Discussion on:

You don't really need a Start Menu in Windows 8

to kill apps that won't release USB drives, etc.

Surely, it should, shouldn't it?

There are so many things that Microsoft could and should have improved in the Windows 7 interface. Why after all of these years are we still unable to resize dialog boxes that do not show all of the important information they contain. Instead you have to go in, resize fields and scroll around to locate your information. Then when you find what you are looking for you can't see the entire row at once. MSConfig is just one example of many. Is this rocket science or total ignorance on Microsoft's part?

This is just one of many things that could have been fixed without reinventing the wheel. I once thought that a one-size-fits-all aproach was a good idea. Now I realize that this is a bad idea - at least for Windows 8.

I couldn't agree more Astringent! Can anyone explain why this hasn't been adopted?

Different teams work on different things. Sometimes they make a quick app in OS version. Those guys get reassigned to another app or to the new OS version. If they can move that original app into the new OS version, it gets done. If not, they will have the original team fix it. Or, they will assign another guy or team to create the app from scratch. Multiply this by thousands of coders. Then add a new innovation that turns the organization in another direction or multiple directions. Imagine trying to be in charge of any organization that size. Sometimes you have to leave things for later to get the product out. Sometimes you have to dump something altogether. And always know that you can NEVER make EVERYONE happy at the same time.

Yes, why on earth can't the system tell you which app is 'currently using' a drive? Then you could end the process/close the app and be able to eject your drive. Of course, you can always tick the enable 'quick removal' rather than sticking to the better performance option, which forces you to use the safely remove hardware facility

It won't tell you which app, but it will let you close the file.

You can get there quickly from the Start Screen by typing "co" enter "a" enter "co" enter
Or you can go the old way: Click the Desktop Toolbar on the taskbar > Control Panel > Administrative Tools > Computer Management > Shared Folders.
Better still make a Control Panel tile on the Start Screen.

To me, that was one of the big advantages of a mouse-driven menu - I didn't have to remember keystrokes if I didn't want to.

I'm not in the Control Panel often enough to require any form of shortcut in W7. I hope I'm not in it often enough to require one in W8, but I hate that I'm going to have to learn a new method of doing something I already know how to do, having to fight 15 years of Windows habits, and not even gaining anything for the effort.

Since you know in Windows 8 that you can open any file or program from the Start Screen by typing in the some of the letters in the file name on and you know ever since Windows XP that "Shared Folders" is accessed through Control Panel > Adminstrative Tools > Computer Management and you know how to spell "control", you can "walk through" to Shared Folders. Just type "co" and follow the prompts.
Control Panel > Adminstrative Tools > Computer Management = Co (enter) A (enter) Co (enter)

Besides, your way still works.

Control Panel locations and presentation and MMCs have changed *radically* several times over the evolution of Windows. It was different in Win 3.11, it changed again in NT4, it changed again in Windows 95/98, then again in W2k and XP...

It is one of the most common prizes Microsoft seems to tweek and hide and redo. My first time with a Lenovo Yoga 13 at Best Buy, I wanted to see if it still did "Windows Experience". It took me some searching in all the usual places before I figured out one of at least SEVERAL ways to get into that screen.

I hate it EVERY time Microsoft moves this stuff and I have to go looking for it. Then I find it, and after awhile with the new OS I can't remember what it was ever like before and I'm irate when they move it once again.

This is not a Windows *8* problem.

That's why I'm STILL automatically looking for 'Add / Remove Programs', instead of 'Program whatever it's called in W7'. Old habits die hard. Heck, it takes me four to six weeks to get a replaced password out of 'muscle memory' and those are habit that are only six months old.

And do either of you use the 'new' style Control Panel introduced in Vista? Tell me you don't switch to the old icon view the first time you open it on a system; I dare you.

Heck no!
And guess what, the old style large and small icon views are still available in Windows 8.

Why don't you use the new style? MS obviously thinks it is a better way to access those utilities, and yet you insist on using the old, outdated method.

How is that any different from my wanting to continue to use the Start Menu exactly as it was?

The constant reshuffling of where the system meets the the UI is just 'make-work' for techies and educators, a MS jobs program!

Whilst teaching an A+ course I was showing the 'evolution' of various things, those little tweak zones that inexplicably change places and get renamed something unintuitive... and complaining about it. (me to class: "sorry, but you do have to learn all this stuff")

A student rightly knocked me off my pedestal: pointing out it was these changes, and we techs' knowing the new 'secret handshake' to get to various features, that made work for us all, and for educators teaching MS courses like word, excel etc.

Dang easy work at that. In the shop you hear techs telling customers "you pay me for my knowledge," which often amounts to knowing *where* Microsoft hid *what* this time around.

You just have to know how to put it's features back.
So here goes:
Put the following things on your Desktop taskbar
Programs: add C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu
Search, Libraries, Documents Pictures, Music: add File Explorer
Shutdown etc: add a shortcut to c:\windows\system 32\Shutdown.exe & add the shutdown switches to Shutdown, Hibernate, Log off, Sleep and Restart
Recent: C:\Users\UserAccount\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Recent
Your favorite programs: Pin them
Help and Support: Pin Help and Support to the taskbar

I guess I could sympathize if the functionality was no longer available (For example, if you had to use the Charms menu to shutdown.) but the same Win 7 exe file name is still there in Win 8 if you want it.
Personally, I don't want it.

to Programs and Features but it is still in Control Panel and if you don't want to read the forty or so icons there, there is a search box in Control Panel.
If you type "Add Rem" or "Programs" or "Remove", or "Uninstall" you will jump to it.
Incidentally, if you type Uninstall and click the settings icon on the desktop, all of the various ways to get there will appear. - just sayin'

Clicking the Start button to shut down.
I'm not saying that Charms > Settings is any better.

PGit - You're right. These changes, they determine who keeps working in information technology, and who decides to retire or become a laborer along side their long-haired neighbor from their apartment complex.

I did go back to the old style control panel for a long time, and still do occasionally. But more and more frequently, after repeated visits, I just use the default view and it works transparently for me, possibly even "better", now that I've learned the new habit. Which is why they make it a pain to go back to the old way. As they move forward, SP by SP, version by version, eventually that old way gets depreciated. They do that through ALL of their platforms.

"Here, you can do this the way you USED to in Exchange/SQL/Windows/Office/SharePoint/whatever... but you've got to go through some hoops to get that to work. Eventually, you'll stop bothering with the hoops and learn the new way... and a version or two down the road, the new way will be all that is left. Can't deal with that? Here is your orange vest and hard-hat, the deconstruction crew is busy tearing down walls in the south wing..."

I mean... everyone is right... this is the scab, and I picked it off with this comment. This is Windows evolving, and it does it gradually and in leaps and bounds, and has since the start. So has every other OS... But a lot of controversial changes end up being wildly popular once they're accepted. Ed Bott has been highlighting this for the last couple of months on ZD Net, and he is right.

This is a pretty radical change. It *could* go badly... but from what I've seen using the platform myself... I don't think it will. People will get it, and there is a lot to love about it.

Why does Ubuntu move on to newer versions and never fix broken things in previous versions, like the SAMBA issues that exist previous to version 10?

Because the fix *IS* moving to the latest version.

The same thing that Microsoft is doing with Windows 8.

They haven't been fixed since 1995.

Also, Ubuntu does fix glitches, Windows leaves them behind.

What legacy issues from Windows 95 are still not addressed in Windows 8.

This ought to be interesting.

...for one thing. I'd thought that would be fixed by about now.

Why did I get a down vote for that? Haven't you guys ever heard of the Smothers Brothers?

I thought it was a great reference right out of nowhere. Probably someone who didn't vote for Pat Paulsen.

Blue screens for driver failures, why not just reload the driver?

Lockups and freezing during IO activity, why is "System" attached to explorer, Windows grinds down if you are using lots of IO, even if it is just a flash drive.

File Fragmentation, seriously?

I'll give you a hearty "amen" to that one. Of course "compatibility" is the unmovable object keeping MS locked into NTFS.

You can add file permissions to that particular bone of contention.

You've seen this, Heck... even in Windows 7?

I'm looking for documented examples, not anecdotal experience.

If I open a folder with huge number of files in it, Ubuntu is brought to its knees. The i/o and screen update are just too much for the system to handle. I still get kernel panics. SAMBA is broken more often than it works, and still delivers inferior performance to both OS X and Windows 7/8 for CIFS/SMB transfers.

We can match anecdotal experience about these platforms all day - but the trick is, I'm talking about Ubuntu 10 and Windows 8, just like I've got the feeling you're talking about the latest Linux distros and comparing them to Windows XP.

Why is the IO thread attached to the UI thread?

I'm a system admin, not an OS programmer or hardware interrupt expert. Maybe there is a physical reason in IA instruction sets? Maybe it is just sloppy or lazy code? Maybe they'll fix it in Windows 9. It seems like iOS and Android do the same thing. You get intensive file I/O going on and the system slows. Download a bunch of updates on Android and tell me you don't notice it. Seems like this is more a complaint about personal computers than about Windows 8.

Every car gets crap gas mileage, are you implying we shouldn't complain about it?

If we did that, those companies would have no incentive to fix it.

I haven't seen a BSOD in years, and the last one I saw was due to bad RAM.

Yeah, you've got a point on fragmentation. MS has been promising a new file system since before XP. But how much of a problem is it with today's hard drive sizes and autoscheduled defragging?

Auto schedules defrags helps, but MS removed that ability after Windows 98. Since then, you have to build it manually into scheduled tasks.

W7 defrags automatically by default out of the box. I'm not sure about Vista, but I think it did too.

Why is my Win7 drive always so fragmented and require a manual defrag?

Can you find something describing the auto defragging of Win7?

Right-click the drive letter, Properties, Tools tab, 'Defragment Now...' button (don't worry, it doesn't really mean 'Now'), 'Configure Schedule' button. The system I'm at shows 'Scheduled defrag turned on; 1:00 AM Wednesday;, which I recall is the default time. Maybe your schedule has been turned off, or (more likely) your system isn't on at that time.

EDITED - I just checked my Vista system at home, and it too has an automatic defragging feature. It's set for 1:00 AM Wednesdays, so I assume that's the default.

I'll set that up on my home machine.

In Windows 98 it was a slightly more intuitive. But still required you to know to look for it.
http://www.pdxtc.com/200002-win98basicplan.htm

Win7. Blue screen right out of the box. Driver issues. This thing was built FOR win7. OK. Install Office 2012 BSOD, repeatedly. Wait, isn't this supposed to be compatable? NOPE.
Crapware. Right out of the box.
Libraries: a NEW WAY to lose what you thought you saved. Great idea. (NOT)
Search box: never finds anything I'm looking for when I type in it. It's there, search just can't find it. Unintuitive. Give me scrolling, or expandable menus and I'll find it in a hearbeat.
Win7's Explorer. Sure, make it hard to read, the + marks aren't obvious, you click something to open it and something entirely different shows on the right pane. Check. Improvement. (NOT)
Win8. Have 3 windows open. Have to go to some damn start screen to find NOTHING I NEED, when I could previously just click "start" then programs, accessories, calculator. No need to type anything, no need to make your windows you're working in be eclipsed. Improvement? (NOT)
Sorry, I don't think XP was much improvement over Windows 2000, either, but at least you could set XP to classic mode, and keep on working. No need for radical changes. I want changes, I'll make them myself, thank you. Programs on a floating toolbar on the left, file system on a floating toolbar on the right. (AS I HAVE DONE FOR THE LAST 10 YEARS.)

If it blue-screened right out of the box, why didn't you take / send it back? Why would you bother trying to install Office on a system you knew had problems?

dcolbert said ' MS brought out Win 8 to 'fix' things that were broken in the previous release ie Win 7' But what precisely is broken in Win 7? Personally I find Win 7 a HUGE improvement over 98, XP and Vista! In fact, I loved it as soon as I started using it and would never go back to XP or Vista.

Or through code at all?

It was so easy before, add shortcuts to "shell:start menu" in the programs folder.

Looks like gnome 3 has looked for a few years now. KDE has all these alternate launch options as well, though most are not among typical default settings.

As for taskbar auto hide, how many times does your cursor stray down to the bottom, making the bar pop up and get in the way of what you were actually going for? Never liked the option myself. Same with screen edge "snap." (which BTW is a KDE default... but easy enough to kill)

BTW, anyone else not getting the "your alerts from tech republic" emails? (again)

I just thought no one was discussing anything on TR anymore! I canceled all my ZDNet alerts - I've had it with them!

I canceled zdnet alerts recently, too. Just doesn't seem any fun without the few characters that made it fun and familiar, eg LD, Foghorn Leghorn and most of all BALTHOR. Without humor, what else is there on zdnet?

I hope this place starts alerting of new posts again soon. This broke before and it apparently took some serious IT skills to fix it.

The majority of forum posts are personal attacks. There are very few helpful posts.
I can't blame the posters completely. Some of the blame has to go to the bloggers with their misleading click bait topic titles.

They ought to charge to view his posts.

I often wonder if they are one in the same and he just likes to argue with himself.