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Windows 8: Four big takeaways for business and IT

No it isn't, it's just tucked away and hidden better. Now we will refer to "file" and "folder" as Microsoft wishes us to, such as "tile". No, I don't care for Macs and I use Windows PCs, but this is a misconception....

So much is true. But is this any good? What is the reason for this? I personally cannot answer the first question and have no response for the second one. One thing is sure: the first look and feel of Windows 8 is quite different, without any obvious benefits or advantages to justify this difference.

Microsoft has just Taken their OS and stripped out all the good things just to make it work on Phones, Tablets and PC. At this rate I'll never move to windows 8. Hope MS changes it direction with 9 As for it being more security... Ha, I've heard that before, and they still hape problems.

Many companies have Office licenses for their employees ... but per the faq, until your company has licensed Office 2013, you're not covered for business use of Office RT.

Not that anyone will pay attention, and MS will no doubt wink at it.

Should also be clear that macros, add-ins, InfoPath forms, and 3rd party apps built on Office won't work with the RT version.

moment you buy the device with the software preloaded you can legally use it whatever way you like. They would NOT win a case in court if a business didn't buy a commercial licence for Office 2013 - anyway, MS maintain the version of Office on the RT is NOT the full one, so why would you want it for business.

I think it's time to see if you will stick to windows or check if a linux flavour is more your style. I'll guess we'll see a revival of terminal servers/citrix and other emulators to keep old apps (you know: prrrrogrammmms) running.

I have to wonder if anything will be done. The following was noted in the post:

http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-352310

... where I witnessed very interesting conversation. The topic was Windows 8 application design for developers. Lecturer described grid, fonts, margins etc into great detail, and then she went on to menus, navigation, and so on. During this, she was interrupted by somehow irritated question from the public:

"Hey, what about data entry?"

Answer: "Windows 8 apps are not meant for data entry. They are meant to be used anytime, anywhere, in any situation, for information consumption, not production. You know, browsing shopping catalogues, news, and such."

Question: "But what about business applications?"

Answer: "They belong to desktop, not to Windows 8 app store. Business apps deal with tens of thousands of items or more. There is now way Windows 8 app UI could handle this. As a matter of fact, I can't even imagine things like Photoshop running under Win 8."

Q: "B-b-b-but grumble grumble!?"

A: "Consider this. What would you prefer do develop
- a business application only a couple of companies are interested in
- an application for App Store with at least half a billion of potential customers?"

..................

That makes it clear MS see Win 8 as a purely retail consumer use product only, not an enterprise capable one.

I wonder if we'll now see two variants - odd numbers of Windows releases for consumer users and even numbers for enterprise users - - that would make a lot more sense and tie in better with the corporate roll over to a new OS pattern.

The main bugbear for me is that in Metro interface, Windows 8 'has no windows'.

It's a pretty fundamental point.

Straight Windows 8 has both the new touch interface and the familiar Windows 7 desktop. Only if you buy the RT only version will you lose the old interface.

So the learning curve is not steep to run Windows 7 apps, yes you have a different looking start menu, but after you are in the desktop it's the same.

For RT and the metro/modern interface, yes there is something to learn, but that is only to swipe in from the edges. The right side for system stuff, the top or bottom for app functions and the left to go back. Sorry, that wasn't that steep either.

Let's face it though the new interface will not be much use to business in the short term so few should be buying RT only tablets right now. It won't replace your desktop and you'll be frustrated by the lack of full functionality - even in the web browser. Fortunately in full Windows 8 all the functionality you know and love is still there.

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Use the "Metro" UI for tablets, phones, etc but keep the old windowing system as per Windows 7 INCLUDING THE START BUTTON & MENUS, PLEASE as is on Windows 7 for enterprise and legacy's sake - Simples!
It would be easy to implement as underneath, the system is NT 6.
Trouble is, the goons at Microsoft cannot see this simple solution.

What you may not understand yet is that the Metro interface IS the start menu. They took what was formerly BURIED beneath the start menu and lifted it to be your primary interface. Thats why when you swipe the right side of the screen and press the START icon it takes you to the Metro interface.

If you want quick access to the administrative functions that used to be available on the start menu, you need not look any further than pressing the WINDOWS+X key combination.

But I couldn't reach the monitor.

And why should I be happy that what used to be available at the touch of the Win key now requires that I press the X key in addition? How is moving from one keystroke to two keystrokes "easier"?

Not everybody has a mobile device. Not everybody wants a mobile device. And nobody who works in a text- or data-based environment (and there are many-many of us) is going to try to do actual work on a mobile device...more than once.

nt

to get to the start button, left click in the lower left corner where the start button used to be.
to get to administrator functions, hover on the start screen thumbnail (where the start button used to be) in the lower left corner where the start menu used to be and right click it.

No extra keys required. No swipe required.

Desktop mode in Windows 8 is the old Windowing system. Only the start menu is bigger, what's the big deal?

and it provides NO benefit over the current Win 7 start except on a small touch screen device.

That's a different problem. If you don't like the colour you can change it, and the pattern. The desktop does have some advantages over Win7, the whole thing is smaller and quicker to install and it starts a lot faster than Win 7 too. There are many small improvements like the copy files dialog, better parental controls, etc. For me it's worth the price of an upgrade even if I never used the Modern UI stuff.

of a finger nail without blowing out the resolution to something ridiculous - not even the local Microsoft support people can answer that one and have it open that way each time.

My client has given up and had the trial copy removed from his system. I'm glad I use Zorin OS Linux at home, so I don't have to put up with Win 8, and I get faster operation with better features.

I put Zorin on a VM (VirtualBox) and encountered a lot of bugs right off the start.
Things like, only the default "Theme" works, switch to any other and odd boxes and stuff appear.
The site shows more options for the desktop switcher, but you only get XP and Windows 7.

I locked it up repeatedly trying to install the VB6 runtimes into Wine.

Also other strange stuff like taskbar items not showing up, and I couldn't find the taskill program so I couldn't figure out how to kill a non responsive program (wine program).


I only suspect the VM software cause when I tried the latest Mint, it wouldn't even show my mouse on screen, I had to use keyboard shortcuts.

my son has used it in his system without any issues, but neither has run it in a VM, only as a Live CD or an install. He has an i7 system and I've used a number of i5 and P4 systems.

Depending on what you're running it on, it could be the VM or the base software - Linux uses Industry Standard command sets, while Windows does not, so not sure how well the VM software will handle that type of low level hardware hand off as I don't use VMs too often.

Neither Zorin nor Mint will run well in VirtualBox. Even with 2GB RAM assigned, they're slow. I get a faster response from my old P2, and it's running WinXP with only 256MB.

Press Win+I (or go to Settings) and click Tiles, turn 'Show more Tiles' on. Of course you can zoom out on the start screen at any time, it's as easy as holding Ctrl and moving you mouse wheel.
More Windows 8 tips here:
http://www.hanselman.com/blog/Windows8ProductivityWhoMovedMyCheeseOhThereItIs.aspx

hasn't happened on any of the trial systems, you need about forty or so tiles before they shrink much

Lets See what better things it has got along with that!!!

Thank you. That's all I've been saying.

nt

situation, as that's the only reason I can think of why they down voted me for saying you don't want a steep learning curve in a business environment. I just hope that person doesn't run a business using other people's money as they would cost them a fortune.

my 5 yr old works in Windows 8 all the time and loves it. After I removed the RP, he was upset because he likes it better. Is there a learning curve? Yes. Is it steep? No. I think that as tech support people, we sometimes get irritated with users and over time think of them as stupid.

If you have a 60yr old who can barely turn on the computer, then, yes, they will probably have a hard time with it. However, 60-70% at least will complain but then will be using the program in no time at all.

Some of these people, I am supprised they wake up in the morning and remember how to breath.
http://trevorsarchives.homenet.org/temp/Y94PlayhouseDeerCrossingSigns122.mp3

so why are you surprised?

doesn't have 20 years of ingrained Windows habits, practices, and baggage. It's oeasier to learn from scratch than to unlearn previous behaviors.

Proposals, Tenders or Networks does your 5 year Old set up?

Pushing buttons/tiles isn't using the OS it's Playing with it.

Col

The learning curve at work was greater when going from no computer to one computer than Windows 7 to Windows 8.
just saying

How about "Windows Consumer" and "Windows for Business." By using those names, it delineates the products as well as highlighting the fact that the iPad is trying to have it both ways.

...Are already taken. W. C. Fields and Warner Brothers. Yes, this is a comedy cartoon (minus the cartoon graphics) in the making.

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meets the needs of one, so they should have two products with two names - like they used to with Windows Home and Windows Pro

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Is everyone forgetting that the majority of businesses do not adopt a new OS very quickly. The metro OS UI is for phones and tablets. I might be old school, but for a desk top I don't want to touch my screen. I don't really want to clean my monitor every day! I am not sure I like it on tablets that much, but at least they are smaller, portable and thus easier to clean (less time). Least we forget; time is money! Especially in the business world. Surface will only take off in businesses when the Pro version is released, people need to log into the domain. Phones and tablets with RT will be used to surf the web, take notes, communicate (voice, vidieo, and e-mail/messaging) and thus don't need to be on the domain. Unfortunately, businesses will most likely take this opportunity to promote BYOD more and thus the employee will have more out of pocket expenses to do the job! I digress, as some of that is not Windows 8 related, but will be influenced by it.

Does anyone know about any changes to CMD? I mean this is just a painful experience when working with windows.

If the changes bother you, maybe command.com still exists, try running that.

Please - the start button and menu have been replaced by a start screen, and you'll have to use the Windows key, other than that its the about the same.
I've been running it since RTM on a normal laptop and have nothing but good things to say about it.
Server 2012 and Windows 8 go hand in hand, and will drive adoption in business much like Windows 7 and Server 2008.
Don't be misled by FUD...

...so please tell me there is no learning curve! I'm not using this dog.

Very good content marred by some glaring proofing errors. It looks like someone was very distracted when writing and no proofing was done.

I agreed, this is the biggest change ever, you may not noticed it right away, but wait all manufactures must create new hardware for pc's and all will have the touch screen feature. it is the new future.

Ever go into a fast food place? Did you happen to notice the kind of screen they use? Just go into HP, or Dell or any of the others and look at their POS units.
Not new, they just get to make and sell more now.

Working with arms raised and extended for long periods of time is probably not going to be good for your back.

Not to mention that adding touch screen technology will pretty much double the price of your monitor.

I've not seen an 26 inch touch screens being advertised for sale.

a touch screen is not required.
The mouse works fine in Windows 8. That's all I have on my desktop.

But the author of the post I responded to apparently doesn't...

Windows 8 does not require a touch screen
or
Keep calm and use your mouse

If common sense was common, we wouldn't need a name for it.

Who moved my cheese?

Swipe THIS!

I am tired of reading about how people miss the start menu. Everybody just calm down and embrace the future. THE METRO INTERFACE IS THE NEW START MENU!!

They took what was formerly BURIED beneath the start menu and lifted it to be your primary interface. Thats why when you swipe the right side of the screen and press the START icon it takes you to the Metro interface.

If you want quick access to the administrative functions that used to be available on the start menu, you need not look any further than pressing the WINDOWS+X key combination. Also the WINDOWS+Q key combination is also very useful.

Metro isn't it's name any more, that was dropped when M$ got a message that the metro in Europe was not very pleased to be associated with the new Start menu on Windows 8.

As yet it's not been renamed but it's defiantly not called Metro any more by Microsoft.

Col

How are we going to google/bing it without getting it mushed up with everything else?

Will Win8 RT have MSTSC? If I can remote to my work or home PCs and process there, I don't need a full powered tablet. I couldn't get a good answer from Microsoft on whether Terminal Services is available before the Pro version of the Surface comes out. If it can do what the iPad does, and allow me to remote to desktops when I need to really work, I'll be fine.

connect to a network or a domain, so no remote from the RT at all.

I'm not tryin to connect to a network, or join a domain. I'm trying to remote to another desktop through Terimal Services. The other desktop can handle all the networking. MSTSC just acts as a dumb terminal, like PC Anywhwere.

I was pleasantly surprised at how easily Remote Desktop worked. It connected to my Windows Home Server much easier and much much much quicker than even my Windows 7 Pro laptop and it was light years faster than my XP box.
Performance (keyboard, mouse, video) on the remote server was excellent.
It goes without saying that remoting from my Win 8 desktop to my Win 8 (eval copy) tablet was very easy.
I think it will work.

only Win 8 Pro and Enterprise has the host capability. Thus, based on that you can remote your tablet from a Pro or Enterprise system. So you should have remote service TO the Surface RT, but not from it.

I expect that's so they can remote check your system when they want to.

I admire their vigor. But this will be a vista sized disaster.
Google/Linux will benefit from it though. They can't give Windows 8 away.

I'm sorry. Call me old fashioned, call me just plain old - but if you do you also have to call me correct. I just don't get how it is so OK these days to present yourself as a reliable, educated person writing a blog and have so many errors in grammar and spelling in your articles. I don't expect perfection. That isn't even an attainable goal. However, one would not be asking too much to be able to read an article and not have to stop every couple sentences to figure out what the writer was really trying to say. Take the opening sentence of this article for instance.
"Youre going to hear a lot about the hits and misses of Windows 8 over the next couple weeks. Youll read wildly divergent reviews of Windows 8s flagship device, the Microsoft Surface. But, if you are a business decision maker or an IT professional and you are trying to sort out what". Trying to sort out what? How does one sort out what when one doesn't have a clue what "what" is?
Or how about this confusing statement? "There are important differences between Windows 8 and Windows RT. Microsoft has not done a very good job of communicating how those differences, especially in relation to the Microsoft Surface tablets." Really? This sentence is supposed to end here in this fashion? I don't think so.
Yes, I get the gist, or most of it. But are you really being fair to your readers?
Come on! I know you can write better than this. I've seen it.
How about some integrity, some passion, some "give a damn"?
Thanks for listening. And feel free to pick apart my message if you like.
Have a great weekend!

The title of your article indicates that you are talking about Windows 8.

If that's the case, "the old file and folder metaphor is" certainly not gone. It's on the desktop.

"The visual image of a desktop workspace" is certainly not history. Again, the desktop still exists.

Lastly, "Windows 8 is" not "designed for touch screens". It is designed to support a touchscreen, keyboard, mouse, stylus, track pad, touch pad, touch mouse, trackball, and mouse pointer to name a few input devices.

If you meant to address Windows RT, which is geared mostly for the home user, then I stand corrected.

If you don't agree with me that Windows RT is geared for the home user, then why does it include Microsoft Office Home and Student version?

I do consultancy and support for design teams (web/2d/3d/print/animation/video) They uses a variety of applications and file types. Not only do these guys use applications that need to be able to open and edit multiple file types, more often than not, they use different applications on the same files at different stages of their workflow . Everything I've seen so far with Windows 8 just stops their workflow stone dead. How do 'tiles' help these guys in any way whatsoever?

I recently cloned a typical 3D animator's machine (Office 2010 Pro/Adobe CS6 Master Suite/ Autodesk 3DS Max/Maya and sundry apps, plugins and support files) to see if Window 8 would be any use. Even after uninstalling all of the Windows 8 consumer junk, his 'apps' window still needed to be scrolled 14 times to see all his relevant apps. Of course many of the 'apps' were help files. tutorials texts & videos along with quite a few dedicated support utilities but all that was lumped into a flat 14 page horizontal scroller (on a 4K!! screen). What an incredible waste of screen estate In Windows 7, especially when all of that was neatly represented in 4 inches of screen and all of it was available with only 2-3 clicks of the mouse. Not only that, with a nested folder structure, it was easy to spot links between applications and support files. The flat file system just creates a wash that's much harder to distinguish the relevant from the not. If you attempt to simplify the app menu to only include apps then where do you put the relevant support files and how do you link them back to the original application and how do you link apps and support files that are needed for workflow?

There's a huge difference between pottering about with a few free apps with the Win 8 preview version and trying to run your real apps in a real work situation.
Windows 8 is shockingly bad for anything other than doing a bit of web browsing, checking the weather and tapping out the odd email / office doc. If you want Windows 8 to do any more than deal with a handful of apps look elsewhere! It just doesn't scale for serious work.

Still, at least I've got a massive amount of training ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H un-learning work out of it if nothing else.

Perhaps I've missed a trick or two... Please let me know...

Jason, did you even bother to proofread this piece of crap before you published it? Some of the syntax and grammar is so bad, I can't even begin to understand what you're trying to say, never mind the point you're trying to get across. Technical writers such as yourself write about a world full of details and those details often matter a great deal when it comes to communicating technical ideas. Your ability to get your ideas across is demonstrated very poorly in this article. I'm no longer able to take you as credible source of information and I'll no longer read your articles until you can prove you have more intelligence than a fifth grader. Your writing is bad, and you should feel bad.

I don't understand all this lamentations about Win RT. Of course it's not designed for business use although somebody could be tempted to save some bucks. The difference is the same as between the home and pro versions of XP plus the savings from the hardware. So it's easy to understand.

OS meant only for phones and tablets, not an enterprise PC at all - well, that's what the MS developer trainers are telling the app developers.

If it works in Windows 7, it works in Windows 8. At least I have not found an application that didn't work in 8 yet.
The Start/Metro style/App screen is for lightweight apps.
The desktop is for everything else that everyone is very familiar with.
I have been using Windows 8 every day since the first release and I just upgraded my home Windows 7 computer to Windows 8 Pro with out a hitch.
All of my settings stayed the same. The only thing I had to do was get a new driver for my Bluetooth hardware. It was a breeze.
No, I am not using a touch screen. You don't have to. The mouse works just as well.
Click in the lower left corner of the screen where the start button used to be and you get the start screen.
The mouse wheel acts as the swipe gesture quite nicely.
Both of my Win 8 computers are operating significantly faster. The desktop is ready in 20 seconds from cold boot. I am very impressed with Windows 8.
Is it ready for business use? That depends. Are you willing to spend 15 minutes showing someone how to navigate? Then yes, it is ready for business.

Does anyone read these articles before they are placed on the web?? Misspellings, extra words, etc. C'mon Man! No one's in a hurry to read it so you shouldn't be in a hurry to get it on the web page. Let's look like professionals here.

Apple's UI has never been that great (single menu bar; one button mouse); Ubuntu seems to have been fooled into the "one interface for all devices" madness with 'Unity' ... and now Windows seems to be following suit.

A desktop is not a touch-screen device, and never will be.

The craziness of suppliers dictating to their customers - that they know best - is just that, crazy.

One only has to look for products that revert Office 2013 to it's pre-ribbon UI; or the growth of alternative UIs on Linux to carry on Gnome 2 functionality, to see that this isn't what the market wants. Sometimes change *isn't* good, and this is one such occasion. 10 years ago you could go to any Desktop UI (Apple, MS, Linux) and be roughly familiar with them. Nowadays, that's not the case, and it's a bizarre trend, given that the most used application within that UI (web-browsers) have almost merged ... IE, Chrome, Firefox, Safari, all offering a UI and functionality that is roughly the same.

This is MS's 'Vista' all over again. An idea out of the think-tank that hasn't been considered from the correct perspective. If they go this way, then this is the game to Google. 10 years from now, Android & iOS will share the handheld market; servers will continue to be dominated by Linux; and the desktops will belong to ChromeOS.

No business will go for Windows 8, and even the OEM market will be seeing a clamour for "old machines". MS #epic #fail. Again.

They always said that moving to Linux was a stupid idea because of the learning curve.
Now Microsoft has created the same problem.

My family has been experimenting with Win 8 for a few months now.
The young kids find it relatively easy to pick up on a laptop.
One likes it a lot (Its the latest and his friends do not have it)
The other is ok either way.

The wife thinks its stupid just as learning Linux was.
I found it to be Frustrating at first but can get around it fine now .
I still find Linux to be better than Win 8 but was happy to use Win 7.
That is definitely Microsoft,s best OS to date.
I especially like Bitlocker on the laptops.

Touch, WIMP or text, it's all there in Windows 8, just use the one you like the most. Sure if you like a text interface only then you might as well use Linux because it's free, but why are people complaining about an interface they don't have to use? (the start menu/screen is not an interface and you'd have to be pretty thick not to understand it. If you don't like change then nobody is stopping you from sticking with what you have, so why all the moaning?)

nt

nt

nt

nt

start button while I use the other hand to snack with. While what you say Win 8 needs is two keys and a click - that a lot more than a single click.

To get to the desktop, you can click the desktop tile or you can click the enter key, or you can click the windows key.
(The first two work provided the desktop tile is the top left tile)

In my limited experience (running Win 8 in Virtualbox), simply striking the Windows key toggles back and forth between the classic desktop and the Metro interface. To get the search up, you have to press and hold the Win key. While this is not significantly different from Win 7, it's different enough that it took me a few minutes to figure it out.

It could, of course, be related to the virtual environment. But while I've experienced slow processing in the Linux VMs I'm running, I've not noticed this type of delay in response to a keyboard or mouse input.

It seems that a lot of you really like the Emperor's new clothes. But then again you probably liked Vista a whole lot too. Personally, I don't see anything there.

Microsoft is a company that has a great technical staff and terrible marketing vision. They want to cash in on the app store concept because they can see the money that Apple is making, but people will never accept that type of attempted lock-in from Microsoft like they do with Apple.

Windows 8 is great under the hood, but the user interface is going to be terrible for 100s of millions of people to use.

Microsoft might be a 'me too' in this case, but it is Apple who is making huge profits by convincing people to pay well over the odds for not much at all.

www.infopackets.com/news/business/microsoft/2012/20121105_microsoft_sued_over_windows_8_user_interface.htm

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If the only thing I'm doing with the Metro desktop is using it to start conventional, non-Metro programs, is there any reason to NOT bypass it at startup? Maybe it does other things I'm not yet aware of, or maybe I'm aware of all it does and nothing besides starting programs appeals to me. The more I play with W8, the more Metro feels like a nuisance.

I have been using Windows 8 for a month now and it is great for home use; however, because of the way the UI is rendered, some of the tools I used to use to create presentations and tutorials no longer work even in compatability modes (e.g. fraps). I am finding more and more "querks" with the system as a software developer, so now I use my laptop with windows 7 for developement and my Windows 8 machine to run my test and dev servers (mysql, db2, apache, tomcat, etc.). It still works great for that so far. If I were a business owner, I would hold off at least until the end of the Windows 7 support life before making the switch.