Discussion on:

10 reasons why Ubuntu 12.10 desktop blows away Windows 8

I use Ubuntu to extend the life of machines that seem to quickly become underpowered with following Windows release.

I was surprised that the author did not provide a link to Ubuntu's requirements. I think it would be helpful to the reader.

12.10 requires more resources to run than 12.04.

if you have machines 2006, then stick to 11.10 or earlier distros of ubuntu.
well, that or mint.

My "Linux box" at home is a rather low-powered netbox that runs 12.04 okay as long as I'm not doing much more than web browsing (which really is almost all that I do on it), but opening new programs takes.

A.

While.

I think maybe I'll have to give Mint another look.

I dual boot a 3 year old laptop with Win7 and Mint... works great! No plans to change.

You can get the benefits of the Ubuntu repository and kernel fixes etc., by just using Xubuntu (either directly install, or after installing Ubuntu, add xubuntu-desktop as a package).

You have a computer guru

IT DEFEATS THE CONCEPT OF "PERSONAL COMPUTER"

I am thermonuclear against LINUX.

So if you're "thermonuclear against Linux, DON'T run it! It's your choice. The rest of the world doesn't care.

Over the years I have tried Ubuntu and other distros however it never fails some required support file, driver, etc. diverts my attention and requires me to search, read, learn, try, troubleshoot and fail. Seems like with Windows those issues are less noticeable. That said, after reading your brief, I will now try the new version.

Not sure why everyone keeps saying that the UI has changed in Windows 8. Metro is just a full screen Start Menu...they desktop and all of your legacy apps are still there and are being developed still. I have been running it since the consumer preview and now I am running the RTM thanks to tech net. I also run Linux and Mac machines, Ubuntu was my distro of choice but after unity it just sucks, I try every new version but keep going to CentOS 6.

Then you can change the GUI.
it's not that hard to do.

I'm really struggling to see the real benefits over windows 8 as attempted to be defined here. Most if not all these features outlined by the author are already available in Windows 8 in some form or fashion. I detect a hint of bias in this article due to the lack of objectivity.
1. Why would I want the amazon search feature? If I want to search amazon content I include the amazon keyword in my google search or I go to amazon's site. Going to amazon's site is not that hard. This amazon search feature is not necessary and does not add any real value in my opinion.
2. Dash Previews. I invite the author to right click a file in the search results of ANY recent windows versions and see how many options he is presented with.
3. Interface based on efficiency. I don't think I get your point here. Are you saying that having to use the mouse as well as the keyboard while doing work will make your experience inefficient?
I could continue but it's all in the same vein. UBUNTU 12.10 is comparable to Windows 8 to say the most. It definitely does not 'blow windows 8 away'.

Although I prefer Linux to Windows at this point in time, I do agree that the title is exagerated. I tried and really don't like "metro" on my desktop, and I do prefer Unity if those were my only two choices. Thank god they're not!

I really wish "Linux advocates" had a more realistic and tempered way of presenting things. This over-the-top "advertising" is really creepy. For instance, the "amazon search" thing has raised an uproar of discontent directed at Canonical. That Mr. Wallen is saying it's a wonderful "feature" is a dubious decision. I don't mind an occasional "lipstick on a pig", but this article is looking to pick a fight (or a flame war).

Such utopic presentations aren't useful as they leave the new user arriving on Linux wondering where the hell is that supposed utopia. I'm not saying the author is not entitled to his opionion, but temperance in his presentation would be a good pratice.

People who think anything other than Windows is going to be the dominant desktop really are out of touch with reality. The same can be said about people who think it can be replaced on business desktops. Who cares? Open-source software is not about market share. Lots and lots of good tools in the open source realm. Good desktops even. But why does it even matter? If you dig Ubuntu...or any other distro....knock yourself out. But stop lying about benefits that don't exist.

However... its very simple & easy to turn OFF the amazon search. Takes 2 seconds

Jack Wallen has been hoping Linux will become mainstream for years. Saying it is a winner doesn't make it so.

Windows 8 is going to push Linux farther and farther to the fringes. Android (Linux-based) is not a full-fledged operating system. Microsoft will have a consistent UI (and kernal) from phone, to tablet, to laptop, to desktop, and to server. We can probably include the XBox gaming console too, but I've never used a gaming console since the original Atari so I really can't say for sure. Let's not forget Microsoft's cloud software: SkyDrive, Outlook.com.

Microsoft just about has the Holy Grail when it comes to a unified ecosystem.

Linux is great for appliances: firewalls, phone servers (Inter-Tel), iMacs, and other devices where you don't want users getting under the hood. Linux is wonderful for the folks that like to brag about how much smarter they are than other people. It's great for the folks that like to dance to a different drummer.

I've been dealing with PC's since the CP/M and MP/M days. I was there when each vendor had a different flavor of CP/M. It was not fun. It was not productive.

I do not have any Microsoft stock.

Except, of course, for how every Win8 Surface tablet available today won't, oh, do things like run Windows software. And how all the WinPhone 7.x devices are falling by the wayside. And how all those Win7 licenses MS is so proud of having sold you won't run any of the WinRT apps.

Not sure "unified" means what you think it does. HTML5, once the vendors get past trying to stall the key standards - now THAT will be a unified experience.

Yes. Unless MS goes ahead with the Windows 8 Pro version of the Surface. Anyone who wants to transfer apps from their desktop can get that version. Though I wonder if the RT units can "talk" to desktops in other ways.

I know for sure that RDP and Citrix Receiver style remoting will be available on RT ... but that puts it on the same basis as iOS and Android and Linux, in terms of running Windows apps.

RT being able to RDP and having similar superpowers as iOS and Android is cool with me. My intent was to get the [cheaper] Surface RT to do what a hipster-version of me would do with an iPad.

My current convertible-tablet can be upgraded to Windows 8 Pro to do all those desktop like things (run Access, GIS, 3D-modeling, etc).

Of course, "APPS" is the name of the game. Office is a good start but they will need to bring in some heavy hitters. If MS goes RT all over their Streets & Trips GPS program, I can take the Surface on road trips instead of taking my more expensive Win8Pro convertible.

I find no requirement to go beyond office 2007. Ergo, I would consider W8 if my Office product will run well on it.

I have a DOS app running on my W8 Pro (actually Enterprise) tablet.

web apps are already the primary use by most people including companies whether internally hosted or "in the cloud".
Web apps are no longer tied to Microsoft or Windows.

BYOD is the new buzz at most companies including the fortune 50 one I work for... because all of our applications are web based. so mac, windows, linux doesn't matter.. browsers do

I think Microsoft's problem is that its lost its "hold" on what computing is and what people use it for. W/out that monopoly like control... their future is going to be alot tougher than their past.

Microsoft has both locally installed programs and web applications. Office is available in both flavors. I don't think this aspect of computing is their weakness. Their shortcomings are in device coolness and "web entertainment" software/services.

Until you loose your web connection and, with it, your application work. This web app model is nothing new. It's what the old guys would describe to me as the norm (terminals and mainframes). But local programs is still the way to go... in this case, go anywhere. Work anywhere you want.

Cut the cord, kids! Your parents pulling on your leash everytime you tried to run in the mall is NOT the norm.

I am running Windos7 now and have bin trying to switch to Ubuntu for several years and I have both systems installed on my dual boot desktop. With each new release I upgrade and hope that I will be able to completely switch to Ubuntu. I did not like the Dash but I got used to it. My problem is always to find the right drivers for the hardware that I have. Widows 7 goes out and automatically finds all the drivers that I need. Furthermore, some of the simplest things to get accomplished in Window takes a lot of extra work in Ubuntu. One example is copying a section of a picture. In Window I just use a tool to select a square and do Ctrl C and Ctrl P into my application. In Ubuntu I have to go from point to point to select the four sides and then it may not be square. I also have problems with Mail Merge. I have to search for everything in Ubuntu (maybe I am still on a learning curve) but in Windows I can get things done in a few minutes where it would take me half an hour or more in Ubuntu to do the same thing (Except Thunderbird and Firefox - I use both in Windows and Ubuntu). I have also been with computers since the days of CP/M and BBS'S and I do not like Microsoft and their hard-nosed ways (the likes of the former IBM dominant computer giant) and would love to get away from Windows entirely. I even tried some of the programs to run Windows programs from within Ubuntu but always there are several that I cannot run. Sometimes I have problems with Firefox where some sites will not display or run everything on the site and I have to use Explorer to get don what I want.

I do think though, that eventually the Linux based Ubuntu will replace Windows the way that Microsoft replaced IBM as the dominant computer operating system and Microsoft will go the way of IBM.

The ability to do emails, browse the web, write office documentation such as spreadsheets, podcasts, slide presentations etc, will be present in every product that we know or will appear. In all likelihood, if Linux takes a bigger share of the Market, MS will release a Linux version so as to not lose its bread and butter product. Office products will be the next race.

Glad to read that Ubuntu is becoming more and more a very viable to Windows, and for Windows-8 in particular for business and serious personal PC users. It will be interesting to see if, how, and when Microsoft responds. If they want to give business away to their competitors, that is their choice to make. But, it is axiomatic that when you lose business, it is so much harder to get it back.

"Jack's primary focus is on the Linux operating system and its effects on the open source and non-open source communities"
says it all really...........total and uttter load of codswallop I appreciate that Ubuntu is a good OS, but it is no where ready for what Win8 has to give.!.Why on earth does TR make stupid statements of this ilk...rather dissapointing somewhat.

I understand your feelings, at least I am trying to (am having some trouble with it, though). Your article has a very funny title to be honest. Could it be possible that you could curb your enthusiasm a bit and give your article a bit more of a realistic and fathomable title than "..blows windows away" ? I've noticed a trend of articles and blog posts online using nice vocabulary and a morbidly garish use of tech keywords to make it sound like the author knows what he is blabbering about. This article is one of those. Amazon.com search results in my face? No, thanks, I don't use it and I am sure a lot of people don't. How is it a feature? Just...How? *sigh*....

" If the file is a document, the preview will allow you to open the containing folder, open the file, or email the file."

Wow, ingenious. Windows never really had it...Windows 8 especially doesn't have it on the wall where you right click on it and is presented with many options at the bottom. Oh Windows 8 doesn't have it. *SARCASM INTENDED*

" I can attest, after using Unity since it first launched, that 12.10 is the most efficient desktop interface I have ever used."

Of course, Bill Gates and Steve Jobs (did) crave YOUR opinions as they are obviously expert opinions. *SARCASM INTENDED AGAIN*

"Ubuntu 12.10 has Web services directly integrated into both the Launcher and the Dash, making it one of the most well connected interfaces on the planet. The simplest example of this is the ability to have the arrival of Gmail announced in the notification area."

Sorry to burst your bubble but that integration has been introduced in Windows 8 as well. With the mail metro app, I get the email notifications on my desktop, at the top corner and it's a Windows issued notification.

"To take this to a new level, it decided to allow users to share files with others via Share Links. This feature lets you copy links to files within your UbuntuOne cloud storage and share those files with other users"

Read this, please:
http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/how-to/windows/3360327/how-share-photos-files-windows-8-skydrive/

AND OUCH, I can't play all of my games on the "blowing" Ubuntu, at least not with 100% gaurantee or using the full potential of my graphics card.

Ubuntu is good, Linux is good. It's open Source, it's beautiful, perfectly suitable to those who don't have to play a lot of games and those who don't have to use applications which rely on Wine.

But really, don't make yourself the target of justified ridicule by choosing the title that you did for your article.

Thanks.

...this is funny story, if Ubuntu is so fine and good OS there's no need to compare it with any other, specialy not Windows 8. Big differeces are, so, that's good, people can choose and make their choises. Some of us likes Windows, good or bad OS, and some likes Linux,,,take what's the best of both of them...don't salt my mind about "mine is bigger"...that's stupid. Can't talk anybody in. We can try both of these and decide what is better for us. You keep on with Ubuntu, I want to give a chance to Windows 8, and I belive everybody should do the same. After that, we can talk.

I can't stop laughing after seeing the "amazon search" feature listed as the first reason why Ubuntu is going to beat Windows 8...haha.

Please, to whomever in charge on approving publish in 10 Things. Please don't ever let articles like this published online. It's going to ruin the good reputation on a site I really love.

Thanks in advance.

This 'comparison' is laughable and is a typical response from someone that dislikes Microsoft products 'on principle' as opposed to disliking them based on a mature debate of the features.

1 - Amazon Search. Hmm. Yes, great if you like shopping on Amazon. On Win8 you could use 'Bing Desktop' to search the ENTIRE internet, not just one site.

Actually, it's a waste of time to say any more about the other points which are equally blinkered. I agree with the post from overscaled. This article is junk.

Actually it's even betteryou can just open the chams bar, click search type in what you want to search for and Select where you want to search, Bing, Skydrive, apps, settings, Windows app store, contacts, maps and so on.

If Amazon releases an app, you can search in that aswell.

Windows 8 runs games.
Ubuntu? not so much.

Windows also has a LOAD of software that the Linux community can make mimics of.

If you're using a PC to surf and listen to music, Ubuntu as an OS is excellent.
it even lets you get a little fancy and do some neat stuff, should you feel the urge.
but will the average user feel comfortable using it?
noooope nope nope.

windows is what people use,
so they inherently feel more comfortable with it, even after a new version is installed.

the reasons you listed, author, don't really apply too much to a normal user.

That is all...

Number 1... Amazon Search. Now that's important? It would be about number 500 or so on my list. Now that I think about it, not on my list.

I see nothing that comes even close to Windows 8 in your Ubuntu offering. Are you sure you worded that headline the right way round? This question of using fingers or a mouse, does not Windows 8 allow you to use fingers as a mouse and keyboard ? I must confess that I have not used Ubuntu 12.10 but I see nothing there that would draw me away from Windows

Sorry, but it's still Linux and on the server - yeah, ok, but the desktop - fail. I appreciate all the hard work by Ubuntu and if that's what floats your boat - go for it. I'll stick with Windows (by the way, 8 is pretty dang neat! 7 is the way to stay, though, at the moment if you are a gamer). Just sayin'...

Normally the Linux guys get out in support of these sorts of articles. I can't remember a flame-bait article like this that's had such little support for Linux in the comments.

I certainly agree with others that there's not much in this article to suggest Ubuntu is going to blow away Windows 8 (which, of course, is not the only option. Many - probably most - people will stay on Windows XP or 7). And the language in the article is far too strong.

As someone that logs into servers all day long, the Remote Login feature sounds interesting to me. Having applied more thought to it, I don't know that I would actually use it. There are certain people out there that would appreciate it a lot, but it's not a mainstream feature that's going to drive people away from Windows.

I agree with the author about app installation. Windows has remained old-school on this for a long time. I believe they are introducing an app market with Windows 8 so perhaps that's about to change.

As for the other 8 points - they are all very weak. I can save two clicks when I want to search Amazon??? Wowee!! I actually agree that a good API around this could open up a lot of cool integrations in the future. I seriously doubt companies will be investing time to do it for Linux though. When such an API is built in to iOS people will start using it.

Dash Previews? Do you realise every advantage you listed has been available in Windows since, what, 2000?

Efficient interface? I didn't see a lot that sounded game-changing. I'd expect Ubuntu to have better keyboard support given the nature of its users. Windows has always had pretty good keyboard support too. Very few people actually use it though, so again it's hardly going to drive people away from Windows.

Integrated web services - do these need setting up. If so, wheres the advantage of just installing the existing applications that do this for you already (I remember using a toolbar app that notified me of new gmail messages several years ago).

UI change - yeah, this could certainly be a sticking point for Windows 8. History shows that when Microsoft releases big changes like this people hate it, but a few years later couldn't imagine going back. In any event, this isn't a differentiator. In fact, your description of the changes in Unity sounds like you were describing Windows 8! A massive/contentious change, but you can go back to the old way if you want to.

Same interface for tablet and PC - I'm not sure how you missed this, but Windows 8 is doing this too.

Performace - Windows 7 and 8 both make great use of hardware, and run on low-performance machines.

File sharing - I would have thought Dropbox has this market cornered. And I tend to believe in monopolies for these sorts of things - it works best when everyone uses the same system. Perhaps something new will come along and replace Dropbox, but it will take a platform with a critical mass (like iOS) to make that shift happen. It doesn't even matter if the Ubunut file sharing is superior.

Overall, this is a disappointing article, but not unexpected from Jack.

Have you tried NoMachine (NX Client for Windows) to log in to your Linux servers? Between !M and webmin there is nothing lacking from remote login.

I have been using Windows 8 Preview Release and seriously like it very much. And the Start Screen doesn't pose a problem, for me anyway. I had Ubuntu 12.04 installed and, despite being able to tweaking it, I didn't gel with the style and ended up switching to Mint 12, which I like better.

The Amazon part is great if you live in the US - what about Amazon.co.uk?

I cannot see much difference in 12.10. But Windows 8 was what really impressed me the most. I think it is a matter of opinion, taste, and so on. Mint will be kept on my Computers, I have been looking forward to the release of Ubuntu 12.10 but I feel a tad unimpressed as I was expecting more. Yet October 26th is what I am looking forward to the most.

Again, personal taste and I think that both offer 'some' things the other doesn't.

Can I run Mint from a USB flashdrive (like Ubuntu)?

If not I guess I can try it using Oracle's VirtualBox program.

2 youtube video that explains how to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02jP2Bf-DPU&feature=fvwrel&continue_action=N-vaJu8efAxkG3wDTZxgLJJzzL08vZqzU3xm0u4J5t_J5ugMQevQLBqrFy5EJ11P7eUisW-dxpW7WtK2eCBxMq9nAq6ATO9buyyBzR6VRvM=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_398099&feature=iv&src_vid=02jP2Bf-DPU&v=bwyeRWmAf7Y

See above.

Mint 12 (and before) was the only one that could be installed as Mint 13 Maya has to be used via an ISO file. So I had to use a 'Virtual Clone Drive' to install it: http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/20079/install-linux-mint-on-your-windows-computer-or-netbook/ I don't know why Mint 13 Maya chose no other way to install it.

Mint really is good looking, but when I went into it yesterday and installed the updates, it slowed down to a snails pace. I uninstalled it and will probably go back to Ubuntu. Mint though may work Ok for you.

You forgot the other HORRIBLE releases of Windows including 95, 98, NT, 2000, 7. Curious. You seemed to have left those out. You must be happy we're all using Ubuntu nowadays. After all these years people know how horrible Windows has been the past 18 years. I'm glad they all saw what you did and switched over.

The author asks at the end of his article: "What other factors do you think make one platform better than the other?"
I'll tell you what is a huge factor for me: I want to have the freedom of working with the much maligned "proprietary software" if I want to. Ardent supporters of "free software" movement would tell you that with Ubuntu or other flavors of Linux you can do everything you can do with proprietary software. You hear things like: "Gimp is just as good as Photoshop". What they mean is that you can do (almost) anything you can do with proprietary software. Sure, an old Lada, a Yugo, any Toyota model and a Ferrari can all take you across the US. It's OK with me if driving a Lada or a Yugo makes you feel ideologically pure. I'll take the Toyota, thank you. I'll take the Ferrari if I can afford it.

I find the unity desktop slow and clunky. Why would I want to search amazon as part of a general search? Perhaps Jack has access to very fast internet, bloody slow on satellite!
The first thing I do with Ubuntu is to install XFCE....suddenly it is fast and functional. I must be old fashioned but I can do without the pretties.

All those points are fine, for the home user. However, practically all corporate / business environments use Microsoft products, which don't run so well on Ubuntu, not even in Wine. Try Outlook 2010 for example, its just about the most used application for many and no Linux expert I ever met got it to work properly in Wine.

Many enterprise apps that are browser based are only supported in IE, so Firefox is often a non-starter.

Before people start saying 'develop your apps correctly for multiple browsers then', many large companies are still using Win XP and AS400 as the upgrade costs are ferocious. It would be far more expensive to migrate Windows XP to Linux than Windows XP to Win7/8, even if you exclude retraining the 250,000 employees to use it.

Quote:
Try Outlook 2010 for example, its just about the most used application for many and no Linux expert I ever met got it to work properly in Wine.

The above is a classic error when people switch to Linux. They try to Migrate software from windows to Linux. Never try to migrate windows to Linux but look for alternative software then you will succeed. There exists some apps that are multi platform, but still differs slightly in Linux.

For Outlook you can try Thunderbird. It has many add-on for free that make it compatible with MS exchange server and is easy to sync you calendar to Google calendar. And believe me, it has many feature that you not have in Outlook

Regarding Firefox you need to tweak it a little bit in order to make it compatible, especially for some java script. Google a bit.

Sure, there are alternative email clients. There are alternatives for most applications. But you're blowing a massive hole in your "3. cost u nothing" argument. Sure, there are no licensing fees but that's not where the cost is. The cost is in time. Time to test the alternatives,to document the new system, to train users, to hand-hold users in doing things that you have already documented and trained them in (because it doesn't matter how clearly you document things - it will always be easier to call tech support than to read), and time to overcome any issues (does Thunderbird talk to Exchange? Does OOF work? How do we migrate across existing mail? What about auto-complete addresses? What do we do about features we currently have that just don't exist in the new system?). Now do this for all the other application you can not use on Linux. Even for a very small office, that adds up to a big expense.

This is why your first post is so far off the mark (well, apart from the incorrect 'facts' you asserted). Not being aware of all of the above issues is being ignorant. And heck, talk about putting the cart before the horse... you haven't even made a case for why someone would go to all the effort of finding and learning all these new applications instead of sticking to Windows.

I don't see your points as issue. If you have test tunderbird you will have never post yur comment. What you think is missing in thunderbird is not missing. The only thing missing in thunderbird is the send and receive window, who isapparently showed in the activity manager.

quote; because it doesn't matter how clearly you document things - it will always be easier to call tech support than to read

Reacting on above, people alwy call on it on new and old system. See my sencond post "Second Opinion".

Beleive me, migrating from Outlook to Thunderbird cost you nothing and it is free. Give a try.

I have used Thunderbird. In a previous job I used to use it exclusively. It was usable, but not a particularly pleasant experience back then (about 4 years ago). I last looked at it last week - it's interface has come a long way. It looks quite nice now.

It seems as though you are talking from a home-user point of view, because you keep saying that it is free to try. That's only true if you place no value on your time. In most businesses the biggest cost is wages. As an example I look after the IT for a number of small businesses that aren't big enough to have a full-time IT staff member. I charge in the $80-$100 for most clients. Just off the top of my head here are some things I need to do/consider if I want to move from Outlook to Thunderbird:
- Download Thunderbird and install it on a computer
- Find the best Exchange addin for Thunderbird, download it, install it and configure it (if there are multiple addons I may need to test several).
- Figure out how to get existing mail (which, for most clients, includes archive PSTs on a local drive) into Thunderbird
- Figure out how to auto-setup the users email account (or document it and deal with the calls from people that can't get it working)
- Figure out how special features, like OOF, calendar sharing, opening other people's mailbox as an additional, distribution group support (users can manage their own distribution groups through Outlook if I give them permission - can Thunderbird?), figure out how to get auto-complete email addresses (the N2K file) into Thunderbird, figure out how to move tasks, rules and junk email settings over. And many of my users have SharePoint lists in Outlook. Does Thunderbird support that?
- Come up with a migration plan, and keep users in the loop and distribute documentation.
- Then do the migration, deal with all the issues that come up, and then work out any bugs in things that don't work right (and there will be bugs... even Outlook has bugs and pretty much everyone with an Exchange server uses Outlook. Thunderbird and any addons needed won't have anywhere near the testing Outlook has had).

If you think you're going to convince me that the cost to do all that is nothing you are delusional. Heck, just brainstorming and writing this comment has taken 15 minutes. From experience on migrations of other software, I can estimate doing the above would take me at least 15 hours. To do it properly (documenting it well, planning the migration well, and including all the teething issues) you could easily double that number. For my clients, the cost would be $1200 - $3000 in my time. If a company had their own in-house IT staff the hourly rate might be half what I charge, but they would likely spend longer to test and document things better. And that's not including the cost of lost time it takes all other staff to move over and deal with teething issues (instead of doing their actual work). And it's also not including the cost of the lost features (you may say Thunderbird has the same feature set as Outlook, but it's not true. Without doing any research I'd be pretty sure that there's no way to connect a SharePoint list to Thunderbird - something many of my clients do with Outlook).

Believe me, I will not spend my time with you. Due I charge USD 200 @ hour and keep replying to you wil spoil my earnings!!!!

Computer and Network Administrator and IT Consultant.

Just as a point of interest, there was a guy that worked for a relatively small real estate company (about 15 PC users). They had an Exchange 2003/Office 2003 environment. This guy was a big open source fan and put a proposal to management to throw away their existing software and move to open source replacements (the same thing you seem to be advocating here). Even though everyone in that company is very tech-illiterate they could all see that this proposal was bananas. They sacked him, and now my company looks after their IT.

The lessons I take out of this story:
* Don't go changing what people are comfortable with (unless you have a *very* good reason).
* Don't go preaching your personal preferences
* If the new solution truly is as good as you believe, let it stand on its merits... don't exaggerate and lie (are you listening, Mr Wallen?)

Lesson number 2
if someone fails in the attempt does not mean that everybody will fails.

If "success" means completing a migration away from a full-featured and well-tested product, and it cost you $3000 more (see my post above) than sticking with the more appropriate solution, you'd better think a bit harder next time before deciding to take on the project.

That's rich! Most people don't know about Linux, Ubuntu, (or even Windows 8, yet). There's no booth in a mall anywhere where they let people demo UbuntuBooks (tm) or tablets running Ubuntu. There are no TV or radio ads. There's no way for most people to know what this is or how it can help them. And because of that no one is creating useful software for it. LibreOffice is not the Justin Bieber of Computerlandia. The Chinese aren't even opening counterfeit Ubuntu Stores in Peking or Shanghai... which apparently is standard of knowing you've "made it". It's possible more [old] people know about OS/2 Warp.

You are right that there are no "counterfeit Ubuntu Stores in Peking and Shanghai"...why should there be when the Chinese can pull down the distribution for free?

In reality, many years ago the Chinese created "Red Flag Software" which was much the same as Red Hat Software, and was sold in the government's Post Offices. Over time this migrated to Asianux, which was a joint creation of China, Korea and Japan.

A lot of GNU/Linux people in China also use Debian, as well as other distributions.

It is true that many more people in China use pirated copies of Windows than they use GNU/Linux. However, as the government cracks down on PC piracy due to WTO requirements (piracy has dropped from 92% to 84% over the past few years), the number of Free Software users grows.

As to whether there are any PCs in stores running GNU/Linux in stores, the reason there are few stores showing this is the same as anyplace. Most "computer stores" do not sell computers...they sell shelf space. As long as a majority of the people come into the store and are happy taking home a PC with MS Windows on it, they will continue to stock Windows PC, since they only have so much shelf space. It has nothing to do with the "goodness" of the OS. And since GNU/Linux users know that they can install their OS on the "Windows PC", they do not demand the in-store PCs run GNU/Linux in the store.

Companies and government in China have to pay for their software (under WTO rules), so we may see them go to GNU/Linux faster. And this does not even consider the fact that under current economic conditions, there will be fewer and fewer reasons for the Chinese to ship billions of dollars to the USA to pay for software that they have no control over.

Wow. Irony goes right over you, doesn't it? Let's move past the peoples' party and go straight to Best Buy. It's a store. They sold tons of WinPCs for years and then someone there decided to sell Macs. Now they sell Macs and PCs. This cascaded to iPads. Which resulted in Android tablets. Now there's Chromebooks. So there's plenty of "shelf space" as you calls it. But there's still no Linux. Why? Because no one knows what it is. You can get all highfalutin and banish regular consumers to the nerd dungeons but you're missing the reality of it all. Linux does not exist on the minds of the populace.

... of information available. Advertisements are not the only or even the best source of information. If people are dumb enough to think ads are educational, they have bigger problems that the OS the choose.

Ignorance is a choice and those that choose it deserve everything they get. I'm over holding peoples hands, they should grow up and think for themselves.

I don't think you should call people 'dumb' unless you're willing to apply that to yourself. Advertisements are just a way to find out about something. Word-of-mouth, periodicals, and seeing someone else with something are ways to learn about new stuff, too, but neither beats out advertising in speed and distance.

There's no one who can research a topic/object/person they've never heard of or didn't even knew existed. How do you search-engine "Linux" if you've never heard of the word?

Clearly, as a person who doesn't know the meaning of "educational" and "ignorance" you shouldn't be holding people's hands for any reason.

Advertisements are a way to try and convince people to buy your product. They are not a source of reliable information.

How do you discover things? By reading widely, reading non-advertising content that is. By being interested in everything and spending time investigating new things. By keeping up with the scientists and researchers who discover and invent new technologies.

In other words by choosing not to remain ignorant and by not expecting someone else to think for me.

Right. Because Tech Republic gives us non-biased information about new things. I guess there could be such a thing as non-advertising content... in magazines and websites... with advertising to keep them running. Sure, smartest guy in the world, I see you've thought about this thoroughly. PS: Ever wonder if this particular article is trying to convince us towards the author's bias? Wait, I know you're answer already: "Nope".

Ever heard of Science magazine? Ever heard of textbooks written for educational purposes? Just because it's not shoved in your face doesn't mean they don't exist. Make an effort to find things out.

"6 to 8 hours to setup and configure the [Windows] system
manually."

You must be doing it wrong.

When you Installing windows it comes plane. To install some basic software to make the computer ready to use (Office, Adobe, flashplayer, 7zip, etc) and patch all windows update from Windows update or from script take above the 4 hours.
I use slipstream CD with service pack 3 and I know how to slipstream all patches in to the cd (DVD). But when we compare apple you need to compare it with apple.

Therefore If i take a plain Windows CD with a plain Ubuntu CD and install in on the same machine the fact is that your Ubuntu system install faster and is ready to use with office apps, pdf apps , compression apps, etc.

Test ububtu 12.04 with an open mind and post back. I'm doing nothing wrong. My experience with computer is average. I'm a Network and Computer Administrator, Software Designer and IT consultant. When I post something it is not just a comment but based on experience.

"1 Easy and fast installation"
It takes a bit under 30 minutes to install Windows on low-end modern hardware. Ubuntu is about the same.

"2 Ready to Use"
I don't disagree with the heading, but your assertion that it takes 4-8 hours to configure Windows is miles off. I personally have an auto-installer program (that uses silent install switches and offline installers for al lmy programs), so it takes about 20 minutes to install all software. Even without these I couldn't imagine taking 4 hours to configure a machine. If it took me that long I'd be sacked!

"3 Cost u nothing"
I've already posted about this, but even if you ignore the fact that 95% of the worlds PCs include a Windows license, and that LibreOffice is available for free on WIndows too (yet, and this is a hint, virtually everybody prefers Microsoft Office), you still have the massive issue of time. The cost of change is huge and unless you place literally zero value on your time, generally isn't worth it.

"4 No antivirrus required"
A fallacy, and Windows has an excellent anti-virus system available at no cost (even for business users).

"5 Ubuntu has improve in many way to install and to look for application. "
There's an app store for Windows 8. (I certainly agree Windows has lagged behind in this area though).

"6 Last but not least, the best OS kernel in the world is Linux."
A circular argument. What's the reason Linux is the best? Because it's the best!

"7 Effecient with Memory Ram"
Windows ain't bad either. It's requirements have hardly changed in 7 years.


In the end, the question of which OS is best doesn't actually matter that much. What people tend to ask themselves is "does this OS offer enough benefit to outweigh the cost of change?". While the cost of chaging to Linux is as high as it is, don't expect swarms of people to go changing. You know what - some people actually have more important things to do with their time than arbritarily change OS'.

I told you, have a look for your self

Thu 10/25/2012 10:08:07.12: "Detect Os bit"
Thu 10/25/2012 10:08:07.44: "Detect cd rom"
Thu 10/25/2012 10:08:07.65: "Detect newstatid"
Thu 10/25/2012 10:08:09.19: "Enable Debug Mode"
Thu 10/25/2012 10:08:11.39: "Eject CD"
Thu 10/25/2012 10:08:22.23: "Copy WU And SW Disk(s)"
Thu 10/25/2012 10:09:42.14: "Copy setup Folder From Deploy"
Thu 10/25/2012 10:11:07.92: "Collecting newcompname and Producktkey"
Thu 10/25/2012 10:11:18.70: "Label Drive C"
Thu 10/25/2012 10:11:20.04: "Label and Format Drive D"
Thu 10/25/2012 10:11:41.98: "Copy Users folder to D"
Thu 10/25/2012 10:11:45.98: "Reset static Ip"
Thu 10/25/2012 10:12:10.67: "Rename Computer Name"
Thu 10/25/2012 10:12:12.33: "Enable auto Login"
Thu 10/25/2012 10:12:13.45: "Install Drivers"
Thu 10/25/2012 10:12:23.50: "Change Install Paramater"
Thu 10/25/2012 10:12:24.54: "Rebooting computer"
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Thu 10/25/2012 12:58:58.28: "Installing 191 of 231 ... 7029-kb2564958.exe"
Thu 10/25/2012 12:59:38.21: "Installing 192 of 231 ... 7030-kb2592799.exe"
Thu 10/25/2012 13:02:07.96: "Installing 193 of 231 ... 7031-kb2572078.exe"
Thu 10/25/2012 13:06:03.71: "Installing 194 of 231 ... 7032-kb2572073.exe"
Thu 10/25/2012 13:07:07.81: "Installing 195 of 231 ... 7033-kb961503.exe"
Thu 10/25/2012 13:07:44.21: "Installing 196 of 231 ... 8001-kb2736233.exe"
Thu 10/25/2012 13:08:20.75: "Installing 197 of 231 ... 8002-kb2723135.exe"
Thu 10/25/2012 13:09:01.09: "Installing 198 of 231 ... 8003-kb2731847.exe"
Thu 10/25/2012 13:09:43.00: "Installing 199 of 231 ... 8004-kb2705219.exe"
Thu 10/25/2012 13:10:20.93: "Installing 200 of 231 ... 8005-kb2712808.exe"
Thu 10/25/2012 13:10:34.31: "Installing 201 of 231 ... 8006-kb2722913.exe"
Thu 10/25/2012 13:10:34.53: "Installing 202 of 231 ... 8007-KB2728973.exe"
Thu 10/25/2012 13:11:22.25: "Installing 203 of 231 ... 8008-kb2698365.exe"
Thu 10/25/2012 13:11:40.40: "Installing 204 of 231 ... 8009-KB943729.exe"
Thu 10/25/2012 13:12:14.78: "Installing 205 of 231 ... 8010-KB2656370.exe"
Thu 10/25/2012 13:16:08.65: "Installing 206 of 231 ... 8011-KB2604092.exe"
Thu 10/25/2012 13:19:37.46: "Installing 207 of 231 ... 8012-KB2656369.exe"
Thu 10/25/2012 13:23:15.87: "Installing 208 of 231 ... 8013-KB2686828.exe"
Thu 10/25/2012 13:23:39.93: "Installing 209 of 231 ... 8014-KB2604110.exe"
Thu 10/25/2012 13:23:51.03: "Installing 210 of 231 ... 8015-KB2656407.exe"
Thu 10/25/2012 13:24:02.31: "Installing 211 of 231 ... 8016-KB2604111.exe"
Thu 10/25/2012 13:31:39.53: "Installing 212 of 231 ... 8017-KB2604121.exe"
Thu 10/25/2012 13:35:12.18: "Installing 213 of 231 ... 8018-KB2656368.exe"
Thu 10/25/2012 13:38:43.06: "Installing 214 of 231 ... 8019-KB2656405.exe"
Thu 10/25/2012 13:41:30.09: "Installing 215 of 231 ... 8020-KB2686827.exe"
Thu 10/25/2012 13:42:11.50: "Installing 216 of 231 ... 8021-KB2544893.exe"
Thu 10/25/2012 13:42:47.15: "Installing 217 of 231 ... 8022-KB2653956.exe"
Thu 10/25/2012 13:43:35.96: "Installing 218 of 231 ... 8023-KB2655992.exe"
Thu 10/25/2012 13:44:12.81: "Installing 219 of 231 ... 8024-KB2659262.exe"
Thu 10/25/2012 13:45:12.28: "Installing 220 of 231 ... 8025-KB2676562.exe"
Thu 10/25/2012 13:45:56.34: "Installing 221 of 231 ... 8026-KB2686509.exe"
Thu 10/25/2012 13:47:00.53: "Installing 222 of 231 ... 8027-KB2691442.exe"
Thu 10/25/2012 13:47:45.62: "Installing 223 of 231 ... 8028-KB2707511.exe"
Thu 10/25/2012 13:48:31.03: "Installing 224 of 231 ... 8029-KB2719985.exe"
Thu 10/25/2012 13:48:33.15: "Installing 225 of 231 ... 8030-KB931125.exe"
Thu 10/25/2012 13:49:20.78: "Installing 226 of 231 ... 8031-KB2718704.exe"
Thu 10/25/2012 13:49:33.56: "Installing 227 of 231 ... 8032-kb2744842.exe"
Thu 10/25/2012 13:50:24.90: "Installing 228 of 231 ... 8033-kb2661254.exe"
Thu 10/25/2012 13:51:30.53: "Installing 229 of 231 ... 8034-kb2724197.exe"
Thu 10/25/2012 13:52:19.12: "Installing 230 of 231 ... 8035-kb2749655.exe"
Thu 10/25/2012 13:52:39.03: "Installing 231 of 231 ... 8036-kb2756822.exe"
Thu 10/25/2012 10:13:48.40: "Windows Update" 1
Thu 10/25/2012 13:52:41.12: "Change Install Paramater"
Thu 10/25/2012 13:52:42.18: "Rebooting computer"

Thu 10/25/2012 14:00:10.85: "Install Remote Administrator"
Thu 10/25/2012 14:25:08.90: "Install Remote Administrator"
Thu 10/25/2012 14:26:38.50: "Install Avg"
Thu 10/25/2012 14:32:46.09: "Configure Avg"
Thu 10/25/2012 14:33:12.18: "Change Install Paramater"
Thu 10/25/2012 14:33:16.39: "Rebooting computer"

Thu 10/25/2012 14:35:17.17: "Start Radmin Service"
Thu 10/25/2012 14:36:23.59: "Start Avg utills"
Thu 10/25/2012 14:36:25.56: "Installing Citrix"
Thu 10/25/2012 14:37:14.12: "Installing MS Offices 2003"
Thu 10/25/2012 14:42:58.90: "Installing Office 2003 Service Pack 3"
Thu 10/25/2012 16:24:12.07: "Installing Office 2007 Compatability Pack"
Thu 10/25/2012 16:25:53.42: "Installing Pervasive SQL 8.60"
Thu 10/25/2012 16:28:51.64: "Installing Adobe Reader"
Thu 10/25/2012 16:31:42.00: "Installing Ccleaner"
Thu 10/25/2012 16:33:18.21: "Installing Defragler"
Thu 10/25/2012 16:37:10.53: "Installing Firefox"
Thu 10/25/2012 16:37:51.90: "Installing Flashplayer"
Thu 10/25/2012 16:38:30.93: "Installing Java"
Thu 10/25/2012 16:41:24.59: "Installing PDF Creator"
Thu 10/25/2012 16:41:25.64: "Installing Skype"
Thu 10/25/2012 16:46:32.04: "Installing WindowsDefender"
Thu 10/25/2012 16:48:32.95: "BM config"
Thu 10/25/2012 16:48:42.10: "Join Domain"
"Enable auto Login"
Thu 10/25/2012 16:48:58.50: "Change Install Paramater"
Thu 10/25/2012 16:48:59.68: "Rebooting computer"

Thu 10/25/2012 17:10:39.21: "Create and Label Drive R"
Thu 10/25/2012 17:17:50.81: "Change Install Paramater"
Thu 10/25/2012 17:17:57.45: "Rebooting computer"

WOW! Talk about your ultimate nerd-out!

1- You lied above about slipstreaming. I still install Windows XP fairly frequently, and even when I use an SP2 disc I never see anything like 231 updates needed. (I DO see well over 100 even when using SP3, which is pretty appauling in itself).

2- Posting a log file of times is pointless without stating what hardware it is running on. That logs shows it taking 1h 42m to install Office 2003 SP2. I'd be surprised if even a Pentium III took that long! And reboot time jumped to 21 minutes after installing the software. I auto-install most of that software on most new machines I set up, and I don't see a noticable increase in boot time after doing so. Something seems awfully wrong with these numbers.

FYI

You do not need Antivirrus on Linux. The system I use does not have antivirrus. The only reason you have antivirrus on Linux is when you are sharing a network wint Windows computer. Not to protect them self from virrus, but to clean up the mess of windows compter.

Why Linux kernel is best, because you can not hack it from a pc using windows os. If you manage to do that, the method you use is bootable. But guy, did you know that almost all hackers are using linux?

Ubuntu Desktop Edition
700 MHz processor (about Intel Celeron or better)
512 MiB RAM (system memory)
5 GB of hard-drive space
VGA capable of 1024x768 screen resolution
Either a CD/DVD drive or a USB port for the installer media
Internet access is helpful

Windows-8 system requirements 64-bit (x64)
CPU with 1 GHz
20 GByte Hard disk space
2 GByte RAM
DirectX-9 graphics Card

Windows-8 system requirements 32-bit (x86/x32)
CPU with 1 GHz
16 GByte Hard disk space
1 GByte RAM
DirectX-9 graphics Card

And back in the land of reality:
"Freshly installed 12.10 is pretty sluggy on my 2.2G dual core. I like using unity, but get irritated with its lack of responsiveness"

That's taken from a post below, and it doesn't seem to be an isolated experience. Everything I've read suggests 12.10 requires a beefy machines.

As you can see I'm not so quick as you think. I take my time to investigate before I post.

Bye the way, many It and analyst are not optimist about windows8.
1They fear that it will fails the same way that Windows Vista did.
2 Due financial and economic problem companies will not migrate to windows 8.

This is the point that Jack was talk about: not everybody will accept it and or try to migrate to this system

"As you can see I'm not so quick as you think. I take my time to investigate before I post."

Then you should understand how much time is involved in a switch from Outlook to Thunderbird, and recognise that there's a very real cost in doing so.

"Bye the way, many It and analyst are not optimist about windows8.
1They fear that it will fails the same way that Windows Vista did.
2 Due financial and economic problem companies will not migrate to windows 8."

I'm not an analyst, but I agree. I see no reason for any of my clients to upgrade to Windows 8. Heck, many of them are just finishing the move to Windows 7. It takes time to do testing and get images set up. I'm not keen to do that again for a new OS. Most or maybe all of my clients will skip this version. (The cost of change, and need for cost/benefit analysis apply just as much to Windows upgrades as they do to Linux).

"This is the point that Jack was talk about: not everybody will accept it and or try to migrate to this system "

No it's not. There was one sentence in the introduction along those lines, but the whole article was about Ubuntu's new features, not about how Windows 8 will be accepted.

In the past when trying out the past versions of Ubuntu the initial experience was impressive. However ended up removing it after failing to make the Ubuntu PC coexist with Win Pc's on the home network. File sharing and printing on a network printer can be a challenge. Anyone try installing a scanner on an Ubuntu PC? May try Ubuntu one more time and see if the integration experience is any better.

Every single point you've listed is available in Windows 8. Specific functionality introduced in "Dash" might not be available in a similar Windows 8 "Dash" application, however it's not impossible to do. You mentioned search and play music, cloud storage, performance, web search from the OS, similar experience on PC and Tablet? How blind are you, of course Windows 8 has this, and in fact, it's all pretty simple to use if you spend more than 5minutes on the OS.

Your blog is biased and not relevant!

Or should I say the UI formerly known as Metro. Dash is just the Mac dock, less the pretty. I downloaded 12.10 (12.1?) just to see what JackWallen was talking about. It works. It worked on my HP tablet. You can install it on a USB and run it on most anything. But it's still Linux... 'nuff said? So off we go:

1. Amazon. Who cares? It's not the center of the universe. It's not even the website at the end of the universe.
2. Dash Preview. Useful, a bit gimmicky. I personally make my filenames descriptive but a lot of folks do not.
3. Interface efficiency. I guess a Mac user from 1995 will feel at home using 12.10. The menu doesn't travel with the window it stays on top. The Dash kinda hides which file's currently open.
4. Remote login. Logging in and then calling up RDP isn't a time consuming job. But maybe for a Linux user remotely accessing a more useful Windows PC to do real work, it's a godsend.
5. Google. Really? The company says "don't be evil" which coincidentally is the motto stitched on the welcome mat at the League of Evil's Citadel of Doom. Google tracking built into my IU is not a welcomed feature.
6. Installation. I installed a small app from Ubuntu but then I couldn't find it. It was an cosmetic app. I couldn't tell if I installed it or just merely downloaded it. So... I'll figure it out later.
7. IU slow evolution. Let's call it that. It's the way Apple keeps its aging demographic (kids who act like they're 80). If they had pulled a Win8 change their users would've called it groundbreaking and got in a long line to buy it. But this is MS so it's cooler to trash it.
8. Same interface. Is this point 8 or 7.5? Do I need my tablet interface to match my server's? Meh. Switching back and forth isn't a bother for me as much as it is for my grandfather. (Who's not allowed to touch my server. Grandpa, no! NO!)
9. Performance. I only did medium level stuff but it did run that quickly/smoothly. I was running off a flashdrive and the only slow part was the boot-up. Will it ever run a 3D modeler super fast? I don't know - does it run modeling software?
10. Share links. Uh, SkyDrive? Is that what we're talking about here? I think iCloud can do it too. Either way I don't use the cloud for personal/confidential use. I imagine a future where one could store their medical info there and call it up when needed. I can also imagine the League of Evil accessing my med data, too. Maybe a prospective employer or the government even.

Like I've always said: Linux is good for specific applications. A drone control app. An in-car computer system. A way for R2D2 to talk to elevators on the most powerful space station in the universe, maybe. But as an everyday desktop for the masses. IDK. Neither does anyone else because it never gets advertised on TV or radio or at stores. There's no Google Chromebook for Ubuntu that Samsung can market to the peoples. So...

Don't get me wrong. I like Ubuntu. I have a Mac at home and run Ubuntu on some of my home machines as well. My wife's machine is Windows 7. Without MS Office you don't have a mainstream PC. I used Libre/Open Office for years but if you do anything in a business setting or get any kind of documents from other that are even mildly complicated, Libre Office does not cut it. The other issue I have is in the race to compete with Windows Ubuntu has become big and slower. I used to be able to save old PCs and run the latest Ubuntu on them and they worked great. Now have I have to old versions because the latest and greatest versions require a pretty well equiped PC. I thought that recycling old PCs was one of the areas where Ubuntu should make inroads to get people to try it out and be converted. I am still pulling for Linux....

That last part seems like an opportunity. Imagine how many people simply toss their old machines because newer Windows isn't supported on them. If they can be cleaned up and fitted for Linux there's a chance one can get extended use out of these. Maybe in poorer nations where allegiance to Windows is not an issue. LibreOffice can run their businesses.

That's about it. The rest are not selling points for me. As most everyone mentioned, putting Amazon as number one pretty much shot down the rest of the article, and Google integration definitely made me think twice that I don't want to come anywhere NEAR this thing! Long live Xubuntu 11.04 and XP

The inferiority syndrome from Linux users is so sad.....
It's really an amazing platform, for servers, devices and specific purposes pcs.