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I've come from Win3.11/Netware3.1 days throughout the Windows 2000/NT4 and Windows 7 cycles. That's a long time to account for. Steve Jobs had the correct idea about computers and electronic gadgets -- Make them dumb enough and people will use them. I think Microsoft has finally got it? I think they finally figured out that Jobs was right. I've checked out Windows 8 and I think it is just about as dumb as you can get something dumbed down to get the masses to use while being very useful in the world. You don't need a "Start Menu" on any OS of any sort. Smart people like using Command Line OS's when they can and dumb people like using OS's that give them the least amount of "resistance to gratification". Secretaries don't care if they have a Start Menu or not as long as their program comes up when they touch the Icon whether it be by Mouse or Touch Pad or Touch Icons on Monster Glass. Neither do Accountants or Engineers or Lawyers or any other Office position. The only people that bitch about Start Menus are people sitting on their beds in their bedrooms and trying to pretend they have a life. When I ride the bus to work and back I see most people loving their touchscreens or touch pads. Then at work I watch people at work going straight for the Icon on their desktop that takes them directly to their program for work. Very rarely do people at work have time at work to screw around messing with Start Menus and such just for the sake of figuring out whether or not they like Start Menus. Personally -- I like NOT having a Start Menu. I like putting the Icons of the programs that I use -- on my Desktop and try never to have to open any Start Menu. As for Leopard it's still a bit cluttered for me with a lot of unnecessary Icons that I have to change around to what I use. The same goes for Ubuntu's attempt to compete with Leopard. I like the Ubuntu approach the best -- even though Ubuntu is going the same direction that Windows 8 has gone and I think they are both on the correct track. The important thing to make note of is -- does the program that you are using have the extra Icons built into its Internal Menu to do the job that you need to get done without having to leave the program or closing it out? Back in the day when you would have to leave Lotus to go into dBase to export and import data sheets made from to another. In the new versions of Microsoft Office those clumsy ways of doing things went away. When you are working in Adobe you don't have to leave Photoshop to import/export or completely change a photocut - you can do it right there. These are things that are important. Having a Start Menu is NOT important. Having just one Icon on your Monster Glass Screen is all that you need. It can bring up all the programs that you use in Touch Screen Icon fashion and you can get on with your work. If you need to be able to do programming or commandline work then put yourself a icon in your folder so that you can get on with your day. The best computer screen is a "Blank" screen with one Icon waiting for you. Customize your folder with your Icons of Choice and be done with it. Up until Windows 8 I thought Windows 7 was the best OS in the market since computers were first built. If you're a engineer/admin/systems person then you might like UNIX/Linux/BSD and that's fine. You probably don't like Windows anyhow -- but, you like the Commandline anyhow. So I've got nothing to say for you. I am one of you. I think you all would likely agree with me anyhow. Blank screen is best and commandline rules. But, since we are talking Windows 8 here -- I err to the side of Windows 8 and get rid of all these freaking Menus. That goes for Windows/KDE/GNOME together. If we need something then Ubuntu Unity is probably a good idea. You pear it down to just a couple of Icons on the side and make them hidden to boot. Less crap running in my RAM for the purpose of my Desktop is good. Oh -- I must mention getting rid of all the Icons that Microsoft thinks of putting on the Desktop as well. That's a sad issue.