Discussion on:
View:
Show:
and I always believe in equal time. If you pick on someone for speaking up on one side of the issue, then you should pick on those on the other side as well, or admit you're biased.
Not every article at TR is going to appeal to everyone.
"With all of that said, I wish to make this statement:
For anyone who tries Windows 8 and finds it clunky and inefficient, give Ubuntu 12.10 a try and find out how a desktop platform should really look and behave."
OK, you've told us now, can we assume you/re not going to repeat yourself ad-infinitum? Telling people the same thing over and over is just insulting.
For anyone who tries Windows 8 and finds it clunky and inefficient, give Ubuntu 12.10 a try and find out how a desktop platform should really look and behave."
OK, you've told us now, can we assume you/re not going to repeat yourself ad-infinitum? Telling people the same thing over and over is just insulting.
and sometimes they need beaten over the head with it.
Windows sucks. Plain and simple. Once the CIOs and CTOs get it through their thick heads, we can move to a better system (yes, Linux just in ase you weren't sure where I was going) that provides better control and more features. AND you can even add some of those features yourself!
Windows sucks. Plain and simple. Once the CIOs and CTOs get it through their thick heads, we can move to a better system (yes, Linux just in ase you weren't sure where I was going) that provides better control and more features. AND you can even add some of those features yourself!
that there are many business applications that don't exist for the Linus platform.
the Microsoft world and stay there. I know many who now regret purchasing software like that as their expensive core software for Win XP doesn't work on any other version of Windows at all, not even Win 7 in XP mode. At the moment they work hard at keeping XP up and running in their corporation and NO ONE has Internet access beyond emails that go through a very locked down gateway, just so they can be better convinced of security and safety from virus attack. Interestingly, few have said anything about the lack of Internet since it was shut down, as most don't use it for work, and the few who do are on a separate network and no access to the core software.
I'm talking about new applications or versions that aren't available for other platforms.
who make them are locked into working with and for only Microsoft Windows. They chose to be vendor lock in to Microsoft, and some chose to be vendor lock-in to Apple. If they went according to the industry standards they'd work on Unix, Linux, most Apple, some older Windows systems, and would only need a few drivers to work with specific newer Windows systems.
Is it so hard to understand that other people have different likes and dislikes, different requirements, different preferences in how they do things?
All you do by repeating this "...." over and over is annoy people. If that's your goal, fine, say that.
All you do by repeating this "...." over and over is annoy people. If that's your goal, fine, say that.
Jack, when the rest of us lowly members post the same thing in response to articles
it is deemed spamming. In that regard, your articles extolling the virtues of Ubuntu
border on spam.
To follow your logic, a user would trade any perceived problems adjusting to
Windows 8 from say XP or 7 by jumping to Ubuntu with Unity...I don't know, but
if a user is having difficulty learning Windows 8 interface, the transition to Ubuntu
Unity would not be any easier. I prefer the KDE 3.5 UI in Slax, but I don't recommend
it for most of my friends or family, it's enough to get them to learn how to get their
programs going in Windows!
it is deemed spamming. In that regard, your articles extolling the virtues of Ubuntu
border on spam.
To follow your logic, a user would trade any perceived problems adjusting to
Windows 8 from say XP or 7 by jumping to Ubuntu with Unity...I don't know, but
if a user is having difficulty learning Windows 8 interface, the transition to Ubuntu
Unity would not be any easier. I prefer the KDE 3.5 UI in Slax, but I don't recommend
it for most of my friends or family, it's enough to get them to learn how to get their
programs going in Windows!
he's still well behind by heaps. But yes, I'm about as sick of this as I am of all the BS blogs and articles on the wonders of Win 8
I'm a Linux user.
All our machines run Linux except for one last Mac.
I could not in all honesty recommend Ubuntu 12.10 to a 'switcher'.
The shock of Canonical Ubuntu Unity interface is just as bad as the idiotic Metro interface from Micro$oft.
Now Linux Mint Mate.. now there is a very polished easy to use highly functional 'out of the box' distro I could recommend to anybody.
Chris
All our machines run Linux except for one last Mac.
I could not in all honesty recommend Ubuntu 12.10 to a 'switcher'.
The shock of Canonical Ubuntu Unity interface is just as bad as the idiotic Metro interface from Micro$oft.
Now Linux Mint Mate.. now there is a very polished easy to use highly functional 'out of the box' distro I could recommend to anybody.
Chris
W8 is OK, if you eliminate Metro by installing something like Classic Shell.
IMO, Linux Mint Mate is the best current Linux GUI.
If I hadn't gone through the pain of customising Ubuntu 10 to my liking, I'd install Linux Mint (Mate) on my HDD.
That said, I mostly use W7 (I use Ubuntu for one or two specific purposes).
IMO, Linux Mint Mate is the best current Linux GUI.
If I hadn't gone through the pain of customising Ubuntu 10 to my liking, I'd install Linux Mint (Mate) on my HDD.
That said, I mostly use W7 (I use Ubuntu for one or two specific purposes).
I also use Ubuntu since at least 5 years. I even converted my wife from windows to Ubuntu. She is now running Ubuntu on her netbook since a couple of years. But to be honest, switching to unity interface was an awful shock to her. I also had some bumps on the road while getting used to unity (it packs a lot of cool and highly usable features, but still feeling so unnatural in some situations). Then, after buying a new laptop and installing 12.04 I began to have too much instability in Ubuntu. System errors came up regularly out of the blue, so I tweaked, and even I re-installed it. Now it feels more stable, but I began to test other distros using VirtualBox. And Linux Mint (my preference is Cinnamon) was a refreshing and fantastic experience. Everything just works. On the same VirtualBox configuration Linux Mint boots faster and runs stable while a fresh install of Ubuntu 12.04 is slower and sometimes has issues. So I'm on the brink of leaving Ubuntu for Mint.
I never tried Windows 8, but I'll give a shot, since the geek inside me is curious.
I never tried Windows 8, but I'll give a shot, since the geek inside me is curious.
I had similar experiences. While Cinnamon is OK, I think MATE 1.4 is a better substitute for Gnome 2. XFCE is also OK. And if you don't mind loading a couple of other distros into VB, try ZorinOS.and SolusOS. ZorinOS is quite neat in you can select a Gnome 2-like desktop OR a Win. XP or Win 7 desktop. The XP and 7 DEs are still Linux, it just provides the "look and feel"- sortr of.
Install Ubuntu, but also install the Xubuntu desktop, setup XFCE to look like Windows, and make that the user's default desktop at the login screen. Then show them how to login to Unity instead, and show them that they can freely change back and forth, without any risk to their files, settings, etc. Then they can adapt to Unity (or not) at their own pace.
From a dual user of both Windows beats linux hands down for ease of use.
NOTHING beats it for people to learn about basic computer usage.
I have tried and used many linux distros. PCLOS is my favorite and is the easiest of the distros I found to use. Puppy linux is fast and fairly easy to use.
Linux Mint is rather good but it is difficult to do many things, from a pint and click computer user. And that is precisely what people want - point and click automation with an easy to understand and configure GUI.
Before Microsoft bought out Xandros, that was a really decent distro.
Ubuntu in any of it's natural forms is disgustingly awful in both appearance and function.
ANY distro that you have a hard tie finding your hard drive and accessing it is worthless.
When I want to get to one of my drive partitions in say ubuntu, I CANNOT do it. There is nothing to click on to get there. Mint isn't much better.
The reason I use windows (win7 currently) is that all linux distros do not support my mobile usb internet dongle.
More on Mint and others - there is no true drag and drop like windows has. I want to drag a url from the browser address line to the desktop and it does not work. In windows it does.
No one in their right mind wants to have to screw with an OS just to get it to do what they want.
It also seems that linux developers want linux to appear like aero and newer win OS's but for some reason they lack the desire to make it feel like windows with a very few exceptions. PCLOS was about the best windows 'feel' and appearance.
I like linux because of the lack of hassles and problems associated with malware.
I like windows because they spent many millions on developing the gui for visual appeal and ease of use.
Compare gimp to paint shop pro (7,8, or 9). Which looks better and is easier to use?
My wife wants her paint shop pro and hates the way gimp looks ad functions.
Gimp has the appearance and function of an old corporate environment.
Take some of the geekiness out of linux and make it both feel and work like windows and you can be sure that more people will switch.
Note: few if any distros come with dvdcss or similar. Few if any come with WINE and the WINE versions out there are so horribly difficult to use that it isn't worth using.
I am not bashing anything, just rendering my observations of both, from a home computer user standpoint.
I, like most people, do not want to ave a complicated way of doing anything, especially anything related to command line.
I did notice that there isn't any mention of dual booting with uefi. And wubi.exe is pointless. You still are using windows. Just run vmware and you get less problems.
If windows detects ANY other bootable partition or ANY linux file systems, including linux swap file, windows wants to be repaired immediately. This usually means running bcdedit or easy bcd if you are able to or the windows repair disk.
I even had to reformat and reinstall win7 on at least 2 occasions due to grub screwing everything up.
A work around was to unplug my win7 HD, get an ssd drive with a usb 3.0 external enclosure, install mint 13.
When I want to use linux I plug in the external drive then turn on the computer. I immediately select that drive to boot from.
Neither 'knows' about the other. When finished, I restart and remove the usb drive and allow win7 to boot. Most times I do not get the repair screen. But when I do I just select boot normally and it works.
So, tell me how linux is better than windows when you have to go to great lengths to even use it?
Linux could make their own uefi and replace the windows uefi, incorporating the linux file systems and other boot options.
Linux could even clone the security key for windows and trick windows that way too.
Also, you can boot live versions without a problem. And puppy from a flash drive without a problem either.
Just no traditional dual booting allowed.
Lastly, none of this will matter soon as we all will be forced to use cloud computing. This make the *nix vs windows a mute point.
NOTHING beats it for people to learn about basic computer usage.
I have tried and used many linux distros. PCLOS is my favorite and is the easiest of the distros I found to use. Puppy linux is fast and fairly easy to use.
Linux Mint is rather good but it is difficult to do many things, from a pint and click computer user. And that is precisely what people want - point and click automation with an easy to understand and configure GUI.
Before Microsoft bought out Xandros, that was a really decent distro.
Ubuntu in any of it's natural forms is disgustingly awful in both appearance and function.
ANY distro that you have a hard tie finding your hard drive and accessing it is worthless.
When I want to get to one of my drive partitions in say ubuntu, I CANNOT do it. There is nothing to click on to get there. Mint isn't much better.
The reason I use windows (win7 currently) is that all linux distros do not support my mobile usb internet dongle.
More on Mint and others - there is no true drag and drop like windows has. I want to drag a url from the browser address line to the desktop and it does not work. In windows it does.
No one in their right mind wants to have to screw with an OS just to get it to do what they want.
It also seems that linux developers want linux to appear like aero and newer win OS's but for some reason they lack the desire to make it feel like windows with a very few exceptions. PCLOS was about the best windows 'feel' and appearance.
I like linux because of the lack of hassles and problems associated with malware.
I like windows because they spent many millions on developing the gui for visual appeal and ease of use.
Compare gimp to paint shop pro (7,8, or 9). Which looks better and is easier to use?
My wife wants her paint shop pro and hates the way gimp looks ad functions.
Gimp has the appearance and function of an old corporate environment.
Take some of the geekiness out of linux and make it both feel and work like windows and you can be sure that more people will switch.
Note: few if any distros come with dvdcss or similar. Few if any come with WINE and the WINE versions out there are so horribly difficult to use that it isn't worth using.
I am not bashing anything, just rendering my observations of both, from a home computer user standpoint.
I, like most people, do not want to ave a complicated way of doing anything, especially anything related to command line.
I did notice that there isn't any mention of dual booting with uefi. And wubi.exe is pointless. You still are using windows. Just run vmware and you get less problems.
If windows detects ANY other bootable partition or ANY linux file systems, including linux swap file, windows wants to be repaired immediately. This usually means running bcdedit or easy bcd if you are able to or the windows repair disk.
I even had to reformat and reinstall win7 on at least 2 occasions due to grub screwing everything up.
A work around was to unplug my win7 HD, get an ssd drive with a usb 3.0 external enclosure, install mint 13.
When I want to use linux I plug in the external drive then turn on the computer. I immediately select that drive to boot from.
Neither 'knows' about the other. When finished, I restart and remove the usb drive and allow win7 to boot. Most times I do not get the repair screen. But when I do I just select boot normally and it works.
So, tell me how linux is better than windows when you have to go to great lengths to even use it?
Linux could make their own uefi and replace the windows uefi, incorporating the linux file systems and other boot options.
Linux could even clone the security key for windows and trick windows that way too.
Also, you can boot live versions without a problem. And puppy from a flash drive without a problem either.
Just no traditional dual booting allowed.
Lastly, none of this will matter soon as we all will be forced to use cloud computing. This make the *nix vs windows a mute point.
I have tried Windows 8 on both my old Acer 1825ptz convertible tablet and also my desktop. They both worked fine. I don't find them inefficient and that would be the last word I'd use to describe Windows 8. It's surprisingly working extremely fast for an old device with an old tablet's 320GB non-SSD SATA drive. It managed to boot up in seconds.
Application wise, typical Windows installation method is available. Else there's Market Place where apps can be installed like iOS or Android which I think most people will find it familiar. On my desktop I still managed to play my games like Starcraft 2, Crysis, Sleeping Dogs, etc. So I didn't find any problems on Windows 8 that I need Ubuntu to fix.
So far, I only have 1 trouble which I don find it troubling. I can't seem to find any antivirus that can run on Windows 8 yet. So I gotta stick to Windows Defender for some time.
Application wise, typical Windows installation method is available. Else there's Market Place where apps can be installed like iOS or Android which I think most people will find it familiar. On my desktop I still managed to play my games like Starcraft 2, Crysis, Sleeping Dogs, etc. So I didn't find any problems on Windows 8 that I need Ubuntu to fix.
So far, I only have 1 trouble which I don find it troubling. I can't seem to find any antivirus that can run on Windows 8 yet. So I gotta stick to Windows Defender for some time.
We've all seen how fast a fresh Windows install is. Give it some time and it'll be the same polished turd that all the other Windows OSes were.
I have a PC that has been running XP for 8 years, and it still boots in less than 30 seconds. Your statement is simply untrue. It's user behaviour that makes the difference.
Still alive & kicking, still delivering exactly what I need.
KDE is a fantastically versatile thing. Desktop/touchscreen discrepancy was solved simply by different activities, some of which are mouse-friendly, others finger-friendly. It can be configured to be almost indistinguishable from Windows 7 or 8.
Unfortunately, the KDE's versatility takes toll on its popularity. I've seen many new users get totally lost in the multitudes of its options and settings. It will always be among the top 10 distros, but never at the top.
KDE is a fantastically versatile thing. Desktop/touchscreen discrepancy was solved simply by different activities, some of which are mouse-friendly, others finger-friendly. It can be configured to be almost indistinguishable from Windows 7 or 8.
Unfortunately, the KDE's versatility takes toll on its popularity. I've seen many new users get totally lost in the multitudes of its options and settings. It will always be among the top 10 distros, but never at the top.
For non computer literate or the terminally impatient, Mint MATE.
For the slightly more adventurous but still ill equipped, Mint KDE.
For the literate user looking for good engineering OpenSUSE KDE.
Those would be my recommendations. They're both green.. funny co-incidence
I strongly prefer 'independent' Linux distro's rather than 'based on Ubuntu' which is in turn 'based on' Debian. Too many fingers on the code.
For the slightly more adventurous but still ill equipped, Mint KDE.
For the literate user looking for good engineering OpenSUSE KDE.
Those would be my recommendations. They're both green.. funny co-incidence
I strongly prefer 'independent' Linux distro's rather than 'based on Ubuntu' which is in turn 'based on' Debian. Too many fingers on the code.
M$ is spending over a BILLION DOLLARS on marketing 8... and lawyers on retainer to silence anyone who doesn't jump on the bandwagon.
Actually, I made the 'switch' back when Windows 8 RTMed a couple months ago. I put 'switch' in quotes because I've dabbled in Linux for several years already. But, after trying Windows 8 for just a couple of hours, I wiped my hard drive and turned my laptop officially into a full-time Ubuntu 12.04 machine. My desktop still has WIndows 7, I'm not leaving Windows completely. I actually really like Windows 7, and it's still necessary for work, Photoshop, Visual Studio, and some other programs that won't run on Linux. But, I'm also now diving deep into Linux, instead of just 'dabbling'.
I'm there with adimauro, I had dabbled with Linux here and there but since I saw the direction of Microsoft (forcing their way on users instead of listening to users) I am making the move to Linux. At home I have a Windows 7 and a Ubuntu 12.10 computer. I still have some games on Win7 and it works well so I may keep that for a while however I think that will be my last Windows system. I'm looking forward to Steam for Linux.
Over at Codeweavers.com, you can get Crossover free for a year ... that's a management layer on top of WINE that makes it very easy to run many Windows games (and other software packages) on Linux. May want to check if your favorite games are supported and give it a try.
There's nothing they do that's really not available in WINE (all their changes to WINE move upstream, they're responsible FOSS participants), but they organize it all better, and make it all easier by having pre-built settings for many apps.
There's nothing they do that's really not available in WINE (all their changes to WINE move upstream, they're responsible FOSS participants), but they organize it all better, and make it all easier by having pre-built settings for many apps.
While i am not a fan of a company bashing the compitation to make a better name for themselves, (Sorry, the "Avoid the pain of Windows 8" was something cheap I would expect from Microsoft.) I also am not a fan of a company trying to force something on me without options. This is what microsoft is trying to do with Windows 8 and their "Touchscreen OS". While Ubuntu does have a few issues I am not fond of, it has risen above Windows 8 for use in my home and business. Although I would like to see it run more of the apps I need, I can usually work around this. Microsoft may have shot itself in the foot with Windows 8, I cannot see a true use for installing it for a business application.
Having read yesterday's Distrowatch article on Ubuntu 12.10 I don't think it is going to stand out against W8. It seems to be slower than 12.04 was, and there seem to be several bugs. 12.04 on the other hand would probably beat W8.
Personally I would rather use almost any other GUI than that of W8 or unity, my current favorite being E17 (Bodhi).
Personally I would rather use almost any other GUI than that of W8 or unity, my current favorite being E17 (Bodhi).
Avoiding Windows 8 and Mac Mountain Lion are the reasons I went to Linux. I tried Linux on an old machine before Vista came out without success (Linux didn't get along well with the hardware), so I moved to Mac for six years. But now THAT old machine won't accept upgrades to Lion or Mountain Lion, and I don't like the closed environment Apple is moving toward. So I got a new Lenovo laptop, installed Ubuntu 12.04 and have been more than happy ever since. Unity bothered me for about a day, until I read a small article on how to use its primary features.
Tell Windows & Ubuntu what they can do with their 'New & Improved' desktops and then switch to Debian and get some real work done.
Whilst I understand all the comments being related to Win8 because that was in the original tagline. What about the implications of the new tagline? I will appreciate the new tagline if Canonical is going to be true to it. In other words, my wish is that Unity 2D will be reintroduced to Ubuntu 12.10. Will that be their command? I guess time will tell.
I've been using Linux desktops for years and recently been on Ubuntu from 11.04. My biggest gripe is every upgrade is rubbish. Why do they even bother? Just tell the users to reinstall from scratch rather than trying to upgrade. Other than that's it's been a great OS. Solid, does what I want and quickly.
So we'll see how Windows 8 goes. So far it's downloaded 2GB of stuff and seems to have lost it...
So we'll see how Windows 8 goes. So far it's downloaded 2GB of stuff and seems to have lost it...
I have 4 different Linux distros installed as VMs on my Win. 7 machine. My system is a little more than a year old, but the performance is fine. The response time using Firefox, Chrome plus other apps (even those installed with WINE - e.g., notepad++, etc.) is about the same (sometimes faster) than using the Windows 7 versions. I have an ACER with 3.1GHz, 4GB RAM and 1TB HD (partitioned).
I believe that at the very least, if you put them on separate hard drives you should have no problem dual booting between Ubuntu and Windows 8 (or 7 of course).
On my desktop machine at home, Windows 8 Release Preview is on one drive and is totally unaware of any other operating system's existence. Ubuntu Studio is on the other, and all I had to do after adding the Windows 8 drive was run an "update-grub" command.
Of course to install Windows 8 I had to connect only the hard drive it was going onto during the installation. I don't go into Windows 8 on that machine. The only thing it's used for is to run World of Warcraft for my brother. If I didn't have issues running WoW in DirectX mode on an ATI card, it probably wouldn't be there at all (or if Blizzard weren't letting the OpenGL 64 bit bugs in WoW remain forever, even though Mac users are experiencing the same issues).
On my desktop machine at home, Windows 8 Release Preview is on one drive and is totally unaware of any other operating system's existence. Ubuntu Studio is on the other, and all I had to do after adding the Windows 8 drive was run an "update-grub" command.
Of course to install Windows 8 I had to connect only the hard drive it was going onto during the installation. I don't go into Windows 8 on that machine. The only thing it's used for is to run World of Warcraft for my brother. If I didn't have issues running WoW in DirectX mode on an ATI card, it probably wouldn't be there at all (or if Blizzard weren't letting the OpenGL 64 bit bugs in WoW remain forever, even though Mac users are experiencing the same issues).
"Your wish is our command"...? Unity? seriously? That sounds more like Ubuntu is taking a page out of the MicroSoft advertising book: say what you want people to believe regardless of whether it is true. Unity is what drove me away from Ubuntu. I am still solidly with Linux, but Ubuntu is history. The original tagline might have been true (I would not know) but the new one === false.
If yes, it would be interesting to see it running on one of the new HP hybrids. Get an Envy X2 and install Ubuntu ... instant Ubuntu tablet.
I say this because both O/S-es are disregarding 20+ years of user functionality - mouse point-and-click. The notion of using the keyboard for menu navigation died with DOS 6.22 (anybody remember those days?).
My experience with both Win8 as well as Unity has not been good. I navigate via mouse and go to keyboard *after* I launch an application. With these O/S-es, I find myself 'over-clicking' just to launch an app. And sorry to say, searching to *find* an application before launching it is... not so user-friendly for me.
IMO, both MS and Canonical don't seem to understand that the desktop/laptop user experience is not the same as the tablet/smartphone user experience. Why else would they market one O/S for both? I personally don't like Apple products (macs, ipads, etc) but I understand why the masses are so awestruck - the user experience on their products are great! Apple seems to get it - that's my guess as to why the O/S on the Mac is not the same as the O/S on the iPad/iPhone.
Sorry Jack, but your 'used-car sales pitch' on Unity is not working for me. I've used Ubuntu since 8.x and will continue to use 10.04 as my primary O/S until support runs out. In the meantime, I will continue to look at Debian (a little behind with the new hardware drivers), Linux Mint Mate (where is the top panel?) and other crazy mash-ups - can you say Ubuntu 12.04 server running under a MATE desktop (where is the display manager?)
My experience with both Win8 as well as Unity has not been good. I navigate via mouse and go to keyboard *after* I launch an application. With these O/S-es, I find myself 'over-clicking' just to launch an app. And sorry to say, searching to *find* an application before launching it is... not so user-friendly for me.
IMO, both MS and Canonical don't seem to understand that the desktop/laptop user experience is not the same as the tablet/smartphone user experience. Why else would they market one O/S for both? I personally don't like Apple products (macs, ipads, etc) but I understand why the masses are so awestruck - the user experience on their products are great! Apple seems to get it - that's my guess as to why the O/S on the Mac is not the same as the O/S on the iPad/iPhone.
Sorry Jack, but your 'used-car sales pitch' on Unity is not working for me. I've used Ubuntu since 8.x and will continue to use 10.04 as my primary O/S until support runs out. In the meantime, I will continue to look at Debian (a little behind with the new hardware drivers), Linux Mint Mate (where is the top panel?) and other crazy mash-ups - can you say Ubuntu 12.04 server running under a MATE desktop (where is the display manager?)
I have an old (hand-me-down) Toshiba laptop with Ubuntu 10.04 installed and I still get updates for the non-Canonical support. I also have an old (hand-me-down) Acer laptop with Ubuntu 10.10 and still get non-Canonical updates on it too (never could get 10.04 to install on it - even the live CD would not make it through boot up. I mentioned ZorinOS and SolusOS in my other posts here.
sudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop
Then log in to XFCE. Voila. Or kubuntu-desktop, for a widget-rich KDE env. Or lubuntu-desktop for a very very resource light desktop (though XFCE in Xubuntu is nearly as light). Or install E17, or ... or ... or ...
Ubuntu has made some good moves at the kernel and library level ... and has pretty good repositories. You can take advantage of both those facts, whilst using the desktop you prefer.
Are there alternate desktops for Windows 8, anyone?
Then log in to XFCE. Voila. Or kubuntu-desktop, for a widget-rich KDE env. Or lubuntu-desktop for a very very resource light desktop (though XFCE in Xubuntu is nearly as light). Or install E17, or ... or ... or ...
Ubuntu has made some good moves at the kernel and library level ... and has pretty good repositories. You can take advantage of both those facts, whilst using the desktop you prefer.
Are there alternate desktops for Windows 8, anyone?
I recently spent weeks with a test install of Ubuntu 12.10 that I used as a substrate to install : Lubuntu (LXDE), Xubuntu (Xfce), Mate (GTK2), Cinnamon (GTK3) & KDE (Qt4) in addtion to trying again Unity.
Yes you can install any of these using the package manager built in to Ubuntu but in every case there were problems, bugs, missing bit's. Mint provides these choices in a really polished fully complete package.
It's doing a disservice to Linux to pretend that it is sooooo easy to just throw together anything. It's not. It takes serious man hours of high level developer time to produce quality distro's. Don't be pretending otherwise.
I'm not 13 years old or a retiree with unlimited tinckering time.
I need a distro that's polished, complete & easy to use. That used to be Ubuntu until the onset of Unity disease. It is'nt any more unfortunately.
Rather than knee jerk I devoted one full week of using Gnome3 desktop and then one full week using Unity just to make sure I was'nt being to quick to judge. Gnome3 I can put up with if I had no other choice but the ergonomics are terrible. Unity? it's _worse_ than Gnome3. It's just a half assed mess that is painfuly bad.
Little things that drive new users nuts?
Persistence of settings eg I want my sound levels & screen brighness to remain at the same level I left them at last time I logged out.
The only two (usable by mere mortals) desktops that do are Mate (GTK2) & KDE (Qt4).
Yes you can install any of these using the package manager built in to Ubuntu but in every case there were problems, bugs, missing bit's. Mint provides these choices in a really polished fully complete package.
It's doing a disservice to Linux to pretend that it is sooooo easy to just throw together anything. It's not. It takes serious man hours of high level developer time to produce quality distro's. Don't be pretending otherwise.
I'm not 13 years old or a retiree with unlimited tinckering time.
I need a distro that's polished, complete & easy to use. That used to be Ubuntu until the onset of Unity disease. It is'nt any more unfortunately.
Rather than knee jerk I devoted one full week of using Gnome3 desktop and then one full week using Unity just to make sure I was'nt being to quick to judge. Gnome3 I can put up with if I had no other choice but the ergonomics are terrible. Unity? it's _worse_ than Gnome3. It's just a half assed mess that is painfuly bad.
Little things that drive new users nuts?
Persistence of settings eg I want my sound levels & screen brighness to remain at the same level I left them at last time I logged out.
The only two (usable by mere mortals) desktops that do are Mate (GTK2) & KDE (Qt4).
that Canonical didn't want to "slam" Microsoft with that one on second thought, whatever the reason. They could have changed it to something like "An OS that ACTUALLY does work on all devices, without having what you don't want shoved down your throat!"
Even with Unity on Ubuntu, if you don't like it, get rid of it.. easy. Install Xubuntu instead for the "old-school" interface, and use the Unity interface for your tablet or touch screen device, it that makes sense to you. You CAN have what you want on Linux, even in the 'buntus, and install something different for each device. No problem.
I was in a store the other day, they were pushing Win8 on touchscreen HP all-in-ones. While it seemed easy to use, and would work fine for someone who didn't switch applications constantly, I don't think it's a great idea to have to reach UP to touch your screen when the ergonomic keyboard and mouse are right under your fingers, already. DOH
HOWEVER on a tablet, the dang thing's right there already. I wouldn't want to type on one or try to do more than one thing at a time on it though.
TOTALLY different devices, need totally different interfaces. People can learn a new device a heck of a lot easier than they can unlearn 20 years of point and click and typing!
What's next, a touch screen digital clock that runs full version Windows 8, navigating past the start screen, then opening the clock, choosing your time zone, your language, etc. even though you seriously only want do is glance at it to look at a couple numbers (the time) and not surf to ZDnet on it?
Even with Unity on Ubuntu, if you don't like it, get rid of it.. easy. Install Xubuntu instead for the "old-school" interface, and use the Unity interface for your tablet or touch screen device, it that makes sense to you. You CAN have what you want on Linux, even in the 'buntus, and install something different for each device. No problem.
I was in a store the other day, they were pushing Win8 on touchscreen HP all-in-ones. While it seemed easy to use, and would work fine for someone who didn't switch applications constantly, I don't think it's a great idea to have to reach UP to touch your screen when the ergonomic keyboard and mouse are right under your fingers, already. DOH
HOWEVER on a tablet, the dang thing's right there already. I wouldn't want to type on one or try to do more than one thing at a time on it though.
TOTALLY different devices, need totally different interfaces. People can learn a new device a heck of a lot easier than they can unlearn 20 years of point and click and typing!
What's next, a touch screen digital clock that runs full version Windows 8, navigating past the start screen, then opening the clock, choosing your time zone, your language, etc. even though you seriously only want do is glance at it to look at a couple numbers (the time) and not surf to ZDnet on it?
- Keyboard Shortcuts:
- Prev
- Next
- Toggle
