Discussion on:

Tech workers back need for more women in IT but oppose quotas

I think you'd get the same results if you ran this survey for US IT workers as well.

Gender equality is important, but I think people often go about it the wrong way. Do some companies have glass ceilings and/or a sexist bias in their hiring? Certainly, and we should work to eliminate that kind of backwards thinking. But the lack of women doesn't actually indicate those things - correlation does not imply causation, after all. We don't have a lot of women in our IT organization or in our company's executive team, but I know for a fact that it's not discrimination; it's that few women apply for the job. Imposing quotas, and other such affirmative action programs, are not the solution. They are in and of themselves unfair - they assume that everyone is doing it wrong and needs to be scolded.

Whenever there are quotas based on anything but ability, you sacrifice quality for equality. In addition to possibly bringing in less proficient staff, there may be a resentment among the others that feel the bar was set lower for someone due to an attribute they cannot change themselves. This will increase resistance by peers to accept a person hired under a quota and set them up for failure.

Force em to watch big bang theory?

Hak5 may be a good recruiting tool. There is a lady on there that is feminine, but also tech savy. It's pretty good content too if the one episode I watched is representative of the whole series.

Bill

Get them away from the notion that Facebook and Twitter are 'technology' and 'geeky.' Get back to teaching basic computers as it being a tool, not a toy. Teach how a computer works - at a basic level. In my beginning class, I brought in a box of parts and a case and 'built' a computer. Purpose? Show them there was nothing inside that would eat them! They loved it.

I had students enter my class with their back to the wall .. sliding across, too afraid to sit at a computer. I encouraged them from the word 'go,' and when the class was done, they came back, enthusiastically, for more.

I'll never forget one high school student - female - who took my basic classes and then followed me all the way thru my Office classes. We talked one day and she said she used computers all the time for classes. Why then, I asked, was she taking my classes? She said they were only taught how to *produce* something, step-by-step like a robot: a Word document, a PowerPoint presentation, but were never taught HOW the programs worked. That is what she wanted to know - how the program worked and how to best apply it 'out of the box.' Think. Produce. She had a real interest in technology and I encouraged her to follow it.

So .. there is a whole world of potential out there in education, but I don't see it being developed. Handing a child an iPad so s/he can stab a finger at a screen and swipe things is neither education nor technology. It's a lost potential.

I have three teenage children. They each have a home PC. They also each have had 'state mandated school laptops' since the 6th grade. They can word process and make 'keynotes'. They can create videos. They have absolutely no idea how a computer works. They do not know the difference between hardware and software. They can barely install a game (unless it's on steam).

According to the school this is as designed. They are only supposed to know how to 'produce'.. not how it works. I hear from people all over the web telling me that the new millennials have no need for 'tech support' because they are so 'computer savvy'. Really? I don't see it. Only one of my kids friends has any interest in actually figuring out how a computer works. I offered to show him as I always have junk around to tech with.. but his mother freaked out because she felt if he knew more then he'd 'mess' with their home pc.

I gave my 12 yo daughter a Raspberry pi that I had set up and now she can't let go. Deliberately I haven't connected it to the net yet but with MIT Scratch alone it's keeping her occupied for hours and hours. The XBOX 360, Wii and the PSP were a complete waste of money compared to that cheap little box. The good thing about the Raspberry pi is that you can just wipe it and start over every now and again.

@Slayer: I am afraid that being a nerd is like being bi or gay or straight - I honestly think we are born that way and yes - I am a girl-nerd who is bombarded with job offers in IT. I always thought it was because it was in the STEM fields. I didn't realize it was also because I am a nerd chick! Also, there have to be nerd girls out there otherwise were would all the little nerds come from?? Actually one of my fellow geek girlfriends created a new label for all of us: Nerks which is a combination of nerd and geek. I am definitely a Nerk!

...how many engineers are married to nurses? I'm married to a (slightly geeky) nurse and we're currently filling our house with little geeklets. So maybe that's where geeks come from.

because they like the uniform. I could think of many other nice things but they aren't suitable for innocent minds. When I was an engineering student the local nursing school was like a honey pot for us. We also had a lot of fun at the local pharmacy school. Ah! good times indeed. Though I am sure your wife put you on the right path.

Once inherited, it takes over.

skills and experience just so the company can quickly meet their quota. This often means the people are not in positions that have low levels of responsibility and are not really considered for promotion to more demanding jobs due to the perceptions of them having got their job solely due to the quota.

Much better to use a scheme like the apprentice system where the people supporting the employment pay a part of the wage for a few months or the company a bonus after 6 months. Maybe the BCSWomen should establish an IT employment agency and offer a big discount on their fees if the company hires a woman. At least that would ensure the women hired are seen as real professionals and able to do the job properly.

You are entirely correct.

and get it aired to encourage women and girls to enter the IT field. The first women in the IT field were hired due to their capabilities, as were the first men, so that should be emphasised and not quotes. Oh who should the mini series be on, only the mother of IT - Rear Admiral Grace Murray Hopper

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Admiral_Grace_Hopper

The majority of IT professionals in the UK are blithering idiots.
They don't "need" more women in I.T.
They need more qualified people in I.T.
They would like to see more qualified women in I.T. from a purely balanced social demographic standpoint; but they certainly don't "need" any particular gender.

Just makes sense. Don't lower bar. Poisoning the environment for everyone.

I would be offended if I were hired for an IT position just because I'm female. Employers should hire the most qualified individual for the job regardless of gender or race.