Discussion on:

Why Windows 8 has businesses in stitches

Working in the defense industry with national security information does not lend itself well to Tablets and the Windows 8 interface. We have just begun to integrate a few wireless devices for field work and they run on an entirely separate network than our secure systems. With 4000+ computers and most of them running some type of engineering software which consists of Bentley's Microstation platform, AutoDesk platform, or ProEngineer, you can't do CADD drawings on a tablet. We will definitely stay with Windows 7 and may have to move this work back to a UNIX platform if Windows 9 continues in the same direction as Windows 8.

Microsoft seems to be putting all their eggs in the consumer market basket and if it works for them that's fine. It just may be time for an alternative (Linux or a new UNIX) to step onto the scene in a major way.

I have Win 8 CP installed in a virtual machine on an i7 laptop, I limited the virtual machine to two cores and only 2GB RAM and I see no typing delay.

Basically MS redesigned the start menu so it takes up the whole screen and now call it "Metro UI" and allow some apps to run inside it. The desktop hasn't gone away. I'm typing this right now on a real keyboard and using a real mouse, not a touch screen, they didn't take away the ability to use keyboards and mice. I think most of the complaints that people keep posting are about issues that don't even exist, they just want a reason to grab their pitchforks and torches and attack something for not being the way that it always has been.

Windows releases since XP have been frustratingly cluttered IMO.

I'm interested in your comment. I think Windows 7 in particular has improved in this regard. Having all your application windows minimise down to a single icon in the taskbar is a massive improvement. I tend to have loads of Windows open and in XP that means loads of taskbar items.

If you're referring to Windows 8 I guess it's the Metro tiles you are referring to? I think that would be a strange concept too - those tiles are shortcuts to the programs you use most often. To me that's not clutter - that's putting useful stuff where you can easily get to it.

when you want to open just one of a few you have open. Anyway, other OSs have been doing this for a few years, but with the option to compact them or not.Haven't seen that option in Win 7 yet, but it may be around somewhere I've not yet looked.

Yes, there are settings for the taskbar to allow you to choose whether or not to compact multiple items into one button, or spread them all out like XP did. Also, with Aero Peek, you can just put your mouse over a "compacted" button, and it will show little previews of all the Windows that are open. Then you can easily select the exact Window you want to go to based on what you see in the preview Window.

Rick

I currently use the hover and select process, however it's not always that easy to pick the one you want when what you're looking at are all very similar. I sometimes end up opening two or three that aren't the one I want but look the same as the one I want in the preview window, but would have been easy to pick out if I had a tab with their name.

You're OLD.

What was your point?

Weird that you responded to a comment not directed to you. I guess this must be the center of the universe.

Was it weird when you replied to rayadair's comments? They weren't directed to you. It's an open forum. You posted a comment, I asked for more information. Isn't that how a forum works?

is that you find yourself responding when you thought one of your senior-home mates was being bothered. A senior citizen version of a gang is amongst us. LOL "We wanna be free! We wanna be free to do what we wanna do. We wanna be free to clicky-click. We wanna be free to clicky-click our keyboards without being hassled by The [Windows] Man!" LOL

You're the one who keeps bringing up age. I keep hoping you'll explain why without attempting to second-guess others. Why do YOU think it matters?

I have been in IT since the 80s. Heard the same thing to one degree or another. Actually I would have been shocked if I hadn't. During the Windows 3.x days it was 'Are people/businesses going to leave DOS for Windows...' During Windows 95 it was 'Are people/businesses going to adopt Windows 95...' Same for 98, ME, XP, Vista, 7 etc. Also the same for Windows NT 3.5. Are businesses going to adopt Windows NT 4.0, then 5.0 which was Windows 2000. When XP came out out it was would businesses leave Windows 2000 for XP.

The resounding answer is always no they won't, or in this case they laugh. Having been in the private sector I can tell you that company IT people and CIOs are rarely interested in jumping off the cliff so to speak and being an early adoptor. Most of the time it's wait until SP1 then see. Many reasons for that attitude. To list a few. 'Everything is running correctly and good, why rock the boat' or 'let somebody else be the early adopter' or 'we know our software works great on Windows X but we don't know if it will work as well on the new version' or 'we don't want to spend the money on the upgrade now with the economy...' and the list goes on and on.

I know many companies who skip a generation of Windows. So if they are on 7, they wait until Windows 9 comes out. That makes sense when you consider Windows ME and Windows VISTA.

So truly it is a rare oddity for some private corporation to be on the band wagon to be one of the first ones to race out and install Windows 8. What will happen is it will hit the consumer market and go from that point.

Cheers,
Robert

Most comments seem to assume that users cannot re-learn and change their habits. As if they didn't have personal computing devices at home which tend to be a lot more modern than at their workplace. The wider this gap becomes, the more frustrated the users, who prefer to bring in their own, up-to-date hardware. Be it pads or smart phones. Give them the latest keeps them happier in my experience and shows that you care.

Win 8 runs beautifully with any old and existing hardware and software and if you do not want to click on a title in Metro to launch an application, you might just learn to type a few letters (there is no need for finding a search box).

I am 81, and it took me some reading and less than an hour to learn my way around this new piece of gear. As so many times before in over 30 years in the computing business. You actually have to play with the stuff before you diss it. I am ashamed of you youngsters - get with it!

a case of many not wanting to learn new stuff as they prefer what they're familiar with, and of business not wanting to have to PAY for them to learn the new stuff, even if the bill is only a period of lost productivity while they learn, especially when there is no clear benefit of increased productivity afterwards.

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Productivity isn't just measured in workers learning a Metro UI over their Start menu. Workers tend to work at the same speed in their jobs. Reporters probably typed the same speed whether on PC or typewriter. The benefits are in new systems having improved network communications, requiring fewer security patches, having tighter code, displaying graphics better on screen, taking advantage of existing and new hardware devices (even for things like printers). The stuff behind the UI tends to be more important in improving our computing experience. It's even possible an existing OS never properly used the resources you had in that computer you're using.

nt

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nt

Wait a minute... in another post you where whining about how hard it would be for you to learn to press Ctrl-Esc on your keyboards that don't have a Windows key... and now you are suggesting everyone should dump Windows and move to Linux?

Seriously?

Rick

Though last I saw, Control + Escape still opened the Gnome and KDE menus.

Seems to do the same thing in Windows as pressing the Windows key does. In another post, Ernest said it would be too difficult for him to remember that.

Rick

my keyboard is a microform one that does NOT have a Windows key or media keys. So it's more than pushing the Windows key that is NOT there.

that looks and works the same, so instead of going to Metro you can got to Linux with the interface you're currently using. Heck, they even have a Win 2000 / classic interface.

In that situation people don't have to learn anything new at all, just stay with with what they have.

So you're saying Linux works exactly the same as Windows? The Control Panel and all the settings and all the applications are exactly the same? All the "command prompt" commands (e.g. ipconfig, sfc, chkdsk, etc.) are all exactly the same? People can switch to Linux and not have to learn anything new at all?

That sure wasn't my experience with Linux, but I'm sure you know much more than I do about this stuff...

Rick

average users than you are, as all they care about is what it looks like and does it still open the apps the way they're used to - they do NOT get at any of the behind the scenes stuff, that's left to techies. With things like GUIs etc I try to see the differences from the perspective of my clients, and also from the perspective of what extra it provides. What I've seen of Win 8 so far gives nothing extra and the Metro GUI only causes more trouble and a need to retrain people, so it's not an improvement for the clients.

Purchasing keeps turning down my request for a cattle prod.

nt

Right next to your homemade AR-15 and custom molded kevlar outfit, huh?

Ernest's comments were directed toward me, not you. Is it weird when you reply to comments not directed toward you, or only when others do it?

You don't find it just mildy disturbing? Homemade cattle prod... Not just a little disturbing?

when you need one and are working on a property about five hours drive from the nearest place you can buy one. Well, I got news for you, people who work on farms and properties and very used to having make do with a lot of things and often end up making home made versions of items you can buy in a store simply to save either time or money or they just aren't readily available enough.

Mind you, just about every item ever invented started off with a home made versions.

and we each know when the other is joking. I didn't know if you were joking in your reply to rayadair above. That's why I asked you to explain your comment further.

Since I know he was joking, I find his comment no more disturbing than my preceding one suggesting that business users could only learn new habits under threat of electrocution. I'm the one who first mentioned a cattle prod, not Ernest; how could I find it disturbing? Your upping the ante to firearms implies you also didn't find it too disturbing to prevent your participation either.

a stick, and two wires set on the end of the stick so that contact of the wires with the target allows the current to flow and stimulate their muscles and nervous system. very handy when working with cattle on a farm property - as I have in my younger days.

You are exactly right in all of your comments. The attitude in this forum that users are too dumb to learn anything new is a poor attitude to take. The attitude that older people can't learn anything new is completely wrong. People like you and my mom prove that point.

Thanks for your comments!

Rick

caused by stupid things like forcing people to have ONLY the Metro interface on their computers. Happens a lot with average users being faced with a major change by MS without thinking about the users.

MS DID think about the users and they DID design Windows 8 to be easy to use. Undoubtedly, there will be some confusion at first, but in the long run, people will learn how to take advantage of the enhanced interface.

Besides, gettng called out to fix issues is our job, as "IT Pros." It's what our clients and employers pay us to do. What's so bad about doing what you are getting paid to do? Perhaps a career change is in order, if you don't like what you are doing now?

Rick

Never test the waters with both feet!

Nick, you don't know what the term "in stitches" means, do you?

Oh yeah, they are the ones who haven't made a decent market prediction in the last several years.

Since TechRepublic doesn't like me posting a link, I'll just say head on over to zdnet and search for an article titled "Why does the IT industry continue to listen to Gartner?" Its full of examples where Gartner's market predictions are wrong in the extreme. They may find Win8 adaption in the enterprise "laughable" but I laugh at their track record.

Or are they like Nostradamus and the US Federal Reserve?

You so funny