Discussion on:

How to navigate Start in Windows Server 2012

It's like Microsoft are deliberately making the GUI painful to use to force everyone to switch to Powershell. Thing is for vast majority of server admins Powershell is just a PITA, they don't do enough routine admin jobs to warrant scripting and infrequent tasks are generally much better handled via a GUI which not only can incorporate validation and warnings much easier but also allows the admin to check things as he's going (like security group names) rather than gather all the info in advance.

They want the 'power-user' nerds to take them more seriously, because without the serious CLI of a *NIX system, you're not a 'real' admin or super-user, right? But they also want the 'Computers for Dummies' crowd that are flocking to tablets and the like for the 'easy to use' interface that serves up their Email and 'Angry Birds' apps.

In trying to be all things to all people, they're rapidly becoming nothing for anybody. If anything, this will push MORE people towards Mac and the other alternatives. We went from 'Start Button' -> 'Shutdown' to 'Invisible Area' ->
'Settings on Charms Bar' -> 'Power' -> 'ShutDown'? I can sort of see this on a Server OS, but if it's the same on Windows 8...*Shakes head* How do you intuitively conclude that turning off the system is a 'setting'?!? Maybe they're also trying to coax us to leave our computers on 24/7? Because why wouldn't we, I guess...

...is that powershell appeared to me (when Microsoft showed me how to use it in a product demo that I went to) to be a way of making IT systems jobs very specialized so we could all master this stupid piece of software and then say to employers how wonderful we are. Which everyone thought was a backward step because it was like going back to DOS but hey, at least it would keep us in a job.

Few years later, now they're trying to put us out of a job with the "cloud" and they think developers are all that matters.

It's all revenue driven, okay make administrators Gods then they'll thank us by buying our software because it's so specific, oh we can't make any more money out of that, let's move to a subscription based licensing model and call it the "cloud", oh Apple is killing us with the iPad, let's make Windows work better on tablets because we can't sell anything more to enterprises, etc.

Microsoft has just created this monster that needs to be kept fed with large amounts of money and so they keep lurching from one thing to another, it'll be interesting to see what happens if Windows 8 is a major flop as most people are predicting.

Businesses have realized that people owning an item only leads to the initial sale of the item, though a subscription brings in constant money since you never really own anything. Another option is vendor lock in, such as Apple's model where all sales go through Apple. Some may take a hybrid approach. Microsoft big play is to get people into the cloud so they can use the subscription based model. IT Administrative jobs will dwindle with this model as more things are centralized though you need applications so developers will grow. Microsoft seems to be limiting Partners, OEMs, etc and attempting to funnel more things through them. Microsoft never really seems to create anything new but just copies what works for others, in this case they are following Apple. That seems to only leave the Linux model as giving people the freedom of choice without subscriptions and vendor lock in.

"If youre using a keyboard, getting to the Start screen in Windows Server 2012 is as simple as pressing the Start button." I'm sorry but my keyboard doesn't have anything labeled "Start." I had the dame problem when they switched to the "Office Button." I guess I'm a little dense. Don't assume I already know what you are taking about. Thank you.

Has MS rebranded the 'Windows' key?

I just made a mistake. After all, I am human

Scott

I wondered if this was another change I missed. Thanks for the clarification.

Windows 8 is the ugliest interface I have ever seen in my life
How this made it to the public is a definite result of Microsoft dominance in the market place, this pig would of been laughed out of any board room anywhere. We have been using MS products forever, except for Windows ME and Vista. No one is going to convince me that this interface is easier or more elegant than the previous one, I have eyes. Most people are not going to use a touch screen, I just do not understand why you would force all of your users to use a touch interface with a keyboard...OH that's right your the 800 lb Gorilla.....

and now a "Charms Bar"? When will Microsoft realize that "Server" software should have fewer clicks to get the task at hand done, and no, mouse overs and hidden icons are not helpful.

The really scary part is that most often these "new" paths to functions open the same old dialog box we had with XP and Server 2000. Sad.

Go to desktop mode and use powershell and the command prompt which is what Microsoft seem to be forcing us to do. Or use a Windows 7 client with RSAT (which I assume will be updated slightly for Server 2012).

The reality is though that even the most hardcore server admin has to use the console on the server at least occasionally, in fact more occasionally over time, so picking up familiarity with this mess of a UI will be even harder.

I had the same problem with the shutdown commands by the way, also the power settings. Use the shutdown command from the run box was my preferred way, and the power settings are still in control panel in desktop mode, what a PITA to get to them though.

Anyway there are only a few genuinely new features in 2012 worth having, one of which is SMB3 and you need Windows 8 on the clients to leverage most of them. I think I can cope with 2012 on a filing server but that's about it. Unfortunately the licensing model is better for 2012 so I know clients are all going to want it because it sounds cheaper.

If you really NEED to reboot the server that often, or, if you're like me and like to reboot your workstation once a day, just make a shortcut with the command "shutdown.exe -r -t 0 -f". It's not that hard guys. I'm still trying to get used to Win8, I like my highly tweaked Win7 workstation, but if I'm going to continue to support a corporate MS environment then I have to learn to deal with Server 2012 and eventually Win8. Whining about how bad it is isn't going to fix it. And PowerShell ain't that bad.

Both Windows 8 and, now that I've seen it, Server 2012 looks like it was truly made for the computer illiterate. I've used Windows since 3.0 and remember how flat and 2-D everything looked. Through the years backgrounds, icons, etc. started to become more 3-D looking. Now, in order to sell another bell-and-whistle upgrade to Windows, it's been dumbed downed to look like a cell phone with a color palate of 1 color. Woo Hoo - makes me really want to run out and get it - NOT. What were they thinking making Server look that stupid? It's not supposed to look like a stupid cell phone. Microsoft need to get their techs out of their cubicles once in a while and see a real 3-D world again.

I have not tried "Metro" interface hands-on, but from reading this post it seems to me that it
- may be fairly well suited for touchscreens on tables
- somewhat worse for touch-enabled larger screens - I have much experience using touchscreens, and having to hold out your arm to reach different areas on the screen is an ergonomic nightmare, not to mention, tires you out
- poorly suited for mouse users, where you need to move the mouse all over the screen in order to perform basic tasks
- absolutely horrible for when you have to use a rack-mounted KVM console with a tiny trackpad, which as a system admin I have to do on more than one occasion - moving cursor to the right locations on screen will be a nightmare
Previously, Microsoft have been good at making functions accessible in multiple ways - some, menu/toolbar better suited for novice users, others for power users (e.g. right-click menus) or keyboard shortcuts. I hope They will return to this philosophy with regards to the user interface.

That's a new moto of the Microsoft. They took "not perfect" interface of W7 and done the usual - made it suck more. I'm not a big fan of moving around with mouse and clicking menus myself, it is always being Window + R and typing required command there, or Start and typing inside search box (e.g. real improvement in W7). And I suppose new interface won't affect my life very much, but come on...
But, really guys? What's the reason for my grandma to take computer courses again? She just got used to the W7 interface few months ago...

So, making Server look more and more like a toy. Only Microsoft would think the metro interface is any kind of improvement. Sort of reminds me of Bob. Useless.

It's really pathetic - especially on a server - when you have to play around to find something on a server.
Think of this: There is a major issue with a server. It's causing [for example] clients to shut vdown. You get on the server but because you are in a major rush, you are fumbling your way in trying to solve the problem but have to figure out the formerly-named Metro interface.

Perhaps it might be a good idea to spend a few minutes learning how the new interface works, before you are faced with a major issue in a production environment?

I don't know, I guess I'm just an old-fashioned computer guy...

Rick

just as soon as it looks like I'm going to have it inflicted on me.

While I question the overall interface decision, unlike Windows 8, I see Windows Server 2012 as a must-have over time. It has a boatload of improvements over older versions. I definitely don't see it as an negative option at all.

Scott

While I agree that using what was called Metro on a server is just a crap idea I also have to question how often some of you guys are rebooting your servers? There are other issues you should be concerned about if you are rebooting (or shutting down) your servers more than a few times a year.

And PSEXEC will continue to work fine with 2012 as it has with 2k, 2k3, 2k8 etc. we'll probably never have to use the stupid "Metro" interface anyway.

Saying that, once I have a Surface Pro (or equivalent) it may be kinda nice to have the same UI when I'm RDP'ing to a server...

after installing MS updates.

Always include a restart button...

Any other instances where the option to restart will be difficult to find, once a month?

"Always include a restart button..."

No, updates for previous version of Windows Server have always included a Restart button. As we're seeing, the past doesn't always predict the future.

I'm getting a restart button today on my 2012 server once the updates are installed.

Sure, everyone can bash it ... and I'm just as tempted, "but" I did enjoy server "core" with powershell for performance and security reasons (he says trying to add something positive to the comment rack). 2012??!? I do not like what I'm seeing either! I'm already starting on my Linux Redhat re-certification and will NOT be using 2012 in my corp environment. Another flop as far as I'm concerned.

Using a pre-school interface on a server. Is this a joke? How can MS expect to be taken seriously in the server business with this crap? Maintaining servers is enough of a chore now. The Unix/Linux guys will be laughing their a**es of when they see this. Windows admins take enough crap as it is from them. As was mentioned by someone else, trying to fumble through this ridiculousness in a hurry is not going to make you look good.

Why would they add additional steps to complicate the server interface? Administrators don't need a pretty interface, they need one that is easy and quick to navigate. And if "Windows Server 2012 doesnt actually include the WinRT/Metro runtime that enables Metro apps to execute under Windows 8," maybe it's time to fork the desktop and server OS.

Its pretty cool since you can easily bring back the functionality that has been there for decades, and which Microsoft thinks that we dont need anymore???
It can be used in W8 and Server 2012
see http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/index.html

This bringing the "Smartphone", "Tablet" to the desktop is for the next generation of dumb admins who will not be able interact with a system unless it has pictures provided to show them what to click. Microsoft are dropping the ball more and more with their interface design. They tried to appeal to the Nix crowd with Server Core but never really pushed it. Now this.

More clicks and less direct control, and this is better how MS???

I thought we put the 'screen full of icons' UI to bed when we got rid of Windows 3.1. Now its back, but with hidden 'Charms' and a crippled desktop that has to be navigated to. Once you're there, don't bother trying to launch anything from the Start Menu; you have to go back to the 'Charms' bar again to find the (don't call it Metro) start screen.

At least this new UI will make it easier to run Windows 2012 on my tablet servers.

i'm a big MS fan. i love metro for my windows phone. i love the idea of metro on desktops/tablets and all using same code to deploy to all 3. but forcing metro is a prick move. its like having a toy car, gocart, and fullsize car all sharing the same engine. and the reasoning behind it is because with minor tweaks, u can use the same engine in all 3. so we will strip down the functionalities of the full size car so that it can use the same engine as my toy car. just stupid. why not allow the same engine but allow a full size 800horse power engine in the full car if the user prefers that. don't take away what isn't broken. especially something that is loved by millions of their users. i bet they spent alot of time and money trying to take out the code for the start menu when its easier for them and better for all to leave it in. i always loved MS for their advanced options when compared to apple's "1-3 options per screen so not to confuse the simple minded kids under 5 and older retired crowd and others who are simply computer illiterate or just those who see too many options and hyperventilate" MENTALITY. in the past, MS kept it as simple as possible for most users to understand while still embracing the advanced users. but with the rise of apple in the recent years, and how apple is winning overall since they design for the dummies and made a name for themselves caterring to the masses and telling them what they can or can't do and restricting them (part of my frustration with apple) is now a frustration i see in MS. i seriously don't see why MS had to force metro in desktop and especially server. MS was always about choice in the past. if u want to see advanced features, u can always do it and had shortcuts or ways to custumize the UI so u can do more with less clicks. now i'm spending so much time trying to figure out simple things as shutting down my computer disabling a service. don't get me wrong, the engineers have done a great job on the backend with some neat new technology. especially hyperV and IIS and i was so excited to start playing with it, but my frustration of navigation is really making it tough to enjoy and a waste of time. one thing i really really really hate right now (and some of u have pointed out) is having to mouse over the top right corner cuz it seems to be maybe 10pixel area so i have to move around a few times and wait another full second till i find the right spot for that charm bar to show up. i want buttons for "instant no questions asked" access. stop forcing gestures which is only accurate sometimes. also the interface of server 2012 looks very half baked, especially the color scheme of new task manager. i'm hoping 2012 R2 brings back the start menu i might have to jump to ubuntu/linux. vista was a flop, but they learned from their mistake and came out with win7. i'm sure win8 is the same situation so i'm gonna hold off for the next version.

This sh*t makes me want to rip out my eyeballs and feed them to Steve Ballmer.