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The issues with Certificates and the Surface, has been around for a while. Even Phone 7 had major issues with SBS servers using self signed Certs. I ran into this not only with SBS2003 but SBS2011, and is a major issue with Microsoft basically not supporting itself.
If you run an Exchange server you can avoid this by using trusted certificates. If you are cheap like me and use self-signed certificates then you have to accept that you'll need to do extra work and install a certificate generated by your server on your mobile device. While I do find it occasionally annoying, I only have to do it once and if I use Exchange, then those are the rules for self-signed certificates and I don't have to pay for a trusted one.
*and you are happy with 1366768 pixels on a 10.6-inch screen*
did you find this an issue?
did you find this an issue?
The resolution is similar to netbooks and the screen is bright and clear. My only problem is my aging eyes 
How can it be a Windows PC if it does not run Windows programs? The Pro version will be a Windows PC, but calling current Surfaces "Windows PCs" is bad Microsoft marketing (or a blatant lie, if you prefer).
If people understand better that Surface is Android from 24 months ago that can run Office that you are prohibited to run in all the most likely settings, it would be better for everyone including Microsoft.
I guess any tablet will die of obsolescence in 2 years. If you believe that in a year Surface will get enough apps to be on par with Android, or you are one of those who is determined to make that happen, or you just badly need a cut down mobile office for personal use - buy Surface. If not, either buy iPad or Android or wait for the real thing - Surface Pro.
Any other advice is a disservice for the readers.
P.S. I refuse to call any device a computer if it is impossible to develop for it on it. Thus, Android tablets and Surface Pros are computers, Surfaces and iPads are merely gadgets.
If people understand better that Surface is Android from 24 months ago that can run Office that you are prohibited to run in all the most likely settings, it would be better for everyone including Microsoft.
I guess any tablet will die of obsolescence in 2 years. If you believe that in a year Surface will get enough apps to be on par with Android, or you are one of those who is determined to make that happen, or you just badly need a cut down mobile office for personal use - buy Surface. If not, either buy iPad or Android or wait for the real thing - Surface Pro.
Any other advice is a disservice for the readers.
P.S. I refuse to call any device a computer if it is impossible to develop for it on it. Thus, Android tablets and Surface Pros are computers, Surfaces and iPads are merely gadgets.
It's just a whitelist system of which win32 applications can run or not. The ARM version still has the desktop mode, still has office and IE, you are just not allowed to install anything else.
Yes this is a modern Windows PC using the WinRT runtime on ARM. It does not run legacy apps, but it provides Office, mail, people, IE10 and a variety of other applications. It even has the desktop with the usual Windows applications such as Paint, accessibility and Mary Jo Foley even got her beloved notepad. More importantly, it has a real file system that integrates with my home and business networks and lets me summon files from my network or the cloud.
For most people, it is a Windows PC. As for development, I'm thinking of porting my authoring system to WinRT, the only thing slowing me down is deciding how I convert my UI to the new one, as the development environment is the same old Visual Studio and when I compile it, I can compile it for the Intel Pro version as well. That will then allow me to develop HTML.Javascript applications on the Surface - will that make it a "computer" in your rather strange definition?
This is not a cut down Windows, it's the new Windows and as developers port their legacy applications to the new environment you'll see they perform even faster.
Oh and when my Surface updates (which it did without any problems, it tells me not shut down my PC, not my consumption device
For most people, it is a Windows PC. As for development, I'm thinking of porting my authoring system to WinRT, the only thing slowing me down is deciding how I convert my UI to the new one, as the development environment is the same old Visual Studio and when I compile it, I can compile it for the Intel Pro version as well. That will then allow me to develop HTML.Javascript applications on the Surface - will that make it a "computer" in your rather strange definition?
This is not a cut down Windows, it's the new Windows and as developers port their legacy applications to the new environment you'll see they perform even faster.
Oh and when my Surface updates (which it did without any problems, it tells me not shut down my PC, not my consumption device
version with the pre-loaded cutback version of MS Office that the EULA says is unlawful to be used by a charitable organisation or in ANY commercial or corporate situation or environment, with dire threats if you do. Also, did you know the EULA says in using the Surface you agree to it collecting certain information and sending it all back to Microsoft Headquarters each month and you can NOT turn that function off?
This might be a good toy for checking mail or what's on at the theatres while out at dinner, but no good for doing any real productive work on. Personally I'd rather spend time talking to my date while out at dinner with someone, or reading a book if I'm eating alone.
This might be a good toy for checking mail or what's on at the theatres while out at dinner, but no good for doing any real productive work on. Personally I'd rather spend time talking to my date while out at dinner with someone, or reading a book if I'm eating alone.
I also pointed out it's not a "cutback" or cutdown version of Office except for the macros and a few arcane functions which you may find indispensable, but most of us won't. You can use your commercial office licencing or Office 365 to use your Office commercially, but family students and anyone using it for non-commercial purposes is fine, so I don't really understand your objections.
There are plenty of toys that allow you to check your email and browse and some of them can even use external keyboards and adapters to allow for some awkward productivity, but at the moment, there is only one truly productive tablet and that's the Surface.
Can I also point out that with Surface you can video Skype to your loved one on the other side of the world and read a book at the same time with two apps on the screen
There are plenty of toys that allow you to check your email and browse and some of them can even use external keyboards and adapters to allow for some awkward productivity, but at the moment, there is only one truly productive tablet and that's the Surface.
Can I also point out that with Surface you can video Skype to your loved one on the other side of the world and read a book at the same time with two apps on the screen
if you want to use the version of MSO on the Surface RT you have to purchase a separate commercial MSO licence for it and only it.
As to running two apps at once, I do a heck of a lot of story writing and editing and the office package I use is set for a book size of 6 x 9 inches and to display that only on the screen properly needs a screen with an 18 inch diagonal, so I don't see how you can get two apps properly displayed on the Surface screen unless they're very small.
As to running two apps at once, I do a heck of a lot of story writing and editing and the office package I use is set for a book size of 6 x 9 inches and to display that only on the screen properly needs a screen with an 18 inch diagonal, so I don't see how you can get two apps properly displayed on the Surface screen unless they're very small.
The 2 apps at once gives 2/3 of the screen to the main app and 1/3 to the other. Whether this is appropriate for you is your decision
times it doesn't seem big enough while doing story research.
My point in starting this sub-thread was to make people aware that Microsoft have made a very clear statement that the version of MSO they put on the Surface RT is NOT for commercial use or use by a charitable organisation, that they have the system send information back to them each month (regardless of if you want it to or not) and they make sure you know they intend to sue the hell out of you if you misuse the software by not complying with the above.
The whole aim of the reduced capability of the MSO on the Surface RT is to get you to pay Microsoft more money for an Office 365 licence AFTER having told you they gave you an MSO licence with the system.
Now one point for the students to know is that writing a resume is classed as a commercial activity as it has an intended commercial outcome, getting a job.
I can see the Surface RT and Surface Pro have some uses for many people, for checking mail or the Internet on the move. I can even see the Pro being useful in a logistics organisation for delivery records - but any tablet can do that job and lots can do it better and cheaper. But the Surface RT and Pro are a very, very long way of being beneficial or useful in an enterprise environment due to the great limitations on their productivity capability.
My point in starting this sub-thread was to make people aware that Microsoft have made a very clear statement that the version of MSO they put on the Surface RT is NOT for commercial use or use by a charitable organisation, that they have the system send information back to them each month (regardless of if you want it to or not) and they make sure you know they intend to sue the hell out of you if you misuse the software by not complying with the above.
The whole aim of the reduced capability of the MSO on the Surface RT is to get you to pay Microsoft more money for an Office 365 licence AFTER having told you they gave you an MSO licence with the system.
Now one point for the students to know is that writing a resume is classed as a commercial activity as it has an intended commercial outcome, getting a job.
I can see the Surface RT and Surface Pro have some uses for many people, for checking mail or the Internet on the move. I can even see the Pro being useful in a logistics organisation for delivery records - but any tablet can do that job and lots can do it better and cheaper. But the Surface RT and Pro are a very, very long way of being beneficial or useful in an enterprise environment due to the great limitations on their productivity capability.
Surface RT
Base unit 32 gb $499.99
Type Key board 129.99
Apple I pad w/retina display
Base unit 32 gb $499.99
wireless keyboard 69.99
Also I can get an I pad anywhere, Surface seems to be a MS store exclusive.
This does makes me cringe because I am not a big apple fan, but MS built a tablet that does not beat Apple in price point, with an OS that were still all a bit iffy about, an underdeveloped app store, and because of my location I can't put my hands on one for testing.
Yes this is an innovative design, and honestly. With a good RDP client to my home systems I could see this as my primary interface for work. (btw how is the RDP interface? that was left out of the eval.)
However I am not going to spend the same amount of money I would drop for a solid laptop that can run any an all windows software for the sake of a few pounds or the coolness factor. Especially since I can't put my fingers on one before hand.
I do find it ironic that MS is making the same mistakes with its tablets and Apple made with its Desktops. Overpriced hardware and poor software penetration.
Also missing from this evaluation, how did it interact with other hardware, Scanner, printers, (yes some of us still need to handle paper) Connecting to a NAS, to a home group with other windows machines (I know it cant connect to a domain)
Basically its not robust enough for work, and its too expensive for a toy.
Base unit 32 gb $499.99
Type Key board 129.99
Apple I pad w/retina display
Base unit 32 gb $499.99
wireless keyboard 69.99
Also I can get an I pad anywhere, Surface seems to be a MS store exclusive.
This does makes me cringe because I am not a big apple fan, but MS built a tablet that does not beat Apple in price point, with an OS that were still all a bit iffy about, an underdeveloped app store, and because of my location I can't put my hands on one for testing.
Yes this is an innovative design, and honestly. With a good RDP client to my home systems I could see this as my primary interface for work. (btw how is the RDP interface? that was left out of the eval.)
However I am not going to spend the same amount of money I would drop for a solid laptop that can run any an all windows software for the sake of a few pounds or the coolness factor. Especially since I can't put my fingers on one before hand.
I do find it ironic that MS is making the same mistakes with its tablets and Apple made with its Desktops. Overpriced hardware and poor software penetration.
Also missing from this evaluation, how did it interact with other hardware, Scanner, printers, (yes some of us still need to handle paper) Connecting to a NAS, to a home group with other windows machines (I know it cant connect to a domain)
Basically its not robust enough for work, and its too expensive for a toy.
and you may change your mind and remote desktop works fine.
Don't know where you got your pricing from but Apple and MS Australia give you
$679 for 32GB with Touch cover
$640 for 32GB WiFi iPAd without keyboard
Seems like MS undercuts Apple even with a real cheap WiFi keyboard that won't have a touch pad. Once you add in Office, a real file system and Windows, the Apple is looking like the expensive toy I'm afraid.
Tried printers, USB sticks, mouse etc and all worked fine as RT has basic drivers for most devices. However, I'm pretty sure there may be some older pronters it may not support. What didn't work was my Telstra 4G modem as it doesn't seem to follow the WIndows RT 4G modem guidelines. Not really a problem as I'm upgrading my Windows Phone to 8 and will use the 4G phone as my wifi router (supports up to 5) for cellular conneciton. It also works fine with my existing Windows 7 phone, but is a little slower. And yes it wll connect to a Homegroup.
Don't know where you got your pricing from but Apple and MS Australia give you
$679 for 32GB with Touch cover
$640 for 32GB WiFi iPAd without keyboard
Seems like MS undercuts Apple even with a real cheap WiFi keyboard that won't have a touch pad. Once you add in Office, a real file system and Windows, the Apple is looking like the expensive toy I'm afraid.
Tried printers, USB sticks, mouse etc and all worked fine as RT has basic drivers for most devices. However, I'm pretty sure there may be some older pronters it may not support. What didn't work was my Telstra 4G modem as it doesn't seem to follow the WIndows RT 4G modem guidelines. Not really a problem as I'm upgrading my Windows Phone to 8 and will use the 4G phone as my wifi router (supports up to 5) for cellular conneciton. It also works fine with my existing Windows 7 phone, but is a little slower. And yes it wll connect to a Homegroup.
http://store.apple.com/us/buy/home/shop_ipad/family/ipad
And I stand by my opinion. Want to change it? So me a retailer with a surface I can put my hands on within a hundred miles of Cape Coral FL.
And I stand by my opinion. Want to change it? So me a retailer with a surface I can put my hands on within a hundred miles of Cape Coral FL.
I Googled 'microsoft surface', clicked the 'Shopping' option, and got plenty of on-line results. I then checked the 'In stock nearby' option and Google returned 30 results, all mice and keyboards; no tablets.
This was based on my 'location' of Pittsburgh, PA, which is where the company proxy server is installed. Hardly a small town, but I fed it 'Atlanta, GA' and 'San Francisco, CA' and still only mice and keyboards. Maybe you have to use Bing to find them?
If I were in the market for one of these devices, I wouldn't spend that kind of money sight unseen.
This was based on my 'location' of Pittsburgh, PA, which is where the company proxy server is installed. Hardly a small town, but I fed it 'Atlanta, GA' and 'San Francisco, CA' and still only mice and keyboards. Maybe you have to use Bing to find them?
If I were in the market for one of these devices, I wouldn't spend that kind of money sight unseen.
MS forgot you are suppose to distribute your product, not just build it and put it in a warehouse somewhere.
Too bad too, cause the Surface would do well here if it was in stores. Lots of traveling people here cause everything is very spread out. Online shopping isn't popular here, shipping costs are excessively high. It's so bad, people actually put their packages on buses and have someone pick them up at the station afterwards.
Too bad too, cause the Surface would do well here if it was in stores. Lots of traveling people here cause everything is very spread out. Online shopping isn't popular here, shipping costs are excessively high. It's so bad, people actually put their packages on buses and have someone pick them up at the station afterwards.
I was half expecting to be let down, but wasn't
It really is a great device and after using my mouse and keyboard with windows 8 for so long, it feels really natural and fast
Loved it
It really is a great device and after using my mouse and keyboard with windows 8 for so long, it feels really natural and fast
Loved it
I was able to find two locations near my city...and two locations in one Pittsburgh zip code. Perhaps best to go to the source rather than rely on Google.
http://content.microsoftstore.com/store/store-lookup/allstores?WT.mc_id=MSCOMUSHPsurface_link
http://content.microsoftstore.com/store/store-lookup/allstores?WT.mc_id=MSCOMUSHPsurface_link
they even let you choose the colour of the glass as well as the frame, and style of moulding.
and the pricing I stated is correct here. Perhaps we're paying too much for the iPad
I was able to find two stores not in my town but reasonable driving distance. For the Pittsburgh guy...I found two in one Pittsburgh zip code. I think you have to check out the source for the "brick and mortar" locations and not rely on Google.
http://content.microsoftstore.com/store/store-lookup/allstores?WT.mc_id=MSCOMUSHPsurface_link
http://content.microsoftstore.com/store/store-lookup/allstores?WT.mc_id=MSCOMUSHPsurface_link
Yes, admittedly slim distribution channels at the moment if one wants to get "hands on" before buying.
Not surprising as people can't even find the product.
Agreed, especially going into the Christmas shopping season.
You can buy older model Kindles in Canada, but not the fire. Why? My only theory is that they can't fulfill the demand in the US, so they reserve the production for them. I used to drive by an Amazon Canada warehouse daily.
Retail shopping - it's jsut like the Internet without the convenience
Ordered my two online and they arrived 2 days before the specified date for delivery.
Ordered my two online and they arrived 2 days before the specified date for delivery.
you may be willing to spend that amount of money without ever seeing or testing the device. I'm not, especially a form factor that's completely new to me.
I have bought computers online before but there brands that I have used before and for years. Even if its not the exact model.
This is new and I haven't seen a piece of MS hardware that isn't a keyboard or mouse in years.
So here is the question, this new and innovative technology that has been heavy advertised why isn't in every major electronics chain, and computer store in the United States in time for the holiday buying frenzy?
This is new and I haven't seen a piece of MS hardware that isn't a keyboard or mouse in years.
So here is the question, this new and innovative technology that has been heavy advertised why isn't in every major electronics chain, and computer store in the United States in time for the holiday buying frenzy?
or watch the price go too high for them due to the others adding a profit margin.
I don't give MS credit for much, but they aren't that stupid. Yes, they'll make a smaller profit per unit by going through other retailers, but they'll more than make it up on the volume.
You state:
"People complain about UIs not being intuitive, but no UI is intuitive; its simply learned behaviour."
I beg to differ here. When a 4 year old girl can pick up an iPad and within minutes be happily using it, there has to be a level of intuitiveness in the way the system is designed. In fact, most people that design interfaces, do so with human behaviour (a lot of which is intuitive) in mind. They count on this intuition to allow for fast adaptation.
So, yes, there will always be a level of learned behaviour, but intuitiveness is definitely a big factor.
"People complain about UIs not being intuitive, but no UI is intuitive; its simply learned behaviour."
I beg to differ here. When a 4 year old girl can pick up an iPad and within minutes be happily using it, there has to be a level of intuitiveness in the way the system is designed. In fact, most people that design interfaces, do so with human behaviour (a lot of which is intuitive) in mind. They count on this intuition to allow for fast adaptation.
So, yes, there will always be a level of learned behaviour, but intuitiveness is definitely a big factor.
They barely understand what the keys on their keyboard do. So not intuitive?
Ask around, how many of your users know what widow and orphan control is, and why you would turn this on or off.
This is something I always ask people that claim they "know word".
Ask around, how many of your users know what widow and orphan control is, and why you would turn this on or off.
This is something I always ask people that claim they "know word".
Nice to get a careful, thorough accounting of your experience with the tablets. It makes me ready to get a tablet although I'm running 8 on a laptop already. I read to the end to see if you experienced the same shut off frustration I did on the laptop. There must be a better or shorter way.
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