Discussion on:

How to detect and protect against workplace bullying

I must confess; I had not realized that bullying could occur in the workplace. Unfortunately, I had wrongfully associated bullying with adolescents. Adults can also be victims of bullying by not only adolescents but by other adults. Conflicts between staff might not be generated by difference in opinion over work or a work related issue. I need to be more sensitive to bullying in the workplace. This post has taught be to more sensitive to the problem.

But no one here is a bully that I can tell.

My most recent workplace has HR policies against bullying and sexual harrassment. In fact we have to go through HR-mandated ET every two years. This involves online classes and exams to ensure we understand the corporate policies.

Sadly, not all organizations are like that. Perhaps where you work, your workplace doesn't have the training programs, but the people treat each other with respect. My last company was like that. We all got along fine and even became like family as the company downsized.

Back when I used to get bullied, the bullying process generally started with a beating.

I arrived near the end of those days, then everything went verbal (and apparently now, digital). The other kids didn't much want to fight me though, I was the really tall kid, at least a foot and a half taller than the next tallest. and stayed that way till junior high. Only one guy was stronger than me (the typical short strong kid) but he wasn't a bully.

in Jr High and in High School. Not regularly or all the time, but still, I was. This was back in the late 1960's and early 1970's. I was one who didn't like to fight so I was picked on. I eventually was pushed past the breaking point and ended up "going medieval on their buttocks" as the saying goes. They left me alone after that and even became friendly to me. Moral of the story: If you are being bullied, kick their butts. They respect strength and will attack if they perceive you to be weak. Unfortunate, but that's the way the world works.

I'm not advocating doing this in the workplace, there are better ways to deal with it there.

They leave you alone if they think you might attack.

It's one of the major truths of life and people that don't stand up to them end up being door mats. I'm mystified as to why I was voted down on that one. (Don't get me wrong, I don't comment looking for votes, I don't care one way or the other, it just seemed odd in this case). Never had a problem with bullying in the workplace.

They go after you just to see your reaction or to show how tough they are.

when you smack them down, proving you are not an easy mark. Then, like the cowards they rally are, they find someone else to bully.

It's all about attitude and confidence and not whether you smack someone in the gob. That's why I use my experience to bring up my kids differently to what my parents did because my parents with all their good intentions always thought the simplistic way. There's always someone trying to prove themselves so in many cases smacking someone in the gob is just pointless. How do you suppose you handle bullying at work? Smack 'em in the gob? i don't think so. That is why tough talk is a load of b$%#*cks.

to what happened in Jr. High and High School, not at work.I know the article is about workplace bullying, but I was making a point about my school experience. Of course you handle the workplace stuff differently, but you still need to stand up to them. If you read my original comment, you would have known that. My point stands.

Then, even if you lose, they often won't bug you anymore just to avoid fighting you again.
Of course, if you feel like premeditating this, you can always find a bludgeoning weapon and use that, or just wreck their car or something.


I remember this one time in web dev class, these guys kept spying on what our group was building, and then saying **** about it.
So I wrote a program called "Groupchat" and put it in our dev folder that I knew they were spying on. I made the program log all access to it by writing the persons user name to a file, then the program would delete C:\boot.ini on their computer.
Was hilarious when the next day 6 computers were down. 6 idiots ran a random exe in our folder. Some did it more than once after getting their computer fixed.

If you allow yourself to be used as a doormat, people will wipe their feet on you.

One place I worked, several people tried to bully me, but they quickly learned that I could turn the tables and make them look like a fool. Such as announcing that I was the token chick so I could make the coffee. I made the coffee all right, and put it in a cup and delivered it. I didn't tell him that I'd put a cup of salt in the filter with the coffee. I just stood there with my eyebrow raised as he took the first sip, and never said a word.

After being told I was too stupid to be in IT, I got the same certification that the person who told me that had been trying for and failed the test 3 times. When I passed the first time, all I said was, "I thought you said this was hard. I passed the first time with a 95% accuracy."

You have to stand up to the bully and make them look like the idiot, but you have to do it within the rules and without becoming a bully yourself. If you walk around like you're a puppy that's been beaten, that invites the sharks in for the kill.

on the other hand it is mentioned that there is no legal measure for verbal bullying. So what can you do against such individuals ? It is actually funny how the article describes almost exactly an experience I went through with my former boss, including in all honesty panick attacks and sleepless nights. Funny thing is that as he looks I would think that physically speaking he might have been a perfect bullying target in his youth

Please give me tips on this important subject.

?

Management/Business/School culture too often either turns a blind eye to Bullying, participates in same, uses it as a form of entertainment and / or allows Social Darwinism to take its course.
Essentially, there is no way that Bullying cannot negatively effect the 'Bottom Line'. The Bottom Line here being negative costs to the organization and also, the quality / professionalism of the entire management / corporate chain.
What I have said here is simple: If you are management, a manager or teacher at any level in any organization and you failed to both detect and act on Bullying, YOU BLEW IT - both for the Bottom line and yourself, professionally. You don't like that - Deal With It.

Although I'm sure you mean well I would suggest you be careful about speaking in absolutes. The comment "You don't like that - Deal With It." sounds like something a bully would say.

bullying is a menace. first, pray to your god that your god opens your mined on what you do. then, you know when they will start when you meet them= record the event on your mobile phone=or start the video. if you dont have this recording phone= buy one (recording might stop when someone calls or alarms in your phone ). by this, at least you have proofs . then you can tell them=you might raise the issue with proofs. i dont suggest hurting back, as it may lead to injuries or their proof against you=warranting them more bullying on you.The bible even writes= JEHOVAH says,vengeance is mine.I will recompense (romans10:30-31).

Yes, vengeance is the Lord's, but that doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't defend yourself (or your loved ones). It only becomes vengeance when you go looking for the bully with the attitude that you are going to pay him back for what he did to you. I've stood up to bullies too many times, giving back what they gave (yes, hurting them back as you said). It works. They leave you alone and move on to easier targets because, they are ultimately, cowards.

I read that to mean that vengeance is a sacred obligation to the Higher Power of your understanding.
If I can't perform my sacred obligation, I resort to the Hue and Cry technique of English common law: I tell anyone I can what the bully is up to. Sooner or later, somebody will catch the bully at something large and actionable. One of my ex-bully bosses has gone to prison. Another died young (not by my hand), and the business which protected him had its licensing revoked in 2 states. A third lost its franchise.
This doesn't always work, but it has a better batting average than baseball.

What Politically Correct BS. What wimps. If you are being given too much sh*t at your workplace you either fight back or find something else. Americans are such *******.

...in this economy. I hope you're never on the recieving end. On the other hand, you sound as if you may have embryonic bullying talent developing, there...

I'm actually a psychologist and articles like this frighten me. The over exaggeration of what "may" happen is disheartening. It is similar to me writing an article that talks about the dangers of eating breakfast. You "may choke and die, get an intestinal parasite that causes nerve damage, or even swallow human fecal matter!" I'm not lying when I say it...technically...but it's a pretty exaggerated and far fetched way of wording it. Claiming people can develop PTSD, agoraphobia, panic disorder,etc. from the rather commonplace day to day occurrences in the workplace is very misleading. Except in the most extreme cases, someone *might* develop some mild to moderate depressive or anxiety symptoms and they are even less likely to develop a full blown "disorder." Not only that, but if they do develop these disorders, you better believe there is more going on than something at work.
I'm not saying I agree with bullying in any way, shape, or form...but let's not over exaggerate things and blow them completely out of proportion and reality.

Everything is a disease, everything is a sickness. Everything is blown out of proportion. That way, we can get "treatment" paid for by medical insurance. Most of this can be taken care of man to man, like it used to be. People are such wimps today, whining to the nanny state or nanny corporation to take care of them rather than dealing with it themselves.

My close friend has a job for almost 10 yrs. as an Administrative Ass't. for a multi-manager department in a large hospital in the midst of reorganization. Her prior boss was a rational man with a holistic view of how to manage a department. My friend was lauded and publicly recognized for her efficiency and quality of work. He retired, and the woman who replaced him immediately began bullying the people she managed, in order to push thier "Department of Organizational Excellence" (quite a contradiction in terms) to higher levels of productivity.

She exhibited ALL the bully symptoms listed, and MORE. This went on for about 5 yrs. The result was the loss of very qualified people who could not bear the stress. My friend developed ALL of the listed symptoms of the bullied AND serious medical issues - ulcers, and related internal disorders. She could not afford to leave this job in this economy, especially since she is close to retirement. The quality of care and attention given to the patients this department kept track of also suffered greatly, as most of this director's attention was focused on how good she and her department LOOKED, rather than the actual service they were supposed to provide.

So.... if you think for a moment that bullying in the workplace is not the cause of serious medical disorders, than you have never experienced it. My friend is not a wimp, or a victim - she raised 3 boys, struck out on her own, acquired training and worked very hard to become proficient in her medical field, and only after she started vomiting every morning before going to work did she seek help from Human Resources.

Fortunately, the "bully" has been repositioned, and everyone in the department is recovering from the "lockdown" mentality they were subjected to.

In my almost 40 years of career jobs, I've seen a lot in the workplace.

ExploreMN, I respect your expertise and wouldn't want to insult you, but your post leads me to believe that you haven't had "hands-on" experience in this matter.

It's well known that the stress of financial problems can cause every malady from relational problems to a bevy of stress-related physical problems. It's happened to me, and I've seen it happen to others.

Do you not think that an unstable workplace condition could cause all of that and more? When you're worried about your job, finances are at the top of your "worry list". Add to that the fact that, at least for males, our image of ourselves in the workplace is closely tied to our overall self esteem - it's hard to feel like an "alpha male" in your private life when you feel like you're "blowing it" at work.

Add all this up, and you've got a recipe for all sorts of mental and physical problems.

Fortunately, the only time I can remember any serious bullying by a manager, I was young and it didn't have the physical effect that it might have. I'm now at the ripe age of almost 60, and I could imagine such stress causing me trouble nowadays. Of course, my attitude toward work has changed considerably since then - I don't stay where I'm not valued. At this age I realize that no paycheck is worth dealing with abuse.

When I say "serious bullying"....

My manager would catch me walking to my bench (I was an "electronic technician" then), would start screaming, cussing, name-calling and flailing his arms in front of my face in front of the entire department, obviously trying to provoke a physical fight from me. BTW: I won that contest - went over his head and got his wings clipped

Fortunately, you don't see that kind of behavior often nowadays - I guess the bullies figured out that the joy of bullying is not worth the hospital visit that sometimes follows...

This kind of behaviors are as effective as the strength and ethics of the managerial people allows it to be. When someone is ill him or her needs the medicine to get over, bullying is a society illness, working environment illness, a way of mental and physical abuse in which everyone of us has the opportunity to help trying to erase such a dark point in someones life by means of facing and fighting it thoroughly.

Regardless of where you work, what industry you work in, your position, etc...unfortunately, nobody's immune...it can happen to anyone at any time. I started a job a couple of years back...everything went well at first, until my boss started offering "constructive criticism", which was fine at first...until it escalated into full-on bullying, and picking on everything I do, and telling me about how much of a miserable waste of space I am. It got to the point where I couldn't relax, couldn't sleep properly, and dreaded waking up every morning. After 6 months I quit. Honestly, don't think, "It'll never happen to me", because it can. And if it does happen, document and record EVERYTHING. Every insult, every put-down, every threat, EVERYTHING. If (as in my case) you are instructed by your bully to do something that is unprofessional, unethical or illegal, document that too.

Furthermore, there is nothing wrong with fighting back. In fact its the right thing to do. You should not take bullying lying down. Fight it as much as you are capable of doing so. You may be able to stop them, or at least have them not give you as much trouble. When they put you down, or tell you about how everything you do is wrong...make sure you have at least a couple of answers that you can use to fight back. Taking it lying down only confirms with the bully that you're weak, and that they can get away with whatever they want.

Finally, look after yourself. Eat well, and get plenty of sleep. When you're not at work, try not to think about work. Use positive self-talk. Relax. Treat yourself to something nice. And get support from your family and friends. And do whatever you can do to get yourself away from the situation, even if it means quitting. Your health and wellbeing is more important than your career.

When I was a child I found the best way to avoid bullying was to use humour and never show that you are afraid.
When I started work the best way was to get on with your work and do not let it affect your work performance.

So, what happens when you take a job that you've openly admitted you needed to be trained on, the person who needs to train you approves that decision, and then they only train you when the supervisor is around? Otherwise, they behave passive aggressively, and are downright rude. And your supervisor refuses to stand up for you because he/she isn't a "micro-manager". So you never learn everything you're supposed to learn. And then the person who was supposed to train you influences your friends so that they shun you. Yeah, lots of humor to use there. :P

In that case I would use the time I'm not being trained to either train myself or look for another work. If they want me to improve but don't allow it, then they don't need me. You can try to wait the others to change, but it will be a very long, frustrating and unhealty wait.

Sure; you can train yourself to a certain point. But if you're dealing with someone else's code, or some proprietary system that you don't have a ton of documentation for, it's incredibly slow. The economy is almost as slow to improve. Instead of waiting for others to change, perhaps it works better to remember that: 1. you never really know who your friends are at work. And: 2. If you allow someone at work to influence your perception of someone without having all the facts, you are potentially being manipulated. And: 3. When others refuse to change, find their flaws, find how they inhibit yours and others productivity, and point it out to your supervisor in a tasteful way. Every illusion has a flaw.

as I saw the situation as anything but funny. Whatever works.

My friend has worked for thirty years in the field of mental health, both as an EAP consultant for an American electronic company, for the NHS, for the private health care sector, for local government, and currently for a prestigious UK university as a mental health co-ordinator. In all of those jobs apart from in local government she has experienced some form of bullying. What amazes me is that the practitioners of this bullying behaviour are themselves qualified in one or other of the caring professions. In her present job she works with qualified counsellors, who are easily the worst. Some of it comes through jealousy of a more experienced and better qualfied colleague, but I find it quite inexcusable that somebody who is supposed to be more empathetic to others should exhibit this sort of behaviour. This has even included making disparaging remarks in meetings and in front of other professionals. My friend is doing as this article suggests, and keeping a dossier, but what a shame that these bullies feel they can get away with it.

This is a huge problem and keeps getting worse -- and the "man up and defend yourself" tactics don't work. Moreover, there is a website dedicated to this at bullyonline.org.

My primary experience with this is the dysfunctional environment in county government IT (it also is rampant in the corporation): Two managers controlling the millions of dollars and 85% of the people are married to each other and both are narcissistic tyrants in their own right. As it turns out, the wife now controls everything that is implemented because she is in production change control and her husband is in charge of all application development. This terrible twosome have wrecked people and ended careers and there have been any number if lawsuits. The one about age discrimination (as the Development Manager said: "We need younger people") was dismissed in Federal Court because the victim could not produce a Prima Facia case, but the Feds added that it had been proved it is a hostile environment.

This was all established 10 years ago by the IT Director (now retired from this mess), confirmed by the HR Director and blessed by the county lawyers. Unfortunately, it is against the law concerning conflict of interest, as my lawyer related to me.

They've made a mess of IT and even lied to the Sheriff's Department by putting down hours they say IT has worked for them, but actually the hours were internal to IT for their other projects (like the $700,000 on their own in house developed time tracking system which changed every week and crashed nearly as often). They now have a $7 million Federal Grant to redevelop the Legal System (in "open source"), but can't decide just how to do it (the Manager is going to rewrite the code himself). This past year, the IT Director hired 12 managers, but is laying off "the old guard" that knows anything about the working production systems.

Women in development have the hardest time: Three of them were layed off at the end of 2010 and the lawsuits about the discrimination are still pending.

It is difficult for a "normal" person to understand what it is like to be bullied and be treated with contempt, not by peers, but by management itself in a sort of slavery where you cannot actually do your job and snarky narcissists tell you in meetings "you are too old to understand the technology".

What can you do about it?

One competent retired military guy was hired, worked six days, looked around, declared "You people are nuts" and quit.

Fortunately, I was RIFFed and am happy on comfortable retirement learning the vaguries of technology and advancing my knowledge of C#, HTML5, CSS3 and JQuery, while doing copious research on topics such as this with tons of documentation.

The best resource I can suggest, besides the bully online website is "Snakes in Suits: When Psychopaths Go to Work" by Dr. Paul Babiak and Dr. Robert Hare and "Moral Mazes" by Robert Jackall.

Because after all that is said and done, when you have a dysfunctional environment with bullies (especially in management), you are dealing with sociopaths and psychopaths. Find a solution to them and you have solved the problem.

Good luck with that.

And may you be able to find a new career in a sane environment.

I work for a privately owned SMB, as a CEO report, managing a technology departmernt. The owner manages the company by proxy, turning the life of nearly all employees into a living hell by: creating new impossible policies on a daily basis, addressing employees in a rude negative manner, always in front of other. invalidating employees' benefits sometimes contradicting contractual clauses, down to minutea such as prohibiting hot drink cups in the office. All offices are conatinaully video monitored, cellphones are GPS tracked....you name it...
Being a senior IT professional, at this time and economy, I am looking for a way out, but it takes time, and in this case, time does not heal. I am no wimp. People who know me would testify that I can be a pitbull when needed. I have tried to put some red lines to what I will not tolerate,
Being new to the company, I experienced a culture shock. Later on I found that it is all about learning new vocabulary, setting your boundeeries, and letting others know them.
Turning the other cheek does not work with bullies.
The only way is learning the talk, walking the walk and aknowleging the fact that there are others that do not share your values.