yet to buy one) because they are the way to take the relevant part of my (desk-sitting) laptop for a journey on the field or a few days of travel.
In a days' work I use intensively Office, Autodesk, Adobe, mathematical and design applications that need top CPU and graphics processors, RAM and HDD, two screens, large keyboard, etc. But while on the way I just need to carry documents, files, drawings, to show or look at and, sometimes, do a bit of work on them to catch later on when back at the office. And check email and browse the web, of course.
For all of this, I just need powered-down versions of the applications (Office on RT will be splendid) but also - and mainly - a limited version of the same OS I use at the office. I don't want to keep wondering where is this or that, how to find a file or to copy and paste in Android 4, iOS or whatever runs the thing.
I don't think Microsoft intends to jump into the hardware manufacturer bandwagon. I see Surface as a way to show the world and its OEM partners that an iPad equivalent (in all aspects, looks included) is possible to create and run Win8.
Microsoft is leading the pack, will obviously sell the first batches of RT tablets (I really don't see a reasonable-sized market for the x86 version, for the reasons I mentioned) and make a profit mainly through Win8 RT software. Surface tablets will become a high-end items, perhaps concentrating on larger memory, 4G and higher resolution screen.
The main challenge - that I wish they win - will be to make Win8 in different flavours but running smoothly from desktop to laptop to tablet. Can't wait October is here...

I'm betting you do all that work on a Windows 7 system. Surface will be running Windows 8. Have you looked at W8 yet? You're still going to be wondering where is this or that, how to copy and paste, etc. W8 is just that much different from W7.

There will be the option to upgrade your primary system to W8 too, but you've already noted the issue of not having different versions of the OS for desktops vs. tablets. That's also one of my complaints.

Sure. I am not a tech pro, I am a user pro. That issue is relevant whenever one upgrades OS or applications (XP to Vista and then to 7; Office XP/2003 to 2007/2010), some re-learning is needed and Win8 will not be different. But, at least, that effort will pay by using the same platform and applications irrespective of the hardware under it.

The apps will definitely be the same. Some of the features that are drawn from the OS will be different, though. For example, the File Save window will look different based on the OS, although not radically enough to require retraining. It's the OS itself that may drive you nuts.

Doctors are going to love this thing. Alot of hospitals and healthcare providers are currently running or in the process of switching to EHR. My doctor for instance has to lug a little laptop around with him to update my chart. With surface this will be alot easier with the smaller footprint and the 600 dpi stylus where he can scribble notes instead of typing them in. Along with being more durable and not having to charge it every two hours, doctors are going to love this.

If I were Microsoft, I'd have sales reps invading hospitals as soon as this thing arrives. No more using iPads and expensive Citrix infrastructure to virtualize applications so that they run on non-Windows hardware. Once doctors get their hands on surface, iPads will start piling up in recycle bins to give to poor kids.

Poor Steven Sinofsky. as president of Microsoft???s Windows division, he was one of the main presenters at Monday???s unveiling of the Microsoft Surface tablet in Los Angeles, and every tech presenter???s Epic Fail Moment had to happen to him live on stage. He played it off well, and they had a backup Surface tablet in the wings, but, it was still yet another epic set back for Microsoft. I think Microsoft is trying hard to play catch up, but, I don't feel too sorry for them, or count them out too early. They are still the proverbial 800 pound Gorrilla, even though Google and Apple are just getting past 500 pounds. The tech world is mercurial, flexible, volitile, and unforgiving. But, you really never know just how it's going to break... Microsoft has tons of marketing muscle, it remains to be seen if they can make metro and RT work on this little tablet. The problem is they keeping stepping on their own, big feet.

Microsoft announced the tablet PC in 2001.