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Teardown shows Retina MacBook Pro is nearly impossible to upgrade, difficult to work on

Someone insisted on standardized error codes for any and all cars, at least in North America. How much time is spent servicing for nothing because of this weak spot. And it can happen anytime. With new cars you get between 3-5 years standard at "no visible extra cost". With Apple you want 2 extra years, that'll be $300 dollars please. Does that tell you anything. Macs are expensive to fix after 1 year (remember the iPod battery fiasco?). Just like Best Buy tries to sell you an extended warranty. That's where they make their money. But their extra 2 years on a non-Mac is much cheaper than Apple Care and there are (still) a lot more Best Buys around than Mac dealers.

Extended warranties aren't--except in some European countries where they are extended by law. You may think those cars are servicing for nothing, but in all honesty if that light comes on, there is a problem, even if only an intermittent one.

You mention the iPod battery issue; are you talking about the one where Apple replaced every single third-gen iPod Nano for free? Maybe you're thinking of the motherboard capacitor issue which affected every single computer brand--including Apple--which Apple recalled and repaired/replaced those affected motherboards?

Oh, and it's obvious that you've forgotten that Best Buy does sell Apple computers too.

... predicts that computers will get twice as fast every 18 months or so, for the same relative price. For decades, that theorem has driven the PC product lifecycle and lifespan.

Apple's new products will most assuredly work fine for 18 months. In fact, I'm quite certain they'll work fine for several years beyond that. But NO computer made by any manufacturer (yet or in the foreseeable future) will beat Moore's Law: they'll all be replaced within 18 months or so with a much faster version with other upgrades and features. So what's the point in whining about how "obsolete" someone's new MacBook (Pro or Air) will be in 18 months? Every laptop will be. Every desktop, too.

Sure, not everyone can afford to buy a new one every 18 months. And the bulk of people won't try. But a stocked-up MBA or MBP should deliver at least 4 years of solid service. I have MBP's that are 8 years old or older that still function fine (albeit, on older versions of the OS). I even have a 25 year-old Mac SE that I started up the other day and it beeped and fired right to life, and I was able to type up a document in no time. Worked as well as you can expect a 16mhz machine from 1987 to work.

Every new PC becomes obsolete the day it's assembled. Some can be upgraded later on, but the reality is that only a tiny fraction of them ever will be. No enterprise is going to bet it's future on some fly-by-night processor upgrade company's promises that they might be around in two years to support what they sold today. So the fact that PCs can be upgraded doesn't necessarily make them any better than a Mac that can't be, when, in the end, they're both going to be replaced in 3-4 years anyway for the latest, greatest thing.

I consider your comment reflects current status quo due, & not unreasonably so,to fulfill the needs of current market forces, I look forward to any comments.
regards
nitram

"twice the components", in other words, half the size. Now, admittedly this tends to work out to "twice as fast" in most cases, but there is also a law of diminishing returns, where halving the distance of a line means you get there twice as quickly. When you start talking in nanometer lengths it becomes an inverse logarithm because it still takes data a certain time to travel through the components. Just as charging a capacitor or an inductor to full takes a 'practical' 7 time units, in truth that component isn't truly at 100% until much later. Each 70% rise per time unit is 70% of the remaining distance so that the 'effective' charge is short but not complete. The same is just as true in devices like our computers, even if not as obvious. A more practical demonstration might be the parable of the frog hopping half the distance down a 10-foot path with each leap. He will never cross that 10-foot line because he will never reach it.

How does this apply to your discussion? First off, as you say eventually any product, no matter the brand, will fail--it's only a matter of time. The difference is that while that "Retina" MBP will eventually fail, it is significantly less likely to fail than its competition over the same period of time. Apple's obvious effort here is that Apple intends for the device to remain reliable over its practical lifetime (I'll call it 5 years just to set a point) so that it's more efficient to purchase a new one rather than repair and update the existing one.

The enterprise has on average developed a replacement/upgrade cycle of 2.5 years--some at two, others at three. Why? Because the average commodity-priced hardware only lasts from two to three years before requiring a repair that costs more in IT labor than the device did new. Apple's devices on the other hand, tend to last more than twice as long and this fact was proven even 20 years ago in a public documentary that, unfortunately, I can no longer locate but which I watched on a cable channel in the early '90s. Reduced maintenance costs with increased productivity can offer higher savings and even higher profits to the manufacturer and the user.

So setting your arbitrary 18 months may be legitimate for the generic Windows/linux PC, but fails abysmally for Apple's products when speaking of productive lifespan. Laptops in particular almost never see in-box repairs unless it is an easily-swapped component like the hard drive--but even that is fading due to the relative reliability of SSDs. Laptops simply don't get repaired any more unless the problem is software--at which point the fix is a simple re-imaging rather than troubleshooting. Anything more becomes too costly.

In other words, Apple's demonstrating that replacement will be cheaper than repair while ensuring that you won't need to replace it until long after the 'equivalent' PC has been replaced a minimum of once and more likely twice.

I think your analogy only partially works, in that Apple products aren't really luxury products, they are commodity components packaged in a way to make them feel luxurious - the styling, branding, packaging, advertising and market positioning are all aimed at creating a luxury feel, while the actual system isn't really anything special, it's made of the same cheap commodity components that every other system is. The analogy with BMW cars doesn't work for me, they are actually designed and engineered to a very high standard compared to a Hyundai. Comparing Apple with Harley does work for me though - both style over substance, branded and positioned as luxury items while in reality being no better and often not as good as their competitors.

With regard to the serviceability, we all know that batteries wear out and hard disks fail, to make these components not serviceable by anyone other than Apple is to lock people into a maintenance contract. I'm sure that's what Apple want to achieve and from their perspective it's good business, but it doesn't make much sense for the purchaser who will find his system increasingly expensive to service once the warranty runs out. It's also another push in the direction of disposable technology, a trend which is dreadfully wasteful of limited resources.

Car manufacturers tried to push down this route some years back when they made things like sealed unit headlamps which required you to replace an entire headlamp complete with the garage labour costs to do so, simply because a bulb had failed. Consumer backlash and common sense has luckily put a stop to such short-term, wasteful and proprietary practices in the car industry so it's a shame to see Apple trying to do the same for their products. It may be profitable for them in the short term, but many people who find themselves having to shell out lots of cash just because they want to replace a worn out battery will be wary of purchasing an Apple product next time around.

We have a mix of Apple, HP and Dell computers in our small office, and it's fair to say that the last Apple Mac Pro purchase last year was such a poor experience that it was likely to be our last, if this is the way that Apple are heading then I very much doubt we'll be buying any more.

Take 100 generic (any brand) Windows PC and put them beside 100 Macs. Install Win7 clean on all 200 machines and then put them all to performing the exact same tasks--processor and device-intensive tasks--and leave them alone. Check on the number of machines still running un-touched a week, a month, three months, a year, two years, etc. and see which ones break down over the course of time. What you're going to find out is that after 3 months between 5-10% of the Windows boxes will have failed while maybe 1-2% of the Macs fail. At one year the ratio will be around 25:10. Two years nearly 50% to maybe 20% and 5 years roughly 80% to 40%. Macs simply last longer because they're built to last.

You complain about them gluing the batteries down but let me ask you this: If components inside the case are allowed to shift even the tiniest bit, doesn't that mean connections are stressed and soldered joints break? Sure, they're not serviceable by the typical user or even a moderately-trained techie, but they're not meant to even require servicing over their lifetime.

Denigrate them all you will; Macs are still more reliable than the average Windows PC.

Oh, and for all your complaint about auto manufacturers and "sealed beam headlamps", why is it that cars are so much MORE expensive now that you can do some of that work yourself?

I'd like to see your source for those statistics, but I'll accept them as valid. At the two year mark, I bet most of those Window's PCs either had a RAM, hard drive, or power supply failure. Those are easily fixed with a screwdriver and a replacement part. Those 20% of the Apples that failed at the 2 year mark? They may as well be bricks since they are 1 year out of warranty and sealed like Fort Knox.

regarding Macs overheating. "2010 Macbooks seriously overheating" being the first of many series of keywords you should be using to find out issues that grossly contradict your point.

iFixit has shown macbooks to have poorly applied thermal grease, even in the 2011 models, leading to overheating and questionable long-term viability... 2009 models just about overheated... the ones I've used got 15C hotter than my cheap plastic Sony of the time...

Never mind warped screws, dripping oil under a fan, and other appalling issues for a device hyped up as being quality.i

MacBooks have a better built case. The INNARDS are what are slopped together. Right down to the unevenly lit backlight. For such a "quality, well-built" product, the 2011 year model was a total nadir. I exchanged the one I'd bought twice.

See one of my responses above; when my MBP's battery dies, if the rest of it still works, I would rather spend $200 for a battery than $2500 for a new laptop that might not work with my software. Adobe won't always bend over backwards to any other company, and most of us SMBs have to look after our budgets after a certain point as well. If Apple wants me to spend $2500, then maybe I should migrate to Windows and bankrupt myself in the process because of it preferring me to spend more money just to make itself look better (and more vain) in the process... but I digress.

A friend bought a 2012 model recently and had problems, leading to an exchange. That's a lot of "coincidences", and nobody's talked about the ghosting issue in the retina screen yet...

Like I said in a response above - most people don't care to know about details or specifics. Maybe if people bothered, they wouldn't resort to crude generalizations about Macs being more reliable. I want real stats of your claim, with all the computers doing the exact same things over the period of time. Given how HOT macbooks get, and being in technology for two decades, anybody telling me macs are better isn't going to win me over very quickly. Even Apple's own website has loads of people complaining about issues that DO affect the long-term lifespan of the electronics.

But to get to your cars tangent: Cars are probably higher in price to make profit margins look better, since more and more people don't have the money to spend. Inflation, wage devaluation, stagflation, wage cuts, and other issues all contribute to that as well. There are other factors, yeah, but I may as well mention the ones that aren't said the most often.

In many ways you can look at PCs similarly. But that doesn't make sense, does it?

Ok, I won't deny that Apple, like anybody else, will have the occasional 'lemon.' What you overlook is that while that MacBook may be "overheating", what you have is a massive heat sink drawing the heat away from the components and thus protecting them as compared to, as you put it, "... my cheap, plastic Sony." Then again, your complaint about the 'light leaking' displays seems to fade away as the device 'ages', merely pointing out that most of those products where people have complained are barely off the assembly line where the adhesives used aren't fully cured yet. For that matter, that 'light leakage' problem barely affects most users as the device is used in full daylight or a brightly-lighted office most of the time. Only somebody looking for defects with the intent to denigrate the product would even consider that a failure.

On the other hand, I'm fully aware of 'ghosting' and quite honestly I've seen it even on Apple's older displays. Quite honestly it's little different from the old CRT's 'ghosting' due to a high-contrast image sitting at one place on the display for any kind of significant time. This is why screen savers were originally created and honestly it's why they're still needed. Reducing the intensity or sharpness of the display would obviously reduce the ghosting. The retina display is only a higher-resolution display using the same old LED technology. Apple does tend to set the display to a high-contrast mode by default, which I will complain about, but merely reducing the brightness and the contrast by about 25% makes a huge difference in the level of ghosting. By the way, Apple's displays aren't the only ones that 'ghost', they're merely the ones people choose to make vocal complaints about as they try to denigrate the brand.

You are right; on average people don't know and don't care about the internals of their devices--they simply want them to work. That also means that a more reliable device will last longer for them. Which again means more overall savings. Since most laptops now are placed on some sort of cooling stand any more, that 'overheating' thing isn't nearly as bad as you'd like us to believe.

Oh, and that cars tangent? Cars themselves supposedly have razor-thin profit margins--if any. Trucks on the other hand have anywhere from 20% to 50% profit margin (depending on model and equipment) that means for most brands their trucks subsidize their cars and at least where I live trucks appear to be a good 30% of the traffic if not more. Part of this is obviously due to the less expensive construction (body on frame vs unibody) but they obviously don't need to be quite as tightly engineered simply because the truck has so much more room in the cab compared to most cars, which makes the engineering itself less expensive. True, trucks are becoming more popular as family vehicles, but they're still easier and cheaper to build as a result. Those headlights? Sealed-beam was a federal mandate back in the '50s and only for the US as far as I know. The models that went with plastic lenses and reflectors went to smaller but no less expensive replaceable bulbs that could still be user-replaced--if the user knew how to dismantle the assembly. It wasn't an attempt to force users to take it in for replacement, it was merely the user's ignorance of the procedure that made them take it in.

Reliability reports produced by Square trade, Consumer Reports & PC World from 2008 to 2011 with samples of around 40k each, place Apple 4th, with a malfunction rate of 11% yr 2 & 17% yr 3. (Asus 1st with 9% & 15.6% & Hp last with 16% & 25.6%!)

Apple came a clear 1st in customer support, noting it was the easiest & fastest to get it fixed (guess where HP came!)

As it has been stated in this discusion that Apple places higher quality demands upon its suppliers to reduce component failure rate, so what accounts for the no. 4 spot? Admittedly these surveys do not indicate type of usage & PC World's could be influenced by owners with a grudge! so results be treated as a guide & general indication of trends only.

The other factors could be contributing to this failure rate could be any of or combination of the usual suspects:
compromised board layout, failed soldered joints through thermal fatigue,thermal grease/heatpad problems &/or heat sink/fan design, or have we all sat it down on one's lap the wrong way (for Apple), leading to the high temps some owners of MacBook Pro's have reported here. (Apple are allways first to admit & correct problems inherent in their designs, (just like HP!))

However if this failure rate (or even Asus's) is applied to the new Retina Macbook Pro, (with its sealed rtb protocol) due to manufacturing or design flaws, then Applecare is essentual. I would be pleasantly supprised if the combination of Intel i7, SSD, reduced parts count & simpler manufacturing proccess yielded by the soldered RAM & Battery, could bring the failure rate down to levels that would offset this additional Applecare cost.

Gluing the batteries to the inside of the case? Seriously? Doesn't that strike you as just a little too cynically blatant planned obsolescence? A computer battery is a "wear item" like a car's tires, so the automotive equivalent would be making the tires impossible to change except by sending the car all the way back to the factory. Even a BMW or a Harley can, if something goes wrong, frequently be repaired on the side of the road, at least enough to get you to a proper repair shop. Not making parts with limited life spans, like SSDs and batteries user-replaceable makes Apple products non-starters for me. Not to even mention that whole closed-ecology thing they've got going.

Near as I can tell, the point is that there is a segment of the population (you know who you are) which has been trained to just chuck the entire computer, and trot down to the crApple store like good little proles to buy a new one, when the battery stops holding a charge, or RAM or the hard drive fails. It looks like there is a lot of overlap between Apple drones and the critters that voted for Obama. An attraction to bright shiny things that don't live up to their promises and a willingness to let someone else do the thinking seem to be the common threads, here. Form over substance in all things, and thinking is too much like work.

I wanted to be able to continue to like Apple. I really did. It started out as something that was really cool. My first computer was an Apple IIe. But in the fullness of time, Apple mutated into something hideous.

Your comment hits directly at the heart of the matter. Nearly perfect. The only thing that I would add is that, like Harley s, the main reason that Apple products appear (or become) dominant from a marketing standpoint is that so many people drink the Kool-Aid and the people who design and market the add-ons (cases, music docks, screen protectors for Apple, seats, windshields, electronics for Harley) focus on add-ons for those products. Just like I am considering a Harley because there are FAR more aftermarket add-ons for those than all the other makes combined, I am forced to consider Apple due to the availability of aftermarket products. I loathe the thought, but am forced to consider them because that's where the market is.

I wish I could have voted for your comment more than once!

By the way, before you buy that iPad that can't be expanded and is unjustifiably expensive, consider the ASUS Eee Transformer tablet. Far superior (quad-core, more memory, expandable), and less expensive.

>> It looks like there is a lot of overlap between Apple drones and the critters that voted for Obama.

That's just what we need. Let's bring politics into this. Heck, while we're at it, why don't we bring religion into the mix and refer to all Apple-fans as socialist liberal hipster devil-worshiping heathens?

Good lord... It's a computer. It's not taking your welfare stamps and guns away from you.

BTW, if welfare was so great, he'd have left his job and life a life of luxury at our expense... or so we're led to believe about welfare recipients... Of course, if he looked up the activities of lobbyists, he'd be far more shocked at who gets the free ride... and that includes corporations offshoring jobs at taxpayer expense. Holy redistribution of wealth, batman... but, no, to him it's always the people he disagrees with, rather than looking at the whole of the situation.

"rocket ride" started this, so he shouldn't dare wail when he's asked to stand up for his beliefs. He will be countered, rightly so, and he won't be able to answer - thanks in part to how Obama has played this game, since it's nothing more than a game and hasn't been for a couple of decades or longer.... And maybe Obama has played chess all along. It'd make sense, as there are those who will hate him just for the sake or even fun of doing so.

... or did I miss that statement somewhere?

The first sentence in his post is directly quoted from the parent post by rocketride.

If anybody introduced politics, it wasn't nwallette.

n/t

since you must believe that THAT person thinks more of the people of this country... so be that person's champion and dish. It'll just mean it's your reputation, and not his, that gets sullied when the dish is proven to be one string of half-baked fluff.

And it's even more interesting that you don't even mention his name. You are so upset over Obama and people who voted him in, calling them names no less... yet you're not apparently mature enough to really put out details of what somebody else should be doing better or who would you support.

Doesn't seem fair given how people running this country is a tad more significant than our happy little platform wars, now does it?

And given Obama has often continued Bush policies, and - look it up - used Romney's own advisers to craft "Obamacare" with, as even FORBES and FOX reported, if Obama was voted in by a bunch of critters... what does that make *you*, much less anyone else, who is a supporter of a competing politician OR a competing politician for all we know?

So the stage is set. Good luck in answering it. Especially since you brought in politics, don't get upset when people respond. If you don't, that just makes you just another critter.

You don't replace your BMW when the battery dies.

The "Apple is luxury" mantra is silly. It's the same off-the-shelf hardware and nothing that used to even remotely deserve the higher price tag. Only given a thinner case that traps heat (metal, as a container, traps heat more effectively than plastic, and as the metal of the case is NOT directly attached to the heatsink, any claim that these devices use the case to disperse heat is rubbish. Temperature readouts during benchmark tests between a Mac and comparable Windows laptop are very obvious in this. The Mac gets 20C+ hotter with ease. And if you use it for anything CPU-intensive, the long-term lifespan of the Mac is reduced as a result. Electronics do not like heat. Been there, done that... but I'm a techie and can't stand empty beliefs... I like how things work, but that's the curse of being a nerd...)

... jmhunter77's comment got so many negative votes just for saying "buy what you want". Wow. What a radical concept.

It's obviously not enough that some people dislike Apple and it's products. They have to make it their mission to try to convert would-be Apple customers to generic PC customers.

Good thing we're not talking religion or politics!

Mac users, who pay a lot for their versions of software and understandably so, are stuck with Apple - for betteer for worse.

The "buy what you want" concept is sold as being very simple.

Out here in real life, it really isn't, but some people will never be able to understand that.

Such people need to get outside and talk to people in industries, find out the cost to switch platforms and hardware... it, in many ways, is not cheap. Even if profit margins are currently well, the transition does add cost. "Buy what you want", "just switch, it's that simple" are the simple-minded certainties that guppies can understand but guppies did not create or have to flop around in our society.

... and do--with significantly-improved reliability.

Typical Apple tactics....do everything you can to control the OWNER of your 2nd rate devices.

This is as bad as the I-Phone which won't allow you to have a spare battery or to use SD cards for extra memory.

The one thing I've noticed over the years that whenever Apple make a change, like drop the floppy disk, bring in firewire, a large number of people say " this will never work or it won't take off " etc.
How many people out there really want to get into there computer and play around with it by themselves, I think that would be a small percentage.
I'm always happy to let the experts deal with any product that I own, be it a Tech. , Car, Household or whatever, they are trained to do it.

You're at their mercy, and happy to be there. They're doing this for your benefit, really. Don't worry your pretty little head about such details, they'll take care of your needs, just keep your wallet handy and don't venture outside the Apple store.

It is the way it will be, we like it or not. Computers are not going to be toys for technicians anymore (yes say it aloud - this overreactions are because we feel someone is taking a toy from us). And we were well paid for playing with these toys. It was like this with cars, it was like this with radio (yes there is still few real radio guys around :-D). Now it is coming to computers world. They are now just tools to be used.

I am working in IT now for more than 22 years. Building PCs, networks, now working on projects for 10.000+ companies. I was always HW fan, having the latest motherboard, processor and graphic card and so under my table. That stopped some 6 years ago.

I was wondering when finally computers will be like a TV set. You use it and you do not care too much what is inside. It needs to have good picture and sound, easy use, some connectivity. It was wonder for me, why users were willing to use so overcomplicated thing for all this years. IT grew up.

Now we go to this age of computers. They have plenty of power for almost everything we do. I count myself as pro. I did not change any RAM in my personal computers or notebooks for more then 5 years. I do not use CD drive in my notebook and barely in PC, save the BluRay for watching the movies and that was purpose why I bought it. I really barely use the ethernet in my personal NB (be it IBM ThinkPad - yes I keep it over new Lenovo - or be it HP EliteBook 8540w).

I am writing this from MacBook Pro 15" retina. Enjoying it. I know how to repair HW. If it happen and this one breaks - well I go to service as I do with my car when it needs more then change of oil or filters. (And yes, I know how to repair cars, was doing it for years for fun and with some old ones I still do).

World has changed and it is going to be more significant. Keep with it or slowly fade out of the game. It is like if the world is repeating the worlds of Ridick:
"There gonna be one speed - mine. If you can't keep up, don't step up, you'll just die."

What is behind my comprehension, are emotion towards Apple. You don't like it - do not buy it. But it is good to have Samsung, Apple, Sony, HP, Dell and so - if they compete - we will have most of the game.

If you call a product Professional IT people will have expectations. Re brand something for non IT people with a more appropriate name like (super fun, good looking power gadget thingy) then everyone will know what to expect.

Bottom line:
if the goal is to only make it look good. Name it good as well.

You see Apple is right. For you it keeps the line same powerful as MacPro retina, same upgradable as before. It has up to 1650x1050 display.
For me it has less weight, its more rigid and it omits some upgradability I never use (despite working as a pro for years). Therefore something for each of us. And for me they give retina bonus - good.

I agree, Apple is one of the first and it is provoking - but I am sure others will follow. Personal computing devices do change over time.

And I agree it is marketing as well. If they add retina as an option to normal MacPro line. How many people will upgrade to it? I do not think it will be enough to justify it. Like this - it simply speaks to another group of people. I was not crazy about old ProBook. This one speaks to me.

I already answered somewhere, that upgradability the way it was before is not longer needed.

IT is not in that definition. Doctors, Engineers, Executives--those are professionals. Technicians are Skilled Labor, a completely different class.

In most laptops it does not require any real expertise to replace ram, a battery, or even a hard drive. Laptops are just common tools, and that is precisely why this design is wrong at this price point. This is a step backward.
Personally I think Apple should concentrate on making their products durable before they seal the unit and make the hardware completely proprietary. Definitely this will be a marketing breakthrough for them if it sells.

As I wrote above. it took 10 yrs (1990 to 2000) to go from 1MB to 1000MB. It took another 10 yrs (2000 to 2010) to go from 1GB to 4GB. Now we use 8 or 16 - there is not urgent need for upgradability the way it was before. Only seems we did not notice yet. This is why I was using IBM ThinkPad or HP ElitBook. But despite the fact they were upgradable I never did it anyway.

Producers do see how many people upgraded their laptops. If it goes beyond certain point, it is not of any use to keep it. And yes I understand, that if it is your need, it makes you angry.

Me as pro I do not like to play with my tool for work anymore this way. I would like to have device which does its job. End of story. The fact it is done the way it is makes it lighter, more rigid (no doors and such). THIS is big advantage for me.
Pro line still keeps all you are asking for, upgradability - in 15" up to 1650 x 1050, Fireware, Ethernet, DVD and so. And it has same power as Retina. So why there is so much cry around Retine - it simple targets another group of people - for example me

But what about the battery? Every laptop user who keeps their machine more than a couple of years will have to replace a batter. Apple just made it impossible for you to do that.

Charles' point is right on the mark. Apple has always stepped up first to move technology along. They nixed the floppy drive and the world went bonkers. Do you have 3.5" floppies hanging around your desk anymore? No, they're long gone. It took a while for the rest of the industry to catch up, but I think Apple saw the writing on the wall and said "OK, let's do this." Brave move, but it worked out.

The Air was the next case of this that I recall. No optical drive. It's meant for going wireless. No tethers. No power, no Ethernet. Just the essentials, in your lap or on your desk. People screamed murder. When's the last time you put a data CD in your laptop? (For some, that's not a convincing argument. For them, there are other models...)

So now they do it again with the Ethernet port. Fact is, I barely ever use the Ethernet port in my laptop. At work, I dock it from time to time, but the dock has its own Ethernet controller.

I haven't upgraded RAM on a computer in years. I buy enough to start with, and it's usually enough until the computer itself is outdated. I rarely replace hard drives either -- same reason. Exception: My homebuilt NAS, which went from 1TB drives to 2TB drives, and is getting close to exceeding that now, too. Still running on 512MB RAM though. (Or was it 2GB? I don't remember. Its uptime is measured in months between power outages.)

For just about anything you might need to add, the industry has provided high-speed USB, Firewire, and now Thunderbolt. It's only "one more thing you have to carry" in your luggage, along with the battery charger, your shaver, and a bar of soap. Day to day? You can probably leave it at home.

Now the battery... Mixed feelings on that one. I've never replaced a laptop battery. By the time it was done-for, I was ready to upgrade anyway. I've never owned a secondary battery, and today's run times are so good it's getting impractical to bother. I suspect when you bring it in for service, there's a shortcut. Maybe they swap the entire panel. Wasteful, perhaps, but I'm sure it can be recycled easily enough. We're talking a once-in-four-years operation for most people, so it's hardly worth fussing over.

With all this in mind, I'm not surprised to see the engineers do what they did. Most user-service covers are never opened, and they present complexity in the build, extra tiny parts, and loss of structural integrity.

But mostly, Charles hit the nail directly on the head -- it's an appliance now. This is the way every mature technology goes, and now it's happening to computers. People just don't DIY anymore. They call The Guy.

Nor do I see where I ever will.

You miss a point. The battery is not replaceable. When it dies in 2~3 years, as Macs don't degrade as badly as Windows, the laptop is otherwise usable. Will you want to spend $200 for a battery or $2000 for a new Mac, especially if our economy remains in the hole?

That's right. $200.

This is indeed a step backward, and plenty of pesky nerds who like to know how things work knows Apple DOES have some QC and durability issues. I've mentioned them in light detail in previous responses, but iFixit, my2011macbookpro, PWN2OWN, product-reviews, and other web sources readily prove Apple is all hype in the "it's built well" department. It isn't. And with personal experience, any other Mac owner who claims otherwise will quickly have their claim shredded.

I started out agreeing with Bill Detwiler. Having no user replaceable/upgradeable components is bad. But then I read CharlesDR's response. Twice. I agree with him. My current laptop has had it's hard drive replaced with a larger hard drive 3 times. Nothing else has changed in the 4 years I've owned it. My main data growth is due to my being an amateur photographer. I could just as easily store my photos on the external HDD dock that's already connected to my laptop for backup purposes.

I remember the days when a memory upgrade involved purchasing discrete memory chips and inserting them in sockets on the motherboard or expansion card. When the motherboard manufacturer's started soldering the chips directly to the motherboard we saw in increase in reliability. We used to have to purchase discrete video display adapters, networks cards, modems, sound cards, etc. Once they were included in the motherboard chip set we saw another increase in reliability. Cost decreased.

Apple's latest move with this MBP continues this trend. I suspect reliability will increase. By the time the battery wears out the owner will be ready for the latest MBP. External HDDs are cheap and easy to install. I have a tablet computer with both WiFi and a wired jack. I can't remember the last time I used a wire. The tablet doesn't have a DVD drive. I have an external USB DVD drive when needed and I often use a USB flash drive.

CharlesDR is correct. A computer/laptop/tablet is just a tool. It's no different than a calculator, TV, radio, microwave, MP3 player, etc. Why add to the cost/complexity of a device to make it upgradeable when the majority of people replace instead of upgrade?

Same thing with cars. People used to travel with tire repair kits. I've heard stories from the 1920's where it wasn't uncommon to do an engine repair alongside of the road. Now we go 100,000 miles between tuneups.

So that the device has a longer useable life, which translates to greater value to the customer.
Unlike a calculator, TV, radio, microwave or MP3 Player, a computer is a device of significant cost, with modular parts that degrade at differing speeds. The parts that degrade fastest are considered "consumable" and can (usually) be (easily) replaced.
By designing the device itself to be consumable, the value of the device is decreased.
This structure is of financial benefit to Apple, not the customer.
. . . . It's also environmentally unsound, come to think of it.

By sealing the device Apple gives it a significantly longer useable life which does translate to a greater value to the customer; he doesn't have to waste money upgrading it every few months.

TVs are currently still very expensive devices but that's more due to the fact that the cost of making those huge displays reliable is still high and TVs with any real reliability and size still run in the thousand-dollar range. That said, LCD/LED sets in the 35" range now run about $200-400 where CRT sets in that size range ran $600+. The point is that with Apple you're still paying for a comparatively reliable appliance.

Yes, the structure is of financial benefit to Apple too--as well as the customer. If the customer doesn't have to have the device repaired, then Apple doesn't have to spend to repair it; it's of dual benefit. Name me any other smart phone model that has a 2% or lower return rate if you want to have an example.

Environmentally unsound? Nearly the entire Apple device is completely recyclable now compared to almost every other brand--making it far more environmentally sound than those other devices.

Nobody upgrades a computer every few months as you put it. That kool-aid you are drinking from Apple must affect higher reasoning and logic too. How can a sealed device ever offer longer usable life? One component breaks out of warranty and you are tossing it into the recycle pile. And did you really just trying to use a CRT TV as something to prove a point? Of course, I'm not even really sure what the point you were trying to make was.

Of course Apple's goal all along has been to create monolithic, solid-state computers. Their intentions were never to build a remove and replace platform. They aren't interested in selling you a spare tire when you get a flat, they want you to replace the entire car, every time.

Hardware always has a chance of failing no matter how good the manufacturer says it is. Just like almost all computer components, most of the Apple parts are made overseas (probably mostly in China) and nothing has 100% reliability forever. Parts WILL fail. The Macbook Pro comes with a 1 year warranty. What happens when the soldered RAM fails 18 months in? Oh darn now I have to buy another computer since I can't repair it. Oh so you protect your investment and spend the $350 for Applecare. That is only for 3 years. I expect for my hardware to be usable for more than 3 years, especially at the prices they are charging for Apple hardware.

Call me cheap if you want, but I just can't get on board with the BS so many subscribe to these days where I have to go out and get the latest and greatest new hardware when it comes out. It is ridiculous all those people lining up at the Apple stores on the iPhone release day just to upgrade the phone they purchased a year ago just so they have the new feature that Apple tells them they need to have.

In the EU all hardware manufacturers have to provide 2 years warranty at minimum. But agree with your point. I strongly believe that a lot of manufacturers explicitly select components that they know will fail within a certain time frame. Cost wise it is better but also to make sure there is a constant demand (if your product provides sufficient unique selling thingies) It is simply not interesting to make products that last a life time as they will be out of business after they sold every possible customer a device. I remember a shoe manufacturer that made shoes lasting 20 years. After 5 years no one bought their shoes anymore because they were happy with the ones they had. (Game over for the shoe company)