Discussion on:

The sitting duck that is open source

U.S. MegaCorporations can contribute to their political campaigns

nt

There is a MUST for Industry STANDARDS - like IEEE, Open Source etc!
Only then users will be happy and manufacturing can live...
TCP/IP did it when there were a lot of proprietaries - who remebers DECnet or AppoloDomain?
or IBM's SNA?
But - money makes world go around - so SW developers have to make money or to find some kind of paradize where they can live while inventing new Open Source goodies for mankind
Pitty - but communizm also isnt a workable solution...

are such standards, but some companies like Microsoft and Apple choose to ignore the standards.

no text

Waiting for Washington Apples (http://www.bestapples.com/) to sue or get sued for the logo.

Now that would be funny.

If you are the religious sort, that would be God. In that case, it will be taken care of in the afterlife. And if you are not, then you are at the mercy of the courts and political payoffs (whoops, I meant campaign contributions).

After the smoke clears and the dust settles the lawyers ALWAYS win!

posted this on a similar post on ZDNet
_

no one wins here . . .
what Apphole is forgetting is that Samsung is also one of the large SDRAM / Flash RAM chip etc. Manufacturers

you don't think that a bump in RAM prices won't happen as a result of this?
that little bump in RAM prices will hurt everyone
from the major OEM System Mfg to the consumer looking to upgrade

lawsuits like this never benefit anyone but lawyers

a lot of the HDD mfg. also use Samsung RAM for the Cache-RAM on the PCB
when that little 8, 16, 32, 64MB chip doubles in price you think the HDD price won't go up in drastic proportion as well

look at the prices over the flooding in Thailand,
WD, Seagate, never lost any facility, only access to / from the facility was lost

so with the little interruption in production they raise prices to nearly double what they were pre-flood and are still milking it
I just received recently, new HDDs with Thai stickers on them with post flood mfg. dates
so they're back in business and now just milking the market
_

they won't take it lying down and they'll pass the expense of this on to the consumer

Hey, its like everything else. Once the people start paying the new price, it continues as long as people pay it or until a competitor lowers their price. Of course, oil, insurance, etc. companies are an exception to competitive pricing when they are pretty much in lock-step at the pump, premiums, etc. Gasoline is nearly $4/Gal. and this is pre-Isaac, I suspect before the week is over, it will be over $4,

It seems "Who Am I Really" speaks about cartel of disk manufacturers. But this isnt official (like OPEC) and there are competing technologies (i.e. - flash memory) so it is temporary - even if it takes too long. Standards are just the opposite - they help both consumers and manufacturers. And standards can/must be upgraded - at least to adapt somthing new & usefull.
Market (in the log run) votes for the best for the market - laws included (not sure about the lawyers )

I was getting these Samsung HDDs:

> Samsung HN-M101MBB Spinpoint M8 2.5" Internal Hard Drive - 1TB, SATA 3G, 8MB, 5400 RPM

for under $95.00 USD a couple of months ago

now for the same disk they're charging $110.00 USD

it's not like the unit has changed any
and my guess is if I ordered another it would have a Mfg. date from over 2 months ago

very surprised how they've been fluctuating, especially the US dollar

it doesn't do currency conversion, and the price on the page is the raw unit price

to see what the the exchange converted price is you have to change the site
it's .com for the US site
it's .ca for Canada site

and to see the shipped price you have to add it to the cart
and enter your ZIP / Postal Code on the checkout page

looking at the .ca site those units are now $127. + T & S
they were $102. + T & S 2 months ago

I have a B2B account, so I get lower shipping rates,
my last $1,400.00 order (Aug.29) Shipping was only $10.00 for 20x 2.5" HDDs that's Fifty Cents each for shipping

That most HDD are made in Thailand, not sure about the Samsung ones as I don't have one here to look at, at the moment but they had a flood there and while most factories where not directly flooded except for the Seagate one they where Cut Off and could not get supplies in or completed goods out even if their workers could get to them to work.

The US $ been all over the place recently but along with a shortage of supply that does drive up the prices. The last time I looked about a week ago every Drive was more expensive than what they where 6 months ago but much more importantly they where in much shorter supply.

Col

- the 6x 1TB units I have
are all labeled: SAE Magnetics Ltd. / China

WD are coming from Thailand, Malaysia

Hitachi are coming from Thailand, China

Seagate are coming from China, (I haven't received any from Thailand since the 2008 7200.11 firmware bug )

I don't blame Apple - or any other company - for defending their patents. They would in fact be neglecting their duties to their shareholders if they didn't do so.
What I fail to understand is why many of these patents were granted in the first place. I think the US legislature needs to take a long hard look at US patent law, and re-consider the meaning of the word "invention".

nt

I had a discussion with friends (who are HUGE Apple fans) about this over the weekend. It was their opinion the the law suit was about the hardware and not the software. If it was software related, wouldn't Apple's lawsuit be against Google?

This should not in any way be construed as support the satin's Apple's position. I do not own any Apple devices and don't like Apple devices.

Some blame also needs to be pointed at the US Patent office for granting patents on IP that should be obvious to anybody. Hey, wait. I need to get in on this action. I used to be an electrical engineer and designed machines with "Start" buttons before MS put one in Windows. Where is my lawyer's number again .....

The patents Samsung "violated" are :
381. Drag, twist, rotate, pinch & zoom.
915. Scroll with one finger & I believe bounce back.
163. Tap to zoom.
305. Icon grid.
667 & 087. External appearance including the infamous rounded corner rectangle.

Samsung's patents that Apple violated included the email, multitasking & 3g, All of which were rejected as industrial standards, ( as per other international court judgments).
I hope this is accurate & clarifies , there is another Patent which Samsung was cleared on.

Sorry but I would like to use this as an opportunity to add my feelings & impressions from a UK perspective of the trial to the discussion.

I do not blame Apple for defending its IP, this is business, but it is the US patent office who should be sued for holding it self & US legal system up to international ridicule& anger for issuing to the trivial & bleeding obvious. There is also a growing suspicion of trade protectionism here, Apple is obviously important to the US economy ( despite unfounded speculation & clearly mistaken (legal) tax evasion through clever accountancy showing lower than expected profits (I couldn't possibly say that they could hive it to off shore tax havens rather than overseas industrial development or deprive the home economy of revenue, no never) & Wall Street (add this to distrusted Global legislative "security"rules governing ITAR & Dollar trade transactions) .
They should be reminded, by policy reform, that patents are primarily there to encourage innovation, not for other goals that stifle development & waste resources on litigation. It sadly looks as if Apple was intimidated by a loss of innovative capacity, so had to resort to litiation (again).

To ensure a win, they chose a federal court as close to home as possible in Silicon Valley & within 10 miles.

Samsung really were the underdog from the start, since the impression is, that Steve Jobs seams to be regarded in the US, as the patron saint of innovation & design, since he apparently single handily, changed the computer world & then went on to do the same to the mobile one.

Add to this jurors tend to side with the patent holders & award higher damages,

Its a foreign company vs local one in tough economic times.

Jurors were given an unmanageable task of 100 pages of instructions by the judge, that would tax most legal students to assimilate in time given. So an emotive rather rational verdict likely ( who could blame them, I'm sure they did their level best not too and do not doubt or question their integrity in such difficult circumstances)
Was the result in any real doubt!
But was this really fair or even justice?

Samsung still may console itself with an appeal & that $1 billion isn't bad for use & chance to develop the patents that Apple wouldn't let them use if they had asked for a licensing deal first off, (a bargain compared to MS Skype, & Google's Motorola deals! & the rumored $30-50/unit Apple subsequently asked for)
I wonder if Apple have really considered all of the consequences.
Power corrupts & absolute power is even more fun!
Well, hope the lack of choice & Apple tax will be as much fun as MS's, after all they who could really win from a hobbled Android!

Rant over, time to batten down hatches & await incoming!
No, second thoughts, beam me up Scottie.
What, you can't you say, because Apples patented that as well your tablet. & my communicator they want back, oh b*ll*cks.

I can't disagree with most of what you wrote, but remember China has a huge stake in this too (since Apple does it mfg over there) and since China "owns" the US (finances a significant part of its debt anyway) and backs North Korea, so no reason to have a successful South Korean company. Besides Apple and Microsoft have cut a number of cross licensing deals (and who knows what other deals) and even though competitors, will still crawl into bed with each other when deemed necessary. Besides, I suspect Apple is gambling on the preponderance of negative reviews on Microsoft's Metro, that it will be a flop.

You are right on when you speak about the Star Trek issue. They were a long time ahead and quite frankly it is very well provable that they were, it was on screen! Samsung should rally entities like this to return fire on Apple for their infringement.

Apple has a long history of stealing from others. Took from Xerox and MIT's Project Athena and miraculously has won several lawsuits over it.

What they fail to recognize is that all these lawsuits really do is to stifle creativity and actually retard improvement in the UI.

Ever used to read Dick Tracy (when Chest Gould created it). Wrist radios followed by wrist TV, the "wrist computer", the "Wrist Genee" (an I-Phone) and other innovations created by eccentric millionaire (billionaire), Diet Smith, "He who controls magnetism, controls the world.".

IP law has gotten so ridiculous that it doesn't matter if it is open source, closed source, or just a thought in your brain, I am certain it infringes someone and you will be sued for it. IP in general is a antiquated idea who's time has past. IP only slows and stifles innovation at this point, which is the opposite of what it was intended to do. IP is used as a safe harbor. No longer does an idea have to be unique and non-obvious, it is really sad.

One day, and that day may come sooner than people think, the system will fall under it's own weight. In the Smartphone arena the showdown is coming, and it is likely to be between Google and Apple.

Google bought Motorola for the patents, but that also gives them production facilities, so while Samsung and the rest of the Android makers could cow to Apple. Google probably will not and will be in the same position Microsoft is trying for. The position of manufacturing the hardware, developing the software and marketing the device. The difference is Android has like 60% market share while Microsoft has like 3%. But Google is no Samsung, and will fight because it has a lot to lose (access to all your tracking data). That will be an interesting fight, one that Apple obviously wants to avoid. So does Microsoft, that is why they are 'licensing' protection from infringement lawsuits, despite never having actually even fought the fight to prove there is infringement.

I have owned an Apple iPhone (3GS), I will NEVER buy another Apple device, not for me, my family, or my workplace. Good luck with that Apple, let's see how it works out for you in the long haul.

heh. The attitude of it all goes along with past behavior i.e. Steve Jobs's shrieking at people he was angry with, and the corporate arrogance and greed. It could have been any company, it just happened to be Apple. Steve Jobs is gone, no more unique ideas. Now the cash flow will be by suing. Will Apple next sue the heavens for shining the sun on the display?

Apple has won it's suit vs Samsung and will seek to ban import of certain models of phones.
Google bought Motorola Mobility and patents.
Motorola Mobility unit said it filed a new patent-infringement case against Apple Inc. (AAPL) claiming that features on some Apple devices, including the Siri voice-recognition program, infringe its patents.
The case seeks a ban on U.S. imports of devices including the iPhone, iPad and Mac computers. Apples products are made in Asia.
Snowballs chance IMHO, but who knows!

Where did apple get its OS from originally?

The location was in California. All the jury you'll find there will favor apple and so this result is the logical outcome. Had it been held at a neutral place the outcome would have been different. Even the lawsuit in Korea was more neutral, where both companies came out at least partly guilty. Also, juries are something of the past that should long ago have been banned from all courts. You need people with common sense and who know something of the issues at hand to decide on such cases, and not a bunch of probably mostly illiterates.

...but please learn the difference between "effect" and "affect".

Looks as if Apple has pulled off a major coup over Samsung, is this anything to do with the court
being in the U.S. or the jury not fully understanding the technicalities of the arguments?
Why don't Samsung just say " We're not going to supply any more chips to Apple"
Maybe Apple would become a LOT more reasonable if Samsung did this?
Personally, this means that I will never, ever, buy an Apple product.

I think Apple has to tread lightly with Open Source since from what I understand much of iOS was originated from the Open Source BSD project.

The only way of stopping this disgusting use of the patent system to destroy innovation is to NOT BUY APPLE. It's all glossy repairable trash. Don't buy it.

Apple have compromised repairability for style, recently they have appear to have had an extensive lean engineering exercise to cut parts count to streamline production & so cut costs. This appears to be achieved by soldering & bonding major components like ram, screens, batteries & hard drives in place, making upgrade & local repair difficult/ impossible, driving you back to the Apple store where you are deprived of its use for 2 weeks + a bill, or they say its your liability & offer to sell you another! It would be Ok if the new manufacture reduced prices, extended warranty in scope & time, does it? Nope just increases Apples profits at our expense, small compensation for high recyclability! If a manufacturer produces in a way that is in conflict to ones personal values, preserve your integrity, send a small message back by buying one that, does. Saddly most only know & consider the immediate price, and choose to ignore the true cost.
If this is their attitude with competition, what is it going to be like if they litigate all others out of the market, and back to a relatively cosy relationship with MS?

Patenting software metaphors, and product styling is worse than a company being able to patent my genome if they should map it. But this is what you should expect when you elect millionaire lawyers to political office.

I can see that Samsung might not be able to get patents on its products, but why could Apple? Apple didn't invent or introduce the touchscreen, the rectangle, the glass panel, or any of the electronics. Dropping, dragging and docking were features of software years before Apple made its first phone or tablet. Put aside the telephone label. The iPhone and iPad are just small computers with wireless capability. Paramont Pictures popularized these concepts in the 1960's and 70's, though they had been around in scifi books for decades. Thus the concepts were already obvious to the entire communications industry, and inevitable once components became small enough before Apple introduced the macintosh.

All it will take to bring down Apple, is someone de-compiling their code and showing that it uses open source code within its software construction, patenting it in violation of the conditions of use.

"35 U.S.C. 103 Conditions for patentability; non-obvious subject matter.

(a) A patent may not be obtained though the invention is not identically disclosed or described as set forth in section 102 of this title, if the differences between the subject matter sought to be patented and the prior art are such that the subject matter as a whole would have been obvious at the time the invention was made to a person having ordinary skill in the art to which said subject matter pertains. Patentability shall not be negatived by the manner in which the invention was made."

Consumers don't care about these issues. Getting a small part of the public to care about dolphins is hard enough. Getting a teenager/young adult to give intelectual property laws any thought isn't going to happen.
You might get people to care about the workers at FoxComm, but I am not certain that the supply chain for hardware running open source is any better.
Somehow a compelling and selfish reason for liking open source has to grab the imagination of the consuming public.

If you're not happy with the judgment, stop buying Apple product.

How can I stop buying apple products when I have never bought apple products?