Discussion on:

Add a self-made Start button to the Windows 8 desktop

but searching Dell.com for 'Windows 7' lists 73 models of laptop and 40 models of desktop. Expanding either of those categories does reveals a number of mistaken hits, not many.

You'll need to remove the spaces around 'DELL' in the URL.

http://search. dell .com/results.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=gen&cat=prod&k=windows+7&rpp=12&p=1&subcat=sys%2fdesktops&rf=all&nk=f&sort=K&ira=False&~srd=False&ipsys=False&advsrch=False&~ck=anav

their on-line store with Win 7, but none of the local stores around my area can place an order with Dell for a system with Win 7, when they ring up they get told - "Sorry, can only ship Win 8 now." Most basic users don't buy on line, they go to the local bricks and mortar store to see what's available - and that where I said most users can't buy new Win 7 systems now - I apologise if I was not clear enough on that.

BTW at one time Dell Aust were not selling any Win 7 systems on line, but are again at the moment, but not the full range.

Apparently we have different definitions of the word 'few'. I might use it to describe 100 individual units, but not over 100 different models. And I didn't even check the 'scratch and dent' outlet, and gods know there are plenty of other vendors besides Dell.

I don't know why you're hung up on demonstrating MS doesn't show W7 on its 'Windows' home page. Would you go to a new car dealer if you wanted to buy last year's model?

Just because MS doesn't display it on their 'Windows' page doesn't mean you can't buy it elsewhere. I Googled 'Windows 7' and clicked the 'Shopping' link. i found Home Premium for less than $100 US from several reputable dealers. Some were brick and mortar chains. While I doubt they have it on the shelves, you can often place a special order online and have it delivered to a local store (often at no additional charge).

I'm with you on most of your complaints with W8; I have many of the same ones. W7 probably won't be available for long, only while dealers are clearing out their inventory. No, vendors won't be building any more W7 systems. But W7 -is- still -currently- available for sale, both pre-installed and as media. I'll agree that how long is anyone's guess.

that any user can go out and just get Win 7 instead of Win 8 if they don't like Win 8 - I've being pointing out it isn't like that at all. For some of us with the contact and the knowledge to go beyond the average shopping system we can do it, hell, I even know where I can still buy unopened packs of Win XP SP3.

Buying Win 7 now is not something any user can do by just going down the local store. They have to find someone with old stocks to do so, and they aren't evenly spread or available everywhere. Also, what's available in the USA is not representative of what's available around the world, either.

However, a large part of my contrariness on this is the blas attitude and claims of some people in saying "Don't like Win 8, don't complain, just go back to using Win 7." That attitude shows they think everyone just goes and gets the latest version of Windows as they come out, when the truth is many will be skipping a lot due to them working a system to death before buying a replacement. The condescending twits can get stuffed.

And if they want to keep repeating something not true in the hopes people will believe it, I'll keep countering their claims.

Can you point me in the direction of MS DOS 6.1? I want to play Tanks again and the stupid game won't run right in DR DOS or FreeDOS, I thought I already had it, but Disk 2 is corrupted, dang it!

And 3.5, not 5.25! C'mon by at your convenience!

Or at the Switch?

See you Monday morning!

but I can go to several local computer stores with very knowledgeable and helpful sales staff and purchase laptops and desktops with Windows 7 pre-installed.
A quick look at Micro Center online (a very popular retail chain in my area) indicates that there are 16 laptop and 35 desktop models available with Windows 7 pre-installed. They carry models from all of the popular manufacturers (Dell, Asus, Acer, Toshiba, Samsung, and HP). That's not counting the refurbished models.
You can also purchase 4 different versions of Windows 7 there.
The sales staff are very knowledgeable and very helpful. They have to be knowledgeable, their store is located next to MIT.
They are well versed in Linux and Apple OS and iOS as well.
I feel confident that anyone who walked in that store would get a computer that met their needs.
There's a local "Mom & Pop" computer store less than a mile from my house that will sell Windows 7 and custom build a desktop with Windows 7 for you too.
The Big Box stores are usually not as helpful or knowledgeable. My guess is that they wouldn't have many Windows 7 machines in stock.
All that aside, I bet if you ask anyone contributing to this discussion if they have ever been approached for computer purchasing advice, you will hear a resounding, "YES!".
I married into a HUGE family and I am officially the "all things electronic" resource. They ALL come to me when they need computer advice. and don't get me started about my mother volunteering my computer services at her retirement home!
The bottom line is Windows 7 and Windows 7 machines are still available online, and at retail stores and most people know some guy like me who enjoys helping them with their computer questions.
I don't know how long Windows 7 will be available but it certainly is still available now in large quantities.
Maybe that's different where you are.(?)

but let me get there and check. I'm pretty sure I've got it, but I've been mistaken before. I'll peer mail you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69RllXjCL6o (don't forget to hit the closed captions button) and yes it could have done with being started about 2 minutes in..

And they say that elderly people are not adaptable! I am 66 and I like windows 8. I'll admit to a bit of cursing for the first couple of days but it was a lot easier to get used to than Windows 95. I didn't hold up my hands in shock and disbelief but installed Windows 8 on both a tablet and a desktop. I wouldn't go back to Windows 7 now and neither would my Daughter or my Wife.

Imagine all the other seniors who've never owned a PC until now. They're first interface will be Windows 8 and they won't have much or any experience with older versions of Windows. In fact they might encounter an older PC and wonder how to work it. "Where's the big buttons? I don't see this Start button you speak of - I don't see Start anywhere on the screen!"

thanks for a very well documented alternative.

Another well documented alternative: install Windows 7.

copies left over in shops.

Anyways, few are the requests for Windows 7 installations and downgrades. The mainstream public will gladly purchase Windows 8 computers and devices. Some might move to MacOS (which doesn't have a Start Menu either) but these will be few and far between because it's even less open than Windows and is more expensive. You're the worst debater.

nt

You can still buy Windows 7 directly from Microsoft. Go there. Check it out.

here's how I checked

www.microsoft. com - - click on the hot link 'Store' -- click on the hot link 'Windows'

and you get a full page ad about Win 8 with a line 'Like Windows 7 only better' with all the prices.

Hover over the hot link on the left that says 'Windows' and you get the choice of two links "Windows 8' or 'Windows 8 Pro' - nowhere in the store is there Windows 7 available for sale or download.

I'm outa here

nt

Seldom executed.

NT

here's how I checked

www.microsoft. com - - click on the hot link 'Store' -- click on the hot link 'Windows'

and you get a full page ad about Win 8 with a line 'Like Windows 7 only better' with all the prices.

Hover over the hot link on the left that says 'Windows' and you get the choice of two links "Windows 8' or 'Windows 8 Pro' - nowhere in the store is there Windows 7 available for sale or download.

Funny.

Many of my customers have never pressed [Start] in their lives, yet they join the chorus bemoaning its passing. Everything they ever do must be a Desktop Shortcut.

Others keep the desktop relatively clean and use [Start] often, selecting a 'recent ap' from the left column, or [Start]-[All Programs] for most everything else.

Still others, including me, use [Start]-[Run] for just about everything.

Windows 8 runs exactly the same if you just adopt the mindset that the tiles display _IS_ the start button, with the following minor differences:

- It starts out open
- It takes up the whole screen

You right-click it to get All-Apps, which is [Start]-[All Programs]. You click where [Start] used to be to get the desktop. You right-click there to get most everything else. Click the opposite corner to bring up a new, useful flyout, containing a Magnifying Glass that does what Greg just wrote up.

Microsoft should have had a 30-second auto-tutorial for this (like the old WinXP startup tour) but you should spend a lot less time figuring out Win-8 then you originally spent getting your iPad or Droid the way you wanted it.

The things you use most often (the left column of [Start]) should be tiles. [Start]-[All-Programs] is Right-cick, then All-Apps. The Desktop is there for your desktop junkies to access their stuff. The missing [Start] button is right where it used to be, it's just invisible. Greg has a nice drill-down into some interesting things, but those who can't do 'Lower-Right, Magnifying Glass' really shouldn't be using a computer.

There's a philosophy in here someplace. Microsoft's long-term 'Contempt for Customers' and 'Complicated Solutions to Simple Problems' business model have created a world full of people who use the products but hate the company. Win-8 came out to universal panning because those who write these reviews were pre-disposed to pan it.

Win-8 is fast and clean. It really is a nice product if you give it a unbiased chance. It's main failing is the lack of a 30-second auto-tour.

"You click where [Start] used to be to get the desktop."

I missed that shortcut, but then I've missed plenty of other things.

Mind you, that doesn't mean I don't still want my Start menu back.

I'll spend a lot more time figuring W8 out than an iPad or Droid, because I never had an iPad or Droid. One of the issues I see with W8 adoption is it assumes all previous users of Windows have experience with this class of devices.

I agree wholeheartedly about the lack of an introductory tour, especially a 'W8 for XP / W7 Users' guide.

Had Windows 8 live tiles been released in Windows 95 it would a different story right now. Anyone hinting at an unlabeled button in the lower lefthand corner as a method of accessing applications would've been crucified. Ubuntu doesn't have a Start button and neither does MacOS. "Predisposed" is the best way to describe this brouhaha.

the Windows Search function works for something! It sure as hell isn't worth a flip to find files any more. When search reveals no files within the searched criteria, it may or may not be so. In my experience, I don't usually search for things of which I know their location.

Oh, and isn't it wonderful that you know the Windows keyboard combination to pull up that function? MS isn't happy about anyone else knowing it. Just as is the case with the file extension and its purpose. The list goes on and on.

Windows 7 and Windows 8 are 2 different products for 2 different uses. If you don't like the way windows 8 functions, then stick with 7. Windows 7 will be around for a long time (look at XP). If you don't plan to use touch, stick with windows 7.

retailers can't get new copies and some of the OEM hardware companies are no longer supplying systems with Win 7.

Irrelevant. OEM companies have full license to produce new copies on their own. All they get from Microsoft are product keys and serials. The tangible discs can be done by OEM... that's for those who can't simply get them on thumbdrives or download them as ISO files. Weak, dude. My kung fu is better than yours.

Not all computer users are techies who know these things. And not all computer users know somebody they can ask about these things. What about Joe XP user who had to buy a new home PC because the old one died? All he's ever done is browse the web, check email, and order stuff from Sears and Penneys. He doesn't keep up with tech, but he knows there's a Windows 7 because his neighbor has it on his PC, so he's expecting a change. What he doesn't expect is Windows 8, and he hates it because he can't find anything. He can't get rid of all those boxes on the screen, he can't find the Start button, and he hasn't been able to check his email in a month. Not even his neighbor with Windows 7 can help him.

This user doesn't know how to work with ISOs and thumbdrives. He doesn't know about OS downgrade requests. What he knows is he just spent hundreds on a new PC that he can't figure out how to use and doesn't want to spend hundreds more to learn how to use it. And this is the vast majority of computer user (in the US, at least) today.

"Old man, how is it that you can hear the grasshopper?"

"Young man, how is it that you cannot?"

Thanks.

Time for you to leave.
Remember always... That a wise man always walks with is head bowed. Humbled... like the dust.

classic

"Now you try three out of five!"

From the MAD magazine version.

A regular XP user goes out the buy a new computer. He doesn't want Windows 8 so he asks for Windows 7 installed. If the PC is from a major manufacturer than can downgrade his PC to Windows 7 via a DVD or via online. No knowledge of thumbdrives or ISOs needed because that PC maker will get him an OEM DVD that they've produced internally thanks to a licensing agreement with Microsoft.

The customers at Best Buy by my house are getting Windows 8 PCs so this regular XP user must be in the minority. Even if one or two ask for a Windows 7 downgrade. You know better, NickNielsen. You're the moderator, not the instigator.

Wow, I think I referenced American Pie or Pulp Fiction. But it looks like you guys just went down memory lane, someplace ancient.

In the USA, he's probably going to a box store like Best Buy. And Best Buy won't do an OS downgrade. That's why the customers at Best Buy by your house are getting Windows 8 PCs.

Yep, we went down memory lane. That's because we're old enough to have memories of something more than bottles and blankies...

better get your nose out of that angel dust!

You can buy it directly from Microsoft online.
You can buy it from Amazon.com and other vendors.
You can buy it at the store.

It is extremely difficult for someone in a coma to buy a copy but I suspect they would have no use for it.

You've told him repeatedly, just as he's repeated his same position to m.a.d., who keeps repeating his ageist posturing; and as I've done myself on this subject. Do you really want to be in the same boat with us?

Stop beating your head on the wall; it feels so good when you quit.

misinformation.

There's already enough misinformation about Windows 8.

via the front door

www.microsoft. com - - click on the hot link 'Store' -- click on the hot link 'Windows'

and you get a full page ad about Win 8 with a line 'Like Windows 7 only better' with all the prices.

Hover over the hot link on the left that says 'Windows' and you get the choice of two links "Windows 8' or 'Windows 8 Pro' - nowhere in the store is there Windows 7 available for sale or download.

No, there's no direct link.

But if you enter "Windows 7" in the search box at the upper right, then sort the results by relevance, Win 7 Ultimate, Pro, & Home Premium are the first three results.

http://www.microsoftstore. com/store/msstore/en_US/list/size.48/ThemeID.27509700/ceid.194394100/keywords.Windows%207/categoryID.38336300/defaultKeyword.Search/sort.relevance/order.up

Dude, you just lied to JJFitz. Not cool, dude! Not cool.

He's not seeing the same Microsoft pages we are as he's not in the US.