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I agree. Just think if all the databases in the world used that same concept rather than some kind of Index hierarchy to locate items? The menu system is nothing more than an "indexed database", to assist for faster access of stored items. Granted, a "random access" database will get you there faster IF you know the location. Of course, with HUD, if you have to type in a "long name", by the time you are done typing (without TYPOS), I have already had it running by clicking on the menu, even if I had to go down a couple of levels.
The problem with Unity is that to use the HUD, it forces you to use the Apple style menu at the top of the screen. That "feature" obviously apes the Mac interface, which may have been OK in the 80's with the small screen of the Mac Plus, but nowadays it's an anachronism, adb one of the reasons I will not get a Macintosh. Who wants to move the mouse cursor away from the applicaiton window all the way to the top of the screen? It's even worse if you have multiple monitors, you may have to move the mouse to the another monitor entirely. A lot of people at my company have three monitor setups, in this case Unity/HUD would be unworkable. Also HUD requires modifiaction of the appications, so if you enable HUD and an application doesn't support it, you will have the menu for that app inside the app window, while the other HUD aware apps have their menu at the top of the screen. This violates one of the principles of good UI design - consistency. So no, I will not "drink the Kool Aid", and use Unity/HUD.
I am not sure if you are talking about HUD or the global menu.
HUD can be brought up with the Alt key, type in the command you are looking for, hit the down arrow to the selection you want and hit Enter.
The Global Menu, though, puts the menu for the active window in the top panel and I can see how it would be a pain with multiple monitors. I'm setting up a multiple-monitor system and immediately discounted Unity or Gnome shell for KDE (with Xfce as my fallback).
HUD can be brought up with the Alt key, type in the command you are looking for, hit the down arrow to the selection you want and hit Enter.
The Global Menu, though, puts the menu for the active window in the top panel and I can see how it would be a pain with multiple monitors. I'm setting up a multiple-monitor system and immediately discounted Unity or Gnome shell for KDE (with Xfce as my fallback).
Cinnamon (Linux Mint) much easier to deal with for someone like me trying to wihdraw from Gnome 2.
I see all of your points, but I couldn't get used to unity. I ended up switching to Kubuntu, because it is familiar.
Maybe I'm an old dog and unity is a bunch of new tricks!?
Maybe I'm an old dog and unity is a bunch of new tricks!?
Unity is Gawd awful. And the desktop transparency makes it even worse. I was playing with Unity earlier today. I stopped after a few minutes because the transparency was literally making me feel ill. Can you imagine trying to get anything done in the real world where you see a fuzzy view of whatever is behind any piece of paper you are looking at? Completely and utterly moronic. If you want eye candy, Mint Linux is much better. If you simply want to get from point A to point B with the least amount of distraction, Ubuntu 10.04 is the way to go.
I've tried for the past year to get Unity to work for me but I can't. I'm not talking about bugs but just the method of use. I have a desktop that is still running 10.04 which I like (I'm an old Unix guy after all!) and I installed 12.04 on my laptop. I keep trying to make my laptop useful and I can't.
The problem is my preferred way of working. What I do is set up multiple workspaces. I tend to work on 4-5 things at the same time at any given time so I put each of those tasks into a different workspace. Switching between them is easy and works fine on both 10.04 and Unity but I run into a wall when I want to put something like a browser window into a workspace. I can certainly do that but as soon as I leave the workspace, the browser window is iconified into the task bar and when I switch back to the workspace, I have to go find it and open it again... Very annoying! As a practical example, I was working through a tutorial on the web for a new program I am learning and working the examples in windows alongside the web page with the tutorial in it. Every time I switch away from that workspace and then back to it, the tutorial is gone and I have to get open it in the task bar again.
This lack of saving my workspace context drives me crazy and I'm going to leave my desktop at 10.04 until I find a way go get past this. Anyone have any ideas?
The problem is my preferred way of working. What I do is set up multiple workspaces. I tend to work on 4-5 things at the same time at any given time so I put each of those tasks into a different workspace. Switching between them is easy and works fine on both 10.04 and Unity but I run into a wall when I want to put something like a browser window into a workspace. I can certainly do that but as soon as I leave the workspace, the browser window is iconified into the task bar and when I switch back to the workspace, I have to go find it and open it again... Very annoying! As a practical example, I was working through a tutorial on the web for a new program I am learning and working the examples in windows alongside the web page with the tutorial in it. Every time I switch away from that workspace and then back to it, the tutorial is gone and I have to get open it in the task bar again.
This lack of saving my workspace context drives me crazy and I'm going to leave my desktop at 10.04 until I find a way go get past this. Anyone have any ideas?
Either stay with 10.04 (or 10.10) - you still get updates on other components or move to Zorin OS, Solus OS or Mint 12 using either MATE or Cinnamon.
I'm glad they are making advancements on it. It took me years to go from KDE to gnome 2 for the same reasons. I've given up on the Unix desktop, moved to MAC but Lunix server will always be my solution of choice. Windows 8.. holy crap.
I have no idea why you think that it's a good idea to have to type something to start a program or find a document. I suppose that it's okay if you have a small number of programs installed. I like having the menu to go through as I have so many programs installed I can't remember the names of them all. Every server (domain controllers, vpn, wiki, web, WSUS, Deep Freeze, all have programs installed on my pc and I do not have icons for everyone on the desktop. I'll keep my menu thank you very much. Between Ubuntu Unity & Windows 8, I'm not sure which is worse.
Change for the sake of change, stupid in MHO.....and we see where that got us 4 years ago!
Change for the sake of change, stupid in MHO.....and we see where that got us 4 years ago!
After using Ubuntu for almost 5 years and 98% of my computing done in Ubuntu, I finally gave up and went back to using Win 7. I have several friends who were Ubuntu users and have given up and have gone back to Windows 7. If I could find all the updates to 9.10, I would go back to Ubuntu. For my use, Unity absolutely SUCKS! Let me make the choose at login which format I want, Unity or Gnome 2 and I would go back in a heart beat, since that is not going to happen, I am a former user of Ubuntu.
Zorin OS offers 3 choices of Desktop - Gnome 2, Windows XP or Windows 7. (it is still Linux under the covers for the Windows desktops, it just gives the look and feel of them). BTW, I still run Ubuntu 10.04 on an old Toshiba laptop and Ubuntu 10.10 in an XP directory (WUBI install) on another old laptop (which I take when I travel). I had to replace my desktop and it came with Windows 7 (another piece of crap IMO). I installed VirtualBox and have Mint 12 installed as one VM with a number of different desktops (e.g., MATE, Cinnamon, XFCE, etc.). I also have Zorin and Solus as VMs plus some others, such as Ubuntu 12.04 (could not get any of the 3 preview versions of Windows 8 to install, in spite of sufficient RAM and HD space).
Exactly how long have you really been running ubuntu?
http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/03/gnome-classic-in-ubuntu-12-04-its-like-nothing-ever-changed
You can run Awesome, or anything you want.
http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/03/gnome-classic-in-ubuntu-12-04-its-like-nothing-ever-changed
You can run Awesome, or anything you want.
I do like Unity except for
how it slugs out my machine,
a 2.2G dual core.
I now use Xubuntu, much faster and
ive configured it to look / work much like unity
only without the HUD :^{
I use Synapse for the search stuff, love it :^}
Of course, the awesomeness that is linux is that
we can have multi desktops on one machine.
I can easily switch back to Unity at any time.
how it slugs out my machine,
a 2.2G dual core.
I now use Xubuntu, much faster and
ive configured it to look / work much like unity
only without the HUD :^{
I use Synapse for the search stuff, love it :^}
Of course, the awesomeness that is linux is that
we can have multi desktops on one machine.
I can easily switch back to Unity at any time.
I use terminal a lot for server work and prefer using just a keyboard. I would prefer just turning off the touchpad on my netbook if I can and just type things I need to do. Only problem I see with typing every command is "Crap what's that called again?" or "is it exit or quit in this program?" that's where a menu is helpful.
For those who like an uncluttered desktop or do not know how to organize programs and folders on their desktop, this may be a benefit. Personally, I think creating or copying a shortcut to the desktop may be easier. Click on the icon (or double-click) and the program is executed. One step compared to three going through Dash. I do like the idea of the Launcher, though. Would help to keep an uncluttered desktop. Windows 7 can search for applications, the downside in all this is you have to know the name of the application in order to search for it. 
I left Ubuntu desktop because of Unity. It wouldn't support dual monitors. At all.
but they appear to be attempting to make entry into the tablet market, so I wouldn't count on that changing.
The nature of the underlying video system, X(.org) makes handling more than one monitor a PITA. The hardware, keyboard, mouse and monitor, are technically the X server, the client is the software. Getting two drivers (for separate video outputs) to break down the input they get from the client side and keep it straight (which content goes to which display) on the output side is a daunting task. There's a ton of overhead needed to get it right.
Keep in mind you're only running one instance of X. Windows makes multiple monitors easy because the entire video system is little more than an executable running in the same environment as your windowing system and apps. (gdi.exe) All ends of the operation are using the same, much simpler API.
I'm not sure if the Wayland model will make this easier, I would imagine it's developers have the idea in mind.
Keep in mind you're only running one instance of X. Windows makes multiple monitors easy because the entire video system is little more than an executable running in the same environment as your windowing system and apps. (gdi.exe) All ends of the operation are using the same, much simpler API.
I'm not sure if the Wayland model will make this easier, I would imagine it's developers have the idea in mind.
A good OS lets everybody work the way they want. Unity is one very nice approach but it seems we are now forced to use this 'one' way to do everything.
Now, everything has to start with typing at a prompt. What if I don't have a clue what to type? For example, what if I don't know that I should type "libre" if I want to open the word processor?
The beauty of a gui is that it can help you find your way through complex tasks using what you could call 'fuzzy logic'. For example, if you want to write a letter and on the desktop you see an icon that looks like a dvd and has the name 'music' under it, and then you see an icon that looks like a letter and has 'Word Processor' or anything close to that under it, you will probably think, hmm, I think I'll try the letter icon.
Once the word processor's open, it might be nice to browse through the menus. If you have a specific task in mind, you can usually look through the menus and find what you need. If you're only faced with a blank line and you must type something, it's frustrating if you don't have a clue what to type. If, for example, you're trying to adjust the space between some characters, you might not know what to type. If on the other hand, you look through the 'format' menu and you see 'kern', you might think, hmm I think I'll try that.
Unity's great if and when you want to use it but I don't think an OS should force everyone to go down that path all the time.
Now, everything has to start with typing at a prompt. What if I don't have a clue what to type? For example, what if I don't know that I should type "libre" if I want to open the word processor?
The beauty of a gui is that it can help you find your way through complex tasks using what you could call 'fuzzy logic'. For example, if you want to write a letter and on the desktop you see an icon that looks like a dvd and has the name 'music' under it, and then you see an icon that looks like a letter and has 'Word Processor' or anything close to that under it, you will probably think, hmm, I think I'll try the letter icon.
Once the word processor's open, it might be nice to browse through the menus. If you have a specific task in mind, you can usually look through the menus and find what you need. If you're only faced with a blank line and you must type something, it's frustrating if you don't have a clue what to type. If, for example, you're trying to adjust the space between some characters, you might not know what to type. If on the other hand, you look through the 'format' menu and you see 'kern', you might think, hmm I think I'll try that.
Unity's great if and when you want to use it but I don't think an OS should force everyone to go down that path all the time.
You are correct that more options are better, more likely you'll find the most efficient/enjoyable work flow for you.
But we here are a bit jaded, we know what we're doing and can use experience to fill in any blanks.
The wider debate is what to do in the enterprise or small business, where you don't care about choice. Getting work done is the only task.
That's where an article like this comes in. Jack makes an argument for using unity, and some of us reply with differing opinions. Myself included; I set up KDE for all end users who aren't going to be tinkering with the environment, that "typical end user" most of we here are not.
As for me, I use a number of DEs besides KDE. I love gnome 3, and frequently fire up e17 and even IceWM. Ice is about the only DE that won't get in the way on my old (P-III) laptop I use for some rather lengthy monitoring. (I don't care if it gets stolen : | )
If any user comes to me with knowledge of other DEs, I'll set them up with some alternatives and let them decide which they prefer. Notice that begins with the user, I assume if they've come across knowledge of, say gnome 3, they were looking for it, or at least were enlightened enough to look into when they came across it.
But we here are a bit jaded, we know what we're doing and can use experience to fill in any blanks.
The wider debate is what to do in the enterprise or small business, where you don't care about choice. Getting work done is the only task.
That's where an article like this comes in. Jack makes an argument for using unity, and some of us reply with differing opinions. Myself included; I set up KDE for all end users who aren't going to be tinkering with the environment, that "typical end user" most of we here are not.
As for me, I use a number of DEs besides KDE. I love gnome 3, and frequently fire up e17 and even IceWM. Ice is about the only DE that won't get in the way on my old (P-III) laptop I use for some rather lengthy monitoring. (I don't care if it gets stolen : | )
If any user comes to me with knowledge of other DEs, I'll set them up with some alternatives and let them decide which they prefer. Notice that begins with the user, I assume if they've come across knowledge of, say gnome 3, they were looking for it, or at least were enlightened enough to look into when they came across it.
1) launcher bar = asinine idea
2) menus belong IN app window, nowhere else
3) cannonical f*ked security with their sudo config
4) cannonical f*ked install, automatically adding and mounting partitions it was EXPLICITLY told to leave the f*k alone.
2) menus belong IN app window, nowhere else
3) cannonical f*ked security with their sudo config
4) cannonical f*ked install, automatically adding and mounting partitions it was EXPLICITLY told to leave the f*k alone.
I agree with most, and specifically, Janitorman. The best thing anyone can do with an OS is not change it so much... focus more on application development!
I loathe Unity, Gnome 3 and Metro (W8).
Like some of the people above, I'm still using Ubuntu 10.04 as my Linux OS (I mostly use W7 though).
It appears that OS software creators have given up on fixing user annoyances/issues.
I guess they have run out of ideas.
"What will we do for our next release?"
"I don't know ... how about changing the GUI layout and throwing in some new graphics?"
"Sounds good to me."
Like some of the people above, I'm still using Ubuntu 10.04 as my Linux OS (I mostly use W7 though).
It appears that OS software creators have given up on fixing user annoyances/issues.
I guess they have run out of ideas.
"What will we do for our next release?"
"I don't know ... how about changing the GUI layout and throwing in some new graphics?"
"Sounds good to me."
...since the day after its release, and finally changed for Kubuntu 12.04 in mid-July. About 3 months trying, not just one week. Count me in the non-believers.
None of these new desktops will ever get my vote (except maybe a smartphone). I'll continue to use XFCE or KDE simply because this is the way I've worked since the Xerox Alto days. I work a lot with digital type, graphics, audio, video, word-processing, etc, and have a penchant for customizing my environment so I guess I'll remain a loyal mouse/keyboard user. At the end of the day, it all comes down to individual needs and comfortable inertia.
I have to say, it is in an "interesting" change. I will take some time get used to.
As you commented, all we have to do is test it. No one can say it's good or bad without using it.
I too am a new convert to Ubuntu 12.04 and Unity (lifelong Windows cult member)...but I don't have the HUD behavior you describe for Libre Writer? I have traditional menus and drop downs, ala MS Word. Is HUD a feature you can toggle on/off? Perhaps I chose traditional mode during install or something...?
There is some sort of 'fall back' during install depending on whether or how the video was detected and set up. Something to do with native 3D effects. (which are a waste of resources for most people)
LinuxMint, based on Ubuntu, rejected the Unity desktop and instead adopted/developed Cinnamon... and I'm loving it.
Just 2 questioms. How is it more efficient to
a) have to type footer after going to the hud than to just hit Insert->footer
b) .................... save ............................................................... the save button
a) have to type footer after going to the hud than to just hit Insert->footer
b) .................... save ............................................................... the save button
Ubuntu drops my WiFi connection too readily on my Sony Viao. In frustration, I went to Fedora (now 16) and Gnome 3. Problem solved.
As a touch typist, I don't mind typing into search bars, but my cat likes to use my left arm as a prop when in my lap (most of the time). So I agree with abakaldis.
As a touch typist, I don't mind typing into search bars, but my cat likes to use my left arm as a prop when in my lap (most of the time). So I agree with abakaldis.
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