Discussion on:

You don't really need a Start Menu in Windows 8

to create shortcuts on your desktop, or launch programs

C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs

Right click the taskbar.
Choose Toolbars
Choose New Toolbar
Navigate to C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs
Choose Select Folder
Now you will see "Start Menu >>" on your taskbar.
Click on the ">>" hover on the Programs folder and all of your programs appear.

Administrative Tools, Microsoft Office, Windows Accessories etc. - They're all there. - right from the good ol' taskbar.

Only thing missing is the Icon.

The right side of the start menu is missing, but the [Windows}-X shortcut gives you everything missing and more. If you really hate the Win8 start screen, [Windows] will take you to the Win7-style desktop.

The right side of the start menu is missing but you can recreate it in the taskbar.

But it's just as easy to say

You don't really need Windows 8

Business is unlikely to adopt it in any serious form on the Desktop the only place it will find it's way into Business is through the BYOD where personal Tablets and Phones with 8 installed start to get into the inside of the business. Some Business may even Bar their Introduction because that OS is not compatible with their existing systems.

So in Business at least I can not see any Dramatic Uptake and 8 will remain on the Low Resource Personal Devices where the End Users may actually even like it. 8 As it currently stands is great on Mobile Devices where people have already got used to the Apple Style UI that 8 is but on the desktop it has a fight on it's hands.

Here at least the Wholesalers are offering big Discounts on systems loaded with 8 anything while the 7 Systems sell at the Premium prices.

Col

To give you a little more insight on the Win8 situation, I'll talk a little about the U.S. Air Force. Typically the USAF upgrades to the latest version of Windows immediately. Heck, they were still doing some XP->Vista upgrades when they started the Win7 upgrades; that's how fast they move. They don't wait for SP1 or anything like that. The USAF is heavily in the MS camp for the desktop as is most of the U.S. Govt. (It is the core of what they call their Standard Desktop Configuration [SDC]).

Not so with Win8. There are no plans to upgrade anytime soon. First, some of their core middle ware doesn't work with Win8. Then there is the whole training issue. Training hundreds of thousands of troops is no menial task even for the USAF. When you jump the tracks as far as MS has with Win8, they're finding that even their hardcore clients are not real happy and are considering skipping this one.

That's a little scary. I hope you guys pay attention to the Early Bug Swarm issue, wherein bugs show up shortly after a release.

No plans to upgrade anytime soon? Considering skipping this one? Seems to me that is what many people did with Vista (which we ran quite successfully and productively for 2.5 years before moving to Win7). What did they get with Windows 7 - mostly Vista (tweaked a bit...but we untweak some things... such as strict UAC setting). If they don't get started now, when Win 9 comes out they'll be hurting...or have to move to Linux or Apple and those training and core systems issues. Just sayin....

Good luck convincing the masses of that one.

Is you most certainly do not need a mouse with your Surface RT which will only have 4 or so years of Support and your Win Phone 8.

8 is ideal for those platforms but I see it as next to useless on the Desktop. Or as my Father would say Windows 8 is as useful as Teats on a Bull.

I just don't see 8 being widely adopted on the Desktop as it currently stands but it's an ideal user interface for Mobile Devices.

Col

As my father would say, "Where's the cord on my home phone?!"

And *never* use a USB mouse on my ASUS TF300. It is a lousy method of interfacing with the desktop on that device.

On Windows 8 on a non-touch device though, I do use a mouse. The form of the device is going to determine the best interface and increasingly, that will *not* be a mouse.

Whoever voted me up out of the basement, thanks. I hate driveby downvotes.

If there is something you disagree with, at least have the courtesy to post your view if you're going to neg another comment.

the up vote that is... I agree the drive-by down vote is the work of a scoundrel. I couldn't see anything objectionable in your post.

BTW I do that routinely, up vote posts that aren't given the courtesy of a reply.

There seem to be at least two roving bandsof down-voters in recent months. One patrols the threads looking for anything good being said about Win 8 and marks them down, the other looks for anyone saying anything bad about Win 8.

Personal experience says that the "defenders of Win8" is the larger of the two groups. But neither group is in the habit of actually responding to posts they disagree with and engaging in debate.

Why care about the opinions of people who can't be bothered to express them?

non-positive posts posts on Win 8. have another up to make you feel better.

I get down voted when I show someone how to do something in Windows 8. What is up with that?

that downvote anything favorable about W8. I still say downvoting should require a comment. If you don't comment, your vote isn't recorded. Even a simple 'No text' would at least identify who disagrees with you.

as a comment and I'd also allow it when the message no longer has the 'Reply' button showing. I like to down vote spammers when I flag their messages - this means anyone using the default show setting gets the spam hidden due to the negative vote.

You really have no idea do you

Have you been to the shops lately? Every Windows 7 device is on sale, get out of the house more

It is in the best interest of big box retailers to carry the latest licences, for MANY reasons. SALES also draw customers, those who have been holding off on 7 will now invest. The software licences seem about the same, the hardware they come preinstalled on gets pretty cheap though.
A shop that doesn't carry mainly new products and software does not look like they are on top of technology. Stock movement is also critical, whereas in a boutique style shop, it is less important as the solution provided.

As for Premium price, the higher end machines are still the higher end/premium machines, around here they still mainly boast Win7, but you'd never see anything more than halfway decent in a big box retailer, FutureShop/Best Buy etc..

You really can not understand what you read can you?

Here at least the Wholesalers are offering big Discounts on systems loaded with 8 anything while the 7 Systems sell at the Premium prices.

The operative word here is Wholesalers not Shops there is a very big difference between the two and if you do not understand that there is no hope for you.

OH and the shops here are all stocked with Win 8 Home which is not of any use to any of my clients who would need Professional or Enterprise at the very least so they are not the ones shopping in the Shops they get me to supply what they need as apposed to what is available in the shops today. As most are on Enterprise and that's not available in 8 on anything but Volume License perhaps you could suggest a shop where I could buy a copy?

Col

SO TRUE! All purists can complain all they want. People are now buying Windows 8 machines and some without a touchscreen. That means the Start screen and Windows key will become the "new normal". The worst thing to be is a tech guy who doesn't know how to work the latest OS on the market.

Don't downgrade to 7 from the new system we sold you with 8 because we are not going to provide Drivers or support for the old OS.

We might provide support for the Hardware but you'll first have to prove to us that it is really a Hardware Failure and not the Software that you have installed on it which is the problem.

Now as I used my newspaper to swat a fly that was annoying me this morning I want to know if my iPad is covered for the damage that it got?

Or do I try to wrap my Fish & Chips in the broken thing?

Either way it's not very good for much that the old media was so great for.

Col

They may be able to get away with that in the consumer market, but their corporate customers are going to raise a heck of ruckus if HP tries to force them onto Win 8 when many are still in the process of rolling out 7.

We load whatever we want, and will continue to do so as long as we can get hardware drivers for the desired OS.

I belong to a few MS Office blogs, and I remember when Office 2007 rolled out with its Ribbon menu -- a high percentage of users swore at the moment that they would never upgrade from their dear 2003, and committed to send nastygrams to MS to get the old style menus back. What they failed to see is that these kinds of UI overhaul represent a big investment for MS, and history tells you that they will stick to their guns and Will Not bring the old interface back. Windows 9 will undoubtedly attempt to improve on Windows 8, not 7.
What's the issue with that? Using the Office example again, it's been 6 years since 2007 came out, and 2010 has been out for a couple of years as well, but you still have people on the boards asking how the Ribbon works :-\
Don't get me wrong: I'm on the "hate Metro" bandwagon like many of you, and don't have any intention of upgrading any time soon... but I'm also aware that this is where the future of the most popular (or rather, most installed) OS is going, and it behooves all of us to get on the train, like it or not, so we're not trying to figure out what Windows 9 is all about when it comes out in a few years.
--vic

Everyone here should at least upgrade one of their machines to 8 or get a Surface RT or Pro (when available). Load it up with your real life software and see how it goes. It will be time better spent than crying about the constant forward march of technology in here.

Personally I'd be buying a NB with 8 for my own needs it's cheaper and more powerful not to mention much more storage space.

Col

To the best of my knowledge, The Surface Pro will be the lightest full Win 8 tablet / ultrabook with a real stylus on the market
I have been using Windows tablets daily since "Win XP for Tablets". Do you remember when it was not part of the XP OS?
I'll probably add a generic USB docking station with a large monitor, full size keyboard, mouse, and a large external HD.

The great thing about the PC platform is that you've got all kinds of choices.

You've got a traditional notebook with a 2-5 hour battery life, a large mechanical drive, probably an optical drive, a variety of screen sizes, and touch-screen or traditional input. In a price range between $250 and thousands of dollars.

You've got an Ultrabook with 5-8 hour battery life, an SSD, no optical drive, screen sizes between 11" and 14" typically, and touch-screen or traditional input - in a price range between ~$800-$1800

In the Ultrabook cataegory there are a lot of variables going on right now. Sacrafices and gains. It depends on where your value is on the features and benefits of the device. 64 or 128GB seems very small to me for the cost of the Surface Pro - but as an ULTRA ultrabook - it has a lot of things that really no other device approaches, for a price comparable to a top end iPad. The Surface Pro seems to be an emphasis on the Modern-UI experience and a tablet heavy use-model that *can* support real IA64/32 code. But both the Surfce RT and the Pro are focused on people who want something that is more of a competitor with the Android and iOS tablets, less so with traditional PCs.

I don't think that will be hugely successful starting out, honestly. I think that PC users who want a PC that has some tablet like features will be what drives adoption of Windows 8 and Windows 8 devices. Once Windows 8 gets some momentum, we might see the more tablet-driven devices like the Surfaces gain more traction. I see the Surface devices appealing to executives. The RT to general executives - and the Surface Pro to power-user executives who require a real Windows experience. Maybe. Also, to Microsoft loyalists. Which... fine. Apple has their loyalists, Android has theirs, and Microsoft also has theirs. The same basic kind of guy who buys a iPad Mini is the kind of guy who will buy a Surface RT or Pro.

An occasionally mobile tablet device might fit my needs. As the IT Director, I do end up going to several in-house meetings each day other meeting attendees have come to expect me to look things up and share them at the meeting.
Everything I have used so far has been a bit of a compromise.
I used to bring my Fujitsu tablet convertible. I like having access to all my network resources while in the meeting so that I can settle issues (or perceived issues) on the spot. It's handy but it is a bit bulky. I certainly would not carry it around all day.
I tried using an 7" HTC Flyer for a year. It's easier to carry but not well connected to network resources.
I just bought a Galaxy Note II smartphone (ultra-mini tablet) which handily replaces the Flyer. It's even easier to carry but still not as connected to network resources as I would like. I can remote into a desktop via citrix receiver but once you connect, you only have a 5" screen.
I think the Surface pro would be better than the Fujitsu because it's lighter yet still has the same functionality but I don't see me carrying it around all day. I see myself docking it at my desk until I have a meeting and using the Note II for those impromptu hallway meetings.
I'll keep you posted.

The RT can see networks and shared folders. The Pro is like one's desktop when out of the office. You know, VPN and hardcore apps and stuff. RT is a natural at home because the majority of our personal use falls in that social/web appliance area. But I believe RT has the basics to stand on it's own at most office meetings.

I forgot to mention one thing that all three of my mobile devices have that the RT unfortunately does not. -a stylus.
I handwrite a lot of meeting notes and draw a lot of diagrams so the stylus is a requirement.
I shouldn't have omitted that.
FYI: I know I am still in the honeymoon phase with my Galaxy Note II but so far, the killer feature for me is when you take the stylus out, a notepad screen instantly pops up even if the phone is locked. Way cool & super useful.

It is a little bulkier, a little more Ultrabook and a little less "executive meeting device", and a little more consumer driven as far as having flexibility to be a relatively powerful desktop PC replacement. But I'm not a director... I'm a lowly middle manager... I have time for a leisure life every now and then...

The Surface Pro does strike me as an executive machine. The lower amount of storage and sleeves-up no-nonesense approach speaks to having a strong focus on professional use. The Stylus also seems to be something that appeals to the higher ranks of the corporate totem pole.

I'm sure with OneNote and the ability to insert doodles, sketches, and do quick and accurate handwriting transcription - the Surface Pro will be a formidable machine even in tablet mode, especially for the kind of uses you describe.

and I was not very impressed with their displays and speed.
It's a whole new ballgame since 2008 though so things might have changed.
I remember doing battle with Lenovo's ThinkVantage program which I alternately called ThinkDISadvantage and StinkVantage.

Tried on my laptop with each of the preview releases. I boot into the copy on my desktop about once a week to check for patches and see if they have fixed whatever is causing the constant freeze ups I am experiencing (they haven't) and spend the rest of my time in 7. I did not have any of the constant pauses/freezes during the CP/RTM testing I did, yet the final product does not seem to work. Other than that, while I do like a handful of the improvements, Metro continues to be a piece of crap for non-touch interfaces and my desktop is effectively unusable while I am booted into Windows 8.

Every article I have seen espousing the merits of 8 and the Interface Formerly Known As Metro seems to offer more complicated ways of doing the same things we use the Sart menu for now. I will grant that I do not often go into the Start menu as most of the programs I use regularly are either pinned to the taskbar or have shortcuts on my desktop. However, I have found the Start menu to be much more useful than the IFKAM whenever I have need to use them.

Conclusion - Metro on a touchscreen device fine, it is well suited to them. But return the Start menu for keyboard-and-mouse centric devices.

Heh, all my real life software is on the desktop side! Photshop, jEdit, eclipse, thunderbird, Libre Office, CoolEdit Pro and Steam games. I've got Windows 8 on my main machine (couldn't resist $40 upgrade to 'Pro' version), but after playing with the Metro interface for about a week, I installed Start8 so I could get back to real work (and games!).

It's a good thing no one here has a job forecasting future trends for any major corp or government entity. I mean, YIKES! The workforce is constantly changing as old dogs and their keyboard-centric ways gives way to new pups and their clickity-swippity moves. OfficeRT brings in a whole set of tools that make you wonder if a keyboard is necessary. (It is, but not as much as you think.) Many more programs... er, apps are soon to follow. Because every third party follows the OS maker or they will become the dBase IV of history.

I know many 35 and over still use clicking keyboards and CRTs... and they don't do this ironically (LOL). But the kids in the hall are playing with touchscreens and Kinects. The text will still need to be inputed but everything else can be done without a keyboard. Just because you've practiced those shortcuts for one score and 2 years or more doesn't mean the babies won't just two-finger swipe themselves into your prime cubicle.

I expected more forward thinking from a bunch of techno-geeks. You guys are becoming your fathers (and not in that hero-worshipping way).

I'm well over 35 and use a clicking keyboard but not because I'm nostalgic. It's a new gaming keyboard with programmable and light up keys - the best kind of keyboard to have if you like playing first person shooters.
It also makes a satisfying sound when you are typing.
The CRT is long gone - and not missed.

"I know many 35 and over still use clicking keyboards and CRTs..."

Why spend money replacing hardware that works? If they're not doing it 'ironically' (how does one use a computer ironically?) then they must be satisfied with this hardware. Why should they replace it?

Drove a 1968 Town and Country Squire Woody Station wagon until he passed away in 1987. It worked for him. Good for him.

But in business, there becomes a supportability factor. I've seen one practice that still has an IBM PS/2 doing daily tasks that are practice critical - on Windows 3.11. They've got no alternative when something finally breaks - and the app they are running won't run on anything they'll be able to find today. They're going to have to hit Goodwill and pray when they have a problem.

I agree regarding computer systems. My comments were directed to myangeldust's position that business users choose (or are assigned)different models of peripherals based on the users' age, not on function or need.

There's a crash test video on YouTube between a '59 Chevy and a '09 Chevy. If you were in that '59 car you'd be dead right now. Also poor mileage, slow, difficult to steer, part availability, impractical size, and that smell... What's that smell coming from the back seat?

Old timers talk about how you could drive an old car into a brick wall, and the frame would still be straight, but you drive a new car into a snow bank, and it is totalled.

Those are called crumple zones - and I'd rather have the *car* absorb the energy and be totalled than have it transfer that energy into the occupants inside, who get turned into jello on the unpadded, sharp metal dash or impaled on the non-collapsing steering wheel tree.

By the way, when I was 4 or 5, my grandfather was at a stop light, and I was resting my head on the dash... he creeped forward until he hit the car in front of him at probably less than 5MPH. The impact launched my head back and then down onto the dash, splitting my forehead open. I still have the scar. Of course, seatbelts weren't mandatory and a 5 year old could be in the front seat with no booster back in those glorious days of deadly metal dashboards.

devices and things, the population is getting way out of hand. Haven't you heard about survival of the fittest? We need people who CAN survive being hit in a crumple-zone-free car, or who can drink tap water without being poisoned. The rest of you, can go back to your mommy's womb and not come out.
Think about it, those cars were built TO LAST. People die, anyway, but will you ever see a '53 Chevy made again? No. The crap they build now, is designed to wear out, and be very expensive to maintain: a thousand dollars to replace a heater core? No thank you (2005 Jeep, where you have to take out the steering column, windshield, dashboard, AC system, JUST TO GET TO IT. ) '53 chevy: Unbolt from firewall. Replace heater core. Done. Under $100 even now. Oh and I'm not riding in one of those unsafe little cars you can't even GET INTO without first kneeling on the ground to get into. Hit one with a '53 Chevy, you'll drive away, and leave the silly little car all crumpled up on the sidewalk where it belongs. Fuel mileage, OH BOY we've come a LONG way. '53 Chevy truck 12 mpg. 2012 Chevy truck: 12 mpg. RIIIGHT.
Apparently
CONSUMERISM instead of QUALITY is the new standard. Sell crap you have to replace instead of stuff that lasts. Sure.
Now, give me my start button back.
Thank you!