I actually "reneged" on two job offers. The first time it was because I did not feel comfortable accepting a one-year contract. I was frank with the hiring manager at the time. When, after being laid off, I came knocking back, eight years later, the same hiring manager gave me a permanent job.
The second time, was because I was interviewed and offered a job by a VP. When I met my supervisor, a week after my acceptance but before my official start date, I realized I would have a hard time working with that person. I submitted my "resignation." Within a year, that company was bankrupt.
Sometimes changing your mind is not a bad thing.
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First you are burning a bridge at your current company because you are a traitor and second the company that offered the job you are turning down to remain may no longer want to hear from you again either. I would only accept a counter offer with a multi year can't be laid off or fired contract. If they won't give that (and almost no one will) you should never accept the counter offer. They are just buying time to dump you either its finish a project or train a replacement.
Usually the reasons for wanting to leave a company have a little to do with money and mostly with conditions/working with bad people. Money does not fix the second, its always better to stick to your guns and move on.
Usually the reasons for wanting to leave a company have a little to do with money and mostly with conditions/working with bad people. Money does not fix the second, its always better to stick to your guns and move on.
Corporates don't give it, so they don't get it.
It's this simple I shook the guy's hand and made an agreement, so it stands, until they fail to deliver, or I do...
It's this simple I shook the guy's hand and made an agreement, so it stands, until they fail to deliver, or I do...
whose paperwork requirements approach the size of War and Peace for inband/pay for performance adjustments. In those organizations everyone from management to employee accepts the outside offer as a non-stigmatized means for trying to normalize ones pay wrt the folks fresh off the street from the private sector.
Many states pay higher than private sector nowadays. Not all, but many.
have only served in VA. Here if you have been in state service for more than a few years your salary doesn't keep up compared to the private sector. I saw a lot of fresh faced college kids come in making the same or more than their grizzled peers...
Direct pay in state service may lag the private sector. But...when you add in the very extensive fringe benefits and total job security (such as in CT and other heavily unionized states), unmatched in the private sector, the total compensation package comes out very close, if not better.
But currently have better benefits working in the private sector now vs. VA state employment.
And it seems like VA along with a bunch of other states are cutting those "fringe benefits" right and left along with no pay raises for years on end. I really don't know why anyone would go that route today.
And it seems like VA along with a bunch of other states are cutting those "fringe benefits" right and left along with no pay raises for years on end. I really don't know why anyone would go that route today.
It's open season on public service employees! Back 'in the day', it was common knowledge that private sector employees got paid more money and bonuses, and that public sector employees got paid less money and more benefits.
Now, since private sector employees have taken big benefit and salary hits, the press and others have turned them against public sector employees. So now, public sentiment is against 'high paid' public sector employees, and they are in major attack mode against public sector unions and employees.
I can't see how the public sector is going to keep personnel because they are totally against paying anyone a reasonable wage with reasonable benefits these days.
Now, since private sector employees have taken big benefit and salary hits, the press and others have turned them against public sector employees. So now, public sentiment is against 'high paid' public sector employees, and they are in major attack mode against public sector unions and employees.
I can't see how the public sector is going to keep personnel because they are totally against paying anyone a reasonable wage with reasonable benefits these days.
is one of those states in which folks have gotten the axe left and right at various agencies.
What is sad is that politics went far beyond "saving money" in this process. At first long term planning on defined benefits made sense to reduce the workforce thru WTA. But by the mid 00s every position cut actually cost the state more in private contracts than was saved by salary/benefits because the work still had to be done. Just a net loss shell game which looked oh-so-shiny on the workforce reduction side.
What is sad is that politics went far beyond "saving money" in this process. At first long term planning on defined benefits made sense to reduce the workforce thru WTA. But by the mid 00s every position cut actually cost the state more in private contracts than was saved by salary/benefits because the work still had to be done. Just a net loss shell game which looked oh-so-shiny on the workforce reduction side.
what do i do after accepting a counter offer? can i rebuild my relationship with my company and by doing what?
Thanks
Thanks
It really depends on your relationship with your current employer and your reasons for leaving. If the conditions are right, you need to speak to someone (preferably your manager, but their manager if this is not appropriate) explaining your reasons for looking for another job and try to agree an action plan to remedy things. You need to be seen to be trying to (re)build a future with your employer but you both need to take positive and measurable steps to achieve this. It is not impossible.
You were going to leave, the relationship was already broken. If that wasn't already apparent to them before you got an offer, what were the reasons? Did you keep quiet about looking because you knew there would have been an adverse reaction if they found out? Hardly a surprise is it. I mean if they were upstairs discussing down-sizing you, they would invite you would they? After all, there might have been an adverse reaction...
In some waysa counter-offer could be seen as a way of rebuilding the realtionship on their part.
It's all about why you were going to leave, versus why they didn't want you to. If those two opposing needs are aligned, then all is good. So to me, get it all out on the table, have the hard conversation.Kniow where you stand.
Unless there's some secret you are keeping, you have done nothing wrong. Anyone who says different is a worthless hyprocrite.
In some waysa counter-offer could be seen as a way of rebuilding the realtionship on their part.
It's all about why you were going to leave, versus why they didn't want you to. If those two opposing needs are aligned, then all is good. So to me, get it all out on the table, have the hard conversation.Kniow where you stand.
Unless there's some secret you are keeping, you have done nothing wrong. Anyone who says different is a worthless hyprocrite.
I once was offered a job interview by a competitor to my then current employer. I accepted that interview to learn what they might have to offer. In a society where we are not slaves, I think that is perfectly fair. Employment is not marriage, or citizenship, where loyalty is normally a lifetime affair. Employment is at the convenience and for the benefit of both parties, employer and employee.
The competitors offer was attractive, but not a real paradigm change. I received a counteroffer (without even asking for it) and chose to accept it, and stayed on with that employer for a number of years and with no hard feelings. On the contrary, I think they saw it as an added sign of loyalty that I stayed on, and they saw counteroffer as a way to not penalize me for that loyalty, rather than as extra money that I got out of them by blackmail.
The thing about money not being so important works both ways. If they are happy with my work, a little bump in my salary should not bother my employer and can make my wife and kids a bit more comfortable...
The competitors offer was attractive, but not a real paradigm change. I received a counteroffer (without even asking for it) and chose to accept it, and stayed on with that employer for a number of years and with no hard feelings. On the contrary, I think they saw it as an added sign of loyalty that I stayed on, and they saw counteroffer as a way to not penalize me for that loyalty, rather than as extra money that I got out of them by blackmail.
The thing about money not being so important works both ways. If they are happy with my work, a little bump in my salary should not bother my employer and can make my wife and kids a bit more comfortable...
People and companies don't like to be under pressure or challenged with persons from inside... It means nobody feels confortable to see an employee they count for looking for new outside opportunties. But it seems to me normal to stay tuned to the market! You can't blame the employee to be challenged and to exist as a "mightbe" new opportunity for other companies. Does those companies have a bad feeling over an employee who denied an offer? I don't think so... If the employee is honest with them... He tells his real motivation, situation. In this case it is a fair game! And if he wants to be hired, he gave certainly signs enough in its current position to warn his management, management which has to react. If it doesn't its certainly a sign strong enough to motivate the employee to see outside. It certainly means that his current situation might become harder...
As I have worked for several US and international companies in the past, take all you can get. A better contract with better pay and conditions, great. Position is a relevant thing. Those at the top are the ones holding the cards and this is just a big playground to them. If you can make strategic friends, all the better. Friends of the bosses are bad as they won't risk their positions to people who are better suited as they have that job. It is better to have something on the company like knowledge they need to further you progression. Only share information you learn with those who really matter. Site directors actually live in fear as they are just a minor extension of the real management.
Trust is a big thing. If you carefully watch and listen, you will know if colleagues on all levels progressed by integrity, or by screwing their colleagues. I have seen talented people I greatly respected get the axe because they really cared about others. In business, the company comes first, and you are still just a number. Regardless of what you are told. And as far as blackmail goes, remember that those you try to work over may have more practice.
Trust is a big thing. If you carefully watch and listen, you will know if colleagues on all levels progressed by integrity, or by screwing their colleagues. I have seen talented people I greatly respected get the axe because they really cared about others. In business, the company comes first, and you are still just a number. Regardless of what you are told. And as far as blackmail goes, remember that those you try to work over may have more practice.
Not much more to add! I always say, companies have a loyalty to themselves/shareholders and don't give a rats rear about you. You have to do what is right for you. I have worked multiple jobs and completely dedicated and loyal. Well, I would still have been at one job.
Not necessarily true. I've worked with people who looked to leave, received offers from another company and then accepted counter offers to stay.
One ended up getting repeatedly promoted (so much so I wondered how he got promoted so fast, and only found out when I myself received a very generous counter offer as I was ready to jump ship), another got a very good counteroffer to stay and was subsequently pursued by the same company that he blew out by accepting a counteroffer at least twice more.
Ultimately if you're a good employee companies want the skillset. The only point I agree with in this article is that extra money doesn't make other problems go away, which is why I turned down a counteroffer even though it would have given me a 25% pay raise overnight.
One ended up getting repeatedly promoted (so much so I wondered how he got promoted so fast, and only found out when I myself received a very generous counter offer as I was ready to jump ship), another got a very good counteroffer to stay and was subsequently pursued by the same company that he blew out by accepting a counteroffer at least twice more.
Ultimately if you're a good employee companies want the skillset. The only point I agree with in this article is that extra money doesn't make other problems go away, which is why I turned down a counteroffer even though it would have given me a 25% pay raise overnight.
When I go looking for a job and get an offer I will never accept a counter offer from my own company. Whether you need more money or you are not happy with the current benefits, if your company did not treat you correctly in the first place you would not looking for a new job. This way, if you move back to your company after a couple of years they know that you do not bluff, you are decisive and you don't do tricks. I also do not exercise ultimatums since they are a kind of bluff. You will also build up a name for being professional.
If you're looking to go, then be ready to go. It depends greatly on the reasons, as a systemic or organizational problem isn't resolved with money. That's my opinion.
I really like your point about "they know that you do not bluff, you are decisive and you don't do tricks." I hadn't previously considered that viewpoint. Thanks.
I really like your point about "they know that you do not bluff, you are decisive and you don't do tricks." I hadn't previously considered that viewpoint. Thanks.
I didn't jump through all those hoops, put all that effort in, deal with damn recruiters and HR, just to twist my current employer's arm to get a pay rise. If you have to do that to convince your employer you are worthy of one, they are a waste of space and you should leave anyway...
If you receive an acceptable offer from a prospective employer then just leave. It's as simple as that.
A couple of years ago I became unhappy at work and applied for (and was offered) another job.
My manager was a little bit shocked, but I made clear that with a baby on the way the pay and conditions I were on fell short of the other offer and family comes first.
After a long discussion with my manager he actually made some fairly drastic changes and upped my pay substantially.
I'll never forget that he went the extra mile for my benefit, and so I will always do the same for him.
Our working relationship has never been better and long may it continue!
My manager was a little bit shocked, but I made clear that with a baby on the way the pay and conditions I were on fell short of the other offer and family comes first.
After a long discussion with my manager he actually made some fairly drastic changes and upped my pay substantially.
I'll never forget that he went the extra mile for my benefit, and so I will always do the same for him.
Our working relationship has never been better and long may it continue!
I'm curious as to why you would not have had that discussion with your manager first? It seems likely to me given their response that you would have had the same result without the "threat" of leaving.
Of course in some corporations no threat means no response but it doesn't look like that was the case here.
Of course in some corporations no threat means no response but it doesn't look like that was the case here.
No such thing as loyalty in the modern workplace, to presume otherwise shows a naviaeity that will get exploited. It might cut across your moral code, but the reason we all go to work is because we have to. Not because we want to, so it is encumbent upon the individual to secure the best deal they can, whether that is a pay rise or promotion. You can be sure that you will be shown no such loyalty when the boot is on the other foot.
I received a tempting counteroffer four months ago. I went online and sought the opinions of others, 9/10 work-related authors and bloggers agreed with you. You're not usually leaving for money reasons, more money won't fix them.
I'm very, very glad I resisted. I now have a job which should last until retirement.
I'm very, very glad I resisted. I now have a job which should last until retirement.
I'd agree that you owe the company as much loyalty as they'd provide you. If layoffs were occurring and they needed to lay you off they aren't necessarily going to be worried about you. That is unless you've built relationships, which is the critical piece. Without them any forward progress in your career will be very difficult.
I read some statistics about counter offers some time ago. They were pretty telling. I don't remember the exact numbers but it was a high percentage, something like 75% or more, of people that accept counter offers are no longer employed by that company within 1 year. It didn't dig any deeper than that, so the reasons are undoubtedly varied. It would be interesting to see the split between company and employee initiated terminations.
My own personal experience in this area tends to agree with the article and the statistics. I interviewed and selected a guy for one of my top positions. He accepted my offer, but then a couple of days before he was supposed to start he contacted HR and told them he had accepted a counter offer. It really ticked me off. Caused me to have to do the whole process all over again from square 1. I lost weeks of revenue. I kept his resume in a special file to make sure I would remember him. Lo and behold guess whose resume appeared on my desk after a job fair a few months later? Yep, and he was unemployed. Laid off. During his interview he told me how valuable he was and how his skills were unique in his current job. Guess he wasn't as valuable or unique as he thought. His resume went in the trash. I will not waste my time on him again, ever.
My own personal experience in this area tends to agree with the article and the statistics. I interviewed and selected a guy for one of my top positions. He accepted my offer, but then a couple of days before he was supposed to start he contacted HR and told them he had accepted a counter offer. It really ticked me off. Caused me to have to do the whole process all over again from square 1. I lost weeks of revenue. I kept his resume in a special file to make sure I would remember him. Lo and behold guess whose resume appeared on my desk after a job fair a few months later? Yep, and he was unemployed. Laid off. During his interview he told me how valuable he was and how his skills were unique in his current job. Guess he wasn't as valuable or unique as he thought. His resume went in the trash. I will not waste my time on him again, ever.
This bull about loyalty is just that B.S. Companies have no loyalty to employees. We are just a resource to them. You bust you butt for an firm, especially I.T. companies or divisions. They would dump you with out batting an eye. And, the ones making the decisions don't have the guts to do it themselves. They make the someone else give the bad news.
If you plan to leave a company, they want you to give them at least a two weeks notice. When they want you to go, it is usually late Friday afternoon you are told to leave the premisies and not come back. Some will even have you escorted out the door ans insure you take none of the property.
Why does a company offer a counter offer, they do not want to loose their investment in you, the resource on their books.
Burning bridges is want you have done. But its business not personal, per Don Corleone.
If you plan to leave a company, they want you to give them at least a two weeks notice. When they want you to go, it is usually late Friday afternoon you are told to leave the premisies and not come back. Some will even have you escorted out the door ans insure you take none of the property.
Why does a company offer a counter offer, they do not want to loose their investment in you, the resource on their books.
Burning bridges is want you have done. But its business not personal, per Don Corleone.
I've seen several people who they knew were about to be escorted off the premises first be asked to train someone on their job under some pretext. This means they spend the day showing the person who's about to take their job how to do it, then get escorted off the premises around 4:55pm.
What a quaint notion. Maybe you should ask how this affects your pension, wait a minute, there hasn't been pensions since the 1980s. What about company loyalty? Hahahahaahahahaahahahahahahahaahaahahahahahhaah, I'm killing myself, company loyalty, pensions. No, we need to work for the least amount of money offered, after all, our employers will stand behind us no matter what.
As for burning bridges, napalm the mofos, and don't look back.
BTW- have you had ANY experience in our industry?
As for burning bridges, napalm the mofos, and don't look back.
BTW- have you had ANY experience in our industry?
Loyalty is something that is expected from the employee, while none is offered in return. That's for suckers. One owes a company exactly what they feel they owe you- nothing. The company always comes first- they'll think nothing of laying off a 10 year, "loyal" employee. Why should this be any different for the individual?
Look out for yourself and your family- companies sure as heck won't.
Look out for yourself and your family- companies sure as heck won't.
Totally agreed!
Moving from a job to another is a great opportunity to enlarge your career.
Moving from a job to another is a great opportunity to enlarge your career.
I've told a story that highlights this before, but has noone wondered why, when their company makes them an attractive counter-offer, they weren't paying them that rate, or even a FRACTION of it, beforehand? According to Toni, and a few other people's comments, companies and management can be petty and vindictive. You don't want to work in that environment, but sometimes you have no choice. Besides, it's pretty widespread. In any case, it's just business. Your manager can be your friend, but they're paid to keep costs down. To that end, they'll pay you as low as you can get away with until you fight back. A lot of times just asking for a raise gets sorry speaches about overheads, recessions, lack of funding, etc... Until you actually have a foot out of the door. You just have to be prepared to back up that bluff.
When you have to, I remember the phrase, "Money can't buy happiness. But it can buy you a big boat, which CAN make you happy..."
Showing loyalty is definitely a plus, but cash is king.
When you have to, I remember the phrase, "Money can't buy happiness. But it can buy you a big boat, which CAN make you happy..."
A few years ago, I gave notice, and a few days later received a counteroffer. I immediately declined, as I had made a commitment and had to honor it. Too bad for me, but I don't believe in the grab all you can philosophy.
Still, I was at first flattered, but soon became angered. Why was I suddenly worth more than i had been the day before? If I was that valuable, why hadn't the company paid me more and given me the perks long before? Although I took a small cut in pay when I moved, my new firm recognized my contribution, and my income soon surpassed what I would have had had I accepted the counteroffer. I wasn't too sad when, a couple of years later, my former firm dissolved.
Still, I was at first flattered, but soon became angered. Why was I suddenly worth more than i had been the day before? If I was that valuable, why hadn't the company paid me more and given me the perks long before? Although I took a small cut in pay when I moved, my new firm recognized my contribution, and my income soon surpassed what I would have had had I accepted the counteroffer. I wasn't too sad when, a couple of years later, my former firm dissolved.
We all know people who we feel should be paid more, a lot more who should be paid less. 
But how do you establish your value to a current or future employer? The only definitive way I know, is to put yourself on the market and see who bids higher.
To make any comparison,it has to be for the same skill and experience mix, and both employers have to value that mix equally.
A lot of job moves are coupled with an increase in seniority and responsibility. If your current employer didn't want you for an equivalent role and made a counter offer, that wouldn't make them greedy, it would mean they are dumb.
But how do you establish your value to a current or future employer? The only definitive way I know, is to put yourself on the market and see who bids higher.
To make any comparison,it has to be for the same skill and experience mix, and both employers have to value that mix equally.
A lot of job moves are coupled with an increase in seniority and responsibility. If your current employer didn't want you for an equivalent role and made a counter offer, that wouldn't make them greedy, it would mean they are dumb.
Toni's analysis is spot on. Money is certainly part of the equation, but what matters most is that you are getting to do the kind of work you love to do most of the time. If you love what you're doing, you will be AMAZINGLY good at it, and that will get you more pay increases and promotions than anything else. If you need to move on in order to do what you want to do, or to get away from people you don't like working with, so be it. Accepting a counter-offer is almost never the right answer.
where business hold all the cards and the "loyalist" peons in HR are kissing the butts of upper management so they can keep THEIR jobs.
I am happy and proud to say this is not the case everywhere. I know an HR Admin who refused to place everybody in the company on salary because she recognized the move for what it was and also realized it to be illegal. Of course she soon "retired" because companies don't want honest people working for them, they want trolls and ogres that will do as they are told. As I have grown older I have come to see the American capitalist system for what it is in most cases - vulture capitalism; a system bent on squeezing employees for everything they can get while they hide behind phony excuses of "hard times". All hard times means is instead of netting $1M an exec might have to settle for a paltry $950K. So the long and short of it is - play their game. Take them for all you can get and don't even consider loyalty. They don't care, why should you?
I am happy and proud to say this is not the case everywhere. I know an HR Admin who refused to place everybody in the company on salary because she recognized the move for what it was and also realized it to be illegal. Of course she soon "retired" because companies don't want honest people working for them, they want trolls and ogres that will do as they are told. As I have grown older I have come to see the American capitalist system for what it is in most cases - vulture capitalism; a system bent on squeezing employees for everything they can get while they hide behind phony excuses of "hard times". All hard times means is instead of netting $1M an exec might have to settle for a paltry $950K. So the long and short of it is - play their game. Take them for all you can get and don't even consider loyalty. They don't care, why should you?
In all the years I've been looking for work, whether it be while I'm employed or not, I've learned one important fact.
There's lots of fish in the sea.
Literally, I could apply to a hundred different places, and especially if my application is rejected, it's highly unlikely that they will ever remember me or anything about me. Oh sure, if there's three competitors in your field, and one of them goes out of their way to try to hire me (like this example), then sure maybe they might remember who I am.
But far more likely, especially if this is a large company, they have trouble keeping track of their *own* people. At the bank that my wife works at, if you got an entry level job in the call centre and quit 6 months later, you would be one out of ten thousand who have done that. Even their IT department has had tens of thousands of applications and thousands of interviews.
To top that all off, every single company is different. Every bit of interview advice or even career advice should be taken with a 10-lb block of salt. Personally, in this case I would be insulted that I would have to resort to blackmail to actually get a raise within the company I was working at. Why didn't said company offer more to begin with? Is money the only reason for me leaving or staying? Have they shown me an iota of loyalty to begin with?
There's lots of fish in the sea.
Literally, I could apply to a hundred different places, and especially if my application is rejected, it's highly unlikely that they will ever remember me or anything about me. Oh sure, if there's three competitors in your field, and one of them goes out of their way to try to hire me (like this example), then sure maybe they might remember who I am.
But far more likely, especially if this is a large company, they have trouble keeping track of their *own* people. At the bank that my wife works at, if you got an entry level job in the call centre and quit 6 months later, you would be one out of ten thousand who have done that. Even their IT department has had tens of thousands of applications and thousands of interviews.
To top that all off, every single company is different. Every bit of interview advice or even career advice should be taken with a 10-lb block of salt. Personally, in this case I would be insulted that I would have to resort to blackmail to actually get a raise within the company I was working at. Why didn't said company offer more to begin with? Is money the only reason for me leaving or staying? Have they shown me an iota of loyalty to begin with?
I have found that it's always best to give a positive reason for leaving your job for another one, then stick to that when rejecting counteroffers. I left my last job because my new job is in the field where I'm guiding my career, and it's only 4 minutes from my house instead of 45. When I received the counteroffer, I could honestly say I enjoyed working for them, but the 2 things I was going after at my new job were things they could not offer. They understood, and said they'd hire me back if I was ever interested.
In any case, every person's circumstances are different.
1) Taking an interview does not obligate you to take the job. Taking an interview helps
you learn your status. Receiving a job offer helps you determine your market value.
As long as you keep in mind that starting a new job does not mean you will be able to
keep that new job.
2) You are a professional, hopefully, and if you accept a counter offer you need to do it
in a professional manner. This means an actual contract in exchange for giving up an
opportunity elsewhere.
3) Taking a "sick day" to interview is not all that professional. Taking a personal day is.
What you do on your days off are your business.
There are ways of leaving that do not burn bridges, assuming you are working with
professionals. If you use the offer, that you have not yet accepted, as leverage, that
may be risky but it's what professionals do. Don't make it personal.
An unwillingness to look at options and negotiate generally just guarantee you lower
pay over the long haul. If nothing else, use the offer to give you a little backbone to
address the issues that are making you unhappy. If you can't resolve those issues
then it is time to move on.
Once you accept an offer, that's it unless you want to burn the bridge with the new
company. Likewise, letting your current employer know you are being recruited is
not a bad way to accelerate the process of getting better compensation.
"I'd like to stay, but the new place offers healthcare/daycare/matching 401K, etc."
If you have multiple offers its even better.
Just remember, in most places you are not "family" you are simply an employee.
If they are not treating you as family they have no right to demand such a thing
as "loyalty" especially if they are willing to cut your benefits and yet give the top
brass bonuses.
1) Taking an interview does not obligate you to take the job. Taking an interview helps
you learn your status. Receiving a job offer helps you determine your market value.
As long as you keep in mind that starting a new job does not mean you will be able to
keep that new job.
2) You are a professional, hopefully, and if you accept a counter offer you need to do it
in a professional manner. This means an actual contract in exchange for giving up an
opportunity elsewhere.
3) Taking a "sick day" to interview is not all that professional. Taking a personal day is.
What you do on your days off are your business.
There are ways of leaving that do not burn bridges, assuming you are working with
professionals. If you use the offer, that you have not yet accepted, as leverage, that
may be risky but it's what professionals do. Don't make it personal.
An unwillingness to look at options and negotiate generally just guarantee you lower
pay over the long haul. If nothing else, use the offer to give you a little backbone to
address the issues that are making you unhappy. If you can't resolve those issues
then it is time to move on.
Once you accept an offer, that's it unless you want to burn the bridge with the new
company. Likewise, letting your current employer know you are being recruited is
not a bad way to accelerate the process of getting better compensation.
"I'd like to stay, but the new place offers healthcare/daycare/matching 401K, etc."
If you have multiple offers its even better.
Just remember, in most places you are not "family" you are simply an employee.
If they are not treating you as family they have no right to demand such a thing
as "loyalty" especially if they are willing to cut your benefits and yet give the top
brass bonuses.
I accepted a counteroffer once about 15 years ago and still consider it to be one of the stupidest things I've ever done. As was pointed out, I alienated the organization I had applied to; they initially thought I walked on water. And the managers at my original company never trusted me or took me seriously again. Every observation or complaint, even when legitimate, was considered a ploy to get more money.
When I finally did leave for good, my supervisor's initial response was "I suppose you want a counteroffer?" I said no thanks, I was simply resigning. The loss of good will between me and my long term boss was something that took three years after I left before it began to heal.
My advice regarding counteroffers is very simple: do NOT accept them. If you were unsatisfied to the point that you found work elsewhere, those conditions won't change as part of a counteroffer. You'll be marked as disloyal, untrustworthy and greedy. Once you've made the decision to move on, carry it through.
When I finally did leave for good, my supervisor's initial response was "I suppose you want a counteroffer?" I said no thanks, I was simply resigning. The loss of good will between me and my long term boss was something that took three years after I left before it began to heal.
My advice regarding counteroffers is very simple: do NOT accept them. If you were unsatisfied to the point that you found work elsewhere, those conditions won't change as part of a counteroffer. You'll be marked as disloyal, untrustworthy and greedy. Once you've made the decision to move on, carry it through.
(not all, so if I missed something important, I apologise), and I agree with the sentiments and with the original article.
However, read any of the "how to get a raise" advice and they all include "get an offer from another company"
full_disclosure:: I have, in my career, accepted and rejected counter-offers, and survived each time. I think every situation has to be evaluated individually
However, read any of the "how to get a raise" advice and they all include "get an offer from another company"
full_disclosure:: I have, in my career, accepted and rejected counter-offers, and survived each time. I think every situation has to be evaluated individually
What about a counter-offer to the counter-offer. 
Or a counter-offer to the counter-offer of the counter offer.
Ah well, back to the real world.
Or a counter-offer to the counter-offer of the counter offer.
Ah well, back to the real world.
My brother has a very good reputation in his industry (not IT). He left one firms for another, but never slammed the door. So when word got around he was tired of being on the road all the time, his previous employer made him a sweet offer. He shared that with his current employer, and a bidding war ensued. And he has had something similar happen on other occasions.
There is no definite solution to this. It depends on corporate culture and personality of your managers/supervisors. Go with your guts for your best interests.
We all know that the employee has very little negotiating power in most employment situations. You don't say to your boss, "give me a raise or else I'll ..." what? Quit? No. You have to have job offer in your hand to have any negotiating power. As such, I'm not sure all this horriblizing about negotiating a counter offer is helpful. I've seen employees get a counter offer and say "screw you, you should have offered me a raise *before* I went looking for another job." Employer beware! Employee beware! It's a dog eat dog world out there.
Accepting a counter offer will really start a bad aura to the other workers, giving them it may be a way of 'getting a raise'?!
Tough.
One of the people you need wanting to leave is the management issue. If that failure hadn't occurred, knock on effects from reactinbg to it wouldn't be an issue.
One of the people you need wanting to leave is the management issue. If that failure hadn't occurred, knock on effects from reactinbg to it wouldn't be an issue.
Bad aura or not : It's just the way it works, practically everywhere.
In my case, I was loyal and obedient for about 3 years. Employer was very happy with me, but the job was underpaid bigtime. I thought my attitude would pay off eventually. It did not. I had small raises every year. The last few years I've gotten BIG raises because I've threatened to leave twice. Management folks are always opportunists. They pay whatever minimum that keeps you going. The game is called capitalism and employees and employers are all pawns looking for their own interest. It is what it is.
In my case, I was loyal and obedient for about 3 years. Employer was very happy with me, but the job was underpaid bigtime. I thought my attitude would pay off eventually. It did not. I had small raises every year. The last few years I've gotten BIG raises because I've threatened to leave twice. Management folks are always opportunists. They pay whatever minimum that keeps you going. The game is called capitalism and employees and employers are all pawns looking for their own interest. It is what it is.
I was in a situation 2 years ago that the employer want to fire me because I and my boss did not get along. The plan was leaked and I knew about this.
But then a big project came along and my boss needed me for that. I thought twice seriously to resign but did not. 6 months later when the project was about over, I was axed.
Comeon, loyalty does not worth a penny. Just 'do' what you think is best.
But then a big project came along and my boss needed me for that. I thought twice seriously to resign but did not. 6 months later when the project was about over, I was axed.
Comeon, loyalty does not worth a penny. Just 'do' what you think is best.
If you didn't have a job to go to when the big project came up then you did the right thing. The mistake is if you stopped looking for a job. They didn't know that you had learnt of the plan and continued with the original plan. It had nothing to do with loyalty. Loyalty is something that one sees from their own side.
This is completely subjective in my opinion. If a company is paying you less than you are worth and at the same time you enjoy your job, you should not feel bad for looking elsewhere, and then using another offer to get a raise. It's part of the game, and if a company is not paying you what you deserve, and you have already approached them about it, then you have to do what's best for you.
you would hopefully not have actually accepted the other offer, you would just be using the thought as leverage in your current company. I don't have a problem with going to the boss and saying that I've been made a better offer, but I'd rather stay if they can go some way to match it. What I wouldn't do is accept the other offer then start messing both parties around with counter offers, once I've been offered and accepted a new position I'm working notice and moving on.
There is only one person, you should be loyal to. "You".
Your boss or workplace could be the nicest. Friendliest (Guy/Gal) on the planet. When push comes to shove. It's you who goes over the cliff first..not the boss. If you're unhappy and took those steps, don't look back. If your work satisfaction is based on misplaced "Loyalty"..go work for the Apple Genius Bar, and drink the Purple Koolaid. Maybe you should pick up a copy of Ayn Rand also!. Doesn't mean you have to be a jerk. But welcome to 2012.
Your boss or workplace could be the nicest. Friendliest (Guy/Gal) on the planet. When push comes to shove. It's you who goes over the cliff first..not the boss. If you're unhappy and took those steps, don't look back. If your work satisfaction is based on misplaced "Loyalty"..go work for the Apple Genius Bar, and drink the Purple Koolaid. Maybe you should pick up a copy of Ayn Rand also!. Doesn't mean you have to be a jerk. But welcome to 2012.
While money is always a consideration in looking at making a move, it is typically not the primary consideration. A significant advancement in possition within a new company could be extremey attractive if your current company has little room for advancement. Job security overall is also key to your consideration. If your company is laying off around you and the new company is in growth mode it may tend to reason that the new company has a better shot at stability, if even short term. Finally the culture and excitement level of an organization can either make you ignore the call from a recruiter or actually seek them out. No amount of money can address a miserable environment but a lot of professionals will consider a lateral, or even slight decrease, in order to improve their overall career satisfaction.
I had a somewhat unusual experience with a counter-offer. I was working for a contract firm on an option-to-hire contract with one of their clients. Both I and my employer knew that an offer would be forthcoming from the client, so my employer told me what sort of raise I would receive at the end of the contract, and it was a nice one that I thought was quite fair. I really did not want to become an employee of the client, so when they asked me what sort of salary I wanted, I gave them a figure that I really thought was much more than I was worth. They came up with an offer that met my request. I went back to my employer and told them of the offer and expressed that I would have a hard time turning it down, since it was about 20% more than what I would have received after my raise. I did not ask them to match, just possibly sweeten the promised raise, yet they matched the offer and continued to employ me for several more years. I guess they just had to increase my billing rate to cover my higher salary.
It's just ridiculous for companies to expect loyalty of any sort. Of course you don't screw people over, say like promising to not look at offers for a certain time but then leave or giving one day's notice.
But if a company needs to cut you and contract out work, they're going to do it. Sure the individual manager might not like having to lay you off. But he will do it.
You should avoid duplicity, but in the end you have to take care of yourself and your responsibilities first.
But if a company needs to cut you and contract out work, they're going to do it. Sure the individual manager might not like having to lay you off. But he will do it.
You should avoid duplicity, but in the end you have to take care of yourself and your responsibilities first.
Corporate loyalty is a thing of the past. The company expects you to be loyal but rewarding it is quite another matter. The bottom line in this day and age is to get the money, plain and simple. The day you become "outdated" in your company you can expect to be shown the door no matter what you've contributed to the business. Anyone who doesn't see employment in this light is dwelling in the past.
Sometimes it takes a pretty girl flirt with you to remind the wife that you are indeed still desirable.
Same thing goes here. There are still companies out there that still force you to go out and get that offer before they are willing to bump your pay in a meaningful way.
Same thing goes here. There are still companies out there that still force you to go out and get that offer before they are willing to bump your pay in a meaningful way.
Bear with me: In 1984 I went t0 work for a CA utility, life was good, then deregulation came a long, to the companys credit they looked to the furture, and had concern for there employees. Around 1986 / 87 our CEO had a series of all hands meetings, two things I take from that conversation 1) The way we do business is about to change, you can no longer go from cradle to grave with the same company, there is NO COMPANY ALIGENCE, look around most management upper and middle have a life of seven (7) years, then you move on. 2) Train for the future requirements, in other words keep up to date, you are responsible for your future. In saying that, what is the adage: "The best time to look for a job is when you have a job", is that not true.
If a counter offer is given, the one thing to remember is that the only thing you are really working for are medical benefits, nothing more nor anything less. Think about it.
Are you really concerned about what the other guy thinks, REALLY?
Don't worry about the spelling (don't sweet the small stuff).
If a counter offer is given, the one thing to remember is that the only thing you are really working for are medical benefits, nothing more nor anything less. Think about it.
Are you really concerned about what the other guy thinks, REALLY?
Don't worry about the spelling (don't sweet the small stuff).
-All realistic and valid considerations. Perhaps the next installment could address why one should never defy death by driving to work in the morning; after all, there really are some reasons it would be safer.. I am persuaded that fear mongering only weakens people.
The second (missing) half of this article should offer follow-up strategies to those who find themselves at this crossroad, for whatever reason. It is NOT a hopeless situation, and a percentage of your readers should, in fact move on.
The second (missing) half of this article should offer follow-up strategies to those who find themselves at this crossroad, for whatever reason. It is NOT a hopeless situation, and a percentage of your readers should, in fact move on.
In all my years of working with small, med, or large private sector companies I have never accepted a counter offer. When I decided it was time for a change, I had listed the reasons why I needed to seek alternative employment. I was always leaving for something better and leaving what I no longer wanted behind. Counters are just bad at both ends. The company that made an offer will never consider you again and the company you take the counter from thinks they have you the the bag for the future.
I haven't left that many jobs -- I typically stay a long time, maybe too long -- however I have never accepted a counter offer. In most cases I didn't receive a counter offer, because I made it very clear that I was leaving.
There is a lot of talk of loyalty but I think that most people don't understand what it means. Loyalty is not about sticking blindly with something, it's about an attitude and understanding that both sides have of each other. It's whether they like your attitude and how you will support the other side for what they are giving you. If you have 10 years experience and produce the same quality and quantity as someone with 5 years experience but you get twice the salary then there is something wrong. As time goes by you need to work at other areas of your career and not just the same old things. What I mean by that is that by the time you have your duties down to a routine you can find the time to handle things that will help you consolidate your position in the company and the general market.
Before you reply and say that the guy with 5 years of experience gets more than you take a really good look to see what he is doing right. It doesn't pay to stay bitter.
Some one with less getting paid more is not wrong. They are doing something of more perceived value than I am. You get paid what your employer thinks you are worth. Leave and go somewhere where you are more valued, or work on the problem and become more valued where you are.
Longevity is not seniority, I've worked in places with that mindset, trust me it's not pretty. There were guys at the top of the food chain, I could have out performed twenty-five years ago...
Longevity is not seniority, I've worked in places with that mindset, trust me it's not pretty. There were guys at the top of the food chain, I could have out performed twenty-five years ago...
Once you want to leave, you should go, no matter what. Typically by the time you become aware that you want to leave, it means you should have left sometime ago. We typically wait until the we've become extremely dissatisfied to make a change.
Now of course, if the only reason you wanted to leave was salary, then maybe. However your current employer, if the management there is immature - which is a very common situation, may resent your desire for a higher salary and may feel you have held the company over a barrel to get it. So you should probably not accept the counteroffer.
There can be exceptions to this rule, but they are few and far between.
The top and middle management in many companies really resents an employee who leaves or wants to leave. It would vastly prefer to fire or lay off the employee. More than one HR director I have met was very open about this and said the company wanted to get to the point where they had no voluntary separations (i.e. employees wanting to leave) and had only involuntary ones (i.e. firing or layoffs.)
Now of course, if the only reason you wanted to leave was salary, then maybe. However your current employer, if the management there is immature - which is a very common situation, may resent your desire for a higher salary and may feel you have held the company over a barrel to get it. So you should probably not accept the counteroffer.
There can be exceptions to this rule, but they are few and far between.
The top and middle management in many companies really resents an employee who leaves or wants to leave. It would vastly prefer to fire or lay off the employee. More than one HR director I have met was very open about this and said the company wanted to get to the point where they had no voluntary separations (i.e. employees wanting to leave) and had only involuntary ones (i.e. firing or layoffs.)
I wouldnt agree with this article wholeheartedly. i suppose in certain situations its going to hurt you, but I accepted a counter offer from my current employer years ago and have since grown and taken better positions with the company. Im known as the one that drinks the company kool-aid. As another commenter mentioned, it can definitely be seen as a sign of loyalty.
Obviously, it all depends on the situation and environment, but you cant take what this article says as gospel.
Obviously, it all depends on the situation and environment, but you cant take what this article says as gospel.
Good heavens. In a world where the employee is considered the enemy, and to be got rid of if possible, the idea that accepting a counteroffer makes you look bad is to be frank, sort of silly.
They will get rid of you before or afterwards with just as much remorse, which is to say, no remorse at all.
They will get rid of you before or afterwards with just as much remorse, which is to say, no remorse at all.
Without leverage from another company current employers are not inclined to boost your salary. There is no loyalty out there any more. It's every man for himself, or woman.
You might want to ask yourself why the company you are working for didn't give you the raise before they had to counter, after all what has changed, except now they will have to look for your replacement and process paperwork. Statistically about 80-85% of employees who accept counters are gone within in a year...because as was pointed out they were viewed as a traitor as mentioned or as was also pointed out...things don't change with a salary bump...
The article overstates the obvious, and is attempting to offer advice on a very complex subject in 500 words or less.
As others mentioned, in some companies the only way to get more money is to leave, or threaten to leave.
Of course you have to consider very carefully taking a counteroffer these days -- I'd even go out on a limb and say you have to consider leaving and taking a new job more carefully now than in the past.
The situation is different in each case.
A counteroffer could offer more than just money -- perhaps it involves another position or different duties. Perhaps your notice put the company on notice that others might be unhappy in your departement.
As others mentioned, in some companies the only way to get more money is to leave, or threaten to leave.
Of course you have to consider very carefully taking a counteroffer these days -- I'd even go out on a limb and say you have to consider leaving and taking a new job more carefully now than in the past.
The situation is different in each case.
A counteroffer could offer more than just money -- perhaps it involves another position or different duties. Perhaps your notice put the company on notice that others might be unhappy in your departement.
It's a recipe for animosity. They will expect more out of you and when it becomes convenient, you will be the first to get let go. The fact of the matter is that if they didn't think you were worth the pay increase before, then you can be sure that any counter-offer will be put out there reluctantly.
The only exception for me would be a rather large company where the counter-offer is packaged with a promotion with another division or under a different manager.
The only exception for me would be a rather large company where the counter-offer is packaged with a promotion with another division or under a different manager.
I believe it all depends on the managers/company, some take it little too personally, thats where things going to be sour forever and all of your insight is absolutely applicable. But there are instances where someone is actually an asset to an organization and even though the manager has the full honest intent to do all that he can to retain the resource, he is bind by the pay grade limitations, where situations like these (pre-counteroffer stage) gives an opportunity to raise some eyebrows in higher ranks and get stuff done out of the box.
But again, money isnt something going to keep folks motivated forever.
But again, money isnt something going to keep folks motivated forever.
Left my current employer quite a few years ago while I was still viewed as an underling. No counter offer was presented. Company brought me back 3 times to train my replacement(s) in my ex-job for 1 1/2 the pay I was asking to stay in the first place.
New company tanked after a year and a half. I had too many opportunities to sort through so I never even called my old employer.
They called me with quite an impressive offer. Thirty years later, I am still there and happy.
Moral; DO NOT burn ANY bridges.
New company tanked after a year and a half. I had too many opportunities to sort through so I never even called my old employer.
They called me with quite an impressive offer. Thirty years later, I am still there and happy.
Moral; DO NOT burn ANY bridges.
If you are the employee you are expected to bend over and take it, normally, without so much as a thank you. But if you dare to ask anything of the company or try to better yourself, then you are deemed to be a traitor. The company can cut you at the drop of a hat, but if you dare to ask anything of them you are a trouble maker.
I would never accept a counter offer. I might ask for a raise, and then go looking if it is not forthcoming.
I would never accept a counter offer. I might ask for a raise, and then go looking if it is not forthcoming.
It was an internal post though, to make matters worse politically. Six months later, my current manager who slathered on the praise (and money) had to lay me off. I couldn't even go to the guy with the offer I reneged on because he made his disappointment very clear. I was interviewing because I didn't like what I was doing and ended up staying on because of a high praise snow-job? - very stupid.
Another mistake: Following a boss you like out the door into his new 'opportunity'.
Another mistake: Following a boss you like out the door into his new 'opportunity'.
Being from both sides of this coin, this is extremely simple
Whatever the issue is, whether money or job duties, discuss it with the HMFIC
If it is not resolved, find another job, because that is they are telling you
Whatever the issue is, whether money or job duties, discuss it with the HMFIC
If it is not resolved, find another job, because that is they are telling you
If you consider this simple fact, regardless of where you are within an organization, then the question is simple - do you believe you are getting what you think you are worth?
Only you can answer this question, and yes, we all place different values on the attributes listed in this conversation, but first and foremost, we work for money. EVERYTHING else is secondary to this simple fact.
That said, a few other folks touched on the topic of self improvement. I have discovered the meaning of life. Hmmm, rather full ourself aren't we? Well if that were the end of the statement, then yes, that pre-judgement would be valid. Allow me to explain. As we go through life, one of the easiest ways to self improvement is to teach others how to do what you do. Once this is accomplished, you are free to go and learn new topics and avoid being 'pigeon-holed'. By doing this, we pass on our knowledge to the next generation (and even our current colleagues). If we take this knowledge about our discoveries to the grave with us, then what was the meaning (purpose) of our life? Thus, the meaning of life is to pass on knowledge. Consider all those who have passed before us who have revealed their knowledge, they are now immortalized. While this may sound vain, the feeling of freedom that comes with this philosophy is outstanding.
Who we work for has nothing to do with how we approach our life journey - discuss.
Only you can answer this question, and yes, we all place different values on the attributes listed in this conversation, but first and foremost, we work for money. EVERYTHING else is secondary to this simple fact.
That said, a few other folks touched on the topic of self improvement. I have discovered the meaning of life. Hmmm, rather full ourself aren't we? Well if that were the end of the statement, then yes, that pre-judgement would be valid. Allow me to explain. As we go through life, one of the easiest ways to self improvement is to teach others how to do what you do. Once this is accomplished, you are free to go and learn new topics and avoid being 'pigeon-holed'. By doing this, we pass on our knowledge to the next generation (and even our current colleagues). If we take this knowledge about our discoveries to the grave with us, then what was the meaning (purpose) of our life? Thus, the meaning of life is to pass on knowledge. Consider all those who have passed before us who have revealed their knowledge, they are now immortalized. While this may sound vain, the feeling of freedom that comes with this philosophy is outstanding.
Who we work for has nothing to do with how we approach our life journey - discuss.
This is naive conventional wisdom from the past that is absolutely no longer relevant or correct or useful. And no one any longer believes it other than fools. Where did you get this idea from? No doubt from a corporate recruiter because this is what they have been saying for years to get employees to jump from one company to another. It's a common tactic they use to preempt a candidate from going to the current employer and using the new company's offer as a bargaining chip. Remember, the headhunter only makes money when you jump ship. But that's their problem.
The days of assumed loyalty are over. What's good for the company is now good for the employee. If the company is not loyal to its employees, why should the employees be loyal to the company? How loyal is the company to you if it does not offer competitive wages, benefits, career opportunities or working conditions? Not what was competitive at the time you were hired years ago - what's competitive now. Does your company publish compensation ranges for all positions or pay grades? Probably not. Perhaps it should, perhaps not. Until it does however, how other than finding out what other companies are paying will you find out what you are really worth?
If you leave and they replace you, do you think they will hire your replacement at the same rate they were paying you? No. They'll have to pay today's going rate just like the company you're considering jumping to. So if they're prepared to pay someone else that rate, why shouldn't they pay you?
Your employer may consider you a traitor, but is that the kind of company you want to work for? And just exactly who at your company will consider you a traitor? Your boss? Is that the kind of boss you want to work for? How long has your boss even been on the job? Quite possibly less time than you have. Why? Because they likely jumped to a new position for higher pay themselves and that's how they became your boss in the first place.
When you realize that all employees are in the same boat, including your boss, your boss's boss and the entire HR dept., it's easy to see why bargaining for competitive compensation is business as usual and being perceived as a traitor is a non-issue. They're just as likely to grant you greater respect for having the guts to ask for more with clear evidence of what you're worth. After all, if you can't negotiate on your own behalf, how will you represent the company's interests?
And let's not forget that in today's economy where companies are assumed to be "not hiring", here comes a company that wants to hire you and not only that is willing to pay you more. What is the rational response from your existing employer? "You traitor"? No. How about, "Wow I didn't know he was that valuable. We better figure out how to keep him."
The reality is that getting a better offer from another company today is an opportunity to open some frank discussion with your boss about your job, your role and the contribution you have to make to the company. That can lead to any number of positive outcomes that all include your staying at the company, not being considered a traitor, and achieving greater job satisfaction -- whether or not you get more pay.
The days of assumed loyalty are over. What's good for the company is now good for the employee. If the company is not loyal to its employees, why should the employees be loyal to the company? How loyal is the company to you if it does not offer competitive wages, benefits, career opportunities or working conditions? Not what was competitive at the time you were hired years ago - what's competitive now. Does your company publish compensation ranges for all positions or pay grades? Probably not. Perhaps it should, perhaps not. Until it does however, how other than finding out what other companies are paying will you find out what you are really worth?
If you leave and they replace you, do you think they will hire your replacement at the same rate they were paying you? No. They'll have to pay today's going rate just like the company you're considering jumping to. So if they're prepared to pay someone else that rate, why shouldn't they pay you?
Your employer may consider you a traitor, but is that the kind of company you want to work for? And just exactly who at your company will consider you a traitor? Your boss? Is that the kind of boss you want to work for? How long has your boss even been on the job? Quite possibly less time than you have. Why? Because they likely jumped to a new position for higher pay themselves and that's how they became your boss in the first place.
When you realize that all employees are in the same boat, including your boss, your boss's boss and the entire HR dept., it's easy to see why bargaining for competitive compensation is business as usual and being perceived as a traitor is a non-issue. They're just as likely to grant you greater respect for having the guts to ask for more with clear evidence of what you're worth. After all, if you can't negotiate on your own behalf, how will you represent the company's interests?
And let's not forget that in today's economy where companies are assumed to be "not hiring", here comes a company that wants to hire you and not only that is willing to pay you more. What is the rational response from your existing employer? "You traitor"? No. How about, "Wow I didn't know he was that valuable. We better figure out how to keep him."
The reality is that getting a better offer from another company today is an opportunity to open some frank discussion with your boss about your job, your role and the contribution you have to make to the company. That can lead to any number of positive outcomes that all include your staying at the company, not being considered a traitor, and achieving greater job satisfaction -- whether or not you get more pay.
To accept the point of view you describe, they'd have to accept that they were employees with a management role. Where as we are employees with some other (obviously less valuable
) one. They'd have to accept equivalent values. That they were interchangeable, disposable, out-sourceable parts of a large an unfeeling edifice created to maximise profit.
In general they find that too scary to contemplate.
So you get this sort of delusion slanted to feed their fiction.
Counter-offers, hiring negotiation, some one like me interviewing them at an interview pierce this comforting fantasy.
And they don't like it...
So you are uncomfortably correct.
In general they find that too scary to contemplate.
So you get this sort of delusion slanted to feed their fiction.
Counter-offers, hiring negotiation, some one like me interviewing them at an interview pierce this comforting fantasy.
And they don't like it...
So you are uncomfortably correct.
There's nothing in this article we don't know already or is not common knowledge. Give us some statistics please instead to support the "dangers".
Getting an offer from another organisation can sometimes be the only way of getting your own company to address your needs.
At one of the companies I've worked at a guy approached management, pointed out his increased skills, training and responsibilities and requested a raise. The response was "why would we give you a pay rise, we know you won't leave".
As a consequence he started applying to other companies and when he came back with several offers he finally got the raise he wanted.
This guy didn't want to leave and didn't want to be disloyal to the company but the only way he could get them to take him seriously was to threaten to leave.
It strikes me that whenever a company is talking about loyalty it's always about your loyalty to them, there's rarely an indication that it works in the other direction.
At one of the companies I've worked at a guy approached management, pointed out his increased skills, training and responsibilities and requested a raise. The response was "why would we give you a pay rise, we know you won't leave".
As a consequence he started applying to other companies and when he came back with several offers he finally got the raise he wanted.
This guy didn't want to leave and didn't want to be disloyal to the company but the only way he could get them to take him seriously was to threaten to leave.
It strikes me that whenever a company is talking about loyalty it's always about your loyalty to them, there's rarely an indication that it works in the other direction.
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