Discussion on:

Apple iPhone 5 will fend off the pack - but for how long?

"The latest iPhone does include enough innovation to stay ahead of Apples rivals ..."

See? This is where Is stopped reading.

In a phone where there is no NFC, the screen is elongated enough to add another row of icons (yet not respect true HD format, meaning letterboxed apps), the mapping system is faulty and the voice command app lags behind that of the competition, I don't see where this iteration of the iPhone brings any innovation to the table.

In fact, if it wasn't for copying some features of the rivals, there would be no iPhone5 / iOS6. Here's a few:

- Larger screen (despite constant declarations for years that anything larger than 3.5" was pointless)
- Pull down notification bar
- Mapping system (albeit handicapped right now)
- True multitasking

Where exactly is the innovation here?

And before anyone proposes it, litigation is not innovation.

maybe some people think it is when it is spelled "iLitigation"...
just joking folks...no need to ban me to the nether regions of
the interwebs, LOL

Your tunnel vision is evidently missing the millions of Android users who happily send and receive emails from their phones, and who don't have anything like a CISSP. Sad that so many Apple users are needlessly afraid of The Rest of The World.

The general populace - has nothing in common with this panel... and they just bought a record number of these things. Why? Because Apple was the first smart phone they ever bought - and they are use to it, and don't want to learn how to use a new brand of phone. Because Apple has no learning curve, and other phones require you to read the book to get anything to work. Because Apple products plug into an Apple universe that unifies all their home products - laptop/phone/pad/itunes... everything works together. That is more important than some feature only a geek even notices is missing.

Normal people don't want a learning curve. Normal people don't care about the outlining features, just apps. They don't care about developers freedom, just applications which downloaded without infecting their phones. They want ease of use...that is number one, and really the only one that matters to the non-geeks. Grandma can use the phone, it feels friendly -- the other phones are hard to use and scary looking, complecated details, support needed. As long as Apple is simple, easy to use, no learning curve -- every new product works with ease with all the old Apple devices, Apple will stay in the lead. The reason normal people buy the other stuff, is because they can't afford Apple.

Like any other new product segment that has matured a bit there is a significant segment of the 'normal' group that want more having 'outgrown' the safer 'nurseries' that the ecosystems like the iPhone/iOS represents. Those users will probably move on to Windows Phones or Androids or perhaps yet another OS that may come blazing in where there are more opportunities for perceived greater personal freedom of choice.

The proliferation of iOS and Android in my environment of 4,000 employees is about 30% iOS, and it generates 85% of the calls to service desk. The idea that it "just works" is just that -- an idea. I'm not saying its a bad phone, it is quite good, but its not a zero-learning-curve device.

I have both Android and iDevice users. I would say every bit of 85% of the calls we get are for the iDevices. I don't think they are any harder to set up, but I do think most of the iDevice users are less tech savvy, they are also much less patient.

"every new product works with ease with all the old Apple devices"

Let me just plug my shiny new iPhone5 into my music dock.. D'oh! New connector..!

as soon as you spend $30 for this absolutely cool iAdaptor. You will probably need about 10 of them But they are so cool!

You may be right about that and you are proven to be right in the past 5 years. But even Apple has to innovate it's Windows 95 interface. The competition now has either more intuitive (Windows Phone 8) or more interactive (Android) interfaces. This will get noticed. The coming half year and this Christmas will show wether we are at a tipping point.

What will be decisive to move away from iOS? I do not know, maybe youth will look at the iPhone and think its meant for granddaddies or the underwhelming impression the 4S and 5 made compared to the competition like Nokia and Samsung, the upcoming ecosystem with excellent gaming of Windows 8 + XBOX, Apple's mistake with their Maps app?

What is certain, is that Apple needs to start innovating. Something they haven't done for quite a while now. So we can only hope the company can make the switch again or they will soon find themselves in the footsteps of Nokia. Nokia shows it is possible to come back, but it comes at a heafty price.

how about a couple of women on the panel? also, why do you guys always assume that every user has the same needs when you evaluate devices and equipment? that's what it feels like, anyway.

The iPhone 5 is as boring as the 4 and 4s. These reviewers are in denial. Samsung's S3 it so far ahead of the 5 its breath raking.

Apple have barely matched the S3 in a few features. The Apple ecosystem is a prison no freedom to choose there. You are free to use what ever Apple decides you can use.

It is an uncomfortable device to hold and use. It's screen is far too small and all the Apple fan boy/girl mental queuing is simply disturbing.

People don't buy iPhones because of the apps or because of the new features or whatever. People buy iPhones because society says they are "cool". Apple has been selling "cool" for years and they have a whole army of lemmings who will buy anything that comes out of Cupertino - because it is "cool". If you are looking for a smart phone because you want the features and functions that a smart phone can bring, then the new iPhone 5 is behind the curve. There is no NFC, no SD Card support and they have managed to be part of a group pushing the Micro USB connector as the standard mobile device connector, yet still created a new proprietary connector for the iPhone 5 that means that their whole "ecosystem" of stuff built around their original propriety connecter now requires that you spend $30 on an adapter - that only partially works!!
The lemmings of the consumer world will line up in droves to jump off the cliff at Apple stores around the world. That is what they do. Everyone says that Android is "scary and hard to use". Really?? It is a screen, with icons - the same concept as the iPhone. You push the icon to launch the app. How hard is that?

There is nothing new with the iPhone 5 in comparison to some other smartphones. Take the Samsung Galaxy S3 for example, its out for several month and is overall better then iPhone 5, as already mentioned. The headline therefore is false as the iPhone 5 was already autdated at release with nothing really new to fend off the competition.

Apple has lost his edge, the magic is gone. Its just a product upgrade within the Apple line of iPhone, nothing more, nothing less.

The iphone 5 appears to be a disappointment to many. A slightly bigger screen, and a different connector so all the current accessories don't fit. (More adapters)
IOS6 seems to have removed functionality compared to the earlier.
Die hard apple fans wil rave about how it better, but in reality those looking for a decent replacement phone have better options with others if up to date technology and future proof is what you want.
Apple seem to be losing their "wow" factor. Too interested in litigation rather than innovation.

The innovations are not enough to make me jump up in joy and run to my service provider to upgrade. Besides with the huge profits Apple makes on these devices they should have included at least one free adapter with every new phone. I am unwilling to dish out $30.00 for an adapter. I consider myself lucky that I only bought one accessory item for my iPhone a second synch cable. Since they are so profit hungry when my current contract expires I am switching to an Android or possible Windows 8 phone. I never did care for iTunes any how. I am also tired of Apple preventing me from installing certain software without jail breaking the device.

iPhone 5 is closer to the Android and not backwards.
All those 'new' features already exist on Android ( LTE, larger screen, HD form factor, super cameras, faster processors), so there's nothing new , is just getting closer to the market or trying to push a bit more. Anyway, in the innovation curve, it is hard to be climbing all the time. So do not expect to see any super duper mobile feature soon.

Speaking for the average consumer, which I believe is a large part of the iPhone market, we do not buy the iPhone because it's a better phone. We buy this little magical device for one primary reason: Apple has convinced us that it IS magical. We buy it, over and over, because, at one time, it truly was revolutionary. We are sold on the brand. We trust that Apple will hold true to the perception that they will continue building cool devices. The aesthetics are fantastic--it feels right, in your hand. The hardware (aesthetics)--all by itself, continues to help to sell the brand and keep the momentum going. Of course, I initially was interested in the earlier iPhone iterations because of the browsing capabilities as well. The functionality is still VERY useful and holds its own, within reasonable limits, against any of the current phone tech out there. That said, go to ANY Apple store in the mall. You will almost certainly find a crowded standing-room only store full of eager consumers playing with the latest iPads and ? How many of those eager consumers are thinking, "Hmmmmm....I really want to see how the latest A6 processor performs?" Could they really fill a store to capacity, consistently, with spec sheets? I strongly feel like they simply want to hold the latest of the cool devices in their hand and play with it a little (sorry, i know this is subjective, but it's what I see). Even business users, managers, etc., switching from BB to iPhone for their business phones. How many of these business users would COMFORTABLY switch to some obscure phone, simply because it was a better phone, especially when they have a choice? They switch to iPhone because of the perception of it's wide acceptance AND because it's widely considered to be cool. Their family, friends and coworkers have iPhones and they hear the hype. If they can send and receive email and browse with an iPhone, they are, by and large, going to switch.

Apple is in the business of making cool devices--for decades. For my cell phone, I want a cool device! and I want it to perform. Apple has accomplished this. I know, Samsung's phone is better in some respects. Do I feel like Samsung is going to devote all of it's time to making my next upgrade cooler than the last? No. That's why I'm buying the iPhone. Plain and simple. Now, for my computer, I want a kick-butt gaming system. I don't need something cool there, because nobody that I interact with on the internet is going to see my computer. They will be more impressed with my FPS. So, I don't buy Apple there.

To fully illustrate my point. I would totally pay, IN ADVANCE, for my next iPhone upgrade.....WITHOUT EVEN SEEING the phone. I'm already sold. And, I'm sure that I'm not alone, by a long shot. How many folks would buy the next Android device without seeing it's specs first?

Call me stupid. Call me a slave to marketing. And, is it really only marketing when I enjoy the device that I receive? Is it so wrong to trust a company when they've performed so well for so long, in an area of interest to me? Is it so foolish to invest in a phone, whose maker I trust to give me what I want, both now and in the future? How many of us continue to purchase BMWs over and over again for the same reason? The performance, the pride of ownership, the wide acceptance? Are their better cars out there? Of course.

Please don't rip me a new one. I'm just a lowly, slightly techie, consumer giving some non-techie subjective insight, from the perspective of a certain type of consumer. I know there are other considerations. I am, by no means, an Apple fanatic. I simply trust them to make my phone--now, and in the near future. And, if, due to some unforeseen event, I feel screwed in this relationship, I will move on, and probably only then, buy the phone with the best specs, but I will still miss what I had before, because there was only, ever, one iPhone.

"That said, go to ANY Apple store in the mall. You will almost certainly find a crowded standing-room only store full of eager consumers playing with the latest iPads and ? How many of those eager consumers are thinking, "Hmmmmm....I really want to see how the latest A6 processor performs?" Could they really fill a store to capacity, consistently, with spec sheets? I strongly feel like they simply want to hold the latest of the cool devices in their hand and play with it a little (sorry, i know this is subjective, but it's what I see)."

I'm not sure if everyone in there is actually a customer looking to purchase. I for one go in just to see what is new but have never bought anything since I already have everything at the moment that meets my computing needs and budget. I have noted also that there are always a nice group of consumers that are simply playing games and killing time. I would figure optimistically on a normal day about half of the people there are even seriously thinking of a purchase. I'm sure it helps to have the appearance of a busy store. Convenience stores do something very similar when they allow customers to stand and read the magazines. That's the reason those stacks are located at the window doncha know.

I agree that many of those people will only "Play" with the devices and not actually purchase. However the point is that they are filling up stores to capacity with folks interested in the devices, to whatever end. I can't imagine that same scenario, at least not consistently, from release to release, for other brands.

No we will not call you stupid as that is rude and we need to improve the discourse not debase it.

It is a shocking admission that Apple has managed to so completely subsume you into its marketing machine that you actually believe you are better off and cool. How can you be cool when so many consumers have the same cool item. I always thought to be cool you needed to be different, to stand out from the crowd.

The original iPhone was simply a design success. It was crap as a phone but it looked and felt great. The 4 & 5 series iPhone are unpleasant to hold and use and lack features for the prices they demand.

I wasn't saying that I am cooler with an iPhone. I am saying that the iPhone is cooler. I went to an AT&T store and saw/held a Samsung Galaxy S III. While it was lightweight, thin, and had a nice size screen, I found the home screen too busy in the display model setup (I'm sure this can be changed--but, it affected my first impression). And, the phone did not feel solid. I personally prefer the iPhone's ergonomics (iPhone 5). I'm sorry, but in my opinion, the aesthetics are simply superior. The beveled edges, the smokey differing hues of blacks, the architectural design. Honestly, the Samsung looked like a thinner/larger version of the iPhone 3, and I'm over that design.

Anyways, I believe I said the PHONE was cool--NOT that it made me look cool or be cool.

iPhones are not expensive at all, with the upgrade price, which most people are purchasing them at. Same or similar price to the Samsung, if I recall correctly.

Again, am I REALLY such a slave to Apple's marketing, when their strongest marketing is the product itself?

If you are 'have to have' the latest iDevice, you are a slave to their marketing.

I have had both an iPhone and an iPad. They were both 'OK', but I found them FAR to restrictive. I like the freedom to build things my way. I don't want to be locked into iTunes or the Apple App Store.

I will take my rooted Samsung Galaxy Infuse (currently running Jelly Bean) over ANY iDevice any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

If you like living in a walled garden Apple products are fairly decent devices. Not withstanding the current issues with maps, no youtube...

Some of us prefer to see what is outside that walled garden. Yeah it might be a little shocking at first, but it is far more satisfying, at least to me, to be able to set up my own garden, and modify at will. I would not prefer to be in the same Walled Garden with millions of others, but that is just me.

I don't work like everybody else. I want my device customized to what I need not set up as Apple thinks best.

I have said it a million times there are certain people (and I work with all types) that will always like Apple. Some people prefer Ice Cream or Jelly Beans. It is neither right or wrong, but you should at least admit where you stand and how you came to stand there.

I totally get your point about customizability. I, frankly, do not have the time to do that for my phone. And, I don't think that a majority of cell phone users do that, even most Android phone owners. I find the apps in the app store adequate for the most part. If anything, I would create my own app if necessary. With 600,000 apps available, that's hardly a small garden, regardless of the perceived wall.

I also think that I covered the reasons for choosing iPhone. Why is it so inconceivable that someone would prefer an arguably more stylish phone that has more than adequate features? Apple marketing? What marketing? I haven't seen a single iPhone advertisement, aside from their annual release video. I liked the first iPhone because it was an offshoot of their innovative mp3 player (the round dial was innovative for it's time). And, because it had a superior browser to anything that I was aware of at the time. All of the following upgraded iPhone models were great too. I'm sorry, I see every single phone with a touchscreen and finger-gestures as copy-cats of the iPhone--sans iPhone style.

I know where I stand. I like the iPhone. I trust Apple's next iPhone will be just as nice with slightly upgraded specs and hardware. Sure, other manufacturers will continually try to stay slightly ahead of the curve, but they don't get the style aspect in their phone designs. Apple's first iPhone was absolutely revolutionary and innovative. It was so far ahead of the curve at the time, that I was completely sold. Heck, I waited for years to be able to do reasonable web browsing, such as checking my bank account, on my phone. iPhone was the first phone to offer that in manner that worked well. So, AGAIN, why is that so bad that millions of people are loyal to them and trust them for that? They have not let us down so far.

I liked the comedic nuance of your post .Wizard 57m
I will not demand banishment to the nether regions this time

I do agree that Apple will continually sell even beyond this release. I know a lot of people who got the 4S who want the iPhone 5, but their contracts aren't in the eligible cycle. I skipped every other iPhone, since I started with the original, then went to the 3GS and went to the 4S. But I don't really want the bigger size in a phone, so I am not really interested in the iPhone 5. For larger, I prefer tablets (I got the Nexus 7, Asus Transformer Pad Infinity and I have the new iPad).

I don't really get the "cool" factor, because a lot of the time that I am not at home, the tablets stay in my bag, and the iPhone is in my pocket. Sometimes I have to wait in line, and I get out my iPhone, but everyone else in line is on either an Android phone or the iPhone. I never got he iPhone because I thought it made me look cool. I have a couple of old iPods, and thought that the iPhone was the perfect combination of iPod, phone and browser in one device. Now the clear situation is that the iPod came out a long time ago. I ripped my music collection into iTunes with and spent a lot of time doing that, way before the iPhone came out. I also have a lot of TV programs and movies that I converted years ago, primarily for my Sony PSP. Then when iTunes carried TV shows, I buy some of those. I am too lazy go through that again for something like Amazon Cloud.

So for me relevance in terms of iTunes, not necessarily the device. But I do get the other side. We used BlackBerrys before, but when the iPhone 4S came out, we started taking the BlackBerrys away and gave the users a choice of either the iPhone 4S or the Samsung Galaxy S II (the S III was not out yet). Every single one of those users chose the iPhone 4S. Not even 1 chose the S II. Of the staff that did not have company phones, we have a better mixture, but the iPhone is still by far the most popular phone. Since most of our employees are Asian (i.e. not born in America) the iPhone could easily change into the language of their choice.

"Since most of our employees are Asian (i.e. not born in America) the iPhone could easily change into the language of their choice."

Given the other choice was the S II (which I actually own) I would say the iPhone would be a better choice for changing the environment language. As far as I can see by default the S II only comes with English or Spanish as choices. Maybe there are language packs that you can install but out of the box the iPhone will have it already.

http://blog.clove.co.uk/2011/05/04/samsung-galaxy-s-ii-gt-i9000-pre-installed-languages/

I counted 41 language options for the SII, and this was on Android 2.3. If you updated to Android 4, there will be even more.

It will fend it off until, oh wait there are already better smartphones out. It will be cool until the Apple faithful get over the first round probably a couple of week. Then Windows phone 8 and Windows 8 will hit, and all the new Android deals and phone coming before Christmas will come out to and the Apple Faithful will have 10 months to wait. Meanwhile as soon as CES hit in January until forever there wil be new Android stuff dropping bi-monthly and Windows phones will as well more sporadically. I imagine by next year at this time there will be Android and Windows phones more powerful than an Apple desktop with better graphics and the new wireless spectrum as well.! Just Sayin'

The iPhone has NEVER been about "innovation", instead it's more about "fashion" - an iPhone 5 is designed to be a fashion device, and NOT an actual piece of technology

The proof of this is in how Apple hold back functionality that other phones (Android & Windows Phone) are happily pushing forwards

A LOT of users will happily accept it's limitations, or difficulties, and still claim that it "just works" and Apple design things to be "better"

As long as you accept it's functional limitations, and want to "look cool", especially if you're a hipster, then it's the best phone on the market - until the screen shatters because they're allergic to Gorilla Glass :-P

in the second largest city in Georgia, there are 25 people waiting at the Apple store. I'd say the magic is already failing. I have an iPad and had a 3G, but realized that Apple fell behind around the 3GS and hasn't caught up since. I mean really, have you ever had a phone that was "magical"? Yeah, me neither.

Now that the hypemaster Jobs is gone, I expect Apple to slowly decline over the next 5-10 years.

Hello. My name is the Reverend Tim Cook. I am a disciple of the late Rev Steve Jobs. Our sole purpose in life is to take away as much money as possible from the simpletons of this world in such a way that you actually look forward to being skinned without the slightest inkling of just how gormless you really are. Now please be quiet, pay up or you'll have to drink all your iKool-Aid!!

Was Jobs full of hype or did he have the midas touch of judging what people liked & needed?

Mr Cook has a tough act to follow, and Wall street is watching his every move.
Their main worries are with Apple maintaining improving their margins. They identify risk from Android growing, achieving, benefiting from & eating away the networking effect that Apple has enjoyed so far alone with the help of its walled garden enhancing utility.

Is this why they are litigating so hard against Android through Samsung?
Quicker to do for them than innovating?

If this happens, then will the network providers reduce the subsidy on iPhones forced on them by Apple (little to zero on Android), and with it goes that handsome margin.

Innovation has also improved their margins by, Apple investing, building factories to manufacture the new component designs. The companies/countries benefiting, obviously give them the lower unit costs now & for future contracts. Is a new connector & bigger screen enough to do this? If your not going forwards in business, your loosing.

My feeling is that Apple looks impressive, but its stock valuation is like a bubble despite its mega bucks reserves.

If it is such a vigorous innovative company why such a low stock price/ earnings ratio, why are they just sitting on their reserves in low tax havens, buying back stock, suing competitors, instead of investing in R&D, revolutionary new production lines & factories? Looks awfully defensive, like the conservative iPhone 5 iteration, or is this just Tim, under the spotlight, carefully finding the direction that will suit Apple at the start of its middle age and his own style of management?

Maybe they have lost their touch, just like Nokia, Motorola & all the others that were at the top of the heap!

Well thats the way the Cook'ie crumbles, and with it the Dow Jones as Apple is such a large part of it!

Can Apple innovate? Of course they can. Will they, every again? Not on the iPhone, in any significant way.

Simple put, innovation implies a risk, a gamble. You did something crazy, and it caught on... innovation is really just that, a judgement call. If it's not subject to failure, that's a pretty good indication you're just extending what already works. That's all over the iPhone 5, as it should be. And of course, if your risk is not well received, you may lose customers.

Apple doesn't have much to worry about, as long as they keep the iPhone relevant. There are many iPhone users who are simply not going to look anywhere else for a smartphone upgrade. The iPhone 5 is less about luring in potential Samsung SIII buyers than it is luring in current iPhone 3GS or iPhone 4 buyers. Or 4S... Apple gets more people breaking their contracts to get the latest thing than any other smartphone company.

Apple also delivers just one iPhone per year. They absolutely have to get that right. They're on top, and it's much easier to imagine falling than to imagine claiming more phone market share. All of this means that it's in Apple's best interest to keep doing what they did last year, only in a 2012 footprint. Which is exactly what the iPhone 5 does. That's incremental change, though, no revolutions, thus, no potential to be judged as innovative.

In fact, the one big hardware change is the docking connector, and that's also the one big controversy. That's fairly low risk... it may have a few buyers waiting to upgrade, but it's not as if every iPhone user has a stockpile of expensive add-ons. They've managed to keep annoying the Europeans by not going to microUSB, but no more so than with the previous models. Some of this is just keeping up with the Joneses (and in particular, Samsung Jones and Motorola Jones) -- the old dock connector was looking pretty thick, and didn't make it easy to put the headphone jack on the same edge.

Shaun Beighle, CIO at the International Republican Institute, said in the consumer market the iPhone will continue to reign supreme, simply because the average user doesnt want to deal with learning a new operating platform.

I might be looking at this incorrectly, but isn't android the OS on the most phones world wide? If that's right then the average user not wanting to deal with learning a new operating platform would mean that they would stick with Android. That would not lead to Apple reigning supreme but to Android reigning supreme.

Full disclosure I don't own a iPhone but friends and family do. I have been a Android user since Palm went out of business. I bought my Motorola Photon a couple years ago and haven't received one significant OS update since; this is important to me since I cannot define a proxy on Gingerbread without rooting my phone. My son is enjoying the immediate benefit of IOS 6 on this 4th Generation IPhone that day it went live.

When looking for a new phone am I going to by another Android that is immediately out of date? Hell no. Technology improves quickly and Apple keeps all their customers on the cusp; period.

Don't rely in Apple Maps or whatever they call it to find your way anywhere. Apparently there is no function to get directions when you walk.

Yep I know Apple admits that they have Issues with their App and expect most of their customers to Grab the Google option which Apple used to use till Google became too much of a competitor.

Seems that not all change is for the better though at least this time you don't have to hold the handset in a certain way so that it sort of works.

Col

It really is true that Samsung seems to be catching up to iPhones... however one of the big differences is that the features in the iPhone are not just displayed there, they actually work. With Samsung and other Android systems they are unreliably functioning like as if you have to keep shaking the device to get them to work. Like the stupid battery fully charged notification in the Samsung Epic - there is no way to turn it off so in the middle of the night it starts beeping every few minutes to tell you the battery is full.

Contrary to Dave the IT Guy's assertion, some people buy iPhones because of their functionality. I'm trashing my BlackBerry because the iPhone offers a touch screen, better mapping, and several favourite apps (Evernote, a wine cellar database, QuickOffice, TripCase, HanDBase...). Worse email client, though, and missing conditional call forwarding, but I can find work-arounds for those. But I'm staying away until the fever dies down a little.

1. Extend the scope & length of your warranty (you can afford it & it won't cost you much as your equipment is of superior reliability!)
2. Improve its ruggedness, survive a reasonable drop without cracking ect.
3. Cream the opposition, make it water proof!

....that Apple can't buy, litigate, or wish back into existence in Cupertino: Steve Jobs.

Apple is a Fashion statement for the technologically-challenged; denial works until it doesn't and it's seen that the Emperor has Old clothes.