Discussion on:

Poll revisited: What percentage of your enterprise is running Windows XP?

What is going out there - is your organization rolling out Windows 7 more now? Is Windows XP slowly but surely losing its hold?

Only because they got new computers just before we made the switch to Windows 7, so those people will have to wait until the next hardware or software refresh.

No W2K, no Vista, no W8. No Apple, no Linux. We're rolling out W7 on new or reassigned machines, but there's no push or reason to re-image functioning XP systems. The W7 systems also have Office 2010; the XPs are still on 2007.

That's this location only. I have no numbers for the 3200 or so systems across the company.

NO Win XP option. We can't even re-use out existing XP licences, legal to do here, because the needed hardware drivers are not available in XP. many areas are starting to migrate over to Linux instead just so they can have a long term stability in how the systems look and work.

Edit to add - all systems have Libre Office as MS Office 2007 and 2010 is just too much of a learning curve for too many people. We also have all systems set up with Fire Fox plus add-ons like AdBlock Plus, Better Privacy, and No Script for uniform browsing and security.

We don't replace all that many systems each year as we have no BIG regular roll out, just replace as needed.

DO you deploy your Linux? if so how do you do it?

If you want you can find me on spiceworks (snyper82) to discuss.

off the Internet and burn to DVD. To install I put the disc in, check the system is set to boot from CD/DVD, reboot, and then follow the install instructions - I do the basic install and then use the Software Centre to add any extras I want. Once built I usually make and image and use that if I ever need to rebuild the system - done that for a few where the hard drives went belly up.

If not installing I do the same but choose Live Disc and not Install when the system boots from the CD/DVD.

Due to the diversity of the systems I usually have to maintain it's not possible to create an image and copy that to other systems, so I often use a couple of disc and do a couple of machines at a time - usually all done within an hour. The few times I've been rolling out multiples of the same hardware I built on and them imaged that across to the hard drives of the others.

In short, it's much the same as loading your own Windows, just a damn sight quicker and easier.

You can email my via the Peer Mail or from my email on my web site at www.bywater.net.au

edit to add - I currently use and recommend Zorin OS Linux from

zorin-os.com

note no www in it - check their website out

I don't see any option in the poll for choosing 'not using Windows at all' - which very convenient transfers all Linux users to be interpreted as already using a newer version of Windows. Very smart !!

Last year I purchased a new laptop and it came installed with Windows 7 starter and with MS Office 2010 preloaded. Seriously disappointed as I would have to purchase the garbage to activate it. I deleted MS Office 2010 and loaded Open Office 3.3. for FREE. For all the work I do on Word processors, spreadsheets, presentations, databases, Open Office is adequate and in many ways better than MS office. One doesn't have to relearn the system when there are improvements made. As soon as the warranty expires I will be reformatting the hard drive to Linux and if I need to use a dedicated MS package I can always load WINE. My opinion of MS windows 7 - not impressed and decided not to "upgrade." But then I wasn't impressed with windows to start with twenty + years ago.

Every supermarket self checkout machine in most of the state and bordering states here are still using Windows 2000. All new installs are still being setup with the same.

So that naturally slows down the process of rolling people over to Windows 7 because due to cost, we cannot change EVERYBODY's computer over to a new system at once!

In IT, some people get to be in the forefront and some people have to lag behind with the "lowest common denominator" which is the Windows XP people. Unfortunately ,that's me!

hardware is the very latest or several years old, it can be installed on them all and set up to work and look the same for all the systems. They also have GUIs that look like Win 2000, Win XP, and Win 7 if you want to make them familiar looking to your users.

Edit to add - because you can have ALL the machines looking the same it won't be obvious which system is a recent replacement and which isn't. Nor will you have a learning curve for them to use the new OS as it's the same as the old OS, just newer hardware.

Just using KDE I find so many similarities with Windows Vista/7. While I don't know who exactly came out first, I find the similarity comforting and disconcerting.

On the one hand, it is a familiar, good looking interface.

On the other hand, if I am going from a Windows machine to my Linux one I want to subconsciously be able to tell what I am working on so I don't try to do something that works in Windows on Linux and get confused why it isn't working!

will get some people to try it. KDE has been around for a lot longer than Vista or Win 7

Create one that with text saying 'Linux' and one that says 'Windows'. I do something similar to differentiate between which servers I'm remoted into.

of a burning building and people running around in panic, that'll do it. But yeah, just set the baseline background that comes with each one that includes the logo.

Have 12 machines that I use for work. Some are tripple booted, some double some dedicated. Windows is a suckers choice. Why even bother with a system that immeadiately requires the excessive over head and maintenance of anti virus and what? You know even if you do everything right, it is still going to fail. Windows is for lemmings.

Of course sometimes because of customer data transfer you need to be compatiable. Some web apps won't work from some government and other institutions on a non windows machine/Internet Explorer, so you have to use windows to do that. If you see .asp on the URL, you could be introuble. Maybe someday Micorslop's web technology will be standards compliant, Nah, just kidding! Not in the near to medium term anyway. Wine can be problematic so you have to have a test machine before you try to load any new software. I use XP and Win7 when that happens. I'm not a fan of V machines.

Have win 8 installed. One click and you can turn it into win 7 with a learning curve. Most of my customers still use win XP and or win 7. Smart money says that the more cloud becomes main stream, none of the existing OSes are going to matter.

I think you are kidding yourself if you think linux is invulnerable to any kind of attack.

Linux has its place, but i think a true IT professional would understand that technology is about meeting the requirements of the user.
In fact you kind of contradict yourself in that you say you need it.

Of course it might be easier to just go along the lines of apple (sorry you cant do that because i say you cant) or denial (nope cant be done, or "you must be doing it wrong").

I find it funny sometimes that a poll specifically about which version of windows you use spirals very quickly into a linux fan-boy rant about how bad Microsoft/Windows is. None of you can possibly work in an enterprise environment. We are currently working on a global project to update from XP to Windows 7 in about 40 countries. We are about 65% done on a pool of about 15,000 PC's currently in scope.
Show me an organization running 15,000 linux desktops and I will show you a needle in a haystack. Linux is fine for small deployments and works well as a server environment, but it still has a long way to go to make any kind of dent in the enterprise level desktop space.

I am constantly having the "Linux is more stable, Windows is buggy and crashes" argument thrown at me but, I have news for the Linux fanboys out there. While yes, Linux is stable, you still have no clue what you're talking about. I support Windows machines that are on damn near 24/7 and have been for years without so much as a hiccup. They're all just tools people. Each is good for what it was made for but the drooling fanboy attitude of 'Linux is better than Windows, Mac, etc, or the opposite" is like saying a screwdriver is better than a hammer.

Much more like SnapOn vs Craftsman vs Bargain Bin.

After all all workstations are like screwdrivers and servers like hammers. ;^)

Seriously, just use what works. We still run Novell servers at one shop. Another has gone all XenApp (for stuff that isn't web based) so who cares what the desktop is. A locked down linux box is cheaper and easier to maintain than a Windows 7 box (or even XP), especially if you are just going to XenApp or XenDesktop anyway.

The point I am making is there is not a one size fits all answer. There are linux fan boys to be sure. There are also more than a few Microsoft Fan Boys, that will slam anything not Microsoft. I hear it all the time.

No real business could run without Exchange / Outlook. (Funny I know (and manage) several that do, and quite well.)

MSSQL is the only real database. (For some MSSQL is the obvious choice. For others MYSQL or PostGre is fine.)

Office is the only viable Word Processor (though WordPerfect and Libre Office are truly viable alternatives for about 85%).

There are plenty of fan boys to go around and many of them go rabid at the drop of a punctuation mark.

Managing a total of 500+ machines of all flavors I would have to say that the stability of a system is largely dependent on its configuration, hardware, software... I have seen some stable Windows machines, I have seen some that will BlueScreen at least several times a week. The biggest difference is Linux will rarely actually panic (the equivalent of a Windows BSOD). The reason for this difference is quite simple really. Linux software typically doesn't have access to hardware the way windows software does. So Windows systems more frequently fall victim to the software that is running on them. That seems to be much less of a problem with Linux or Apple.

My job is to provide a stable system for the business to thrive at the lowest possible cost. Sometimes the solutions include Microsoft, sometimes not. I am not a fan boy to Microsoft, Apple or Linux. But just like a Master Craftsman, I have to be able to use all the tools if I plan on building anything that truly fits my clients needs. Imagine the Carpenter who only used a nail gun, or only used a hammer, or only used screws. They are all fasteners, and each have their place in a project. I would not want a house built with only one (screws, hand nailing, power nailing), but so many in IT will do just that. "Well if it is not Microsoft (Screws) it is not worth using in business" or "Well Apple is the ONLY way to do image manipulation"...

So you have turned off automatic updates and have never updated the system since it was installed! Patch Tuesdays are unknown in your shop?

Not putting down MS, even Linux has occasional updates that require a reboot. Its just that MS seems to have more updates that require rebooting to take effect.

"The obligatory Linux / Open Office trolls". They bring nothing to the subject under conversation. However, we have a history here of not requiring posts to stay 'on topic'. Often it leads to interesting side conversations, but it also requires tolerating those who would inject comments about the virtues of green tea into a discussion on making coffee.

I am the Network Administrator for a contract circuit board manufacturer and unfortunately, due to the niche' nature of the industry, I even still have a couple Win2K and older (NT/98) machines that I have to support. I even have to remove Win7 from new PCs on occasion to install XP due to various, highly expensive to upgrade, Enterprise software suites we use that require XP. We run manufacturing lines that have $250K pieces of equipment on them that we have had for years but that still work perfectly but they run off software that was made for much older OS versions. Difficult to justify a $250K expense to the big wigs because "it's old".

he has a huge swag of computer controlled manufacturing equipment that were state of the art when they came out with DOS and is constantly buying new copies of DOS every time he has to make major changes to their controllers as that's the only OS the gear will run and they still have about 50 years design life on them to go.

I also have a few people still running Win 98SE on their old 486s and Pentiums - they still work and do what they want, so I keep them going for them , but they're home systems.

What's weird is when you run a Windows shop [on the diagnostic side], but nothing in the factory actually runs on Windows, or Linux either(G code). That was changing before I left, I will admit - some machines actually had a "desktop" on them!!! ROTFLOL!!

We had some Cincinnati Milacron machines that had Apple chips in them with totally separate code - good thing I was using Macs when I took Production Control Tech in college! Those were a trip to diagnose, but they had an embedded diagnostic tool - fortunately.

In the past, I've had some success running legacy dos applications in freedos.

Brought back memories. We had a few machines that were running Warp! (os/2). I remember cutting my teeth on that machine lol. Otherwise this shop had very similar lineup of systems. NT4 workstations were big. I did love setting up and configuring Win2k machines with active directory. The good ol days.

Isn't this the perfect use of Virtualization? The ability to take newer and more powerful hardware and run older OS (or OSs) for required software?

Combined with energy efficient systems and the snapshot capabilities it enables the old OS & software to be backed up and moved to another machine quickly for added insurance.

Some older systems require proprietary cards in the computer to connect to the device. The first problem is that these cards may not exist in a form that's compatible with modern buses. The second is that they may not have drivers for the host OS. The third is that they may be not compatible with virtualization.

We're in the same boat Mike is, even down to the same industry. We've been able to virtualize some things, but on others it just isn't an option (yet).

Machines like old Heller ovens with software and internal heat sensors all designed in the Win98 era. Too much hardware level communication for current virtualization to work with such old systems but it's just an expensive oven. "Hey, CEO. We need a new $120K 'thing that just gets really hot' because this 'thing that gets really hot' is outdated." I'm more a TechPaleontologist than Network Administrator at times. Indiana Jones and the Pentium II of Doom. hah

that were written to leverage properties of Pentium II processors. Try virtualizing those!

I went for our desktops that connect to the Active Directory only, I discounted the computers attached to our lab instruments - which include Windows 3.1, Win 95 and Win98SE. - as being unrepresentative .

You guys are the ones bringing it up. btw there are some large installed bases of Linux out there like 10,000 plus desktops in the City of Munich.

MS fanboys are concerned.

People frequently post about large organizations that have switched to Linux desktops. The examples cited are nearly always governments, the rare university, or other non-profit organizations. I've heard of only one business that has made the switch. It was a US-based guitar company with less than 100 employees, and over five years ago. I'd love to see any information about mid- or large-sized businesses (especially manufacturers) who have taken the leap, even if only unsuccessfully.

the point I was making is that in most cases the people who put together the 'who uses what OS' stats don't even give a passing look to the rest of the world.

About 20% of our computers are still XP and will be until the hardware is replaced. There is just no reason to buy Windows 7 for those computers. We did upgrade all but a couple of Vista computers to Windows 7.

Windows 7 64-bit is our preferred install with no plans to do Windows 8 at all.

I am an I.T specialist in one of Africa's sub-Sahara's zones. The thing is that people down here except the geeky ones kind of love Win Xp and will be missing them....you can't have everything forever right? Even though I have long ago embraced win7 and recently Win 8, I guess Xp is not likely to be easily forgotten by us here as it inherited the ruggedness that was seen in windows 98 and the likes...one hopes that the same ruggedness will be transferred to the upcoming win 8.

Only machines with Win7 are new ones. Not planning to replace OS in old ones; still works thought it's becoming slower and slower with every update of OS, antivirus and applications. Browsers are killing us but it's mostly a lack of RAM problem. The older machines are too small to run Win7 anyway.

Mike: Yes, but I don't throw my hammer out when Stanley needs a dividend and issues a blue handled one.

1. Windows 7 / Vista / XP aren't the only operating systems out there. Perhaps you should change the poll question to ask about the percentage of your Windows computers running the following operating systems?
2. We're focused on getting all of our networked systems upgraded by the April 2014 deadline. Once Microsoft stops making security patches for new ways hackers find to get in, you're vulnerable. The alternative is to expect more of your firewall, virus protection software, and staff than is reasonable to expect.
3. We have a few non-networked PCs that do specific tasks that I'm not worried about. For example, one drives our electronic sign and another is used to make media labels. These non-networked dedicated use PCs represent no vulnerability to our campus and the applications they run don't require an upgrade. So 100% conversion isn't necessarily the right goal.

to the internet - but do have internal networks. Sales is the exception of course.

I agree that some systems in a production environment do not have internet access, but if they have network access in the building then they are vulnerable to threats that come from inside the LAN. Someone brings an infected laptop in from home and that virus goes looking for victims on any network - internal or external. The bigger issue is that MS is eventually going to completely stop supporting/patching XP. Do you really want your business running on unsupported software? Stand-alone, non-networked systems are the only possible exception. No connection means no change and no chance of threat. But you still will eventually be running on unsupported software. Then when you have a problem and need support you have to pay big $$$.

has had Win 98SE sunning on ten systems since it first came out. Over the years they did update to Pentium II PCs but still ran Win 98 as one of their core programs was designed for Win 98 and hasn't been updated since. There is a replacement program that costs twenty time as much and it's worth more then the business is worth to replace all the copies.

As you know Win 98SE hasn't been supported by MS for ages. The last attack on their system was about 8 months after support for Win 98SE stopped. It seems all the guys sending out malware just stopped using the old virus and trojan attacks as they didn't work on the newer MS systems. If that happens with XP too, then it could be a good idea to keep it.

They use proprietary serial networks that are old and slow, but still reliable. They are connected only to each other, completely isolated from the business network. Those that require regular data interchange may be connected to the administrative network through an interface that transforms 10/100 ethernet to 9600 7E1 None.

I support two such networks in many of my grocery stores. Although the older equipment is being replaced by newer equipment that communicates over Ethernet, it's a slow process. It's $4000 to replace the unit, and even an upgrade to wired ethernet requires a $350 investment, independent of the infrastructure costs. With a minimum of seven units per store, a 1000-store grocery chain is looking at a substantial investment. I expect to still be supporting these serial networks for the foreseeable future.

nt

...and that is why I made the point I did. Almost all XP Windows updates are security patches now-a-days. Add up the number that have been rolled out in the last 12 months and you begin to realize how vulnerable you are once Microsoft stops supporting XP. This is a significant piece of information for those advocating "Hey if it's been working, why do anything?"

True, but firewalls have never been 100% solutions and as Dave pointed out there are plenty of other ways to get viruses on your internal network. Laptop? Hey, all it takes is someone with a memory stick.

Most of these older systems were designed before the advent of USB.

Obviously no one seems interested in Vista (a good thing). And Win 8 doesn't seem to have much of a chance in most businesses except for users who are truly computer illiterate and can only function with touch screens (think cash registers at McD's). XP still works pretty well, especially on old computers, and lots of people are afraid of upgrading and its expense and training issues.

An area where this SHOULD change; Electronic Health Records. There is a huge Federal push for doctors and hospitals and the like to migrate from paper records to electronic. And privacy laws (HIPAA) mandate very tight security, and XP really isn't all that strong security wise. Also, the older PC's in many medical offices are not robust enough to move from handling bills and appointments to full blown medical record systems. So such offices will tend to need new PCs which brings the chance to more easily migrate to Win 7 while also upgrading networks and firewalls.

I maintain 6x Win server - 45x WIn XP Pro -5x Win 7 Pro - 4x Linux machines. I can spend more time updateing and trying to load software on the Linux machine than it take to maintain half of our Windows machine. Yes Linux is a good operating system for surfing, but only if you have the right flavor and if you can get the drivers for all the hardware.

hi palmetto, the US DEFENCE FORCE has recently awarded $25 million to linux to develop a program for their unmanned drones because the reason ( according to them ) is the windows program they were using was unreliable due to constant virus attacks, this is an answer to you regarding big business getting involved with linux. no i am not a linux fanboy.

not a business application. So it's not an answer.

Their problem is related more to the Chinese contractors they award govt. satellite network control contracts to, and the hardware embedded back doors they put in the chips. Redmond - I suspect - has been trying to actually fight this on the software side - I also suspect it is a losing battle; but Linux wouldn't have a chance in that case.

The whole government seems incredibly naive and fumble butts when it comes to actual "security" issues.

They are not a "business".

How can you award money to an OS rather than a company or consortium?

http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2012/06/09/u_s_navy_to_install_linux_on_vtol_drones
among others too numerous to link.

First, the contract was awarded by the US Navy; there is no 'US Defence Force'.

Second, it was $28 million, not $25.

Third, the contract was awarded to Raytheon, not 'Linux'. There is no company, organization, or other entity named 'Linux' to award a contract to.

Fourth, the drone model in question is a new model which is being built with Linux from the beginning. This model is not being switched from Windows, since it never had it.

Fifth and most specific to my original point, the Raytheon corporation itself is NOT switching it's internal systems to Linux. It's supplying a Linux solution to a government application. There are plenty of software companies and contractors that supply Linux solutions. Some of them undoubtedly use Linux as the primary OS for their internal operations. I'm still waiting for stories about a for-profit company (preferably a mid-sized or larger manufacturing firm, since that's where I work) that has successfully switched its own operations from Windows to Linux / open source.

told me that part of the satellite command and control runs through a Chinese contractor that was awarded such for their earth stations in Washington DC. All that other stuff doesn't matter if the head shed is being watched and manipulated by the actual signal coming in/out from space. My source hasn't been wrong about anything else that has come up, so far.

it doesn't much matter what software is used if contrary instructions are hard-coded on the chips.

...to have the unlimited funds that MS and alike think we have. I manage IT for a small city, and I still have server 2000 running. I don't think some companies realize how expensive it actually gets. I will be luck to be rid of XP when Windows 10 comes out.

So as you replace the machine, you get Windows 7

never crashed even with 8-10 hours per day of running small manufacturing company and surfing legal data, case law searches, ACAD, on an ancient Dell dimension 2400. Have over 600,000 files downloaded. I use Belarc advisor, have all security fixes, and antivirus (Avira Pro), CIS Benchmark score 3.13 of 10. Very satisfied. Will not change.

The Linux people comment the most because most of them can't find a shop that needs a Linux Sys Admin. They are too few and inbetween. They have the extra time on their hands to comment anywhere they can. The same argument happens from the Mac Cult. I love when one of them spouts out about no viruses or malware happens to them. What rock are they hiding under? I'm down to my last 5 offices to migrate to Win7. We have 19 locations total. They were running XP on 9 year old PC's. The PC's were finally giving out, and we had just about run out of replacement units; so we had to go to something new.

Using only programs that I really require at the office, I find Windows XP to be very stable and satisfying without having to upgrade to any of the other Microsoft Bloatware Operating Systems.

If only Vista had not become unsuccessful, I would see 33% share across xp, vista, and win7.

All of the Win7 systems are PRO versions with the WINXP virtual machines to run customer remote access applications that work with WinXP, such as Cisco VPN under Citrix Clients.

Works fine, it's already paid for and runs like a blizzard on new machines. Why would we want to change from Windows XP?!?

If you can define this word for me, I'll be able to answer.

Have just 'wasted' a whole day discovering that certain hardware manufactures e.g. Sony using audio chips e.g. Realtek HD with Windows 7 O.S have disabled certain 'features' e.g. 'Stereo Mix' or 'What you hear' access for recording. Then discover this is deliberate; an attempt to thwart recording of copyright material; but if I re-install XP I recover ALL functionality. There are a growing number of voices on the internet who are reverting to XP to recover recording functions. Wonder what else is no longer available in Vista, 7 or 8!

same capabilities as XP. With Microsoft really pushing hard to get XP out of use I expect a patch near the end of the advertised life that will make using XP harder to do.

Another option to look at is React OS, they're trying to do to XP what Linux did to Unix.

I would have thought a company is big and powerful as Microsoft could have told the recording industry to go hang. But MS has a long trail of stupid decisions, this is just one more of many. You can always trust the village idiot to do something idiotic.

vendor lock-in, so it's no surprise to me re their love affair with RIAA and MPAA as it helps get them support and justification for their Secure Computing outcome they used to try and sell as Palladium until it got shot down and they're now sneaking it in a little at a time by stealth.

And pushes people back towards Macs for profressional roles, this should be the last thing MS should want.

If the decision was calculated, then it was very near sighted.

pushed too many away yet, so I can see why they think people will accept it in the end - it's the old slow cooking the frog concept

I have been testing Win8 since the early Beta and really don't like it. I resent Microsoft's attitude of, 'We know better what you should use' and then they take away what we liked and are comfortable with. I don't mind innovation but why disable things that work (start button, boot to desktop, etc.). I have been complaining to Microsoft to offer users a choice, but they don't seem to listen or care.

Once I saw Win8, I seriously started to learn Mac OS X and I am glad I did. I am getting more and more calls about Apple support. I even 'converted' a desktop and laptop into Hackintosh computers to go along with my real MacBook Pro.

Prediction...
Microsoft secretly make Windows 8 so bad that people will finally upgrade from Windows XP to Windows 7. Once they realize how much people hate it, Windows 9 will offer users a choice and during installation, we might get a 'classic interface option' back.

Windows 8 Phone - not even 3rd on list of choice. From my experience in Canada, I only know ONE person (non-Microsoft employee) using a Windows phone and they had no choice. Their phone broke and that was all that was in stock.

Richard
www.compunetics.ca

Our small drafting office has had a really tough time over the last 4 years. Money is tight. Our PCs have been XP and will remain XP due to plotters and dedicated software. We cannot afford to replace all our perfectly good equipment and "paid for" software just because a new OS is releassed. In fact, had to search out a new PC that had components with available XP drivers in order to replace a dead box.

i have been reading on various websites that windows 8 might be locked down with the new bios system so that on new computers we wont be able to install older windows systems, not even linux, if this is right then when all old computers die we will have to move on to windows 8 etc.sucks.

We have NO Vista or Windows 7 on ANY machines at my work.
Because we are still running a DOS database program !!!
I'll spell it out for those who don't know what it is "Disk Operating System" DOS.
Woe be our IT guy.
I Run 64 bit Win 7 at home and like it. I also have more computing power than my CAD computer at work. I could do my work twice as fast on my home system.
I am being told I can not get the new version of my CAD programs this year because they no longer run on XP. ACK!!!!

As a company that maintains pabx's most being in maintenance contracts with the manufacturers who then get the local authorized repair shop to maintain them "us" we have to have certain software tools to maintain theses ageing systems much of which was written for either 98 or XP and will not run and by run I mean actually work correctly not just start, under vista or 7 we also require our laptops to have true serial ports as these old pieces of iron are only able to be programmed through rs232 and no USB to serial adapters do not work on some of these systems, so in order to meet our contractual obligations we must continue to have machines with serial ports and windows XP until such time as there are no longer any of these systems out there that we are under contract to maintain and as these old systems never say die and the fact that some are so big in terms of the number of extensions they have on them there is no modern equivalent to replace them with so it will probably be a very cold day in hell when we no longer have to have XP because the manufactures will never spend the money updating the maintenance tools for these long outdated dinosaurs that where built to never quit.